I used to engage in these conversations. In fact, you can search right here and find similar discussions about religion in which I got involved, sometimes quite heatedly. I guess I outgrew it, or at least realized the futility of it. I no longer try to convince anyone. My beliefs are mine and I'll keep them that way. I expect the same courtesy from others. It's extremely unlikely that atheists will convert theists, and vice versa. It's much simpler to stick to talking of guns, hunting, and our shared passion for the outdoors, which is where I prefer to be on a Sunday morning.
A Question for Atheists
- Thread starter Merdit
- Start date
^^^^^I know right, gets where one is just repeating the same points over and over. Here is something I don’t think has been covered; does your entire family believe there is no God? Reading all these posts has gotten me wondering about family funerals. Does the thought of family members praying over your dead body offend you? For a lot of people, the pain of losing a loved one is comforted by the belief that their departed is now dwelling in a better place, along with hopes of one day being reunited with them.
IAyoteHNTR
New member
Originally Posted By: Infidel 762Does the thought of family members praying over your dead body offend you? For a lot of people, the pain of losing a loved one is comforted by the belief that their departed is now dwelling in a better place, along with hopes of one day being reunited with them.
I wouldn't say it offends me since I understand certain family members find their faith the crutch they need to help cope but no one will be praying over my dead body. I don't plan on having a funeral. I want no public service of any type. I just want to be cremated and my immediate family can do what they wish with the ashes. Hope to have some spread around my favorite hunting/fishing spots. I want no grave stone, no marker of any type anywhere. I know I'll be remembered by the ones I loved the most and that's good enough for me.
I wouldn't say it offends me since I understand certain family members find their faith the crutch they need to help cope but no one will be praying over my dead body. I don't plan on having a funeral. I want no public service of any type. I just want to be cremated and my immediate family can do what they wish with the ashes. Hope to have some spread around my favorite hunting/fishing spots. I want no grave stone, no marker of any type anywhere. I know I'll be remembered by the ones I loved the most and that's good enough for me.
Merdit
Active member
DesertRam and Infidel,
I agree that an internet argument about beliefs is pretty much a waste of time. I almost didn't ask the question, figuring it would most likely just get smart aleck responses and turn that direction. However, there was a real answer and a bit of insight gained.
I have always wondered why anyone who believes that there is no God would spend their time trying to convince someone else to believe the same. It appears to me as irrational as my faith does to them, I suppose.
I agree that an internet argument about beliefs is pretty much a waste of time. I almost didn't ask the question, figuring it would most likely just get smart aleck responses and turn that direction. However, there was a real answer and a bit of insight gained.
I have always wondered why anyone who believes that there is no God would spend their time trying to convince someone else to believe the same. It appears to me as irrational as my faith does to them, I suppose.
IAyoteHNTR
New member
Originally Posted By: MerditDesertRam and Infidel,
I agree that an internet argument about beliefs is pretty much a waste of time. I almost didn't ask the question, figuring it would most likely just get smart aleck responses and turn that direction. However, there was a real answer and a bit of insight gained.
I have always wondered why anyone who believes that there is no God would spend their time trying to convince someone else to believe the same. It appears to me as irrational as my faith does to them, I suppose.
I totally agree. It's 99% of the time a waste of time for people with opposing views/beliefs to argue with the other side, especially on the internet. You don't get the luxury of seeing a person's body language and hear the tone in their voice, etc. It never works out very well when just seeing words on a screen. Face to face is a completely different experience which I wish more of us would take the time to do.
I'm sure there are probably more than a few guys in here that have me blocked. I know I have several blocked myself. What's funny though is the fact that some of my better friends and some close family are devout Christians and we can have some pretty lively discussions w/o really offending each other when it comes to our differing views on god/jesus/religion, etc.
My best fishing buddy's father is a Pastor and we think nothing of our differences, we just enjoy fishing together. I shoot/hunt with a couple of really conservative guys who came from an Amish/Mennonite upbringing and we get along just fine and we each know we have VERY different beliefs. I think they're nuts, they think I'm nuts, but in the end we all know how to be decent people to each other regardless of our differences. Somehow it works.
I agree that an internet argument about beliefs is pretty much a waste of time. I almost didn't ask the question, figuring it would most likely just get smart aleck responses and turn that direction. However, there was a real answer and a bit of insight gained.
I have always wondered why anyone who believes that there is no God would spend their time trying to convince someone else to believe the same. It appears to me as irrational as my faith does to them, I suppose.
I totally agree. It's 99% of the time a waste of time for people with opposing views/beliefs to argue with the other side, especially on the internet. You don't get the luxury of seeing a person's body language and hear the tone in their voice, etc. It never works out very well when just seeing words on a screen. Face to face is a completely different experience which I wish more of us would take the time to do.
I'm sure there are probably more than a few guys in here that have me blocked. I know I have several blocked myself. What's funny though is the fact that some of my better friends and some close family are devout Christians and we can have some pretty lively discussions w/o really offending each other when it comes to our differing views on god/jesus/religion, etc.
My best fishing buddy's father is a Pastor and we think nothing of our differences, we just enjoy fishing together. I shoot/hunt with a couple of really conservative guys who came from an Amish/Mennonite upbringing and we get along just fine and we each know we have VERY different beliefs. I think they're nuts, they think I'm nuts, but in the end we all know how to be decent people to each other regardless of our differences. Somehow it works.
Originally Posted By: Merdit
I have always wondered why anyone who believes that there is no God would spend their time trying to convince someone else to believe the same. It appears to me as irrational as my faith does to them, I suppose.
Merdit,
How many proselytizing atheists do you know?
What methods do they use to try to convince you to renounce your Christian faith and replace it with the principles of atheism?
*
I have always wondered why anyone who believes that there is no God would spend their time trying to convince someone else to believe the same. It appears to me as irrational as my faith does to them, I suppose.
Merdit,
How many proselytizing atheists do you know?
What methods do they use to try to convince you to renounce your Christian faith and replace it with the principles of atheism?
*
Originally Posted By: Infidel 762Here is something I don’t think has been covered; does your entire family believe there is no God? Reading all these posts has gotten me wondering about family funerals. Does the thought of family members praying over your dead body offend you? For a lot of people, the pain of losing a loved one is comforted by the belief that their departed is now dwelling in a better place, along with hopes of one day being reunited with them.
I'm the only real non-believer in my immediate family, and I'm not hard-core. I don't completely discount the notion of a higher being, simply because I can't prove it either way. There could be someone/something more powerful than us as easily as there couldn't. Is it God, a god, or more advanced aliens? I don't know. I'm just not gonna worry about it. I'll continue to be as good a person as I can and lead my kids down that same road. My wife is a believer and exposes the kids to religion (though she's not a church-goer). When they're a bit older, they will be ready for more complex conversations on spirituality. That's when I come in.
Meanwhile, if I kick the bucket and they want to waste a plot of dirt planting me instead of something edible, I guess there's not much I can do about it. It will give them considerable peace to have access to my remains. I'm not sure why, but that's the way it is. I'd prefer cremation and being scattered to the four winds. But since I'll be dead, I won't be in charge any more. And since I don't believe I'll be looking down fondly upon their grieving heads, I won't even get to be mad at them. They'll be happy, and that's what I really want out of this life anyway.
I'm the only real non-believer in my immediate family, and I'm not hard-core. I don't completely discount the notion of a higher being, simply because I can't prove it either way. There could be someone/something more powerful than us as easily as there couldn't. Is it God, a god, or more advanced aliens? I don't know. I'm just not gonna worry about it. I'll continue to be as good a person as I can and lead my kids down that same road. My wife is a believer and exposes the kids to religion (though she's not a church-goer). When they're a bit older, they will be ready for more complex conversations on spirituality. That's when I come in.
Meanwhile, if I kick the bucket and they want to waste a plot of dirt planting me instead of something edible, I guess there's not much I can do about it. It will give them considerable peace to have access to my remains. I'm not sure why, but that's the way it is. I'd prefer cremation and being scattered to the four winds. But since I'll be dead, I won't be in charge any more. And since I don't believe I'll be looking down fondly upon their grieving heads, I won't even get to be mad at them. They'll be happy, and that's what I really want out of this life anyway.
Originally Posted By: IAyoteHNTROriginally Posted By: Infidel 762Does the thought of family members praying over your dead body offend you? For a lot of people, the pain of losing a loved one is comforted by the belief that their departed is now dwelling in a better place, along with hopes of one day being reunited with them.
I wouldn't say it offends me since I understand certain family members find their faith the crutch they need to help cope but no one will be praying over my dead body. I don't plan on having a funeral. I want no public service of any type. I just want to be cremated and my immediate family can do what they wish with the ashes. Hope to have some spread around my favorite hunting/fishing spots. I want no grave stone, no marker of any type anywhere. I know I'll be remembered by the ones I loved the most and that's good enough for me.
Ahhh yeah, but you see that? If after death all goes void and black, then why would you care where your ashes are spread? Why not just donate your body to the sciences which have formed so many of your beliefs? It would be a wholesome departing gift to this world, in which you and most of us just want to be good people with no other motives than kindness to fellow man. Likewise I have told my kids I want to be cremated and ashes spread at the ranch.
I think some people hold superstitions they are not always aware of. I think most everyone down deep inside are still encoded with primordial instincts. Instincts to kill other people to ensure food and water supply, shelter, providing for offspring, dominance of social groups and ensuring the strongest of the species reproduce. I think our societies have spent the last few hundred years deprogramming us to suppress those instincts. Some twist religion as a reason to act on primordial instincts while others play on the natural necessity aspect. The final solution of the Holocaust was not about religion but a primitive idea of a superior race of our species.
When did instincts that helped ensure our survival become unacceptable in our social and family groups? How does science define morality? Or should I say when did our species develop the self-awareness needed for morality to exist? What about love? Is there a scientific explanation for love or is it just a primitive instinct to keep the male around while raising offspring? Is there a scientific definition of love or is it just a state of mind that cannot be proved to exist nor not exist?
I wouldn't say it offends me since I understand certain family members find their faith the crutch they need to help cope but no one will be praying over my dead body. I don't plan on having a funeral. I want no public service of any type. I just want to be cremated and my immediate family can do what they wish with the ashes. Hope to have some spread around my favorite hunting/fishing spots. I want no grave stone, no marker of any type anywhere. I know I'll be remembered by the ones I loved the most and that's good enough for me.
Ahhh yeah, but you see that? If after death all goes void and black, then why would you care where your ashes are spread? Why not just donate your body to the sciences which have formed so many of your beliefs? It would be a wholesome departing gift to this world, in which you and most of us just want to be good people with no other motives than kindness to fellow man. Likewise I have told my kids I want to be cremated and ashes spread at the ranch.
I think some people hold superstitions they are not always aware of. I think most everyone down deep inside are still encoded with primordial instincts. Instincts to kill other people to ensure food and water supply, shelter, providing for offspring, dominance of social groups and ensuring the strongest of the species reproduce. I think our societies have spent the last few hundred years deprogramming us to suppress those instincts. Some twist religion as a reason to act on primordial instincts while others play on the natural necessity aspect. The final solution of the Holocaust was not about religion but a primitive idea of a superior race of our species.
When did instincts that helped ensure our survival become unacceptable in our social and family groups? How does science define morality? Or should I say when did our species develop the self-awareness needed for morality to exist? What about love? Is there a scientific explanation for love or is it just a primitive instinct to keep the male around while raising offspring? Is there a scientific definition of love or is it just a state of mind that cannot be proved to exist nor not exist?
Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: Merdit
I have always wondered why anyone who believes that there is no God would spend their time trying to convince someone else to believe the same. It appears to me as irrational as my faith does to them, I suppose.
Merdit,
How many proselytizing atheists do you know?
What methods do they use to try to convince you to renounce your Christian faith and replace it with the principles of atheism?
*
I've only encountered two, including a previous sister-in-law. She's as crazy as they come.
I have always wondered why anyone who believes that there is no God would spend their time trying to convince someone else to believe the same. It appears to me as irrational as my faith does to them, I suppose.
Merdit,
How many proselytizing atheists do you know?
What methods do they use to try to convince you to renounce your Christian faith and replace it with the principles of atheism?
*
I've only encountered two, including a previous sister-in-law. She's as crazy as they come.
I know quite a few & they generally operate by badgering the living [beeep] out of people of faith in efforts to convince them they're wrong & the atheist if right. they usually belittle & ridicule them, surefire winning methods of convincing someone of the merits of your position.
FWIW, about the only type of person more stubborn in their beliefs than a hard core atheist that I've encountered so far is a calvanist.
The answer to the OP’s question is simple. “Blowback” An atheist will only try to talk someone out of their beliefs as a defense mechanism if they are or feel threatened. They are only attempting to remove the threat. Human nature.
Atheists do not have a belief. Belief is an action word, it requires doing something. Atheism is to religion as not playing golf is to sports.
Religion does not define morality. Atheists act as moral or immoral as anyone else. And if religious people only act decent because of the threat of punishment in the afterlife, then atheists are much more moral doing it simply out of empathy for their fellow man.
It is interesting to note that the question most asked is “why don’t you believe in God” when with such an overwhelming lack of evidence you would think it would be “why do you?”
Atheists do not have a belief. Belief is an action word, it requires doing something. Atheism is to religion as not playing golf is to sports.
Religion does not define morality. Atheists act as moral or immoral as anyone else. And if religious people only act decent because of the threat of punishment in the afterlife, then atheists are much more moral doing it simply out of empathy for their fellow man.
It is interesting to note that the question most asked is “why don’t you believe in God” when with such an overwhelming lack of evidence you would think it would be “why do you?”
IAyoteHNTR
New member
Originally Posted By: MCaryThe answer to the OP’s question is simple. “Blowback” An atheist will only try to talk someone out of their beliefs as a defense mechanism if they are or feel threatened. They are only attempting to remove the threat. Human nature.
Atheists do not have a belief. Belief is an action word, it requires doing something. Atheism is to religion as not playing golf is to sports.
Religion does not define morality. Atheists act as moral or immoral as anyone else. And if religious people only act decent because of the threat of punishment in the afterlife, then atheists are much more moral doing it simply out of empathy for their fellow man.
It is interesting to note that the question most asked is “why don’t you believe in God” when with such an overwhelming lack of evidence you would think it would be “why do you?”
^^^^^^This reply deserves multiple thumbs up!
Atheists do not have a belief. Belief is an action word, it requires doing something. Atheism is to religion as not playing golf is to sports.
Religion does not define morality. Atheists act as moral or immoral as anyone else. And if religious people only act decent because of the threat of punishment in the afterlife, then atheists are much more moral doing it simply out of empathy for their fellow man.
It is interesting to note that the question most asked is “why don’t you believe in God” when with such an overwhelming lack of evidence you would think it would be “why do you?”
^^^^^^This reply deserves multiple thumbs up!
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Originally Posted By: MCaryThe answer to the OP’s question is simple. “Blowback” An atheist will only try to talk someone out of their beliefs as a defense mechanism if they are or feel threatened. They are only attempting to remove the threat. Human nature.
Atheists do not have a belief. Belief is an action word, it requires doing something. Atheism is to religion as not playing golf is to sports.
Religion does not define morality. Atheists act as moral or immoral as anyone else. And if religious people only act decent because of the threat of punishment in the afterlife, then atheists are much more moral doing it simply out of empathy for their fellow man.
It is interesting to note that the question most asked is “why don’t you believe in God” when with such an overwhelming lack of evidence you would think it would be “why do you?”
Your opinion is wrong in so many ways that you appear to be misinformed, uninformed or just disingenuous. Take a look at the stated objectives on about any atheist website and you'll see my point.
In The Trouble with Atheism, Rod Liddle argued that atheists can be as dogmatic and intolerant as some adherents of religion. Liddle said, "History has shown us that it's not religion that's the problem, but any system of thought that insists that one group of people are inviolably in the right, whereas the others are in the wrong and must somehow be punished." Liddle argues, for example, that eugenic policies are the logical consequence of dogmatic adherence to Darwinism.
Atheists do not have a belief. Belief is an action word, it requires doing something. Atheism is to religion as not playing golf is to sports.
Religion does not define morality. Atheists act as moral or immoral as anyone else. And if religious people only act decent because of the threat of punishment in the afterlife, then atheists are much more moral doing it simply out of empathy for their fellow man.
It is interesting to note that the question most asked is “why don’t you believe in God” when with such an overwhelming lack of evidence you would think it would be “why do you?”
Your opinion is wrong in so many ways that you appear to be misinformed, uninformed or just disingenuous. Take a look at the stated objectives on about any atheist website and you'll see my point.
In The Trouble with Atheism, Rod Liddle argued that atheists can be as dogmatic and intolerant as some adherents of religion. Liddle said, "History has shown us that it's not religion that's the problem, but any system of thought that insists that one group of people are inviolably in the right, whereas the others are in the wrong and must somehow be punished." Liddle argues, for example, that eugenic policies are the logical consequence of dogmatic adherence to Darwinism.
Opinions are not wrong or right. They are opinions. I'm sure what you meant to say was that you disagree with my opinion.
Atheist websites are not atheists. Just as crazy right wing websites are not republicans or left wing looney websites are every liberal you might meet. (Don't assume you know which one I am) Atheists are people. No better or worst than other people.
Liddle did not come to an epiphany. Based on this quote along, his book should have been titled The Trouble with Dogma. Arguing that other than religious people can be dogmatic is DUH! Tell an environmentalist that the science is not in with regards to global warming if you need proof.
Atheist websites are not atheists. Just as crazy right wing websites are not republicans or left wing looney websites are every liberal you might meet. (Don't assume you know which one I am) Atheists are people. No better or worst than other people.
Liddle did not come to an epiphany. Based on this quote along, his book should have been titled The Trouble with Dogma. Arguing that other than religious people can be dogmatic is DUH! Tell an environmentalist that the science is not in with regards to global warming if you need proof.
Originally Posted By: Stu FarishI know quite a few & they generally operate by badgering the living [beeep] out of people of faith in efforts to convince them they're wrong & the atheist if right. they usually belittle & ridicule them, surefire winning methods of convincing someone of the merits of your position.
Stu,
Do you voluntarily associate with people like that?
*
Stu,
Do you voluntarily associate with people like that?
*
they're on just about any forum where people talk about these things.