Most of what I've read here about all officers being bound by the Constitution is correct, however, when it comes to game laws, since the evidence of illegal activity is so easy to quickly dispose or disperse, there have been some states that statutorily give more latitude after probability of cause is established...

The ability of the Game Warden is not relieved of the responsibility, any more than any other officer, to be able to articulate that probably cause to the court, if challenged in that arena..They, in some cases, are just not required to obtain a warrant in all cases...A plain view or consent search still holds true in almost all cases, but non curtilage areas can be open season..

So if a person were to keep their firearms in a locked container as the warden approached, then without a search warrant he would have no power? But if in the Wardens own mind he felt that he had probable cause, then he could search "said" vehicle? How would this work? Couldn't any Warden say that they had probable cause and get around the issue? What is probable cause? Wouldn't this have to be proven prior to a search?

correct


But if in the Wardens own mind he felt that he had probable cause, then he could search "said" vehicle? How would this work? Couldn't any Warden say that they had probable cause and get around the issue? What is probable cause? Wouldn't this have to be proven prior to a search?

he could search a vehicle for weapons only called a "Terry Frisk " as per Terry v. Ohio but if there's a locked container in the vehicle he must have a search warrant to open the container.

Thanks for the info bignasty... Not that I have any worries, it's nice to know the legalities. If nore have info, please chime in.

Any locked container requires a proper judicial search warrant...The owner has the specific right to feel that whatever is in a container is totally private...That has been upheld in several Federal level courts numerous times...Normally, the same applies to the locked trunk of a vehicle, unless the driver/owner is being the subject of a custodial arrest and the vehicle is about to be towed to an impound facility. Then the officer has the right to do an "Inventory" search for his own protection, as well as the protection of the subject's property...If contraband is found incidental to that search, normally it is admissible in court for additional charges...

I agree if this were the case the search would have been legal.

If not, the officer was probably under the impression consent was implied when the OP didn't refuse the request to check licenses and guns. A grey area for sure..

This is from the Wyoming regulations

You might have bolded this portion as well, because it is extremely important:

"...for any wildlife that the officer has probable cause to believe was taken or is possessed unlawfully."

The key words being "probable cause."

So what would constitute probable cause, other than seeing someone shooting an animal or seeing part of an animal in a vehicle?

Coyotejunki,,,Just as an example, since if you change a word, you can change the law, stick with just what I write...

You are in an area where poaching is normal, there are shots heard in the area, you are driving down a back road and are stopped, upon approaching your vehicle, the Game Warden observes what appears to be unknown blood in the bed of your truck, or bumper of your car...That is probable cause to investigate farther..

At that point, you can choose to cooperate and allow a search of the vehicle, or deny a search and the Game Warden can 1) Force the issue on shaky grounds, or 2) Call for a back up area LEO to stand by to prevent movement of the vehicle or destruction of possible evidence and go to the nearest judge and apply for a search warrant, or 3) in some states, arrest/detain you physically for Investigation and tow the vehicle, as which time he will legally search for the purposes if Inventory to prevent loss of your personal property and protection of his own integrity...

Some states may also give statutory authority for a forced search, holding the officer non-liable based on probably cause that turns up nothing, but that is an area that you would need to research for yourself..

An arrest/detention for the purposes of Investigation usually applies to Felony crimes and you can be held for 24-48 hours, depending on the state statutes and local case law..If the Warden is unsuccessful in obtaining a warrant, he has to let you go about your business...I have no doubt that there are officers that will push with #1, betting that the subject will not get an attorney and file a law suit...There is a Federal Statute that applies to Violation of Civil Rights Under Color of Law, but it is seldom used in minor cases...

Game warden is sitting on the side of the road, and hears a shot. A few minutes later you come driving by. Probable cause to check and see it you just shot something from the road.

Another: Game warden hears duck hunters roosting ducks after shooting hours. He gets to the hunters at their truck. He is going to search them, their truck, and anything else they have like a boat, trailer or other wise. He heard you shooting after hours and has probable cause to believe you have illegally taken game.

You are dove hunting. Game warden hears enough shooting in your direction to constitute several limits (you suck and shoot 5 boxes of shells to kill your limit of 12 birds). So he searches your game bag, truck and whatever else to see if you stashed more than your limit. He figures nobody shoots that bad.

I never knew this law but it still doesn't give a warden any right to search your truck because he feels like it. In the original post according to the story the warden had absolutely no evidence that anything was illegally taken. The law states he has to have reasonable evidence that game was taken illegally. Which he did not. Just because you are hunting doesn't give them the right to search your stuff unless they have some evidence of something illegal taking place.

All you people that keep Bolding these laws about wardens being able to search without a warrant kill me. It doesn't say they can search you just for the heck of it! Even if you are hunting! They have to of seen or had some sort of evidence that something illegal happened. PROBABLY CAUSE OF SOMETHING ILLEGAL HAPPENING IN ORDER TO SEARCH YOUR VEHICLE.

If an officer knows a person is hunting, the officer can inspect their hunting license and all wildlife taken or transported. Wildlife in a hunters possession can be inspected whether there is a suspected violation or not. Read #4 above, "Inspect all wildlife taken or transported....."

Inspecting the firearms after they were done hunting and put away in the vehicle was explained very well by "erict" which I agree changed the situation and would not have been a justified search.

Montana Law..

"87-1-506. Enforcement powers of wardens. (1) A warden may:

(a) serve a subpoena issued by a court for the trial of a violator of the fish and game laws;

(b) search, without a warrant, any tent not used as a residence, any boat, vehicle, box, locker, basket, creel, crate, game bag, or package, or their contents upon probable cause to believe that any fish and game law or department rule for the protection, conservation, or propagation of game, fish, birds, or fur-bearing animals has been violated;

(c) search, only with a search warrant and only when accompanied by a county sheriff or deputy sheriff, any dwelling house or other building;