.223 1" in 12 twist bolt action opinions

Yup.

Originally Posted By: pahntr760...Did you also notice the
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? That would indicate satire.

Just in a good mood tonight, trying to lighten things up a bit.

I own 7 .223's and love them all. Used to be 8, but my 16 yr old son is the proud owner of my Savage P.C. 10 now that he has shot his first sub moa group with it this summer.
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I don't have much knowledge of twist rates over 10-1, but the 9.25-1 in my model 10 savage shoots sub moa with 40 gr. V-max's all day long.
 
Originally Posted By: crocketI don't have much knowledge of twist rates over 10-1, but the 9.25-1 in my model 10 savage shoots sub moa with 40 gr. V-max's all day long.

Actually, my 1-9" Model 112 would too. But it would regularly shoot right at 1/2" with either the 50 grain Vmax or Ballistic tip. Often smaller. No matter what I tried I could never get the 40's to shoot as well. No biggie as they were the same price. But with my 1-12" and 1-14" guns they all shoot 40-55 grainers with aplomb. That's why I like them.
 
Thanks for the continued opinions and reports guys. I also understand the joke about more than one .223 now ha. I will probably go with the new Browning Xbolt Varmint Stalker or the model 7 predator if I end up getting another 1/12 .223. These guns dont have bull barrels but medium contour barrels and the predator is flutted so should do well for volume shooting on a dog town or something then also be a nice predator rifle.
 
I've been shooting a bolt action 223 for most likely longer than anyone on the site, custom ordered from Rem a Rem 600 in 223 in 1966. It shot everything I fed it(there were no heavies in 224 back then) it killed everything and was nice and light. Still haven't seen the need for heavies in a .224 no matter the cartridge, that's why they make .24, .25 and 6.5 cartridges.

If you already have a heavy 223 that will shoot heavies well I couldn't see anything wrong with a nice Model 7 in 223 for a walk-about/calling rifle.
 
Some years ago, I noticed how my H Bar with it's 1-7 twist blew up p. dogs better than the 22/250 with it's 1-14 twist.

So, I built two custom 1-9 twist 223's, Hart barrels, and a 1-9 twist Hart bbl'd 22 PPC. I had my own reamers so 14 twists in the 223 and 22 PPC were shot side by side, and Hart barrels were used in all builds.

I was really upset by what I had found out because I had spent $1200 on this 1-9 experiment.

I had established loads for the 223/14twists and 22PPC/14 twists.

Fact#1- Loads for the 223/9 twist and the 22/PPC ended up being exactly 0.5g less than the 14 twists.

Fact #2- Loads for the 9 twists changed more dramatically as the temps got hotter

Fact #3- It takes very little pressure change to change the accuracy node of a precision load. Just think of how a small change in seating depth can make a load shoot into a bug hole or open the group dramatically. Accuracy nodes are very sensitive, maybe as little as 2000 or less C.U.P.'s in pressure.

If you want to shoot a 9 twist or an 8 twist and shoot 40g bullets in 22 caliber, it is your hobby, do as you will. For me, I have learned my lesson, I twist and throat a barrel for the bullets I intend to shoot. I also worked up a load for a 40g with the 9 twist 223, it was super accurate, but it too had a very small window of accuracy in terms of the powder spread, OCW.

On another note, I have not seen where a 22 caliber 12 twist changes pressure on loads like the 9 twists did.

Mechanical engineers doing the math can "reduce to ridiculous" the tiny changes in pressure in the change in twist rates, but real world hands on experience is where the rubber meets the road. If a guy is not interested in super accuracy, well what the heck, it really is a non issue.



Having said that, accuracy is a relative thing, what is accuracy to one guy is a shot out barrel to another, etc.
 
Thank you for the responses, I probably will get a Model 7 in .223. Could use it as a walk about and calling rifle like you said, then have e VTR 1 in 9 for my target work and some varminter gas well, Also would work well as a varminter on squirrels marmots or P dogs in volume with the flutted heavier barrel. Once again I can't see the need for a big long varmint rifle like a SPS varmint when a 7 is much more compact and would handle heat just as well, Heard nothing but good things about the Model 7.

I shoot 55 gr fmjs , and some 69 match in the 1 in 9 remmy, don't really go heavier than that, so the model 7 for 40-55 sounds great.
 
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I finally figured out what happened with this case rupture. I have been shooting this IMI brass in a custom 223 with a minimum SAAMI match chamber. The brass had probably been fired 20+ times, but pockets were still very tight.

I loaded the brass in the Remington SPS stainless sporter which has a much larger chamber. The brass was brittle and would not expand like it normally would, it just ruptured. The brass was neck sized only and fit in the custom chamber just fine. Then of course the brass would fit in the larger Rem 700 chamber. The memory that this piece of brass had developed from being fired so many times made the brass brittle.

About 6 months ago, I was shooting my 6ppc in a Stolle Panda, which has a right handed bolt, and a left port. The Panda has no gas venting holes like the Remington does. I had a case rupture from the exact same issue of shooting brass that was from one barrel in another barrel, and the brass was Lapua brass. There could not have been more than .001 difference in the brass from chamber to chamber if even .001. Since I am a right handed shooter and the Stolle Panda has the ejection port on the left hand side, I got a face full of gasses on that episode also. Safety glasses once again were very handy.

All my life, I have been switching barrels, adjusting brass headspace from barrel to barrel without any issues in minimum SAAMI match chambers. As the brass gets old from 20+ firings, I think that I am going to have to throw some brass away.

The culprit is metal fatigue on the brass which is made worse by the fact that we can not decrease the size of the web and push the shoulder back in two different operations. In commercial dies, the shoulder has to be pushed back excessively in order to reduce the size of the web. When we push the shoulder back in excess of .002, the brass is being worked a LOT.

My first p.dog hunting partner, Bill Leeper, kept track of his brass. After the 5th full length sizing, he tossed the Winchester 6mm Rem brass(fired in factory chambers). We used Forester/bonanza neck sizers which has a shoulder bumper in it that can eliminate a lot of full length sizing. I had forgot about this practice of Bill's till now, but I think that it may be a good thing to re-examine. Also, keeping brass separate for each barrel(chamber) may also be a good thing.

I still find it hard to believe that one second I was pulling the trigger, and the next millisecond I was sitting in the floor thinking what the heck just happened.

One thing for sure, safety or shooting glasses are important if you value your eyes.
 
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