#2969695 - 06/13/16 09:39 PM
A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Let's have some fun and hone and perhaps improve our skills... What I propose is that we have a little friendly online competition. Let's shoot a standard handgun drill, post our target pictures and results for comparison. The drill I'd like to start with is THE DOT TORTURE DRILL. This drill requires 50 rounds of ammunition and usually begins at 3 measured yards. This first time wouldn't have to be timed fire. Let's use our defensive pistols, not some specialized gamer gun. There is a version of DOT TORTURE for semi-auto and revolver. I'll post a link of the drill specifics and where you can print a target and a video of a guy shooting the drill and explaining the stages. It's just for fun, the drill will expose your handgun weaknesses. Which is good, it gives you a purpose and a goal when you go to the range. It will improve your skills. We could give ourselves a few weeks to shoot and post. If we like it, maybe try a twist on this drill or move to a different drill for fun. Any interest? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mBujg4IRVp8http://pistol-training.com/drills/dot-torture
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2969705 - 06/13/16 10:15 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Sponsor
Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 5349
Loc: AZ
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I might have to drag out one of my 45's. Other than the weak hand I think I can do it.
Greg
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#2969716 - 06/13/16 10:30 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Yeah, weak hand is my downfall. Which is why I need to shoot this, ya just never know, right? I'm going to try to shoot and post results by the end of the week.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2969729 - 06/13/16 11:42 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member
Registered: 01/20/15
Posts: 721
Loc: Yukon, OK-ish
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With my wacky schedule, I will try and shoot / post by Christmas.
Thanks for putting this out there, I am sure that we can all use a little trigger time.
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#2969773 - 06/14/16 09:17 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: Huckleberry75]
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Die Hard Member III
Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 2878
Loc: Central NC
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I'm game. Post pics in this thread? We can print on 24x36 for bigger targets, right Seriously, is it supposed to be 11x17 (appears to be in video) or 8.5x11? Changes size substantially.
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Yeah, the sleight of my hand is now a quick-pull trigger
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#2969777 - 06/14/16 09:48 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: coleridge]
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Die Hard Member III
Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 2463
Loc: NW, Wi
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I am game, and I need it. I just saw the results from my last GSSF Match! Not having time to practice sure showed up there. I am with Coleridge...I need a bigger target, too.  I will see if I can get on the range and run the drill a few times. I will probably cheat a little. I EDC a G27, but I have a G23 as my "truck gun". I will see which one gives me a prayer of completing the drill, in the practice rounds, and go with that pistol.  Squeeze
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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
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#2969798 - 06/14/16 11:04 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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I plan on just printing on a regular piece of 8.5"X11" paper. That makes the dots 2". Remember we start at 3 yards/9 feet and with no time restrictions. Let's give it an honest go and see how we do.
We can post results right here and keep this thread fresh. Maybe a Mod could make it a sticky thread and keep it up top. I'd like to do this as a monthly thing changing either the drill or some component of the drill for a fresh challenge each month. I think we could have a lot of fun with it.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2969808 - 06/14/16 11:24 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Seasoned Member
Registered: 06/03/12
Posts: 134
Loc: TEXAS
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What a great drill! I'll have to give it a go when I can find the pistol range empty so no one will know just how out of pratice I am. Regards
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ENDOWMENT MEMBER NRA LIFE MEMBER TEXAS STATE RIFLE ASSOCIATION MEMBER MARINE CORPS LEAGUE MEMBER SECOND ADMENDMENT FOUNDATION
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#2969813 - 06/14/16 11:31 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member III
Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 2878
Loc: Central NC
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Yeah, I was thinking any printer can do 8.5x11 but not everyone has ability to print 11x17 (although I'm pretty sure that's what guy in vidio was shooting). Likely more entries if we go standard...
It does make a different though. About 2" circle on 8.5x11 & about 2.6" on 11x17. Doesn't sound like that much of a difference, but in terms of area; your looking at about a 70% bigger target on a 11x17. So guys don't feel bad when you don't do as good as guy on video (but most will have an advantage on their week hand from him if you noticed...).
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Yeah, the sleight of my hand is now a quick-pull trigger
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#2969819 - 06/14/16 11:53 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Ok, let's use a standard sheet of 8.5" x 11" paper.
A question before anyone gets out to shoot... Do we shoot from the holster or from low ready? Obviously if it's a carry gun shooting from the holster gives you good practice. But if it's a nightstand gun...? Further, to make the drill easier for anyone to get involved with not everyone will always have a holster for a particular gun at a particular time. To keep things on the level shooting from low ready might be best as the standard we all keep.
Now having said that, since there is no time limit if a guy wants to use his carry holster then I think by all means do so. Really shouldn't make a difference since we aren't timing anything. I just don't want to exclude anyone because they don't have a holster right at this time. Thoughts?
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2969868 - 06/14/16 03:06 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member III
Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 2463
Loc: NW, Wi
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Low Ready sounds good to me, but I have Blackhawk CQCs for all of my pistols, so holstered works too. So what is the exact courses of fire? 3 yards, 50 rounds, described in the drill, not timed, then what? Again at 3 yards timed? And third course of fire at 5 yards? Or just one course of fire, at 3 yards, not timed? Need clarification. I might have to consider a different pistol, if the round count climbs, as the G27 and the G23, are not kind to my hands, after a 100 rounds or so. I am getting soft. Squeeze
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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
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#2969870 - 06/14/16 03:12 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member III
Registered: 01/04/15
Posts: 3152
Loc: Southwest Virginia, USA
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I'm down for it if I can find a printer. I'd like to try it with my Kimber Micro that I just got a couple months ago, but all I have for it is a pocket sleeve holster. I've got a couple other handguns I can run it with also.
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Rich man rolls the dice, Poor man pays the price!
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#2969897 - 06/14/16 04:55 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: Squeeze]
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Die Hard Member III
Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 2878
Loc: Central NC
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Low Ready sounds good to me, but I have Blackhawk CQCs for all of my pistols, so holstered works too. So what is the exact courses of fire? 3 yards, 50 rounds, described in the drill, not timed, then what? Again at 3 yards timed? And third course of fire at 5 yards? Or just one course of fire, at 3 yards, not timed? Need clarification. I might have to consider a different pistol, if the round count climbs, as the G27 and the G23, are not kind to my hands, after a 100 rounds or so. I am getting soft. Squeeze I think GC intends one "drill" at 3 yards. The instructions call for 50 shots at the one piece of paper (10 dots). That would be end of it. Enter other or same pistol as many times as you want.
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Yeah, the sleight of my hand is now a quick-pull trigger
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#2969906 - 06/14/16 05:34 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member with a vengeance
Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 4187
Loc: Northern IN
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I will try it. The instructions are under the dots when you print it off. Dots are exactly 2" on 8x11
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#2970402 - 06/16/16 02:43 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: Widow maker 223]
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Die Hard Member III
Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 2878
Loc: Central NC
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Here is my first attempt. Used what I usually have near; a G21SF, with Wilson Combat barrel. I know this wasn’t supposed to be timed but for the sake of the exercise; I tried to “hurry” through the drills that I felt where supposed to be fast. Got a little too fast on some, likely could have been faster on some too. Definitely learned few things… #1 a measured 9 feet is CLOSE #2 Fix the target properly – I was in a hurry and just poked hole with knife at top & hung the cardboard from a a sapling limb. My first dot, every shot shook the tree & was still waving during the next shot. Kind of looks dumb, my slow fire group being about the worst, but alas; I have an excuss  . #3 When you’re getting confident & start shooting faster than you should, you get misses (see dot #4 fast transition from 3-4). Started getting wild in the doubletap drill also (6/7), but for some reason the second target there was much better??? #4 I’m about embarrassed how poor my strong hand is from draw… #5 I’m pretty d@mn good with my week hand  (however, here I did not hurry at all, took plenty of time expecting it to be extra poor). Still, it looks like I need practice grip week hand. My POI is obvious right. #6 It sucks having to pick up magazines on 9/10 #7 I recommend not doing it in mid 90 degree heat. I about melted. Sweat dripping! Especially after picking up brass (I'm getting old). Anyway, here is target. There are few double holes that are hard to see but they are there.  If I get a little time I’ll try it again for sure… It was fun & a bit educating.
_________________________
Yeah, the sleight of my hand is now a quick-pull trigger
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#2970420 - 06/16/16 04:26 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Well done! Yeah, 3 yards is close but it still puts a bit of pressure on you. If you want to make it tougher then a guy can time his shooting strings or move the target out. Moving that out to 5 and then 7 makes the drill considerably tougher and at 10 yards it's considered a real bear. Especially if timed.
I gathered some ammo and targets together but it's 99* here right now. I'd like to shoot it this weekend but my son and I have a fishing trip on Saturday and the family is having a Fathers Day BBQ get together Sunday. It might be next week before I can get to the range. I plan to shoot my Shield and M&P 9mm's.
I think you shot well, thanks for getting out and participating and posting your results!
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2970432 - 06/16/16 05:09 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member III
Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 2878
Loc: Central NC
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Thanks. Some where worse than I expected, surprisingly some where better too. Yeah, even though it's not necessarily timed. If you don't at least push; it's really the same test at each dot. I did use a holster also (but agree not a necessity for everyone). The heat is brutal, but looks like a cooler weekend. I'm try to attempt it again with my G34. I shoot it a lot more & have hopes I can get faster & still have 50 hits with it  . May try it few others if time allows.
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Yeah, the sleight of my hand is now a quick-pull trigger
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#2970559 - 06/17/16 01:35 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Retired Moderator
Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 6992
Loc: In the right lane
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I made it a sticky.
_________________________
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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#2970570 - 06/17/16 05:59 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Thank you sir! C'mon handgunners, let's post up those targets!
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2970571 - 06/17/16 06:16 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Former Moderator
Registered: 12/20/05
Posts: 19624
Loc: East Central FL
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Looks like fun, as well as good practice...
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Nature shares her secrets not to those that hurry by, but to those that walk with a happy heart and a seeing eye...
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#2970684 - 06/17/16 08:10 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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It's a skill drill that exercises the necessary handgun skills ...
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2970918 - 06/19/16 07:49 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member II
Registered: 12/08/04
Posts: 1127
Loc: Greenwood Ark.
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This should be interesting...but I'm in. 
_________________________
“We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.” – Ronald Reagan
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#2971516 - 06/21/16 11:56 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Ok, I squeaked this in today. It was hot today at 94*. I only had enough time to shoot this one target with my 9mm. I did do a half azz quick warm up run with my little Ruger SR22 .22 LR before my 9mm run. I shot that poorly and it wasn't a confidence booster. I had three line cutters with the M&P 9mm. Not happy about that and felt I should have shot it cleaner. It is what it is, loose focus and you're out of the group. Weak hand is always a struggle. I shot from a holster and shot pretty quick on the double targets. I will shoot it again! It is fun and does sharpen your skills. I want to shoot my Shield and Glock on the drill also. For what it's worth here it is... 
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2972146 - 06/24/16 07:08 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Hello? Nobody shooting?
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2972199 - 06/24/16 10:52 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member III
Registered: 01/04/15
Posts: 3152
Loc: Southwest Virginia, USA
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Still need to print some targets. Hopefully tomorrow at work I'll get a chance.
_________________________
Rich man rolls the dice, Poor man pays the price!
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#2974929 - 07/07/16 07:50 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member II
Registered: 12/08/04
Posts: 1127
Loc: Greenwood Ark.
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My plate has been full...looks like maybe next week before I get to shoot. 
_________________________
“We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.” – Ronald Reagan
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#2975038 - 07/07/16 03:56 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Thanks, I was hoping for more participation... 
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2975043 - 07/07/16 04:20 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: coleridge]
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Die Hard Member III
Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 3361
Loc: California
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Here is my first attempt. Used what I usually have near; a G21SF, with Wilson Combat barrel. I know this wasn’t supposed to be timed but for the sake of the exercise; I tried to “hurry” through the drills that I felt where supposed to be fast. Got a little too fast on some, likely could have been faster on some too. Definitely learned few things… #1 a measured 9 feet is CLOSE #2 Fix the target properly – I was in a hurry and just poked hole with knife at top & hung the cardboard from a a sapling limb. My first dot, every shot shook the tree & was still waving during the next shot. Kind of looks dumb, my slow fire group being about the worst, but alas; I have an excuss  . #3 When you’re getting confident & start shooting faster than you should, you get misses (see dot #4 fast transition from 3-4). Started getting wild in the doubletap drill also (6/7), but for some reason the second target there was much better??? #4 I’m about embarrassed how poor my strong hand is from draw… #5 I’m pretty d@mn good with my week hand  (however, here I did not hurry at all, took plenty of time expecting it to be extra poor). Still, it looks like I need practice grip week hand. My POI is obvious right. #6 It sucks having to pick up magazines on 9/10 #7 I recommend not doing it in mid 90 degree heat. I about melted. Sweat dripping! Especially after picking up brass (I'm getting old). Anyway, here is target. There are few double holes that are hard to see but they are there.  If I get a little time I’ll try it again for sure… It was fun & a bit educating. Probably shouldn't use new priority boxes posted on the internet, they can fine you for that. 
_________________________
A continual circulation of lies among those who are not much in the way of hearing them contradicted, will in time pass for their truth; the crime lies not in the believer but the inventor. Thomas Paine
Ignorance is not okay
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#2976101 - 07/11/16 08:09 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member III
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 3194
Loc: southeast texas
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Need to swing by the store and get aome shells. Shot up all my spares last night. Im in.
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For we wrestle not against flesh and blood , but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness on this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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#2976124 - 07/11/16 09:51 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Good deal, looking forward to a few more shooters!
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2976126 - 07/11/16 09:56 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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I just looked back at my target. I was really focused on dot 10 so as to not screw up right at the end. If I would have been that focused on the other targets I may not have three line cutters. It seems easy enough... until it ain't.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2977851 - 07/18/16 12:23 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: woodguru]
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Die Hard Member III
Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 2878
Loc: Central NC
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Probably shouldn't use new priority boxes posted on the internet, they can fine you for that. For full disclaimer... it was already used... Trying to find re-use/recycle & help out the environment. I was waiting for some kind of going "postal" comment.
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Yeah, the sleight of my hand is now a quick-pull trigger
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#2982415 - 08/03/16 09:37 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member II
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1602
Loc: Indiana
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I got out and shot a target at three yards with my Colt Wiley Clapp CCO in .45 ACP this evening. I shot from low ready engaging and disengaging my thumb safety between shots on targets where I was to draw and fire.  Will move back to seven yards on my next run. Mosquitos were becoming a real problem.
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#2982418 - 08/03/16 09:58 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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That's a good looking target! Good shooting, and thanks for participating.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2982496 - 08/04/16 08:43 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member II
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1602
Loc: Indiana
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That's a good looking target! Good shooting, and thanks for participating. Thanks GC.. Thank you for putting this out there. Good reason to dirty up a pistol or two.
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#2983218 - 08/06/16 09:15 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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The word is that if you can clean this drill from 10 yards from a holster and under time constraints you're a bonafide pistolaro. I tend to believe that. 
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2983219 - 08/06/16 09:17 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Right now I'm in the middle of a fairly good sized remodel project around the house. As soon as I can get time to catch my breath I intend to get my Shield out and see how I manage that little gun.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2983272 - 08/07/16 08:57 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member II
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1602
Loc: Indiana
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I think I have some good ole Star .38 special 148 grain wadcutters left over from the revolver days. I may bring out my S&W mod 19 and try it out next.
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#2983301 - 08/07/16 12:00 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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I'm currently out of .38/.357 bullets to load up. Been meaning to get some ordered. I usually have a decent stockpile of .38 158 gr. SWC loaded.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#2991548 - 09/06/16 04:23 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member III
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 2297
Loc: Idaho
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I need to try this. Not sure if I can do the weak hand, my shields trigger pull is a bit heavy guess I will find out.
_________________________
Professional Milk Jug Hunter.
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#2991552 - 09/06/16 04:35 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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That's why we train... figure out our weak areas and work to improve those areas. Weak hand is a trouble area for me.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3003795 - 10/31/16 02:06 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Junior Member
Registered: 11/22/09
Posts: 44
Loc: N.D. USA
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It is definitely an eye opening drill. I haven't been able to get 100% on it yet. I was doing it at 5 yards though.
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#3003810 - 10/31/16 07:14 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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It is a really good indicator of where you're weak. Add a couple yards like you did and it makes it considerably tougher.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3030457 - 01/10/17 09:17 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Junior Member
Registered: 12/22/15
Posts: 25
Loc: Ohio
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I'm going to try in the near future. Need to figure out when and which range i'm going to go to this time. It's expensive when you don't have your own range...
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#3030682 - 01/10/17 06:21 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Take some pics!
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3047776 - 02/20/17 10:56 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Shield 9mm @ 3 lasered yards. The guy I was shooting with insisted on time strings for each stage that he made up as we went along. He was shooting a steel 5" 1911, the time limits put the pressure on my stubby 9mm.  Weak hand got me again, two out. 
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3087586 - 08/23/17 07:51 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Any interest in a new drill?
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3092145 - 09/20/17 09:37 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member II
Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 1543
Loc: Kansas
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I'm going to have my entire department shoot this at the next session. We alternate tactical and fundamental at each session. I think this will really wake some of my guys up. Thanks...!!!
_________________________
Put a can on that thing... Lets be civilized..!
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#3092294 - 09/20/17 07:43 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Let us know how it turns out.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3143625 - 04/06/18 06:10 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member III
Registered: 11/20/11
Posts: 3268
Loc: Ohio, Ohio
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This would be a lot of fun. I will pass it on to a Ranger friend. Last year I talked them in to an old car with dummies. They had a lot of fun. Good bunch of young men. I carry fried Chicken and Bud light in after things got put away.
_________________________
Writing in this blog is like guessing, the color of a pig in a poke. You are wrong a lot more than you are right. "No one plans to fail; we only fail to plan!" NRA Life Member
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#3144707 - 04/13/18 09:02 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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I'll post a new drill that doesn't require the participants to print off a specific target...
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3144986 - 04/16/18 03:53 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member
Registered: 02/09/17
Posts: 773
Loc: Massachusetts
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Good stuff GC. I liked the videos enough to subscribe to that channel Thanks
_________________________
Savage 10 XP Predator .223 60gr. Soft point Mossberg 935 3 1/2" Dead Coyote "T"
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#3144987 - 04/16/18 06:08 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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You're welcome, those guys do a really good job of describing the drill and explaining the emphasis of the exercise without coming off as macho tactical DB's. The 5X5 Drill is a really easy one to set up. A 5" circle on a piece of copy paper or paper plate is easy to do. There are also ways to use a revolver on a couple of those drills and that makes it easy for all shooters to participate. El Presidente can use paper plates for targets. A couple of other guys that have some good drills are Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn.
It would be nice to get some feedback in this thread from participating shooters. When we share our experiences hopefully that can motivate others to do the same.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3149472 - 05/26/18 07:58 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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New Member
Registered: 12/19/09
Posts: 16
Loc: USA
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Is there a trick to posting a pic? I can’t seem to do it for some reason.
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#3149585 - 05/27/18 06:41 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3149586 - 05/27/18 06:42 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Worked for me?
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3168004 - 10/21/18 11:37 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Seasoned Member
Registered: 10/18/18
Posts: 142
Loc: So Cal
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I've visited this thread a few times. Maybe this will help: this drill is target practice. I'd like to very politely recommend incorporating tactical shooting drills that are designed to save lives.
Reality is most of us have no access to tactical handgun courses. But we can make our own. All we need are a few target stands and simulated barriers. Set up three targets. The farthest should be no more than 15'. Secure your handgun, sprint a hundred yards, engage your targets while hightailing it to simulated barriers, and figure out when a tactical retreat (running the heck outta Dodge) can be deployed.
The vast majority of gunfights occur at 10' and less. They occur in a heartbeat. Situational awareness, tactical awareness, tactical response (getting the heck outta a bad guy's sight picture), muscle memory, instinctive shooting (point shooting), and will to survive will determine outcome.
Target shooting is fun. However, it should never be confused with tactical shooting. They are vastly different concepts.
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#3168075 - 10/21/18 08:00 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Skill drills are not target shooting.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3183131 - 01/05/19 05:45 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Nobody been skill drilling? You lazy bastiges might not live to regret that some day.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3189857 - 01/31/19 08:26 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Seasoned Member
Registered: 10/18/18
Posts: 142
Loc: So Cal
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GC, A good rule of thumb that might help you distinguish between target shooting and tactical handgun shooting: if you're shooting from a stationary position, you're target shooting. If you're shooting while you're moving or from behind a barrier while exposing only enough of you to return fire (avoiding taking rounds), you're tactically training. This is a pretty good video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2hn6AVCVroSearch engine, "Law enforcement tactical shooting," for edification. I wish you the best.
Edited by EMP3 (01/31/19 08:27 AM)
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#3189870 - 01/31/19 09:37 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Oh wow... Are you a LEO or part of the shooting military?
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3192619 - 02/13/19 04:25 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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EMP3 gets a ticket for hit and run posting.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3195686 - 03/01/19 11:13 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: EMP3]
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Moderator
Registered: 04/04/14
Posts: 7156
Loc: Okie
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A good rule of thumb that might help you distinguish between target shooting and tactical handgun shooting: if you're shooting from a stationary position, you're target shooting. If you're shooting while you're moving or from behind a barrier while exposing only enough of you to return fire (avoiding taking rounds), you're tactically training. This is a pretty good video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2hn6AVCVroSearch engine, "Law enforcement tactical shooting," for edification.  Your input seems doltish when you post a link that completely contradicts what you are trying to say. Maybe you should contact the SIG SAUER Academy and enlighten them with your tactical wisdom. Refer them to the correct search engine for future references and "edifications"
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#3197811 - 03/14/19 01:16 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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New Member
Registered: 03/09/19
Posts: 17
Loc: CT
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EMP3, That is very good!!
Some years back,NYPD published SOP 9 which,basically,was a study of 6,000 shootings over a ten year period of time. The results basically were this; 1-all incidents occurred less than 21 feet and with the vast majority 10 feet or less (mostly 3 feet) 2-no reloads were used 3- most,if not all incidents used 2-3 shots
4-and took less than 5 seconds
My experience is three tours in 'Nam and 40 years as an LEO.
Top Dog
4-
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#3197842 - 03/14/19 05:41 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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SOP 9 is data gathered from 1970-1979. Things may have changed just a bit here and there.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3197945 - 03/15/19 12:07 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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New Member
Registered: 03/09/19
Posts: 17
Loc: CT
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GC, Yes,I am quite sure that things have changed but I still think that the distances are quite the same.
The main thing is to practice as often as you can,and range rules permitting,as realistic as possible.
Top Dog
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#3198486 - 03/19/19 11:31 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: Top Dog]
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Moderator
Registered: 04/04/14
Posts: 7156
Loc: Okie
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EMP3, That is very good!!
Some years back,NYPD published SOP 9 which,basically,was a study of 6,000 shootings over a ten year period of time. The results basically were this; 1-all incidents occurred less than 21 feet and with the vast majority 10 feet or less (mostly 3 feet) 2-no reloads were used 3- most,if not all incidents used 2-3 shots
4-and took less than 5 seconds
My experience is three tours in 'Nam and 40 years as an LEO.
Top Dog What? You are saying that out of 6,000 shootings they all occurred at less than 21 feet? I googled SOP 9 and all those statistics involve LEO shootings. It is a completely different scenario when almost all CCW holders don't open carry. Yes; all training is good but saying the drill the OP posted is just target shooting? I fear having to shoot an intruder at 3 yards in the low lite hallway of my home, before bounding thru obstacles with my everyday carry gun like I am in Iraq. You are not the only one who has deployed, thus I am sure you appreciate the tactical advantage of carrying concealed.
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#3198554 - 03/20/19 04:57 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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I'm still waiting to be edified?
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3201221 - 04/13/19 04:46 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 749
Loc: central washington
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My local range has metal flip targets and stuff to hide behind. Great for defensive practice. Takes 1 round from my 40 to flip them, but a fast double tap from my 9mm to get them over the top.
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practice practice practice! know that scope and rifle
Totals for 2018 season Coyotes-----0 Bobcats-----0 Bigfoot-----0 Chupacabra--0
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#3209095 - 08/02/19 01:24 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Are y'all still challenged? Or are you skill building?
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3209232 - 08/05/19 12:12 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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I went skill building this evening and shot like crap. Some days are better than others...
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3226707 - 01/05/20 09:09 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member II
Registered: 02/04/07
Posts: 1569
Loc: Lincolnton, NC
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Thanks GC. I'm gonna try this out.
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#3226714 - 01/05/20 09:26 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Have fun!
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3227715 - 01/11/20 07:25 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM senior
Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 6186
Loc: Nebraska
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I just finally read this thread a couple weeks ago and have been trying it. I was pretty rusty but today was my best effort with 5 shots outside the circles. Thanks for putting this out there.
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photobucket sucks
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#3227727 - 01/11/20 08:20 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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The more we shoot with a purpose, the better we gradually become. For me, even as much as I enjoy shooting, life gets busy and I struggle to find time to go grind out some skill drills. It's no different than a diet or exercising, you have to be disciplined enough to set some time aside. Interestingly, when I do go shooting I usually feel more relaxed and refreshed when I'm done. That transcends into other things and is a nice bonus.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3234123 - 02/16/20 08:31 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Shot some drills today. Shot the 5x5 drill, the 5 yard roundup drill and the FBI Q Course. Shot a 95% on the FBI qualification with an M&P 2.0 Compact 9mm. I need to tweak the sights slightly, it shoots a touch left.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3235387 - 02/23/20 04:37 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Shot the Casino Drill and the FBI Q Course today. Shot the Casino five times and cleaned it three times. The two times I ran over time was because I shot it out of sequence once and got sloppy and had two close misses on another run. Penalties add one second per offense and pushed me over the 21 second par time.
The FBI Qualification went 94% and 93% on the two runs I shot. My son shot 90% twice. Again I was shooting the M&P 2.0 Compact 9mm.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3246976 - 06/19/20 09:25 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Nobody doing any defensive handgun shooting... ever?
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3266354 - 01/16/21 01:41 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member
Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 813
Loc: Pennsylvania
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Ive got a pack of those dot torture targets. They certainly show your weaknesses quickly. Havent done it in a couple years, definitely a little rusty
_________________________
Varmint Rifle Stable -Sako 85S SS Varmint .22-250 Rem Vortex Gen II Viper PST 5-25x50 -Stiller TAC30 6MM Creedmoor 24" Bartlein Vortex LHT 3-15 -Mini Mauser Douglas 26" .223 Rem Leupold VX3i 6.5-20x50 -Tikka T3 CTR Scout .223/Leupold VX5HD 2-10
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#3266392 - 01/16/21 11:07 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Shooting in a time of an ammunition shortage such as we are experiencing now it should be more important than ever to make our range time count and maximize our efforts. These skill drills can do that.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3298100 - 04/20/22 09:05 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Not much noise from the defensive handgunners...
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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#3298107 - 04/20/22 11:14 PM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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Die Hard Member III
Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 2947
Loc: West
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Been shooting a little. Paper is necessary but boring, like for load workup at 25 yards. 124 PD JHP V2.  I prefer steel. Forgot to bring a little screwdriver to change adjust my zero for these new loads. 
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Aim small miss small.
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#3313662 - 02/08/23 09:18 AM
Re: A challenge for you defensive handgunners...
[Re: GC]
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PM Junkie
Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17145
Loc: Missouri
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Not sure how I missed this, Dirty Dog that is a solid working rig! I'm a recent convert to the dot sights. So far, so good I really like the optic sight.
On the training side of things, once getting the new pistol with the dot sight I have put about 1400 rounds through it running various drills in the last month or so. Feels good to be shooting centerfire again instead of being in the "save what ammo I have" mode from the past couple of years. I shot a lot of rimfire the last couple years. Because of the ammo situation I milked the centerfire stuff and shot it very conservatively. Things are slowly getting better and I am taking advantage of the availability and lower prices.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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