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#3110626 - 12/08/17 06:19 PM right vs legal
grinder67 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/31/12
Posts: 342
Loc: north central IN.
Liver shot doe that travels half mile or better and is killed by a second hunter. First hunter shows up shortly after the kill, what is the legal thing to do and what is the right thing to do? Or are they one in the same? Can it be up to the discretion of the two hunters to come to a gentlemen s agreement?

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#3110640 - 12/08/17 06:55 PM Re: right vs legal [Re: grinder67]
GC Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17099
Loc: Missouri
Killed by the second hunter... That's the one that legally killed the deer and legally should tag it. And, by rights in my mind should have the deer if they want it. It's happened to me twice and both times I broke the law.

Once years ago hunting whitetail on public land I heard a flurry of shots not far off. Very shortly a little fork horn buck came along about half dragging some intestines and all humped up. I could tell he was obviously gut shot to heII. I killed him and waited, after a bit a man and his young son came along the trail. I went down there and talked to them. Kid jumped the deer and opened up with a Ruger semi-auto .44 magnum. He actually hit the little buck twice, both gut shots. Kid wanted the deer, his first buck and as I surely didn't want to deal with the mess he created I was more than happy for him to tag it. Second time was about the same except this was an antelope in Wyoming and the shooter was an old feller that had trouble just walking through the sage. Gut shot antelope with green goo strung out all along its flank and back leg.

To me it worked out. While technically I should have tagged the animals, both were dispatched as soon as they came by me ending their suffering, both were tagged by the original shooter/hunter and so both utilized as was intended by having a hunting season. I can't see any wrong in it.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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#3110662 - 12/08/17 07:50 PM Re: right vs legal [Re: grinder67]
grinder67 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/31/12
Posts: 342
Loc: north central IN.
I agree with you totally, and I have as well put down a wounded deer that was shot through both rear legs by a youth hunter with a 44 and let the young man (11 years old) have his first buck. I gutted it,skinned and quartered it for him (I did not know him or his family but knew that his father had been killed in a car crash just 2 months before) in turn his mom let me keep the back straps. I know I done what I thought was the right thing but was it the legal thing? Had he not wanted the deer I would have tag it although it was not a buck that I would have normally taken.
Im sure this law could very state to state but on another forum a retired C.O. from PA. says its absolutely ok to let the first hunter tag the deer. He may be right but I know for a fact that just because a law enforcement officer says it doesn't necessarily make it the law.
GC are you a game warden?

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#3110720 - 12/08/17 10:27 PM Re: right vs legal [Re: grinder67]
GC Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17099
Loc: Missouri
No sir, not a warden.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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#3110724 - 12/08/17 10:34 PM Re: right vs legal [Re: GC]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9466
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: GC
No sir, not a warden.


Shoulda been.
Common sense ain’t very common.
grin
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“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

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#3110892 - 12/09/17 01:49 PM Re: right vs legal [Re: grinder67]
1100 Remington Man Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 161
Loc: IA USA
I will always put a animal out of its misery. If the first person wants it that’s fine with me. I have bagged many a deer and can find another. If they do not I would tag it and take it home.
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#3110935 - 12/09/17 05:50 PM Re: right vs legal [Re: grinder67]
Fursniper Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 1967
Loc: AZ
.



Edited by Fursniper (12/09/17 10:17 PM)
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Introducing a new person to hunting and watching them be successful is more rewarding than being successful yourself.

Make time to create a conservationist.

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#3110942 - 12/09/17 06:29 PM Re: right vs legal [Re: grinder67]
GC Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17099
Loc: Missouri
Fursniper it's just as I said above and you are 100% correct. But it's all a bunch of BS over nothing. There is no criminal intent and the game is utilized as it should be and I personally see no wrong in it. I'll tell you this, I have the authority to write those same citations, file those same charges and work those same cases and I'd never do so in such a situation as I described above or in your example. I can live with cutting a decent person a break and exercising some common sense. If I'm wrong for that I'll take the heat for it.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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#3110971 - 12/09/17 07:58 PM Re: right vs legal [Re: GC]
Fursniper Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 1967
Loc: AZ
Originally Posted By: GC
Fursniper it's just as I said above and you are 100% correct. But it's all a bunch of BS over nothing. There is no criminal intent and the game is utilized as it should be and I personally see no wrong in it. I'll tell you this, I have the authority to write those same citations, file those same charges and work those same cases and I'd never do so in such a situation as I described above or in your example. I can live with cutting a decent person a break and exercising some common sense. If I'm wrong for that I'll take the heat for it.


You are not wrong, I agree 100%.

I deleted my post above because I later felt the story may have contained some confidential material. My intent of posting it was to show that officers are under more scrutiny than the general public for doing the same thing and can face consequences the general public does not have to. I don't feel it came across that way and was best to take it down.


Edited by Fursniper (12/09/17 10:22 PM)
Edit Reason: deleted post
_________________________
Introducing a new person to hunting and watching them be successful is more rewarding than being successful yourself.

Make time to create a conservationist.

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#3111531 - 12/11/17 07:52 PM Re: right vs legal [Re: grinder67]
why Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 820
Loc: md eastern shore
+1 GC, you are a good man.

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#3111571 - 12/11/17 09:51 PM Re: right vs legal [Re: grinder67]
erict Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 420
Loc: near Albany, NY
First shot was a killing shot, it was just going to take a while.
Second shot was a killing shot that put the animal down and by law that hunter should tag it.

Two adults should be able to sort this out easily enough, but this becomes a much more sticky situation when it's a slammer buck instead of a doe involved.

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#3111910 - 12/12/17 09:50 PM Re: right vs legal [Re: grinder67]
FairChase93 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 1306
Loc: Western South Dakota
In South Dakota I've always heard it referred to as the "rule of first blood" its fairly common practice for this situation to play out where the hunter who draws the "first blood" to claim the animal. I couldn't tell you if its legal or not but its real common practice. In not so sure they didn't even teach us this during our Archery certification course.

In fact there was a story describing basically this exact same circumstance except with a buck on a highly popular public Facebook page and website. It was widely accepted as the way it worked.


Edited by FairChase93 (12/12/17 10:11 PM)
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#3111992 - 12/13/17 08:20 AM Re: right vs legal [Re: grinder67]
GC Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17099
Loc: Missouri
Just curious about the "rule of first blood." if the first hunter makes a non fatal hit, say something like breaking a front leg down low away from the chest, which is completely and clearly survivable for the deer and the second hunter makes a perfect heart/lung shot which kills the deer within seconds - the first hunter tags the deer?
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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#3112263 - 12/13/17 09:23 PM Re: right vs legal [Re: grinder67]
FairChase93 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 1306
Loc: Western South Dakota
I know of several instances where it has played out that way. In the story I was referencing that was posted on a high traffic public facebook page and website the "first blood" was described as a "clipping of the hind qaurter". I'm not guaranteeing any of this is law, still working on confirming that for sure, but its pretty well how I've always known it to be handled.

I do think the issue would be hotly contested if a 200" buck was involved.

Now if you draw first blood and the deer runs to a property you don't have permission to hunt and somebody else shoots it then it gets interesting becside you have no right to claim a deer on that property.
_________________________
"If his brains were black powder he couldn't blow his own nose"
-From Stephen King's The Shining

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#3112749 - 12/15/17 01:26 PM Re: right vs legal [Re: grinder67]
Ankeny Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 663
Loc: Shoshoni, Wyoming
Quote:
I'll tell you this, I have the authority to write those same citations, file those same charges and work those same cases and I'd never do so in such a situation as I described above or in your example. I can live with cutting a decent person a break and exercising some common sense. If I'm wrong for that I'll take the heat for it.
Isn't that called "discretionary powers" or something like that? Around here I think all of our Wardens and Enforcement Specialists would work with the hunters to sort things out. The only fly in the ointment would be something like party hunting, attempting to take an additional critter and so forth. However, if some one with POA decides to write the citation, you need to be prepared to take the heat and hope the judge has a brain.

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