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#2727223 - 10/05/14 04:48 PM Fisherman Catching and Releasing Mangled and Dead Fish
woodguru Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 3361
Loc: California
We were at Rock Creek Lake for a week, and had a morning spot to fish where we could all limit out in about 15 minutes with nice fat two pound and larger trout. There were plenty of three to seven pounders that we would catch here and there as well.

We get to our spot and there's a guy there with two or three really nice fish in the over 3 pound class on a stringer. My wife's dad said we could wait for a few minutes for the guy to catch his limit and then we could fish rather than horn in on his spot. So the guy would catch a nice fat two pounder and rip the power baited hook out of it's mouth with pliers and throw a bleeding and dying fish into the water to float around.

Every time he'd do this I was getting more and more ticked off, my father in law was too but he was restraining me from saying anything to the guy. I had enough at about the tenth fish he threw back, I said that's it. Don was trying to intervene and my wife told him to let me be, he wasn't going to be able to stop me. I walked up to the fat slob and told him he was all done. He told me he was not, he hadn't caught his limit. I told him if he wanted a limit gather up a couple of the floaters that were three feet away from him, but pack up his stuff and get out. He got belligerent and told me I couldn't make him go, he asked me "what are you going to do shoot me?". I told him I was going to throw his fat butt in the water and keep him here until my wife could go up to the store to call and get a warden here.

He wasn't happy but he packed his things up and left, we collected over ten of the dying fish that were beautiful fat fish and caught a couple more and went back to the cabin to eat some trout.

Now my question for wardens since I've seen the habit of throwing mangled smaller but nice eating fish back so as to keep only really big ones is, what is the legal position a warden can take so that I know where my lines are?

If it's something a warden can do something about I'll hold a gun on a guy and wait for a warden to get there.
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A continual circulation of lies among those who are not much in the way of hearing them contradicted, will in time pass for their truth; the crime lies not in the believer but the inventor.
Thomas Paine

Ignorance is not okay

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#2727332 - 10/05/14 09:10 PM Re: Fisherman Catching and Releasing Mangled and Dead Fish [Re: woodguru]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5883
Loc: stuck in a fence
Originally Posted By: woodguru
I'll hold a gun on a guy and wait for a warden to get there.


let us know how that works out for you rambo.
_________________________
skeptical is what i am when told there is a dead coyote in certain far off pictures.

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#2727343 - 10/05/14 09:38 PM Re: Fisherman Catching and Releasing Mangled and Dead Fish [Re: woodguru]
erict Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 420
Loc: near Albany, NY
NY has a law that states "no person shall ...possess, kill or unnecessarily injure fish...except that fish caught and returned to the water immediately without unnecessary injury will not be counted as part of the daily limit." California may have a similar or "wanton waste" law that fits what you saw.

Your cell phone video camera would be a much better tool to use than a gun. Save the gun for murderers, rapists, burglars and the like.

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#2727460 - 10/06/14 10:32 AM Re: Fisherman Catching and Releasing Mangled and Dead Fish [Re: woodguru]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9466
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: woodguru


Now my question for wardens since I've seen the habit of throwing mangled smaller but nice eating fish back so as to keep only really big ones is, what is the legal position a warden can take so that I know where my lines are?

If it's something a warden can do something about I'll hold a gun on a guy and wait for a warden to get there.


CA freshwater fishing regs say it's unlawful to:

"Cause the deterioration or waste of any fish taken in the waters of this state (CCR T14 Section 1.87)

I wouldn't recommend holding a gun on someone to aid in the prosecution of a fishing violation.

If you want to help get an offender prosecuted just take notes of as many details as you can and forward that info to the nearest LE agency. They will either take care of it themselves or refer it to the nearest F&G officer.


Edited by fw707 (10/06/14 10:38 AM)
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“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

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#2729551 - 10/11/14 08:17 PM Re: Fisherman Catching and Releasing Mangled and Dead Fish [Re: woodguru]
Orneryolfart357 Offline
PM senior

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 9053
Loc: Nevada
You are dealing with "Woody2Shoes" not much validity to any of his posts.
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#2729764 - 10/12/14 01:27 PM Re: Fisherman Catching and Releasing Mangled and Dead Fish [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
Hidalgo Offline
PM senior

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 6081
Loc: TN
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
Originally Posted By: woodguru
I'll hold a gun on a guy and wait for a warden to get there.


let us know how that works out for you rambo.


I was taught that you only pull a weapon if it is the last resort and you are intent on using it.

So if the guy jumps at you after you pull your gun are you going to tell the Judge that you shot him over a few dead fish? rolleyes

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#2729768 - 10/12/14 01:37 PM Re: Fisherman Catching and Releasing Mangled and Dead Fish [Re: Hidalgo]
Coyotejunki Offline
PM senior

Registered: 04/03/04
Posts: 5196
Loc: MO
I don't claim to know the law, but isn't there a law against holding someone against their will? Not including LEO's with legal authority.

What are you going to do if he says F off and starts to walk away? Shoot a non threatening person leaving over some fish? I am pretty sure this is not allowed under the use of deadly force. Then there is also the brandishing issue.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis



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#2732057 - 10/17/14 08:50 PM Re: Fisherman Catching and Releasing Mangled and Dead Fish [Re: woodguru]
ThomC Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 11/27/10
Posts: 190
Loc: Tucson, az
In Az you can only catch your limit. You cant give away or release that last fish. Most Bass tournaments have a limit as 1 less than the legal limit so they can release the smaller bass. If a Warden was watching him he would be in trouble. Call the Warden take pics.

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#2732788 - 10/19/14 08:19 PM Re: Fisherman Catching and Releasing Mangled and Dead Fish [Re: Coyotejunki]
Hidalgo Offline
PM senior

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 6081
Loc: TN
Originally Posted By: Coyotejunki
I don't claim to know the law, but isn't there a law against holding someone against their will? Not including LEO's with legal authority.

What are you going to do if he says F off and starts to walk away? Shoot a non threatening person leaving over some fish? I am pretty sure this is not allowed under the use of deadly force. Then there is also the brandishing issue.


His remarks are EXACTLY the reason it is becoming more & more difficult to maintain or acquire a handgun permit. Some think it makes them an automatic "Wyatt Earp".

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#2812509 - 03/14/15 11:18 AM Re: Fisherman Catching and Releasing Mangled and Dead Fish [Re: woodguru]
pk1 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 1417
Loc: Oregon
I've seen this more times than I can mention. What I've done is follow them back to their vehicle and get a license plate number. Also, if I'm not the only witness I'll take names.

In this modern era of cell phone video, etc, I would think it's be easy to nail these people.

Many years ago we went up to Sabrina to rent a boat and do some fishing. A couple of guys came in with full stringers of 10 fish each, the limit for that time. As far as I could see they were done so being next in line for a boat I asked them if they were going to take it back. They said no, they were going to take their fish back to camp and go out and catch some more. When I told them I was going to turn them in they scoffed at me. One guy watched the boat while the others took the fish. Since they weren't at the dock there wasn't much I could do. I'd bet that the great majority of those fish were thrown out, too.

I fly fish and mostly catch and release with barbless hooks. I really don't mind anyone keeping a limit of fish but I despise game hogs. In the put and take fisheries of places like Rock Creek Lake we like to keep a couple of trout for dinner but we seldom take anything home for later consumption. Too much game is wasted that way. I couldn't say how many times I've heard people say they love to fish yet don't eat fish. They kill the fish, take it home and let it freezer burn then throw it out. I've known my share of deer hunters that do the same thing. Greedy people that won't give any venison away but are loathe to eat it themselves.

Where do these people come from??
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It's not that I didn't know how to juggle. I just didn't have the balls to do it.

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#2830190 - 05/09/15 12:41 PM Re: Fisherman Catching and Releasing Mangled and Dead Fish [Re: woodguru]
gme Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 101
Loc: nw ohio
Originally Posted By: woodguru
I'll hold a gun on a guy and wait for a warden to get there.
Really? That is insane.

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#2830226 - 05/09/15 04:19 PM Re: Fisherman Catching and Releasing Mangled and Dead Fish [Re: woodguru]
T-Nichols Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 276
Loc: OK
He might pull out a gun as well and have a justified reason to do so. Never take a fishing pole to a gun fight.

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#2832042 - 05/17/15 07:40 AM Re: Fisherman Catching and Releasing Mangled and Dead Fish [Re: woodguru]
muskrat30 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 03/03/02
Posts: 3137
Loc: Wisconsin
I would take pictures with your cell phone of the evidence then a picture of his vehicle and plate. You could do this all without mentioning a word to him.
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Veteran,NRA(life),RMEF,RGS,DU

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#2832495 - 05/18/15 08:13 PM Re: Fisherman Catching and Releasing Mangled and Dead Fish [Re: T-Nichols]
Powerfisher Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 1855
Loc: Washington
Originally Posted By: T-Nichols
Never take a fishing pole to a gun fight.


yup.
_________________________
"Live to Shoot, Shoot to Live"
"Gun Control is being able to hit your target"


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#2863763 - 09/22/15 02:37 PM Re: Fisherman Catching and Releasing Mangled and Dead Fish [Re: Powerfisher]
Yellowhammer Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 16605
Loc: Huntington, Texas
Releasing legal fish to die would be considered "wanton waste".

Releasing undersized fish (even if they might die) is required. For example if you catch an undersized fish that has swallowed the hook or something like that, you can't keep it.

If a person is being negligent in how they handle the fish to cause "wanton waste" they can be cited.

If you have an undersized fish that swallows a hook, the fishes best chance is cut the line as short as possible and throw it back, not rip out the hook and throw it back.
_________________________
"The recreational value of a head of game is inverse to the artificiality of its origin"

"No prize is greater than the effort taken to acheive it"

- Aldo Leopold, The Father of Wildlife Management



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