Electronic calls legal for Deer hunt in AZ

bigdog1

New member
Pretty much what it says, I need to know if I can legally use electronic call while deer hunting in Arizona.

Thanks in advance.
Dave
 
Yes, electronic callers can be used to hunt everything in AZ except migratory birds. The reason migratory birds cannot be taken with electronic callers is due to federal law (50CFR20.21g).

Getting On My Soapbox:
There is no science behind migratory birds being more attracted to a recorded sound than a non-recorded sound. Therefore, the federal law (50CFR20.21g) is based on a false perception that it is unfair chase. I think the federal law should be repealed since it only complicates the hunting regulations and accomplishes nothing to protect the resource.
 
Thanks fs I was pretty sure it was legal but wanted to make sure, Got drawn for Mule Deer in 6A. Hope it works out.''Where are you located. Me Mesa.

Dave
 
Originally Posted By: FursniperGetting On My Soapbox:
There is no science behind migratory birds being more attracted to a recorded sound than a non-recorded sound.

may be true, but a person can play sounds on a electronic device much, much louder and continue playing those sounds as long as the batteries last.

electronic calls are legal for the spring snow goose hunt. blasting snow geese sounds extremely loud from 2, 4, or more big old horn speakers pointed in various directions is very effective.
 
You comment brings up another good point. That is, why did the US Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) allow electronic callers for geese only seasons, but not for other waterfowl seasons?

In the State of AZ, turkey, quail, chukar, and all other upland game birds can be taken with the aid of electronic callers. However, migratory birds cannot due to the USFWS regulations. There is no science behind migratory birds being more attracted to recorded sounds than non-migratory birds. I do not see the logic behind why the USFWS considers geese an exception.

Here is a link to the USFWS regulations for taking migratory birds.

Below is paragraph (g) which I think should be repealed.

Quote:50 CFR 20.21 What hunting methods are illegal?

Migratory birds on which open seasons are prescribed in this part may be taken by any method except those prohibited in this section. No persons shall take migratory game birds:

(g) By the use or aid of recorded or electrically amplified bird calls or sounds, or recorded or electrically amplified imitations of bird calls or sounds. However, this restriction does not apply during:

(1) A light-goose-only season (greater and lesser snow geese and Ross' geese) when all other waterfowl and crane hunting seasons, excluding falconry, are closed.

(2) A Canada goose only season when all other waterfowl and crane hunting seasons, excluding falconry, are closed in the Atlantic, Central, and Mississippi Flyway portions of Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming, as set forth below:

(i) During the period of September 1 to September 15, when approved in the annual regulatory schedule in subpart K of this part; and

(ii) During the period of September 16 to September 30, when approved in the annual regulatory schedule in subpart K of this part.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/50/20.21




I believe that 50 CFR 20.21 (g) is a federal law that we don't need. I'm wondering if the law is based on social reasons. For example, to minimize the noise in the field as a courtesy to other people nearby. If so, paragraph (g) should still be repealed and left up to the states to determine where electronic callers are a conflict, not for the feds to prohibit using electronic callers everywhere in the USA for migratory birds.



 
Originally Posted By: FursniperI believe that 50 CFR 20.21 (g) is a federal law that we don't need. I'm wondering if the law is based on social reasons. For example, to minimize the noise in the field as a courtesy to other people nearby. If so, paragraph (g) should still be repealed and left up to the states to determine where electronic callers are a conflict, not for the feds to prohibit using electronic callers everywhere in the USA for migratory birds.

I believe the exceptions for electronic callers focuses on reducing two populations: "light geese" that have greatly expanded and are displacing other waterfowl species, and resident/non-migratory Canada Geese.

Snow goose populations:

Midcontinent-lesser-snow-goose-population-number-of-nesting-birds-per-region-Eastern.png
 
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Originally Posted By: erictI believe the exceptions for electronic callers focuses on reducing two populations: "light geese" that have greatly expanded and are displacing other waterfowl species, and resident/non-migratory Canada Geese.

Thanks for your comments and feedback on the graph. That explains the need to put more pressure on removing geese.

I have a couple of questions since we do not have geese only seasons in Arizona.

1) Did bag and possession limits remain the same on geese after allowing the use of electronic callers?

2) Did bag and possession limits increase on geese in addition to allowing the use of electronic callers?

I'm curious about how significant harvest levels would increase by allowing electronic callers to control the geese population. My guess is that manipulating bag and possession limits is what provides population management, not the use of electronic callers.

I did some searching and discovered that amendments to 50CFR 20.21 (b) and (g) were implemented on August 20, 2007 to allow electronic callers AND unplugged shotguns on geese. Here is the link to the info.

https://www.federalregister.gov/document...ose-populations


In the past 10+ years since electronic callers have been allowed in geese only seasons, did it make any difference in reducing the geese population?

I'm thinking if bag and possession limits are appropriate, there is no need to restrict the use of electronic callers for hunting any migratory birds.

 
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To answer the question - yes, bag and possession limits were greatly increased during the special seasons. I do think that allowing electronic callers did result in many more hunters trying the special seasons and as a result shot more of these target birds.

Frankly, I think duck hunters are nuts - dogs, boats, guns, camo this and that, then spend hours out in a boat freezing yer azzes off just to shoot a few birds that taste like liver. I frankly wouldn't care what y'all used to get your limit.....but...... we have this thing called tradition and "fair chase" and things like lead shot bans that all contributed to increased regulations. As a result,How electronic calls became banned for waterfowl hunting came along. Same old story still happening, as Pennsylvania just "unbanned" the use of "roboducks" that had been outlawed for years.

Jump forward to modern days when the number of hunters is going down and wildlife managers have this problem with too many geese. So, we need to make it as enticing as possible to get hunters out there. This shows the efforts some states make: Arkansas Light Goose Conservation Order:

"Light geese aren't only a nuisance to Arkansas farmers. They have become so abundant, they are destroying their nesting grounds in the Arctic Tundra. Not only are the geese eating themselves out of house and home, they're destroying critical habitat for other species that share the Tundra. Biologists can conduct eradication efforts to balance the population, but do so only as a last resort. Increased hunting opportunity is the first wildlife management tool biologists turn to, because it costs very little to implement and is much more socially accepted than other population control measures.

The conservation order is designed so hunters can reduce Snow, Blue and Ross's goose numbers through increased harvest. Because of the extreme need for more harvest, many waterfowl hunting regulations are relaxed during the order:

Shooting hours are from 30 minutes before sunrise until 30 minutes after sunset.
There is no daily bag limit or possession limit.
Hunters may use unplugged shotguns.
Hunters may use electronic calls.
Hunters do not need a Migratory Bird Hunting and Conservation Stamp, Arkansas Waterfowl Stamp, or HIP registration but must have a valid hunting license from any state (excludes youths 15 and younger).
All hunters participating in the conservation order must get a free registration permit number by calling 800-364-4263 (GAME) Monday-Friday, 8 a.m.-4:30 p.m., or clicking on the permit link on this page."
 
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Thanks for providing this info. I enjoy reading your comments and this was very informative. Looks like Arkansas has the right idea.

The reasoning behind the USFWS banning e-callers in 1957 should probably be re-evaluated. The compliance rate for hunters abiding by bag and possession limits is probably much higher today than it was 60 years ago. The fair chase argument is hypocritical since e-callers can be used for taking non-migratory birds. It creates a law enforcement conflict when people are hunting upland game birds and waterfowl at the same pond.

If you have any connections with the USFWS to change their tradition on banning e-callers, please pass this info along.
 
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