The OTHER only conclusion is it aint enough marksmanship sometimes.

Completely agree! Some of you guys should probably spend a little more time at the range shooting from "hunting" positions. I have a hard time with some of you that have never spent the time to be proficient enough with your guns to kill small animals. If you can't hit a pop can at 100yds from your sticks or bipod 20/20 times then you are not an "ethical" hunter and should either practice more or find another Hobbie. 223 is plenty! It's not the caliber that lacks its the trigger finger.

Now let's see some puffed out chests and bruised egos that won't admit they suck!

If someone can hit a pop can 20/20 times off sticks, maybe they should go to the convention, enter the egg shoot and win a new rifle. Not saying it can't be done, just a pretty tall order to fill.

Like all forms of hunting you don't have to be a very good shot to hit a critter at most calling distance. The issue lies in rushing the shot and not settling the crosshairs or sight pin. It's about nerves and has little or nothing to do with folks not being able to hit a pop can at 100 yards. The other issue is plain and simple a lot of guys are using the Whitetail shot placement mentality on coyotes behind the shoulder and that doesn't work 100% of the time on coyotes. You can put a fist-sized hole through one there and they'll still run. But when the nerves kick in and you go into what some guys will call autopilot the crosshairs automatically settled back there behind the shoulder for a lot of guys me included. Coyotes are a funny critter when it comes to shop placement seems a pop gun will kill him if you hit him just right but you can run a train through em behind the shoulder and they'll still run.

I never saw the need for anything bigger than a .22 cal when day hunting until I started hunting with thermal. When you hunt with thermal, you need a bigger gun lol

I think another thing that guys out west don't take into account is they see and get an opportunity to shoot a lot of coyotes and can possibly remain more calm with the added experience from many more shot opportunities. I know most guys over here towards Illinois lose their ever-loving mind when a coyote gets into range in the daylight. They want nothing more than to kill that coyote but the chances are few and far between. It's 99% mental.

Maybe but I started hunting coyotes in Texas and feel like my nerves are pretty solid. I don’t get jumpy when a coyote appears and I have lost a few too many with a 223 at night.

Aside from that, as a contest hunter, if a coyote takes more than one step, he has gone too far after the shot. I don’t care how good of a shot you are , a coyote will run from time to time when he gets hit with a 223. That’s not acceptable for contest hunting. I think we are looking for different thinks out of the round. I’d i was day hunting for pleasure, there would be no need for anything more than the old 223 rem

Oh I agree 100% my post wasn't directed at yours. We have a few runners at night as well. I shoot either a 22" 6x6.8 or 22 Nosler. Added a 243 Ar10 this spring. At night we will shoot several on the run too.

Psycho dog, you're the kind of person I'm talking to. You should stop hunting or go practice. Maybe then you'd have a few thousand less posts and a lot fewer missed or wounded animals. If you can't hit the can 20/20 you should be embarrassed!

Not living out west is not an excuse for your lack of practice. And I'm pretty sure not everyone in Illinois pissess down both legs the way you do when they see an animal.

Varminter, 👍🏻 Contests don’t allow for ideal shots a lot of the time

Can you explain to me how you practice simulating nerves when a coyote is charging in oh wizard of the west? Shot opportunities is really the only way. Almost anyone can hit a coyote sized target all day when shooting or practicing. While I don't kill everything I shoot at I never directly mentioned myself, I said most guys. You seem to have not been able to comprehend my post....desert heat getting to to you? Most guys get fewer than a handful of shots and some none each year here day calling. Don't believe I mentioned anything about pizzing but ya most guys get awful jack up.

Coyotes here don't even come out in the daylight much here. They certainly never stand still long enough for a bench rest style shot process. Before night hunting I would kill more each year with my bow just because I hunt every day. They don't come easy here. Most coyotes that get killed here in the day are probably run by dogs and shot while running too. I coyotes that are called in are inside for very short. Of time and then normally there and gone if you don't make the shot happen. I assume an Open Country there's more time to set up and get ready. Hopefully one day I'll make it there to find out myself.

If you put a decent type bullet from a 223 where it is supposed to go the result is a dead coyote usually DRT. Certainly, marginal hits will mean runners, spinners, and some losers. I've always wondered on these discussions of the 223 why so many have bad experiences with it, but at least a portion of those people will tell you the 222 Rem. was and still is a great medium range coyote cartridge. Hard to believe it can be both ways.

I'm tending to believe that perhaps it is because the triple deuce is usually a bolt-action whereas a high percentage of 223's are AR's. Perhaps those fast follow up shots available with an AR may keep some from taking as careful first shot as they would with a bolt-action, and then with the AR it is easy to go into the spray and pray mode. Just a thought I have, and may not be valid, but I suspect it is in some cases.

I do like the AR for night calling and really enjoy the 6x45, but you still have to hit them in vital places.

LOL, I get plenty of range time. I'm the rifle range chairman at my gun club. Usually there 3-7 times a week. Sometimes working and sometimes shooting but trust me, I get plenty of range time. Those that know me know how I shoot. I'm just saying most...including me might have a tough time hitting 20/20 pop cans off shooting sticks at 100yds. Give me a decent rifle rest and there won't be a problem. As far as wounding animals, I take sensible shots at reasonable distances. If I think its to far away, I don't shoot. Been a long time since I wounded anything. Not counting your feelings.