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#3300176 - 06/14/22 01:09 PM Re: A Call to Arms: Teachers in Conservative States Are Volunteering to Carry Guns [Re: pyscodog]
catmech Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 72
Loc: oklahoma
Sure why not that's about 3 times what you need to get a concealed carry permit here.How many hours do you think they need and what should it cover?

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#3300179 - 06/14/22 02:34 PM Re: A Call to Arms: Teachers in Conservative States Are Volunteering to Carry Guns [Re: catmech]
spotstalkshoot Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 2763
Loc: so.mn
I don't think number of hours of training equal ability. What's needed is the desire to do something that will counter the lefts intentionally not prosecuting criminals and ignoring the mentally ill. Until current laws are fully enforced and the mentally ill are "off the streets" crime in general will rise AND any new laws will only penalize law abiding citizens and weaken the constitution. Poor economies also spur criminal activities, and Joe is definitely ruining the U.S. economy.

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#3300192 - 06/14/22 05:15 PM Re: A Call to Arms: Teachers in Conservative States Are Volunteering to Carry Guns [Re: spotstalkshoot]
Foxpro.223 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 07/30/15
Posts: 1651
Loc: WY
Originally Posted By: spotstalkshoot
I don't think number of hours of training equal ability. What's needed is the desire to do something that will counter the lefts intentionally not prosecuting criminals and ignoring the mentally ill. Until current laws are fully enforced and the mentally ill are "off the streets" crime in general will rise AND any new laws will only penalize law abiding citizens and weaken the constitution. Poor economies also spur criminal activities, and Joe is definitely ruining the U.S. economy.


You've got to be careful with the mental illness label because the left will be using that to discredit anyone who disagrees with them or by labelling patriotic Americans and anyone who is opposed to their worldwide global communism as mentally ill.

That's exactly where that goes along with their red flag gun confiscation agenda. I would say that is more the real reason they are really pushing the unconstitutional red flag laws.
_________________________
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them…” ~ Richard Henry Lee
2 Corinthians 3:17




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#3300240 - 06/16/22 06:45 PM Re: A Call to Arms: Teachers in Conservative States Are Volunteering to Carry Guns [Re: hm1996]
hm1996 Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 18002
Loc: S. Texas
Originally Posted By: hm1996
That is true, however, one or two SRO's cannot be everywhere on a large campus and trained* armed teachers sprinkled in would offer a similar deterrent on a campus that CCW does in public.

FL gives their armed teachers a bit more than a couple of weeks training, and that's a good thing. Not sure what requirements are in other states:
Quote:
* Currently, it is open to employees of public schools or charter schools who volunteer to serve as guardians and their official job duties. To qualify, they must pass psychological and drug screenings, and complete a 144-hour training course.


Regards,
hm


Still not convinced armed teachers would not reduce school shootings?
Check out research by Dr. John R. Lott, Jr. PhD <johnrlott@crimeresearch.org> on the subject:

Quote:
Abstract

After the Columbine school shooting 20 years ago, one of the more significant changes in how we protect students has been the advance of legislation that allows teachers to carry guns at schools. There are two obvious questions: Does letting teachers carry create dangers? Might they deter attackers? Twenty states currently allow teachers and staff to carry guns to varying degrees on school property, so we don’t need to guess how the policy would work. There has yet to be a single case of someone being wounded or killed from a shooting, let alone a mass public shooting, between 6 AM and midnight at a school that lets teachers carry guns.

Read more here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3377801


Regards,
hm
_________________________
If what's ahead scares you & what's behind hurts you,look up; He never fails you.

If My people will humble themselves, pray, seek My face & turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven & will forgive their sin & heal their land. 2 Chron 7:14




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#3300242 - 06/16/22 10:33 PM Re: A Call to Arms: Teachers in Conservative States Are Volunteering to Carry Guns [Re: hm1996]
tnshootist Offline
PM senior

Registered: 11/26/10
Posts: 7756
Loc: East Tn
Well we really don't need to worry about the gun issue because climate change is going fry us all by next Thursday.
_________________________
"Money won't buy happiness, but you can suffer a better grade of misery in a nicer part of town." Brother Bill Samples


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#3300251 - 06/17/22 11:34 AM Re: A Call to Arms: Teachers in Conservative States Are Volunteering to Carry Guns [Re: hm1996]
pyscodog Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 16234
Loc: okla
Just caught the tail end of a article on Fox this morning and the question was has does a 1st Responder know the difference between an active shooter and a teacher if they both are armed? Maybe a moot point for some but I could see the confusion in a heated situation and bullets flying.

Another thought I had. Where does the teacher keep the firearm? In her purse, or in a drawer in the desk, or wear it on their side? How is the firearm secured to make sure a student doesn't have access to it?

Sorry but I'm just not sold on the idea that a teacher should have to be armed to do their job. I don't think anyone, other than law enforcement/military, should have to wear a firearm to work.
_________________________
Stay away from negative people, they have a problem for every solution.

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#3300255 - 06/17/22 01:37 PM Re: A Call to Arms: Teachers in Conservative States Are Volunteering to Carry Guns [Re: hm1996]
1oldcoyote Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/18/22
Posts: 130
Loc: Central plains
Arming some Teachers may be valid. As has been noted previously. Also may be asking for a false sense of security by some teachers. Some people in an intense moment will cave in. As has been mentioned before..."Teets on a boar" syndrome. I can't speak for anyone else.

However, while I've lawfully road hunted on county roads for many decades. I have been approached by some aggressive men(No witnesses around). Those men threatened me & accused me of rustling "cattle". Even though I told them I was coyote hunting...I stood my ground & we exchanged loud pleasantries. After so many seconds I went quiet & had enough of their BS. I was armed & loaded with my barrel pointed their way. While it rested on my lap.

Fortunately after those stand-offs. For whatever reason they drove away. I was asked after I told a few people about those incidents. IF... I could've pulled the trigger. I said you bet. Had I seen a barrel suddenly pointed my way. Then violence would've unfolded in a blink. I've been in violent fist fights before. Don't mean nothing.
_________________________
My only interest is wild canine Biology & Behaviors.

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#3300258 - 06/17/22 04:03 PM Re: A Call to Arms: Teachers in Conservative States Are Volunteering to Carry Guns [Re: pyscodog]
hm1996 Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 18002
Loc: S. Texas
Originally Posted By: pyscodog
Just caught the tail end of a article on Fox this morning and the question was has does a 1st Responder know the difference between an active shooter and a teacher if they both are armed? Maybe a moot point for some but I could see the confusion in a heated situation and bullets flying.


How do first responders tell the difference between a CCW and an active shooter outside of schools? It would be up to the teachers to identify themselves, just as it is for CCW's on the outside and the required training should cover the subject.


Originally Posted By: pyscodog
Another thought I had. Where does the teacher keep the firearm? In her purse, or in a drawer in the desk, or wear it on their side? How is the firearm secured to make sure a student doesn't have access to it?


This is another subject best covered in the training program. Personally, I am a bit concerned that firearm retention is not emphasized in more CCW training programs. Very important subject, especially in the proximity of youngsters, teachers would have to be ever vigilant as to where their firearm is.

Originally Posted By: pyscodog
Sorry but I'm just not sold on the idea that a teacher should have to be armed to do their job. I don't think anyone, other than law enforcement/military, should have to wear a firearm to work.


It is my understanding that 20 states have passed laws allowing their school teachers to be armed after receiving various training. It is also my understanding that there have been zero school shootings in any participating schools, which says something for such programs.

I don't have a clue as to other states' laws, but Texas law provides options for carry in K-12 schools, but it is left up to each school district to opt in or out of the program(s).

1) An institution may allow carrying however it would like to by issuing a written authorization or a written regulation. The institution may choose to require that those who carry attend a 16-hour course developed by DPS; this is known as the Guardian program.

2) Or, the institution may implement the School Marshal program, in which a few designated school employees attend an 80-hour training course and then are allowed to have handguns at the school. Marshals who interact with students regularly must store their handguns in a locked box. The School Marshal program also applies to junior colleges.

Under this plan, teachers who wish to participate may apply to their school district. I'm sure selection is made from those volunteers & no teachers should or would be required to participate.

I sure don't have all the answers, but based on the record established in the 20 various states that do provide for armed teachers w/proper training, I'd sure lean toward this as an option.

Various reports have mentioned contributing factors @ Uvalde, such as:

From the pictures of the Uvalde school, what little fencing present appeared to be about 4' high and most of the campus was unfenced.

It has also been mentioned that, while classroom doors were hardened and locked, officers had difficulty locating a key to enter the classrooms where shootings occurred. Perhaps indicating they had been locked from within after the shooter entered???? IDK.

Outer door was unlocked or propped open, as well.

Sounds as if some hardware was in place but maybe procedures not followed?? Another issue was outside windows were tinted, making it impossible for officers to see inside to assess situation.


At a minimum, IMO,
* All schools should have one entrance only.
* SRO should be present @ or near that entrance in every school
* Classroom doors should be locked when in session
* SOP's in place as to location of keys to said doors and outside doors should be secured at all times.

Quote:

Another School Shooting in a Place where teachers and staff were banned from carrying guns: Robb Elementary School in the Uvalde, Texas CISD



May 24, 2022 | Gun Free Zones, Original Research
CPRC original research gun free zones School Shootings

A shooting at a Texas elementary school left 14 children and one teacher murdered. While about 30% of school districts in Texas 2020 had armed teachers and staff, unfortunately, the Robb Elementary School in the Uvalde, Texas CISD doesn’t appear to be one of them. Their firearm regulations are detailed here. There are no provisions in their regulations for teachers or staff to carry.

The attack in Buffalo, New York illustrates once again how these murderers are attracted to places where the victims are not armed. For example, in his manifesto, he wrote: “areas where CCW are outlawed or prohibited may be good areas of attack.” More examples are available here and here.

Unfortunately, as we found in our 2019 study, despite 20 states allowing teachers or staff to carry guns, all the school shootings have occurred in schools that don’t allow them to carry. From the abstract of our study.

After the Columbine school shooting 20 years ago, one of the more significant changes in how we protect students has been the advance of legislation that allows teachers to carry guns at schools. There are two obvious questions: Does letting teachers carry create dangers? Might they deter attackers? Twenty states currently allow teachers and staff to carry guns to varying degrees on school property, so we don’t need to guess how the policy would work. There has yet to be a single case of someone being wounded or killed from a shooting, let alone a mass public shooting, between 6 AM and midnight at a school that lets teachers carry guns. Fears of teachers carrying guns in terms of such problems as students obtaining teachers guns have not occurred at all, and there was only one accidental discharge outside of school hours with no one was really harmed. While there have not been any problems at schools with armed teachers, the number of people killed at other schools has increased significantly – doubling between 2001 and 2008 versus 2009 and 2018.
John R. Lott, Jr., “Schools that Allow Teachers to Carry Guns are Extremely Safe: Data on the Rate of Shootings and Accidents in Schools that allow Teachers to Carry,” Social Science Research Network, May 29, 2019.

Research on this topic that we published in the Journal of Health Behavior Research is available here. Some information on universities is available here. A related piece that Dr. Lott wrote back in 2018 is available here.
(Visited 9284 times, 6 visits today)

https://crimeresearch.org/2022/05/anothe...lde-texas-cisd/


Regards,
hm
_________________________
If what's ahead scares you & what's behind hurts you,look up; He never fails you.

If My people will humble themselves, pray, seek My face & turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven & will forgive their sin & heal their land. 2 Chron 7:14




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#3300260 - 06/17/22 04:40 PM Re: A Call to Arms: Teachers in Conservative States Are Volunteering to Carry Guns [Re: hm1996]
pyscodog Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 16234
Loc: okla
I talked with a guy at a local gun shop today about this. He's pretty opened minded and said while he wasn't for teachers carrying he wasn't totally against it either. He said if teachers were going to carry, maybe they should let the office people know they were armed that day. That way if there was a shooter, the responding officers could talk with the school office people and know which teacher and what room the armed teacher is in.

Agree with hm, one way in and one way out. An officer at or near the door all the time. Class room doors locked as well.

Amazing that a bunch of us old rednecks can come up with tons of ideas and elected officials bang their heads and can't figure out squat.
_________________________
Stay away from negative people, they have a problem for every solution.

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#3300261 - 06/17/22 05:01 PM Re: A Call to Arms: Teachers in Conservative States Are Volunteering to Carry Guns [Re: pyscodog]
hm1996 Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 18002
Loc: S. Texas
There seems to have been an issue as to who was in charge of LEO's in Uvalde. DPS stated it was the school Chief of Police. The COP indicated he did not know he was in charge?? and did not bring his radio inside (so was unaware of the ongoing 911 pleas made by students during the fifty some minute delay).

Seems that SOP's should be in place as to chain of command, of course each event could/would be staffed differently depending upon the LEO's in the vicinity and available to respond at any given time.

sounds like a good idea for armed teachers to advise office of the fact at beginning of each day as a safety precaution.

One entrance and, of course fire exits, but exits should be alarmed to indicate when not locked for whatever reason.

Gov. Abbott has ordered formation of two committees to study school security. One headed by Lt Gov. and other by AG, I believe. He has also established a school safety group who will inspect every school's safety program prior to fall school sessions. (In spite of Beto's claims that nothing is being done and failure of MSM to report on ongoing response.)

Psycho's right, get the politicians out of the way and a bunch of old rednecks just might get 'er done. lol

Regards,
hm
_________________________
If what's ahead scares you & what's behind hurts you,look up; He never fails you.

If My people will humble themselves, pray, seek My face & turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven & will forgive their sin & heal their land. 2 Chron 7:14




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#3300263 - 06/17/22 05:12 PM Re: A Call to Arms: Teachers in Conservative States Are Volunteering to Carry Guns [Re: hm1996]
Foxpro.223 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 07/30/15
Posts: 1651
Loc: WY
Something really needs to be done about the certain teachers, the unions, and the organizations such as the so called human rights campaign who are teaching children in public scools about sexuality.

Marketing or trying to normalize homosexuality and transgenderism mental illness to little kids needs to be a crime.

Those organizations need to be banned from being allowed into schools to push those agendas. That really needs to be stopped.

Any teachers who believe that to be acceptable behavior in the classroom need a psych evaluation and need to find a different profession and those types shouldn't be packing in the classroom. With that said the gun free zones and the zero tolerance gun policies need to go.

The situation that is matastisizing in the government school system needs an overhaul back to the basics of educating students with real studies as opposed to teching the next generations to be deviant perverts, useful idiots, and communist revolutionaries.

The governor from FL is on the right track.

ETA:

Another thing to keep in mind about psychiatry and the psychological orgs is that they are dominated by the left with the same agaenda.


Edited by Foxpro.223 (06/17/22 05:33 PM)
_________________________
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them…” ~ Richard Henry Lee
2 Corinthians 3:17




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#3300264 - 06/17/22 06:45 PM Re: A Call to Arms: Teachers in Conservative States Are Volunteering to Carry Guns [Re: hm1996]
tnshootist Offline
PM senior

Registered: 11/26/10
Posts: 7756
Loc: East Tn
Marketing or trying to normalize homosexuality and transgenderism mental illness to little kids needs to be a crime.

I agree with this whole heartedly.
_________________________
"Money won't buy happiness, but you can suffer a better grade of misery in a nicer part of town." Brother Bill Samples


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