reloading questions to get accuracy

logstove

New member
I am a novice reloader and have loaded for 223/243 and 270. I have many of the recommended powder for loading these as well as various bullets. My question are mainly what method do you use to get to the optimal accuracy for a rifle. Here is what I do:

-select bullet for loading
-select powder from manuf book
-also check what others are using for said cartridge
-load at minimum and up to mid powder recommended
-watch for pressure etc etc
-I generally do not load to max
-I have chrono but not set it up yet...need to get a stand

Say you want to tweak a load by moving bullet closer/away from lands to get better accuracy. Do you tweak the seating or try another powder? I know there are several ways to go about this
such as using another powder, another bullet, maybe even another primer/brass etc etc. How do you guys start?

I know not to change more than one variable at a time. And I read somewhere where someone finds the load hat gives best velocity for a certain powder and work with that load to get the best accuracy. At my range is a public range and I is not easy to put up chrono etc. But or state ranges open in Sept this my be better for me.
 
I generally start with the bullet just off the lands buy .010 or so. Start low, work up in 1/2 grain increments using 3 shot groups. I just want to narrow it down. If I see something that shows promise, I then play with seating depth and larger test samples. If that doesn't get it I may move on to the next powder or start over with #2 bullet of choice.
 
I do much the same as Furshooter. I will normally always shoot my initial loads thru the chronograph while I am evaluating accuracy. That way even if a load is accurate but the velocity is very low I know to keep working up or change powders to achieve reasonable velocity.
 
Originally Posted By: logstove
-load at minimum and up to mid powder recommended
-watch for pressure etc etc
-I generally do not load to max


Am I understanding you correct that you only load up to midway between minimum and maximum? If not, what do you mean by "load at minimum and up to mid powder recommended". If you are only going half way to listed max, you are not getting to the accuracy load and not getting much velocity. You may find some of the accuracy with low loads but not many. My 270 most accurate load is at max, same with my 204.
 
I start at or close to lands in rifle, or at max lengle I can still use my box magazine at. Then I load 1 each from mid range to 1 grain over max. I shoot one at a time giving time to cool back to ambient temp there about. I shoot till I see pressure signs. Then that's my max load. I load these in 2 tenths charge ( 35.0-35.2-35.4). Then I'll start loading 3 each in same increments from mid charge to my max. I usually find my accurate load near max or above book max in all my rifles, I'll also find one under max. Then verify loads that I choose. If I want to adjust seating depth I do it with theist accurate charges I found. seat IN the case 5-10 thousands at a time.
 
Get the paper back book by Mic Mcpherson metallic cartridge handloading you will be happy you did and your questions will be answered. amazon should have it for about thirty dollars. There is a lot of information..
 
First when wanting accuracy, make sure you have a good barrel and name brand rifle manufacturer.
Poor barrels or cheap bolts / parts out of spec won't help you out.
You can't get accuracy out of something that didn't have a good foundation to start on.
All that is is tighter Quality Control at work for your foundation.
 
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This is the easy solution in what you are trying to do.
 
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I'm so exhausted from reading that, I think I will give up loading.

Man, you have a way of complicating the simplest things...
 
Originally Posted By: FurhunterI generally start with the bullet just off the lands buy .010 or so. Start low, work up in 1/2 grain increments using 3 shot groups. I just want to narrow it down. If I see something that shows promise, I then play with seating depth and larger test samples. If that doesn't get it I may move on to the next powder or start over with #2 bullet of choice.



This is pretty much the nut shell.


Start with the bullet you want to run. Pick two powders that are known to work with caliber and weight. Work it up and see if there is some promise. If not I change bullet and stick with the powder I want.

With unlimited bullets and powder you can always find what your rifle likes the best, but even then you have to narrow things down to be practical.

Pick a bullet. Then work with a couple powders. If there is promise you will see it. Then you can tweak seat depth primer type and then play with marginal powder charge change. 1/2 grain increments is sufficient to start work up.
 
The easiest(fastest, may not seem correct to some) way that I have found that works for me is as follows:
Get factory ammo with good brass(the kind that you want to reload in) for break in of new rifle. Shoot and do the cleaning process for break in(your personal preference on procedure). You just fire formed your brass for THAT rifle.

Preparing brass: can be as in-depth as you want to make it! This is how I do it.
Trim all brass to same length, debur, check flash hole, clean primer pocket, neck size, insert primer, powder, seat bullet (I prefer not to have my dies set to crimp the neck of the case to the bullet-personal reasons), shoot

For most of the powders that I use on my rifles I have never found one that shot its best at min. load. I start projectile just barely off the lands. Start with powder a little above recommended min. but not by much. Start loading up one in small increments to signs of pressure. The last round that did not show signs(several verifying follow up shots) is the max for that rifle. Back off of the max (a fair bit,how much will be personal choice). At a constant powder load, I prefer 5 shot groups at 200-300 yards, start backing the projectile out of the lands a couple thousandths at a time. You will see the pattern large going smaller then increasing again. Go a few past to make sure. After finding your seating depth now start playing with your powder charge, again I prefer 5 shot groups at 200-300 yards. I found (with the powders that I normally use, coming from lots of trials) that it is better to start some where above recommended min but below mid range, working up in bigger increments to max charge. again you will see that the grouping will be large, get small, and get big again. Looking at your best grouping start working both ways in very small inc. to find the sweet spot for that bullet and powder at that temp. Make sure that you are looking at your brass. It tells you a lot. Your best load when it is 110 in the summer may not be your best load in the winter when it is 35 below.

Do some playing and have fun, but be safe!

Good Luck
 
"Breaking in" is a waste of time, money and barrel life...

Breaking is a fad that has run it's course - no knowledgeable shooters waste time with it anymore - many never bothered with it in the first place, and won matches anyway.
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooter"Breaking in" is a waste of time, money and barrel life...



So is playing with seating depth with 5 shot groups at 300 yards. Wind alone spoils the test samples. I wonder how he shoots 300 yard groups with one load to determine seating depth then goes back to play with the charge again. Which at the end of the day... Spoils the whole seating depth thing he did the step before... I see a new barrel being installed at the end of testing!

Maybe I just read it wrong but sure seems like there's a lot of tail chasing going on. I used to get all wound around the axle testing loads when I was younger. Then one day I realized all I was ever doing is running like a friggin hamster on a wheel constantly testing loads. Hadn't shot at a fun target in a long, long time. Now I keep it simple and would advise anyone just starting to do the same.
 
working up a load seems easy peazy to me.

Load up 3 rounds each in .03 increments...shoot for groups at 100 yds... while taking your time with good weather and a stable rest.... look for the 3 groups that look similar in size and placement on paper...that have very little vertical spread upwards. The 3 best groups need to be side by side, not just one good group and then jumping to another one...they must all 3 be side by side and around the same size hole pattern. Then choose the middle group/powder charge, and work with that load, while doing the very same test all over again...but with different seating depths of .03 increments from the lands. You will find a group that sucks down tighter than the one you had with just the powder testing. Once you did all that...you can get real serious by doing the whole test again, but with ONLY changing the primers out... but be careful here, because pressures may get too hot. The most accurate groups will MOSTLY be found near the MAX load area... but there can be a good one with lower charges as well since there is usually two accuracy nodes.
 


Of all the threads on getting accuracy I have read here in the last 12 years, this one has the most convoluted, amateurish, and silly advice I have seen.

Hey God, would you please send down a bolt of lightening to hit the server and delete this piece of crap!!


.
 
Originally Posted By: FurhunterI generally start with the bullet just off the lands buy .010 or so. Start low, work up in 1/2 grain increments using 3 shot groups. I just want to narrow it down. If I see something that shows promise, I then play with seating depth and larger test samples. If that doesn't get it I may move on to the next powder or start over with #2 bullet of choice.

I have had more luck by just "picking" the bullet I want, with a decent powder. Picking a load that is approximately 75% of max load. From there I follow the below recommended procedure from Berger Bullets. I have had a load go from a 2 1/2" group to less than .75" JUST by changing the seating depth from .090 to .130 off the lands!:

Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).

Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don’t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:

.010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
.040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:

.010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL towards or away from the lands .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Master Bulletsmith
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooter

Of all the threads on getting accuracy I have read here in the last 12 years, this one has the most convoluted, amateurish, and silly advice I have seen.

Hey God, would you please send down a bolt of lightening to hit the server and delete this piece of crap!!


.

Shooter, only you could have said that and made me LAUGH.
thumbup.gif
 
Originally Posted By: HidalgoOriginally Posted By: CatShooter

Of all the threads on getting accuracy I have read here in the last 12 years, this one has the most convoluted, amateurish, and silly advice I have seen.

Hey God, would you please send down a bolt of lightening to hit the server and delete this piece of crap!!


.

Shooter, only you could have said that and made me LAUGH.
thumbup.gif





Good...

tt2.gif



 
Originally Posted By: CatShooter
Hidalgo said:
CatShooter said:
Of all the threads on getting accuracy I have read here in the last 12 years, this one has the most convoluted, amateurish, and silly advice I have seen.

Hey God, would you please send down a bolt of lightening to hit the server and delete this piece of crap!!


.

Shooter, only you could have said that and made me LAUGH.
thumbup.gif


Tell us how you really feel, don't hold back... lol
 
Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZ

Tell us how you really feel, don't hold back... lol

Neither one of us has a problem with that. Sometimes in my case to a fault .....
blushing.gif
 
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