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#2589984 - 12/15/13 09:22 AM Re: domestic dogs chasing wildlife [Re: Bear]
liliysdad Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 1204
Loc: Oklahoma
Being as Deer are wildlife, and coyotes are a nuisance animal, the choice is not difficult. As for what your animals do on your property, I could care less. I can assure you, however, that if they will chase a deer on your place, they will, and are, doing it elsewhere. Whether you see it or not, its happening.

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#2590037 - 12/15/13 11:03 AM Re: domestic dogs chasing wildlife [Re: Timberbeast7]
REID2168 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 1334
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Timberbeast7
The fact is I'm basing my decision on the FACT that the dog is chasing wildlife. That is unacceptable and illegal, period.

Your Lassie scenarios did make me smile though. What if the dog was rabid and had just chewed up a group of orphans and was now chasing a deer in an attempt to lure in unsuspecting passerby's trying to help the poor deer so it could continue it's rampage? Wouldn't it be irresponsible not to shoot it?


some guy gut shoots a deer never finds it deer dies in the woods.......im out in the woods coyote hunting days later and my dog roams a few hundred yards which is typical coyote hunting trying to draw yotes in but my dog finds the already dead deer thats been chewed on by coyotes and my dog chews on it and u come by see my dog chewing the ALREADY DEAD DEER with your mind set its kill time because with your type thnking u ASSUME incorreclty it killed that deer...hence u would be WRONG but u have know way to know the difference.......with this thought process you would have made a decision to kill with out FACTS its just that simple and that type thinking is harmful legal or not and in this case would be illegal......PERIOD...we can go back and forth with hypothetical all day but my hypothetical doesnt harm peoples pets or have the chance to diminsh our hunnting rights through people finding out i didnt kill a personal pet........your thinking kill them all can harm us all with this info in the wrong hands legal or not........PERIOD!!!!!!

point being and the REAL FACT is u dont know one way or the other whether its RABID or a PET the first time third time owner is coming right behind it trying to stop it train it or any of that and that is my entire point and u dont care either way from all your statements and that could have detrimental impact to ones self or ALL hunters everywhere in the wrong instance...... like i said unless u have mental telepathy to communicate with the dog to determine that prior to making your split second decision to kill it......ridiculous decisoin making at best....u only know its legal to kill them when they chase and u dont approve of it regardless of circumstance and it gives u a legal reason to fire your gun at something and kill it based on personl belief and a piece of paper the laws written on thats says its legal....thats it no more no less.......other than that u have absolutely no other valid argument to present whatsoever.....your ethics are suspect to say the least and could drastaically harm our sport when u kill the wrong dog OR get others harmed for doing what u say u do which is make a decision to KILL a dog without facts other than legality....i can only pray your not a any type of law enforcement with a badge & gun with this thought process...BAD CHOICE OF JUDGEMENT to say the least and could have more harmful impact then the deer u are so adament about saving from a domestic dog......if u cant see the truth in that there in lies the real problem which is people like yourself in the woods making decisions in split seconds about killing because its legal to do so...PERIOD!

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#2590048 - 12/15/13 11:12 AM Re: domestic dogs chasing wildlife [Re: liliysdad]
REID2168 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 1334
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: liliysdad
Being as Deer are wildlife, and coyotes are a nuisance animal, the choice is not difficult. As for what your animals do on your property, I could care less. I can assure you, however, that if they will chase a deer on your place, they will, and are, doing it elsewhere. Whether you see it or not, its happening.


deer are nuisance animals in loys of cases.....ask certain the Indiana farmers that dont allow coyote hunting on their land because they help cull the deer eating their crops an ddestroying them and hurintg their wallet......and as well anyone that doesnt know coyotes are also wildlife shoulndt be taken to seriously............SIMPLE as that.

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#2590055 - 12/15/13 11:22 AM Re: domestic dogs chasing wildlife [Re: Bear]
REID2168 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 1334
Loc: Indiana
also knowing something is happening even though u cant see it to prove it.....what a JOKE........as well if u can prove something is happening even though u arent there to see & prove it you should sell that service....... as i assure u if u have that ability, which highly i doubt, u can make MILLIONS in law enforement to stop crime or the stock market....BET!!!!!!!!!!!

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#2590066 - 12/15/13 11:41 AM Re: domestic dogs chasing wildlife [Re: cojab]
doggin coyotes Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 10539
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: cojab
Which one am I supposed to shoot, the dogs or the coyotes?


The words dog and coyote are interchangeable here. Flip a coin and shoot the loser.
_________________________
Colorado has smelled like one big azz brush fire every since 1-1-14.

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#2590072 - 12/15/13 11:54 AM Re: domestic dogs chasing wildlife [Re: doggin coyotes]
REID2168 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 1334
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: doggin coyotes
The words dog and coyote are interchangeable here. Flip a coin and shoot the loser.


in this thread they do determine a difference that maybe u cant understand/phathom......as far as the second portion of your statement.......well i guess maybe that justifys your confusion between dog & coyote in this thread........RIGHT!

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#2590189 - 12/15/13 03:12 PM Re: domestic dogs chasing wildlife [Re: Bear]
jrcampbell Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/05/12
Posts: 1272
Loc: butler co., pennsylvania
In Pa it is only legal to shoot a dog that is attacking a big game animal. I like this law just the way it is only for the fact a few times I've come across bow hunters drew back on my dog because they simply saw some deer running ahead of us, we were grouse/squirrel hunting at the time and my dog is broke on deer. I believe the only thing that kept these mental midgets from shooting my dog was the sound of my pump and the sight of a 12 ga barrel pointing at them. My dog was in sight the whole time and was absolutely not chasing the deer. I do agree that a dog chasing or otherwise harassing big game should be dealt with if it's absolutely obvious they are doing it. Not all people take the time to make sure though. What really made me angry about those situations was that I was no more than 40 yds from my dog,a jack russel, and a quick look around would've shown that I was not far behind.
_________________________
chance favors the prepared mind

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#2590195 - 12/15/13 03:20 PM Re: domestic dogs chasing wildlife [Re: jrcampbell]
Timberbeast7 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 947
Loc: Billings, Montana
Originally Posted By: jrcampbell
In Pa it is only legal to shoot a dog that is attacking a big game animal. I like this law just the way it is only for the fact a few times I've come across bow hunters drew back on my dog because they simply saw some deer running ahead of us, we were grouse/squirrel hunting at the time and my dog is broke on deer. I believe the only thing that kept these mental midgets from shooting my dog was the sound of my pump and the sight of a 12 ga barrel pointing at them. My dog was in sight the whole time and was absolutely not chasing the deer. I do agree that a dog chasing or otherwise harassing big game should be dealt with if it's absolutely obvious they are doing it. Not all people take the time to make sure though. What really made me angry about those situations was that I was no more than 40 yds from my dog,a jack russel, and a quick look around would've shown that I was not far behind.


Your dog wasn't chasing deer and it didn't get shot. Good example. You, by your account, pointed a gun at another person...maybe not such a good example.

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#2590208 - 12/15/13 03:46 PM Re: domestic dogs chasing wildlife [Re: Bear]
jrcampbell Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/05/12
Posts: 1272
Loc: butler co., pennsylvania
no, but my dog didn't get shot and they learned a lesson. I put a lot of time into training that dog to hunt and to not chase what he shouldn't. To have someone take his life due to a poor decision that could have been avoided by simply taking a second to look around would have been devastating to my family. I'll bet next time they think a little and maybe look around. that still doesn't excuse negligent dog owners from letting them run wild
_________________________
chance favors the prepared mind

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#2590231 - 12/15/13 04:21 PM Re: domestic dogs chasing wildlife [Re: jrcampbell]
Timberbeast7 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 947
Loc: Billings, Montana
Originally Posted By: jrcampbell
no, but my dog didn't get shot and they learned a lesson. I put a lot of time into training that dog to hunt and to not chase what he shouldn't. To have someone take his life due to a poor decision that could have been avoided by simply taking a second to look around would have been devastating to my family. I'll bet next time they think a little and maybe look around. that still doesn't excuse negligent dog owners from letting them run wild


...but your dog didn't get shot, it wasn't chasing deer. Obviously the "mental midget" hunters didn't shoot first and ask questions later. Sounds like a well trained dog and you sound like a good owner. There are a lot a 1 in a million hypothetical situations being thought up in this thread. Your dog has a much higher chance of getting run over or being killed by a coyote than killed by someone who mistakenly thinks he chasing deer.

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#2590256 - 12/15/13 05:05 PM Re: domestic dogs chasing wildlife [Re: Bear]
jrcampbell Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/05/12
Posts: 1272
Loc: butler co., pennsylvania
True. However I believe the only reason they didn't shoot is because I saw them draw back, and the fact(which I failed to mention) that they were very apologetic and told me they thought he was chasing deer. All I'm trying to say is every situation is different, sometimes a second is all that's needed to avoid a disastrous outcome. Again, I am in no way trying to defend irresponsible dog owners. sometimes I think they deserve the same punishment as the animals. I've tried to explain to my neighbors that the reason they lose a dog every few years is because they let it run wild, but it falls on deaf ears every time.
_________________________
chance favors the prepared mind

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#2590364 - 12/15/13 07:38 PM Re: domestic dogs chasing wildlife [Re: Bear]
6724 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 3072
Loc: colorado
if i were in a stand and you pointed your 12ga at me, the arrow would not be going to the dog, it would be going to you. pointing a gun at someone is a felony in most places, and a good way to start a deadly confrontation.

pretty sure that here in colorado it is illegal to hunt with dogs for small game while there is an active big game season going on in that area.

if you have dogs that are trained to chase coyotes off of your property, that is an entirely different scenario, however, if they continue the chase AFTER they enter someone elses property or public lands then the table is turned. chasing deer even on private land is a death sentence here. there have been plenty of times where i have seen a dog chasing a deer, but i am too far away, or do not have a rifle. the next time i see that dog i will shoot it. but the way some of you talk, i would have to wait until i saw the dog actually take a bite out of the deer, at that point it is too late, how many deer has the dog taken down by the time i see it happen?

it appears that there is some difference in opinion based on where people live, those of you back east seem to be more willing to let dogs get away with whatever you want, while people who live in the west seem to be more of the opinion that a dog doesn't get several chances.

it is really amazing to me that after all these years of dogs getting shot for running at large, chasing livestock, chasing wildlife, killing wildlife, that there is no end to the number of people that let their dogs do it. and then when the dog gets killed, they swear that it was the first time the dog had ever done it.

a few years back in El Jebel Colorado, a story was in the paper where one dog was missing and the other one came home with 13 or so 22 bullet wounds. there was an immense public outcry, even a march to the courthouse. the owners swore up and down that someone must have targeted their dog, that the dogs were always confined. there was a reward put up to catch the shooter. after a week or so of the hoopla, the truth came out. there had been numerous complaints about the dogs chasing and KILLING swans that a nearby rancher owned. he had finally had enough and shot both the dogs, but only one made it home. the issue disappeared from the papers instantly.

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#2590365 - 12/15/13 07:39 PM Re: domestic dogs chasing wildlife [Re: Timberbeast7]
one_timer Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 93
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: Timberbeast7
Originally Posted By: jrcampbell
In Pa it is only legal to shoot a dog that is attacking a big game animal. I like this law just the way it is only for the fact a few times I've come across bow hunters drew back on my dog because they simply saw some deer running ahead of us, we were grouse/squirrel hunting at the time and my dog is broke on deer. I believe the only thing that kept these mental midgets from shooting my dog was the sound of my pump and the sight of a 12 ga barrel pointing at them. My dog was in sight the whole time and was absolutely not chasing the deer. I do agree that a dog chasing or otherwise harassing big game should be dealt with if it's absolutely obvious they are doing it. Not all people take the time to make sure though. What really made me angry about those situations was that I was no more than 40 yds from my dog,a jack russel, and a quick look around would've shown that I was not far behind.


Your dog wasn't chasing deer and it didn't get shot. Good example. You, by your account, pointed a gun at another person...maybe not such a good example.


An extremely poor example by all accounts...

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#2590367 - 12/15/13 07:40 PM Re: domestic dogs chasing wildlife [Re: Bear]
dog1whckr Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 2490
Loc: Wyoming
In our area, anyone's dog running loose or harassing livestock/wildlife is identified and the OWNER is contacted and advised that if the behavior continues? Puppy isn't coming home!! IF the dog(s) are seen in a sheep flock? The bugger does not get a second chance. To many sheep are killed by the 'family pet' to warrant a second thought about doing them in. EXAMPLE: One of the neighbors lost a bunch of geese to a 'family pet'. The goose owner put the dog down, took the collar and hung it in the public notice case at the post office. The dog owner saw the collar, contacted the goose owner and was presented with a bill for 35 dead geese. The same thing happens with sheep, calves, foals and chickens. First timer chasers get a bye run(generally), killing, crippling livestock OR wildlife? The dog is toast!!

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#2590390 - 12/15/13 08:07 PM Re: domestic dogs chasing wildlife [Re: Bear]
6724 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 3072
Loc: colorado
the suggestion has been made to contact the dog's owner and resolve the issue that way. well, i have tried that, it does NOT work.

new neighbors moved into the subdivision (35 acre lots 6 miles from the nearest paved road), they were informed that by others that i would kill their dogs for no reason given any chance. not long after they moved in, the dog was roaming my property, i chased it off. i informed the owners directly that roaming dogs would not be tolerated. a year or so goes by and i look out and see the dog on my bait. i tied a piece of deer hide to its collar and sent it home. the neighbor came looking and i told her what had happened. she claimed that her dog would not do that, that it did not eat meat. that dog got cancer and was put down. they got another dog and the same thing happened, after seeing it on my property more than once, one day it did not make it home.
other new neighbors were told the same thing about me. they have a pitbull, i would find it on my property and roaming the neighborhood fairly regularly. i told the wife that i would not let it keep happening. one day i turned around and there it was, i had no gun so i threw a sharp heavy stick at it, trying my best to hurt it. i told the wife exactly that. that still did not settle in, so a few months later when i look out and see that dog on my bait, i tried to figure what gun i could shoot it with to hurt it, but not bad enough to kill it. so i grabbed a 12ga with some 7-1/2 shot target loads. i aimed high to account for the 90 yard shot and fired. i went out to check the situation and found that most of my pellets were low, but a few were high. so i am sure i hit it with a least a few. maybe they did not break the skin. but, they still let their dog roam. it is a matter of time before it will not make it home.
the point is, most dog owners that i know and talk to do will not change their behavior to save their dog.

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