Predator Masters using UBB.threads ™ Infopop Corporation.
PM Gear Moon & Weather

Welcome to the Predator Masters Forums
Be sure to visit the main Predator Master website at





PM Gear
PM Gear
PM Gear
The Official Predator Masters Search Engine
Search Predator Masters

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#3090562 - 09/10/17 09:55 PM Dead Hawk!
pyscodog Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 15777
Loc: okla
I'm grounds manager and rifle range chairman at our gun club. Today myself and a few members were at the club tearing down back boards for upcoming berm repairs when I looked in a shallow ditch and found a dead hawk. There is NO HUNTING of any kind on our club and I'm pretty sure the hawk was killed shortly before we started on the tear down. This really pizzed me off and I'm pretty sure its against the law to kill birds of prey in Oklahoma. We have an electronic gate that records who comes in and out with date and time but its still going to be hard to find out who killed the hawk. If we do, he just lost a $1000 membership and maybe be looking at a stiff fine. whats your thoughts about this? Personally I don't like it.
_________________________


Stay away from negative people, they have a problem for every solution.

Top
#3090598 - 09/10/17 11:23 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5833
Loc: stuck in a fence
hawks taste better and are more tender than eagle. get cooking.
_________________________
skeptical is what i am when told there is a dead coyote in certain far off pictures.

Top
#3090628 - 09/11/17 07:39 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17046
Loc: Missouri
It's a federal law (killing/possession of birds of prey) and the conservation LE types I've been around really get horned up about the chance to make a case in federal court. How you would prove who shot it is your problem.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

Top
#3091018 - 09/12/17 10:18 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 610
Loc: Prarie ghost
Post a note about it in the bulletin.... Don't worry about it unless it happens again. It's not worth the stress trying to prove who did what and when.
These things get hit all the time on the highway, don't let it ruin your week.


Edited by Catdog1 (09/12/17 10:19 PM)

Top
#3091048 - 09/13/17 12:52 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
Tex Adams Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 11/02/15
Posts: 65
Loc: Wyoming
When confronted by the game warden with just a mere whisper of evidence, alot of people end up telling on themselves. Knowing who all had come in most recently would give the wardens a place to start and I'm betting it wouldn't take them long to figure out who did it. In a situation like this though, my guess would be a younger person. If so, this kind of thing could really get them jammed up.



Tex
_________________________
=2

Top
#3091055 - 09/13/17 07:12 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: Catdog1]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17046
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Post a note about it in the bulletin.... Don't worry about it unless it happens again. It's not worth the stress trying to prove who did what and when.
These things get hit all the time on the highway, don't let it ruin your week.


I'm in this camp...
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

Top
#3091081 - 09/13/17 11:31 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
Plant.One Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 4902
Loc: Oakland County, MI
short of finding a witness, having the guilty party come forward or a very low attendance count for the previous couple of days... probably not much you can do but post a "someone was naughty" note around the club and move forward.

i suppose there's always the option as a future thing to install security camera's looking downrange toward the berms to prevent future issues too.

its awful that someone would do that and hopefully a little public shaming in the club news / bulletin board will prevent it from happening in the future.


i would use it as a "scared straight" moment where you make up some fliers to go along with the note in the club bulletin/newsletter that clearly state not only is it a club rules violation that will cost you your membership, but also the max legal penalty's (ie: is it a FELONY and cause you a permanent loss of your gun rights?) be posted - in bold, large print! - and hang up the fliers all over the place - clubhouse, shooting benches, parking areas, etc.

and then let the club gossip-grapevine do its work for you.
_________________________
All reloading info shared is based on my experiences in my guns. Follow safe reloading practice and work up loads from published minimum data.
This disclaimer will self destruct in 10 seconds.


Top
#3091138 - 09/13/17 05:24 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
pyscodog Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 15777
Loc: okla
Well......the shooter came forward and confessed to shooting the hawk. Bad part is he's a really good guy that used to be a club officer. Said he just had a moment of stupidity. (We have lots of wildlife on our club property and there is NO HUNTING or killing any game animals or wildlife on the property.) Now the club officials have to figure out what to do. It could go several different ways.
_________________________


Stay away from negative people, they have a problem for every solution.

Top
#3091159 - 09/13/17 07:36 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9466
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: pyscodog
Well......the shooter came forward and confessed to shooting the hawk. Bad part is he's a really good guy that used to be a club officer. Said he just had a moment of stupidity. (We have lots of wildlife on our club property and there is NO HUNTING or killing any game animals or wildlife on the property.) Now the club officials have to figure out what to do. It could go several different ways.


Just a little FYI....

If it goes to the Feds he's fried.
Any penalties imposed by the club will be the very least of his worries.
Not to mention the fact that the club officials now have knowledge of a USFWS violation concerning the killing of a protected raptor.

*
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

Top
#3091160 - 09/13/17 07:40 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17046
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By: pyscodog
Well......the shooter came forward and confessed to shooting the hawk. Bad part is he's a really good guy that used to be a club officer. Said he just had a moment of stupidity. (We have lots of wildlife on our club property and there is NO HUNTING or killing any game animals or wildlife on the property.) Now the club officials have to figure out what to do. It could go several different ways.


Painting yourself into a corner is never good...
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

Top
#3091163 - 09/13/17 07:51 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: GC]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9466
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: GC
Originally Posted By: pyscodog
Well......the shooter came forward and confessed to shooting the hawk. Bad part is he's a really good guy that used to be a club officer. Said he just had a moment of stupidity. (We have lots of wildlife on our club property and there is NO HUNTING or killing any game animals or wildlife on the property.) Now the club officials have to figure out what to do. It could go several different ways.


Painting yourself into a corner is never good...


Yep.
The Marble Courthouse is rather intimidating.

*
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

Top
#3091190 - 09/13/17 10:54 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
pyscodog Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 15777
Loc: okla
It was reported. He was given a six month suspension from the club. Now he will deal with the wardens. We have no control over that.
_________________________


Stay away from negative people, they have a problem for every solution.

Top
#3091200 - 09/13/17 11:43 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5833
Loc: stuck in a fence
Originally Posted By: pyscodog
Well......the shooter came forward and confessed to shooting the hawk. Bad part is he's a really good guy that used to be a club officer. Said he just had a moment of stupidity. (We have lots of wildlife on our club property and there is NO HUNTING or killing any game animals or wildlife on the property.) Now the club officials have to figure out what to do. It could go several different ways.


after posting that ^^^ on here there is not to many ways it can go. now you pretty much have to give all the info to the wildlife folks.

the guy is going to have some major financial loss and likely lose his hunting privileges for a good while.
_________________________
skeptical is what i am when told there is a dead coyote in certain far off pictures.

Top
#3091314 - 09/14/17 08:43 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
muskrat30 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 03/03/02
Posts: 3128
Loc: Wisconsin
No that it's all known, I'd step back & let the game wardens handle it.

Yes, shooting it at the gun range was wrong, illegal & all. One can go back in time when very few predators were protected, now we are almost awash in them. There was a time when hawks, owls, & most any predator had zero protection, may of even had a bounty. Look at all the hawks one sees now just driving the freeway.

No I'm not condoning illegal activity, I just don't see it as a guy who shot the one & only Bigfoot. He can work it out with the warden, the lesson will be a reminder to the rest of the club.

I had a Sharp-Shinned hawk hit our window a few years ago, knocked him out. Even though he liked to make a meal out of birds at our feeder I nursed him back & let him go.
_________________________
Veteran,NRA(life),RMEF,RGS,DU

Top
#3091391 - 09/15/17 04:01 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
bigdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 2490
Loc: Mesa, Az
When I was a Kid, IN the 50s It was imperative that you kill every hawk you could get in your sights. They were all chicken hawks then.
BD1
_________________________


NRA MEMBER
GUNS HAVE ONLY TWO
ENEMIES; RUST AND POLITICIANS

Top
#3091417 - 09/15/17 07:33 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: bigdog1]
ADK Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3786
Loc: North of Sodom,West of Gomorra...
Originally Posted By: bigdog1
When I was a Kid, IN the 50s It was imperative that you kill every hawk you could get in your sights. They were all chicken hawks then.
BD1



It was that way where I grew up to. There was a lot more small game than there is today. Just sayin!
_________________________
Don't call it the Democratic Party. There is nothing democratic about Democrats.

Top
#3091440 - 09/15/17 11:16 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
Infidel 762 Offline
Moderator

Registered: 04/04/14
Posts: 6988
Loc: Okie
Not sure which is more stupid; shooting the hawk or just openly coming forward and saying "I did it"

Top
#3091444 - 09/15/17 11:56 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: Infidel 762]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5833
Loc: stuck in a fence
Originally Posted By: Infidel 762
Not sure which is more stupid; shooting the hawk or just openly coming forward and saying "I did it"



glad to know there is at least one more guy thinking the same thing i do.
_________________________
skeptical is what i am when told there is a dead coyote in certain far off pictures.

Top
#3091449 - 09/16/17 12:54 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9466
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
Originally Posted By: Infidel 762
Not sure which is more stupid; shooting the hawk or just openly coming forward and saying "I did it"



glad to know there is at least one more guy thinking the same thing i do.


Uhhhhh.....

you can add one more guy...

grin
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

Top
#3091456 - 09/16/17 01:42 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
Plant.One Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 4902
Loc: Oakland County, MI
almost makes you wonder if he's taking the hit to protect someone who was with him at the time.

i'm thinking like kid, grandkid, neice/nephew, etc....
_________________________
All reloading info shared is based on my experiences in my guns. Follow safe reloading practice and work up loads from published minimum data.
This disclaimer will self destruct in 10 seconds.


Top
#3091474 - 09/16/17 09:44 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: fw707]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17046
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
Originally Posted By: Infidel 762
Not sure which is more stupid; shooting the hawk or just openly coming forward and saying "I did it"



glad to know there is at least one more guy thinking the same thing i do.


Uhhhhh.....

you can add one more guy...

grin


And another...
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

Top
#3091554 - 09/16/17 09:38 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
Bad Dawg Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 1084
Loc: Michigan, United States
Shooting a hawk is one thing (I don't condone it) but shooting a hawk on club property, well that's just sort of dumb.
_________________________
~The Yote Stops Here~

~Age and Wisdom Have Nothing In Common~

~I’m half deaf. If only I can become half blind, I’ll have found peace~

Top
#3091995 - 09/19/17 02:10 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
Ankeny Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 657
Loc: Shoshoni, Wyoming
If the guy knew he was had, stepping forward makes a lot more sense than keeping quiet. Judges tend to like that type of thing, as do LEOs. Works out better for all of those involved.

Top
#3092394 - 09/21/17 11:18 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: Infidel 762]
yotekiller47 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 800
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: Infidel 762
Not sure which is more stupid; shooting the hawk or just openly coming forward and saying "I did it"

More Stupid,coming forward and saying I did it . They would have to prove it. Plus who's to say it didn't die from natural causes.
_________________________
"Mind Over Matter, If You Don't Mind Then It Don't Matter"
" Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder. "

Top
#3092399 - 09/21/17 11:35 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: yotekiller47]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5833
Loc: stuck in a fence
Originally Posted By: yotekiller47
Plus who's to say it didn't die from natural causes.


seriously?

well i guess somebody could of shot it right after it died of starvation, rickets or a heart attack. lol
_________________________
skeptical is what i am when told there is a dead coyote in certain far off pictures.

Top
#3092479 - 09/21/17 07:32 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
yotekiller47 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 800
Loc: Tennessee
Or a heart attack, Crashed into the ditch, a fence, target poster. Still think the guy was stupid for saying he did it.


Edited by yotekiller47 (09/21/17 07:33 PM)
_________________________
"Mind Over Matter, If You Don't Mind Then It Don't Matter"
" Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder. "

Top
#3092613 - 09/22/17 12:28 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
why Online
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 810
Loc: md eastern shore
I think I have figured out what probably happened. There was a mouse on the berm behind the target and the hawk flew in to get it as a shooter fired. Just wasn't the hawks day. This is why we need see thru targets.

Top
#3092946 - 09/24/17 03:18 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
Ankeny Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 657
Loc: Shoshoni, Wyoming
Now that I think about it, owning up to a stupid mistake is kind of dumb. Now I know why the guy that hit my truck and took off didn't stop. Never did catch him so he did the smart thing. Besides, he was probably drunk to boot.

Top
#3092950 - 09/24/17 03:32 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
crapshoot Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 23234
Loc: Henderson,Nevada,USA
So, if I do something on accident that is against the law but I can get away with it if I just keep my trap shut, then I should go against my good morals and ethics and just keep my trap shut. Got it! thumbup1

Or I could just do the right thing and fess up like my Savior would want me to do. thumbup
_________________________
I carry a gun because a cop is to heavy.

Average response time for a 911 call is 10 min.
Average response time for a .45acp is 900FPS.

Remember, if you're not pissing off a liberal......You are one!
Ted Nugent

Top
#3096006 - 10/09/17 01:56 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: crapshoot]
yotehunter6 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 632
Loc: Reno NV
Originally Posted By: crapshoot
So, if I do something on accident that is against the law but I can get away with it if I just keep my trap shut, then I should go against my good morals and ethics and just keep my trap shut. Got it! thumbup1

Or I could just do the right thing and fess up like my Savior would want me to do. thumbup


Well said my friend.
_________________________
There are 3 types of men. 1. Those that learn by reading. 2. Those that learn by observing. 3. Those that just have to pee on the electric fence.

Top
#3096592 - 10/11/17 04:32 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: yotehunter6]
crapshoot Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 23234
Loc: Henderson,Nevada,USA
Originally Posted By: yotehunter6
Originally Posted By: crapshoot
So, if I do something on accident that is against the law but I can get away with it if I just keep my trap shut, then I should go against my good morals and ethics and just keep my trap shut. Got it! thumbup1

Or I could just do the right thing and fess up like my Savior would want me to do. thumbup


Well said my friend.



Good to see you around old friend.
_________________________
I carry a gun because a cop is to heavy.

Average response time for a 911 call is 10 min.
Average response time for a .45acp is 900FPS.

Remember, if you're not pissing off a liberal......You are one!
Ted Nugent

Top
#3098787 - 10/21/17 02:42 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: muskrat30]
hm1996 Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 17276
Loc: S. Texas
Quote:
He can work it out with the warden, the lesson will be a reminder to the rest of the club.


IDK! I'd give him a much better chance if he was dealing with a state GW. Most of those I've had contact with seem quite reasonalble......Feds, not so much (not based on personal contact but that of a close friend).

Regards,
hm
_________________________
If what's ahead scares you and what's behind hurts you, look up; He never fails you.

If My people will humble themselves, pray, seek My face & turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven & will forgive their sin & heal their land.




Top
#3110723 - 12/08/17 10:33 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
1100 Remington Man Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 161
Loc: IA USA
I would like to buy him a beer. That's my 2cents. Hawks are out of control and need thinning. Because you asked.
_________________________
11-87 12ga Trap
1100 3 inch Mag 12ga
1100 Diamond Anniversary 12ga
11-87 Quail Unlimited 20ga
1100 28ga Field

Top
#3113087 - 12/16/17 08:52 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: fw707]
orkan Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 1745
Loc: Western SD
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
Originally Posted By: Infidel 762
Not sure which is more stupid; shooting the hawk or just openly coming forward and saying "I did it"



glad to know there is at least one more guy thinking the same thing i do.


Uhhhhh.....

you can add one more guy...

grin
... and another.

Top
#3113267 - 12/17/17 02:14 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
varminter .223 Online
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 3193
Loc: south central Illinois
Whoever shot that Hawk saved the lives off a lot of rabbits. I'm not sure why anybody would care if someone shot a hawk. Yes it's illegal but so is having a couple beers and driving home. Someone is over-sensitive here in my opinion. I always hear stories about my dad his brother and my great-uncle driving around shooting them out the window. There were quail and rabbits back then too....


Edited by varminter .223 (12/17/17 02:17 PM)

Top
#3117877 - 12/31/17 11:00 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: varminter .223]
OKRattler Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 3669
Loc: Ok Panhandle
Originally Posted By: varminter .223
Whoever shot that Hawk saved the lives off a lot of rabbits. I'm not sure why anybody would care if someone shot a hawk. Yes it's illegal but so is having a couple beers and driving home. Someone is over-sensitive here in my opinion. I always hear stories about my dad his brother and my great-uncle driving around shooting them out the window. There were quail and rabbits back then too....

I'm more or less leaning towards this way of thinking. Would I shoot a hawk? No. Would I tell you if I did?...No!!!lol...But no seriously. Send that guy to the Panhandle. The hawks are thick here.

My dad works for a guy that has pen raised quail for guided hunts. It's crazy how many hawks kill by flying over until the quail fly up in the net and they grab them. A lot of times they just pull the heads off trying to get them through the net. If I were him I'd be getting a hold of the game warden to come trap some hawks or something. It's stupid how many birds he loses.


Edited by OKRattler (12/31/17 11:24 AM)
_________________________
I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to eat carrots.

Top
#3118420 - 01/01/18 10:36 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
Fursniper Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 1967
Loc: AZ
Here is an option nobody mentioned yet.

Have the state wildlife officer issue a citation to the guy for shooting the hawk. The officer can request leniency on the citation by the court since the defendant self reported the violation. The defendant pleads guilty. The judge has the defendant pay a small fine or none at all.

The end result is the law is enforced, the defendant did the right thing by self reporting, the defendant pays a small fine or none at all. The mental anguish and embarrassment the defendant receives from the club membership for shooting the hawk is likely going to be worse than receiving the citation. Lessons learned and life goes on.

_________________________
Introducing a new person to hunting and watching them be successful is more rewarding than being successful yourself.

Make time to create a conservationist.

Top
#3121561 - 01/10/18 09:39 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
bomberhat Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 137
Loc: WA
If it we're me I'd give him at least a one year membership for free.

Top
#3122196 - 01/12/18 08:23 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: varminter .223]
erict Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 420
Loc: near Albany, NY
Originally Posted By: varminter .223
I'm not sure why anybody would care if someone shot a hawk. Yes it's illegal but so is having a couple beers and driving home.


So as long as one disagrees with a law it's OK to break it?

Top
#3122374 - 01/13/18 02:26 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
Plant.One Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 4902
Loc: Oakland County, MI
seems to be - california has been doing it with its offical sanctuary citys for years now
_________________________
All reloading info shared is based on my experiences in my guns. Follow safe reloading practice and work up loads from published minimum data.
This disclaimer will self destruct in 10 seconds.


Top
#3123934 - 01/17/18 10:17 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
msinc Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 12/31/05
Posts: 1337
Loc: Maryland
Does the game warden handling this have the carcass of the dead hawk??? Because if he don't and he charges the guy he has no proof in court, other than the supposed "confession"....in which case the guys lawyer will get that thrown out in less time than it took to pull the trigger. Which raises another question...did the guy fess up to the club and they reported it or did the guy fess up to the warden after he was questioned? When it becomes a matter of law saying someone killed a hawk, even having someone say he killed a hawk and proving it actually happened beyond a reasonable doubt are entirely different things. We can talk about robbing a bank all we want, but a cop hearing it cant arrest us for robbery.
I wont discuss my thoughts about killing birds of prey, they don't matter, but I have to wonder why the club don't allow hunting of "game animals" on the property, but loses their mind when a hawk {killer of game animals} gets terminated???? No hunting??? I mean, what did the club think the hawk was doing there? Having a picnic with McDonald's food??? I understand that a club, and rightfully so, would not want to be associated with illegal activity. Still, it all boils down to what happened to the dead hawk??? No hawk carcass, more than likely no charges. The guy is stupid enough {probably didn't believe his own club members would turn him in} to tell on himself, I'd bet he's not nearly so stupid when it comes to paying that fine. Make no mistake about one thing, in this country laws are written heavily in favor of criminals.

Top
#3125584 - 01/23/18 03:05 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: erict]
varminter .223 Online
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 3193
Loc: south central Illinois
Originally Posted By: erict
Originally Posted By: varminter .223
I'm not sure why anybody would care if someone shot a hawk. Yes it's illegal but so is having a couple beers and driving home.


So as long as one disagrees with a law it's OK to break it?


Do you turn your buddy for driving home every time you have a beer or 3 with him. Do you turn yourself in every time you creep above the speed limit. Just because a group of politicians made a law does mean its really a crime in natures eyes. This thread is ridiculous. I think the guy having a coronary over a guy shooting a hawk has bigger issues than the guy that shot the hawk! Who cares! Im worried about myself, my family and my own life etc. I am not a do gooder problem causing tattle tail.


Edited by varminter .223 (01/23/18 03:09 PM)

Top
#3125670 - 01/23/18 07:12 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17046
Loc: Missouri
This thread started about a dead hawk and has evolved to beating a dead horse...
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

Top
#3135061 - 02/25/18 02:36 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: GC]
SubpaR Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/27/15
Posts: 447
Loc: Hays, KS
No, beating a dead hawk.

I've never shot one, but my shotgun has been enticed to swing many times. It's an Improved Cylinder or I might have stopped thinking about it

Top
#3136042 - 02/28/18 09:57 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
Crippleone Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/09/16
Posts: 16
Loc: Minnesota
Ok, this country is so bass acwards, it is legal to kill a baby in the womb, but a crime to shoot a hawk. How screwed up is this?

Top
#3136048 - 02/28/18 10:07 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
Crippleone Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/09/16
Posts: 16
Loc: Minnesota
I guess I’m not done yet, I hunt coyote here in Minnesota. Why, because they kill fawn,pheasant, grouse,rabbit, and small farm critters. Other than deer, don’t hawks kill about the same things ? Why again are they protected, what’s the reason ? They’re not an in dangerd species.


Edited by Crippleone (02/28/18 11:59 PM)

Top
#3202935 - 05/04/19 08:07 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
danno in va Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 06/24/18
Posts: 84
Loc: virginia
Disagree if you will, but it would've been best to take the high road and handle it internally. No good will come from the club eating its own young. IMHO turning him in smells of a bit of strong arming and justification in hiding behind the law. Forgiveness is ultimatelty more powerful than punishment, especially since the fellow is repentant. Consider how would you want it handled if'n you were in his shoes.

Top
#3202971 - 05/05/19 10:12 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5833
Loc: stuck in a fence
awwwww, been awhile, but i remember this thread.

wonder how much coin it ended up costing the guy? pyscodog know? the guy still a member of the club?
_________________________
skeptical is what i am when told there is a dead coyote in certain far off pictures.

Top
#3203055 - 05/06/19 12:07 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: danno in va]
Plant.One Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 4902
Loc: Oakland County, MI
Originally Posted By: danno in va
Disagree if you will, but it would've been best to take the high road and handle it internally. No good will come from the club eating its own young. IMHO turning him in smells of a bit of strong arming and justification in hiding behind the law. Forgiveness is ultimatelty more powerful than punishment, especially since the fellow is repentant. Consider how would you want it handled if'n you were in his shoes.


most of us arent dumb enough to end up in his shoes.


my grandpa always said if you're gonna be stupid you better learn to be tough - because stupid is supposed to be painful so you learn from it.

i'm all for forgiveness if someone makes an honest mistake, but this situation was a big double eff-up - one for doing it in the first place, and two for lying about it to try to cover it up.
_________________________
All reloading info shared is based on my experiences in my guns. Follow safe reloading practice and work up loads from published minimum data.
This disclaimer will self destruct in 10 seconds.


Top
#3203179 - 05/07/19 07:30 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
danno in va Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 06/24/18
Posts: 84
Loc: virginia
PO, i didn't see anything about lying. Instead, PD said he came forward and confessed and he is a really nice guy. Can you point out where the posts said he lied? It may often be true that life circumstances we generate can serve to turn us and we can be rescued from our own ways. But i have doubts that our judgements of "That'll learn ya, durn ya." are based on full knowledge to justify our hard hearts toward others. If he lied, then perhaps a more difficult lesson could benefit him, but your post is in error if he didn't. i'm willing to stand corrected and thank you for it...how about you? Dung can be a pretty good fertilizer.

Top
#3203211 - 05/08/19 10:37 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
Plant.One Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 4902
Loc: Oakland County, MI
i seem to recall there was suspicion that he was taking the fall for someone else.. which would be lying.

i dunno if that was ever proven out or not. its been a minute and i will admit i did not go back and read the whole thread over before my post.
_________________________
All reloading info shared is based on my experiences in my guns. Follow safe reloading practice and work up loads from published minimum data.
This disclaimer will self destruct in 10 seconds.


Top
#3204047 - 05/19/19 06:51 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
pyscodog Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 15777
Loc: okla
The member was suspended for 6 months. As far as I know there were no fines and not sure the wardens did anything. I know it may sound stiff but he turned himself in. We, as officers, didn't know who did it for sure. The club has rules. No hunting or killing wildlife is one of them and strictly enforced. Some of the officers wanted him kicked out of the club. There is a two years waiting list and a $1000 membership fee so expelling him would have been a costly action considering he would have lost it all. He was lucky this time.
_________________________


Stay away from negative people, they have a problem for every solution.

Top
#3204176 - 05/21/19 02:22 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: Fursniper]
ackleyman Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 8876
Loc: Hickville
Originally Posted By: Fursniper
Here is an option nobody mentioned yet.

Have the state wildlife officer issue a citation to the guy for shooting the hawk. The officer can request leniency on the citation by the court since the defendant self reported the violation. The defendant pleads guilty. The judge has the defendant pay a small fine or none at all.

The end result is the law is enforced, the defendant did the right thing by self reporting, the defendant pays a small fine or none at all. The mental anguish and embarrassment the defendant receives from the club membership for shooting the hawk is likely going to be worse than receiving the citation. Lessons learned and life goes on.



Great solution, but I think that is a pipe dream!


Danno in Va's post has a lot of Wisdom in it.


Edited by ackleyman (05/22/19 05:52 PM)

Top
#3204349 - 05/23/19 10:34 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
pyscodog Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 15777
Loc: okla
Basically it was handled internally. I can't say for sure the wardens ever were notified. He did his time and its over. We are elected officers and are expected to do our job same as the moderators here or an officer of the bank. Rules are rules. We had a member shooting incinerator rounds and set fire to the range. That is also a big no no. He denied doing it and I found loaded ammo on his bench. Should we have let that slide? He got a year suspension. Being an officer and having to enforce rules is a crappy job at times but we have over 500 members and some of them aren't the sharpest tool in the shed. We have 180 acres, two skeet fields, a wobble trap field, two fishing ponds, an archery range and rifle/pistol ranges from 5 yards to 300 yards and soon be able to shoot to 500. We also have 3 club houses. One bad accident or a fire would wipe us out. We just can't take any chances. Thats why we have rules and they need to be followed.


Edited by pyscodog (05/23/19 10:35 PM)
_________________________


Stay away from negative people, they have a problem for every solution.

Top
#3204709 - 05/28/19 01:08 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
ackleyman Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 8876
Loc: Hickville
It is amazing that the human race has existed for as long as it has. On our rifle range in S. CA that had 88 benches, on the far right, was a section for 50 yard shooting or 100 yard shooting. There was this hard headed fool that did not like to stop for Cease Fires. He would walk down range during live fire, and thought it was safe because he was at the end of the firing line.

Top
#3204725 - 05/28/19 04:35 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: ackleyman]
Coyotejunki Offline
PM senior

Registered: 04/03/04
Posts: 5166
Loc: MO
Originally Posted By: ackleyman
There was this hard headed fool that did not like to stop for Cease Fires.


I saw a guy up close get his brain housing group re-calibrated for that.
_________________________
futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis



Top
#3205358 - 06/06/19 05:33 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
Dultimatpredator Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 2790
Loc: Wisconsin
If the wardens were notified you would know because he’d still be squealing from the lashings, sleeping on his stomach after several spending several thousands of dollars on the fine. He would’ve lost his hunting privileges or had them suspended for quite a few years as well, guaranteed.


Edited by Dultimatpredator (06/06/19 05:34 PM)

Top
#3213564 - 09/29/19 03:49 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: bigdog1]
22 Chuck Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 08/11/17
Posts: 244
Loc: Montmorency Co, MI
If you ever see such a dead creature just keep on going. Dont take even a feather for your cap. One feather is just as bad as shooting the bird yourself.

Around here that also applies to turkeys.

Top
#3213770 - 10/01/19 02:21 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: 22 Chuck]
Plant.One Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 4902
Loc: Oakland County, MI
Originally Posted By: 22 Chuck
If you ever see such a dead creature just keep on going. Dont take even a feather for your cap. One feather is just as bad as shooting the bird yourself.

Around here that also applies to turkeys.


i know you cant have raptor feathers, but since when was it illegal to pickup turkey feathers? they're not on the Federal migritory list ....

i cant find anything specific about it on google - in fact the only references to turkey feathers i find say they're legal.
_________________________
All reloading info shared is based on my experiences in my guns. Follow safe reloading practice and work up loads from published minimum data.
This disclaimer will self destruct in 10 seconds.


Top
#3214135 - 10/05/19 12:43 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: 22 Chuck]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5833
Loc: stuck in a fence
Originally Posted By: 22 Chuck

Around here that also applies to turkeys.


there is no truth to that at all. good grief.
_________________________
skeptical is what i am when told there is a dead coyote in certain far off pictures.

Top
#3214196 - 10/05/19 09:15 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: 22 Chuck]
erict Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 420
Loc: near Albany, NY
Originally Posted By: 22 Chuck
If you ever see such a dead creature just keep on going. Dont take even a feather for your cap. One feather is just as bad as shooting the bird yourself.

Around here that also applies to turkeys.



Well, why let this thread die now?

I couldn't resist looking it up and learning something, so here is the List of protected migratory birds, and feathers, and pieces and parts... - long list that includes more birds than most could ever name, but turkey does not appear, nor things like ruffed grouse, pheasant, starlings.

This was from the US Fish & Wildlife Service website:

"Feathers are beautiful and remarkable objects. If you find feathers in nature, appreciate, study, and photograph them, but leave them where you found them. It is illegal to take them home.

The possession of feathers and other parts of native North American birds without a permit is prohibited by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA). This protects wild birds by preventing their killing by collectors and the commercial trade in their feathers, and extends to all feathers, regardless of how they were obtained. There is no exemption for molted feathers or those taken from road- or window-killed birds. More information on the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, and the list of MBTA-protected species can be found at: http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/regulationspolicies/mbta/mbtintro.html.

Exceptions do exist for the feathers of legally-hunted waterfowl or other migratory gamebirds, and for the use of feathers by Native Americans. For more information, see the FAQ page (http://www.fws.gov/lab/featheratlas/faq.php).

Individuals or institutions wishing to use bird feathers, bones, or whole specimens for educational or research purposes must apply for permits from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and their state wildlife or natural resource agency. See: http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/mbpermits.html."


.


Edited by erict (10/05/19 09:26 PM)

Top
#3214197 - 10/05/19 09:16 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: erict]
erict Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 420
Loc: near Albany, NY
...and while I'm at it - some non-natives appear to be exempt from the law: NY Governor Cuomo - Eagle feathergate


.

Top
#3245427 - 05/27/20 03:52 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: erict]
22 Chuck Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 08/11/17
Posts: 244
Loc: Montmorency Co, MI
Originally Posted By: erict
Originally Posted By: varminter .223
I'm not sure why anybody would care if someone shot a hawk. Yes it's illegal but so is having a couple beers and driving home.


So as long as one disagrees with a law it's OK to break it?


That is kinda the new law in many citizens minds..
Stated another way--horrah for us-the hexx with you.

Who cares! Im worried about myself, my family and my own life etc
Posted by varmiter 223 on page 2 or 3---

I wonder how you will feel when the 3 beer drinker half kills your wife/child?? Oh its his right--come on.


Edited by 22 Chuck (05/27/20 03:58 PM)

Top
#3246191 - 06/06/20 09:18 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
varminter .223 Online
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 3193
Loc: south central Illinois
You completely misinterpreted my post....what I was getting at was the person who reported the guy for shooting a hawk probably has been guilty of having a few beers and driving home. I don't drink and drive nor do I even drink and no I don't think drinking and driving is okay. I was referring to the fact that the accuser probably has been guilty of crimes himself but that individual didn't think about that and thanksit was okay because well it was him. In other words people are hypocrites.

Laws like drinking and driving have nothing to do with laws like shooting a hawk.
Who was harmed by shooting a hawk? Who could be harmed by shooting a hawk? I personally have never shot a hawk but I know people who do and the only reason I don't is not because I don't think they need shot, it's because it is illegal and I follow the game laws. So don't get on here and grace us with your banter about how I am and what I do because you don't know.
There are laws against shooting Hawks because some politicians haven't addressed the fact that there's too many of them not because it harms anyone.
Let's remember politicians approve of abortion too but it doesn't make that right.
Just for the record drunk drivers pizz me off!
As far as part about me worrying about me and my own what I'm telling you is that I have a habbit of minding my own business. Imo that's a habbit more people need.


Edited by varminter .223 (06/06/20 10:09 PM)

Top
#3272139 - 02/26/21 01:39 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: bigdog1]
22 Chuck Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 08/11/17
Posts: 244
Loc: Montmorency Co, MI
Read Elmers book HEXX I WAS THERE by Elmer Keith and how eagles were treated in the early 1900s...

Top
#3272141 - 02/26/21 01:53 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: 22 Chuck]
Plant.One Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 4902
Loc: Oakland County, MI
Originally Posted By: 22 Chuck
Read Elmers book HEXX I WAS THERE by Elmer Keith and how eagles were treated in the early 1900s...


which said treatment probably has something to do with the current protections on raptors and such

just sayin...
_________________________
All reloading info shared is based on my experiences in my guns. Follow safe reloading practice and work up loads from published minimum data.
This disclaimer will self destruct in 10 seconds.


Top
#3272267 - 02/27/21 04:04 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
tnshootist Online
PM senior

Registered: 11/26/10
Posts: 7736
Loc: East Tn
Wonder who kills more game a hunter who gets out when he can or a hawk that makes his living out there every day all year long.
Red Tails are beautiful birds. I watch them almost every day hunt the fields around my house.
They do eat lots of mice. I think thats because they have already ate the Quail and Rabbits.

I don't shoot them but I don't like there being so many now. If they find Quail they will hunt them till none are left.I liked to eat Quail now and then but I have not seen a bird in several years.

I don't guess anyone has a good hawk recipe they would share? No I guess not.
_________________________
"Money won't buy happiness, but you can suffer a better grade of misery in a nicer part of town." Brother Bill Samples


Top
#3272277 - 02/27/21 05:09 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
OKRattler Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 3669
Loc: Ok Panhandle
Last year I counted over 50 hawks flying over a plowed up field. He didn't do much damage to the population. That guy needs to come here and target practice.

My buddy had a covey of blue quail coming into his yard to get a drink every day for a while and the hawks finally wiped them all out. He enjoyed having them around and would sit at the window and watch them every day. If nobody will say it I will. Hawks suck.

Game and Fish need to open up a season on them even if it's just for a weekend. They do just as much harm as they do good. The pheasant and quail population doesn't need one more predator out there.


Edited by OKRattler (02/27/21 05:12 PM)
_________________________
I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to eat carrots.

Top
#3272978 - 03/07/21 09:32 AM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
varminter .223 Online
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 3193
Loc: south central Illinois
I hear they are good to eat. White breast meat.

Top
#3273053 - 03/07/21 10:08 PM Re: Dead Hawk! [Re: pyscodog]
Heymartay Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 451
Loc: Montana
I shot and eagle. It was a 300 yd par 4 and popped a9 iron in for a 2 from @100 yds.
_________________________
If Democrats didn’t have double standards they’d have no standards at all. You will never see me in crocs!

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >




© Predator Masters™, All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.