NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy...

Dave are one of those Dead Coyote "T" shot pellets broken in half?

I have noticed that some of the Hevi-Shot "T" shot and buckshot are advertised as frangible. I don't think that they were originally frangible.

I don't understand why they would want big shotgun pellets to break into smaller pieces when they hit something hard.

Thanks for posting that total pages penetrated chart, it is very impressive!
 
Bob, yup, several of the recovered DC T shot were broken.

If you think of that total pages as total wound channel, which essentially it is, those numbers are pretty astonishing.

- DAA
 
Environ Metal has changed the composition of the Dead Coyote pellets at times throughout production. At one time the pellets were so brittle they would break into a grayish dust when hitting dense muscle or bone. It was documented here with skinned coyote pictures years ago. I have easily crushed Dead Coyote T pellets with a small pair of pliers.
EM also has the annoying tendency of changing components in the load at times. At times the wad or shot buffering materials have changed. That can play heck on patterns. All that after investing time and money to find a combination that maximizes your gun, choke and the original version of the shell. Then with no notice nothing works the same and it's back to the patterning board. Never been a fan of Dead Coyote shells. Turkey hunters have had the same issues with EM turkey loads. Maybe EM has tightened up QC and things are better in current production shells?
 
EMI or Hevi-Shot is the most dishonest ammo manufacturer I have ever seen or heard of.

Not to long ago I was watching a goose hunting show on TV when a EMI commercial came up. During this commercial they talked about how Hevi-Shot was heavier than lead and how it out performs lead shot, they went on and on about how great Hevi-Shot is.

But during this commercial they kept showing boxes of Hevi-X shells. They never mentioned that Hevi-Shot ammo comes in boxes of ten shells and costs about $4.50 per shell. They kept showing the boxes of Hevi-X that come in boxes of 25 shells and they sell for about $1.30 per shell.

Hevi-X shot is not as dense or heavy as lead. So while they were showing boxes of Hevi-X ammo they were talking about the performance of the original Hevi-Shot. So they are trying to trick you into buying the cheaper and not nearly as good Hevi-X ammo by getting you to think it was the good Hevi-Shot.

There is also some commercials for the EMI Hevi-X loads on the goose hunting shows and they say Hevi-X will change the industry and it is just plain nasty and they have never seen anything like it. So EMI or Hevi-Shot is saying that the Hevi-X loads that are not as dense as lead and cost 66% less than Hevi-Shot loads do, but they are really nasty and they have never seen anything like it! LOL

They make it sound like being just plain nasty and never seen anything like it, was a compliment.


EMI did the same thing with Hevi-Metal ammo. They claimed it was Hevi-Shot duplexed with steel shot. But there never was Hevi-Shot put into the Hevi-Metal ammo it was Hevi-Metal shot duplexed with steel shot. With Hevi-Metal loads if you buy #3 shot, it is the steel shot that is #3 shot. The Hevi-Metal shot is quite a bit smaller in size so unless you take the shells apart to see what size it is you don't know what you are shooting.

The new Hevi-Steel loads are just plain steel shot. EMI quit making the Hevi-Steel loads many years ago that were denser than steel shot. Hevi-Steel was closer to being about as dense as Bismuth shot.

Why did they use the same name on just plain steel shot when they started making steel shot loads? There is nothing Hevi about the steel shot in the new Hevi-Steel loads.
 
Ever look under the hood of their blended size shot turkey loads? Buy the 5/6/7 blended load and find a bunch of 8 or 9 size shot? Patterns great!
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted By: derbyacresbobIf the density of the shot is close to being the same the hard shot will out penetrate softer shot that deforms more when it hits something.

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The shot in the above pictures is shot I removed from catalogs when I did some penetration testing.

If I could shoot lead shot at the 25 pound to 35 pound coyotes we have around here I would be reloading the lead BBB or lead T shot that BPI sells.

Does BBB and T take a more open choke like #4 Buck or do they perform well at tighter chokes? I need to order shot soon, so I may try BBB or T, but I don't want to end up having to buy another choke. I am running a Kick's GT 0.670 now and it has patterned well with BB.
 
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Depends upon shot material and the actual constriction your choke is giving you from your barrel diameter.
 
I'm using lead (but I will be heat treating it) and I believe the Benelli has a 0.725 bore. I know it's a crap shoot anyway, and will have to pattern it.
 
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Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnothow are you doing the heat treat on the shot?

I have a lab oven with a PID controller that I can dial in to any temp I want. I have been doing the BPI Super Buck at 450 for an hour, and then quenching. Hardness goes from about 10 Bhn to 24 Bhn. I may try doing some at a higher temp, but I am close to max for the oven right now, so I am not sure how much harder it would actually get. Too hard and it will shatter when it hits bone anyway.

You can really see the difference when you drop the shot. I have a cast iron table for one of my machines, and when you drop the untreated shot it bounces about 1/2" and then stops. It sounds kinda dead when it hits too. The HT stuff bounces about 3-1/2" and you can hear a bit of a "ping" when it hits the surface and it will bounce about 3 or 4 times.
 
Originally Posted By: MatlockHere's the second go at patterning Remington V3 FS from a few weekends ago. Conditions were good for an early fall day: high 50's with a slight headwind like the first time out.

The numbers show hits within 10" circle, hits on 30" square, and number of pellets in the load. Also noted are the choke used, exit diameter, and bore restriction. I'd like to have my shotgun bore officially measured, but for now I'm going off of Remington's specs of .727 bore diameter.

This time out I decided to run through all the factory chokes included with the V3 - IC, Mod, and Full - as well as a used Remington Turkey Super Full Extended I picked up off eBay.

IC = .720 (.007)
Mod = .709 (.018)
Full = .691 (.036)
SF = .665 (.062)

Factory loads tested:

Rem #4 buck
Fed #4 CP buck (P1584B)

First shot was fired from a clean bore and all chokes were cleaned prior to patterning.

At this point, it seems the Fed #4 buck shot tighter patterns more consistently out of the Full and Super Full, but I had more hits on paper with the Rem #4 with Full. The patterns were simply more erratic with the Rem #4 across the board.

I've read just about this entire thread and I've seen recommendations of a bore restriction sweet spot of somewhere generally within the .050 and .065 range. The Super Full almost reaches the upper end of that range and the Full is well below, so I'm thinking I need to try a choke somewhere between .050 and .062 of my SF. Or should I just stop and use what I have?

Any comments/feedback are appreciated. Thanks.

IC





Mod





Full - only patterned with Fed #4 buck since I patterned Rem #4 buck last time




Super Full







For the guys curious about checking shotgun bores but don't want to buy an actual bore gauge, I found a set of spring loaded measuring gauges made for measuring inside of pipe at harbour freight for less than 20 bucks. You stick it in the barrel then twist the handle to lock it in place then pull it out and you can then measure it's position. I will do it a few times to make sure the measurements are consistent
 
WOW!

We went one year without a reply on GC's great old "NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results" post.

It blows me away how most shotgun shooters don't pay much attention to the loads they shoot and just use what is available to them locally.

A big percentage of rifle shooters are just the opposite. They reload their own ammo and wear their rifle barrels out trying to get under 1/2" groups at 200 yards.
 
Originally Posted By: Eng BobVery interesting we are going completely lead free in about 4 years over here in UK .

I think the USA will not be far behind. Not a real issue though, the advancements in tungsten and bismuth make for some real nice loads. Steel breaks targets just fine. I wouldn't miss lead being banned.
 
Originally Posted By: Kevin23Originally Posted By: Eng BobVery interesting we are going completely lead free in about 4 years over here in UK .

I think the USA will not be far behind. Not a real issue though, the advancements in tungsten and bismuth make for some real nice loads. Steel breaks targets just fine. I wouldn't miss lead being banned.

I would miss lead shot. The combination of effectiveness, availability and very importantly cost per shot makes lead a good option.

 
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