NV vs. FLIR advise

TV308

Member
Hello all, I have been a long time lurker here and have learned alot from the cumulative experience on this forum. I am contemplating the purchase of my second night hunitng aid and have a few questions....

I hunt in South Texas brush country (4K acres to roam) and mainly hunt hogs. I have a D740 Pinnacle and love it. I run it on a suppressed R25 .308 that I had cut down to 16" and added an adjustable gas block to. My method of hunting is feeding senderos/roads at dusk then heading out after dark driving (in an electric golf cart) from road to road, stopping on the downwind side,to look through the 740 for potential targets.

I have ~5k to spend and would like to stay away from gen 2 or digital....should I go with a PVS 14 with laser and helmet set up which would allow use of a second Weapon for an additional shooter as well as navagation or LS64 or MLS618 which I understand are killer for detection? My concern with the thermal is that during the summer temps can reach >110 during the day and not cool down much below 90 at night...i'm sure the roads/brush/rocks hold alot of heat for quite a while after a hot day so will this interfere with critter detection?

Thanks
Tom

 
I am not a fan of anything but a dedicated NV scope so cant help there & dont like helmets or weight on my head. Lots of the pvs14 users here can help you better than I on that. I also have the D740 and the IR that goes with it thats adjustable and ran about $179.
I do have a PS32 thermal, my calling brother has that & the LS64. I can say even out here in WY the heat retains in shrubs/trees/rocks til after midnight, even in the winter, BUT you can still pick out animals especially if they are on the move. Its when they get into the heavy brush thats almost as glowing as the animal that you run into the "Where did it go" syndrome. The ls64 is much sharper and can pick them out better IMO.
Shop/call around for much better deals also.
 
hello TV308 and welcome to the forums! quite a nice sized hog you have there!

you will find someone on here that has about any combination of equipment you can think of. others can tell you more than I about the thermal and the heat in Texas, but it is something you have to get used to looking through and the different settings allow you to compensate for some of that.

many swear on the laser and helmet mounted NV and your budget should cover most of that (PVS, helmet, laser and IR), but you may have to add a tad before you are done. and you still won't have any thermal. you are going to want both before you are done...
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Hi TV308, that is a nice boar you nailed there....

In your case, I don't think you need anything but a PS-32 or LS-64 FLIR thermal to detect and pick out your hogs from your golf cart. The PS-32 will detect virtually anything the size of a hog out 1/4 mile and the LS-64 more than twice that if they are adjacent to your feeders or crossing the road.

You already have the NV optic to make the ID and the shot, so all you need is a better more reliable method to detect them, either of the FLIR handheld thermals will do that for you.

The helmet mounted PVS-14 and laser you most likely do not need unless you need positive situational awareness of your general area while driving around and take quick shots at relatively close ranges.

I live in Florida and it is hotter than you know what here, not to mention the humidity. I hunt year round all the time and the thermals are somewhat sensitive to the heat and humidity but you learn to use them to their max advantage with some user experience. Under ideal conditions they are perfect, under less than ideal conditions they still get the job done.

Hope this helps you out some....
 
Originally Posted By: TV308Hello all, I have been a long time lurker here and have learned alot from the cumulative experience on this forum. I am contemplating the purchase of my second night hunitng aid and have a few questions....

I hunt in South Texas brush country (4K acres to roam) and mainly hunt hogs. I have a D740 Pinnacle and love it. I run it on a suppressed R25 .308 that I had cut down to 16" and added an adjustable gas block to. My method of hunting is feeding senderos/roads at dusk then heading out after dark driving (in an electric golf cart) from road to road, stopping on the downwind side,to look through the 740 for potential targets.

I have ~5k to spend and would like to stay away from gen 2 or digital....should I go with a PVS 14 with laser and helmet set up which would allow use of a second Weapon for an additional shooter as well as navagation or LS64 or MLS618 which I understand are killer for detection? My concern with the thermal is that during the summer temps can reach >110 during the day and not cool down much below 90 at night...i'm sure the roads/brush/rocks hold alot of heat for quite a while after a hot day so will this interfere with critter detection?

Thanks
Tom




VERY nice hog you have there and welcome to Predatormasters!

We have outfitted thousands of hunters, LE and Mil folks over the years. One thing to keep in mind is thermal is good for detecting something is out there with most of the handheld cheaper units. Thermals such as the T-50 and any magnified hi-res thermal will give you more resolution to ID targets a bit better. With NV though, (modern Gen 3), there is no substitute for the resolution you see at night for good identification.

As for using a IR laser on a gun and 14 mounted to your melon, that is absolutely the most effective way to employ and shoot with them for close in fast moving targets if that is what you plan on doing. Shoulder your weapon, keep your head up and shoot from the high-ready position is quite effective. In your case, you already have a dedicated NV optic so if you get a 14 and a laser you will have triple redundancy. You can scan for targets with a head worn system, engage him with our IR laser, or flip up your 14 and go to your dedicated NV scope.

Wearing a PVS-14 is also great for walking around as well. Of course the drawbacks is the 1.1x magnification of the 14 in which the hog you killed in your post, you would probably engage him at 200 yards or so with the 14 and IR laser or go to your dedicated 740 as I mentioned above.

In closing, you're correct about thermal in such environments you mentioned may be a concern as it's all about temp differentials. Of course it's also about movement of your target as well, as rocks usually do not move sorta speak.
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Give us a call if you wish, be happy to talk further details.

Vic
 
Thank you all for the welcome and the input....Shurshot is right I will probably EVENTUALLY end up with both the thermal and PVS 14 (I'm thinking birthday and Christmas....this stuff is more addicting than suppressors):). Since the brush here is not very conducive to walking around I'm leaning towards taking SkyPup's advice and go with the LS64 first. Vic I enjoyed looking at your website.....lots of wonderful stuff, when I'm ready for the 14 I'll definitely give you a call to me set up with an appropriate rig.
TV
 
Welcome! and again Nice hog! The golf cart will allow you to cover alot of ground. A nice IR light will help out with the D740, the torch pro or the t100c2 3.4w IR lights are both highly recommended. I have the t100c2 3.4w from illumination gear, they have been backordered for over 2 mths, friend of mine has been waiting. If you have not used the IR light you are in for a big surprise! I tried the PVS14 laser combo and close in works great, but longer running shots was not effective due to laser was dependant on background reflection which leading a running hog for a head shot(150yds+) was much better for me with the pvs14 4.5x lens and eotech. The 1 moa dot was floating in space just like the cross hairs in the d740, put the dot in the critters path, squeeze off a round, and watch him do a somersault
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. I am waiting on my ls64 to arrive any day now, I have the ms24/ps24 and thermal is a real game changer. If you don't have the IR light get that first and decide if that allows you to see all you need to see. Then decide if you want to equip second shooter with NV, when you have sounders of 4+ hogs, 2 shooters twice the fun
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. PVS14 zoom lens and eotech for 2nd shooter. If no second shooter head mount the pvs14 for driving and laser for surprise critter that appears.
 
Yeah, if you do not have a good IR light like the Torch Pro or EagleTac for your scope, get that first, then get the thermal handheld scanner...hog will die.
 
Originally Posted By: SkyPupYeah, if you do not have a good IR light like the Torch Pro or EagleTac for your scope, get that first, then get the thermal handheld scanner...hog will die.

Was not sure if all eagletacs have the same 3.4w stacked osram IR led's, so I listed where i got it from, just to be sure of the same performance. I will wait and see if mods see it as advertising.
 
For long range Night Vision scope applications, a TNVC Torch Pro or the LDI SPIR would be the absolute BEST IR Illuminators because they are both extremely powerful and focus-able.

The Eagletac is very good as a hand held IR flashlight or helmet mount or a weapon mount but it is not focus-able and tends to washout your immediate ground front with too much light, but is is a super deal any way you look at it.

My LDI SPIR is on the Brown truck now with delivery scheduled for tomorrow!
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http://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-spir-class1-infrared-illuminator/

http://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-spir-class1-infrared-illuminator/

BOTH of these IR Illuminators will provide NV scope range out to 1/2 mile.
 
Tom,

Since you have the D740 to shoot with I would go with a thermal detection unit....either the PS32 or LS64. I have the 32 and have no way to give you a comparison to the 64. I am sure that the LS64 would be better but it would take your entire budget allowance for a single unit.

I think the ranges you are hunting at might be the deciding factor. If you need long range ID the LS64 might be your best bet. If you just need detection then the PS32 would only take about half of your budget and you could add a long range IR emitter to your shooting rig and still have a lot left over toward the purchase of a PVS14. I have been using the PS32 hog hunting lately and it works very well especially since hogs have a very distinct profile. I have been hunting a large field with thick weeds and the PS32 should do the job for you in the brush.

As for the concerns about latent heat signatures that is something that you will learn to deal with after getting some experience with the FLIR unit. It seems that most guys want to use the red instalert mode and you will find it is not the best mode a lot of times. I probably only use it about a third of the time as the black and white modes give a better defined profile of the target and do not "blob" as bad at longer ranges. Once you use the unit you will find what works best for the ambient conditions and terrain you hunt. Rocks and bushes don't move so you will get used to looking for relative motion when looking thru the unit in black or white hot mode.

I also use an electric cart and it is a great tool for covering lots of acreage quietly and you will find that you are most likely driving by lots of animals once you get the FLIR. I have run up on packs of coyotes before running at night and scanning with the PS32. I think you will see your numbers go up significantly once you get a FLIR unit.

 
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Originally Posted By: Gman757Tom,

Since you have the D740 to shoot with I would go with a thermal detection unit....either the PS32 or LS64. I have the 32 and have no way to give you a comparison to the 64. I am sure that the LS64 would be better but it would take your entire budget allowance for a single unit.

I think the ranges you are hunting at might be the deciding factor. If you need long range ID the LS64 might be your best bet. If you just need detection then the PS32 would only take about half of your budget and you could add a long range IR emitter to your shooting rig and still have a lot left over toward the purchase of a PVS14. I have been using the PS32 hog hunting lately and it works very well especially since hogs have a very distinct profile. I have been hunting a large field with thick weeds and the PS32 should do the job for you in the brush.

As for the concerns about latent heat signatures that is something that you will learn to deal with after getting some experience with the FLIR unit. It seems that most guys want to use the red instalert mode and you will find it is not the best mode a lot of times. I probably only use it about a third of the time as the black and white modes give a better defined profile of the target and do not "blob" as bad at longer ranges. Once you use the unit you will find what works best for the ambient conditions and terrain you hunt. Rocks and bushes don't move so you will get used to looking for relative motion when looking thru the unit in black or white hot mode.

I also use an electric cart and it is a great tool for covering lots of acreage quietly and you will find that you are most likely driving by lots of animals once you get the FLIR. I have run up on packs of coyotes before running at night and scanning with the PS32. I think you will see your numbers go up significantly once you get a FLIR unit.



sounds like solid advice...thanks
 
Sounds like the LS may be overkill for what I do (even though it would be super cool to have the enhanced definition). I may rent a PS32 for a weekend and give it a try B4 I drop the coin. I have not (until now) considered an IR light source. With my 740 I can still shoot 150 yds with NO moon however it is grainy. I did some searching and called the guy i got my scope from. He has the IR-K2 pro that mounts directly to the 740 (this may be helpful to me since i do not have a railed handguard on the R25) and it has adjustable beam and windage/elevation. Runs on one CR123. I can get it for $199 shipped with remote pressure tailcap. Anyone have experience with this one?
 
Any of the IR Illuminators will mount to your scope, just make sure that it is an 850nm IR LED and not a 940nm one.
 
Originally Posted By: TV308Sounds like the LS may be overkill for what I do (even though it would be super cool to have the enhanced definition). I may rent a PS32 for a weekend and give it a try B4 I drop the coin. I have not (until now) considered an IR light source. With my 740 I can still shoot 150 yds with NO moon however it is grainy. I did some searching and called the guy i got my scope from. He has the IR-K2 pro that mounts directly to the 740 (this may be helpful to me since i do not have a railed handguard on the R25) and it has adjustable beam and windage/elevation. Runs on one CR123. I can get it for $199 shipped with remote pressure tailcap. Anyone have experience with this one?

The IRK2 is one of the better IR devices on the market and can be adjusted (windage/elevation) to coincide with the cross hairs on your scope. Regarding your other post about a good scanning device, there is some pretty good advice on this string. Only thing I can add is that you really don't have to go with a head mount for the PVS-14. You can just put it around your neck with the lanyard and hold it up to use as a hand held monocular. Arm will get a little fatigued at first but will build up over time. You can also take a peek at our MX-160 monoculars as a substitute for the PVS-14. We also carry the PVS-14s in several models. Give us a look before you buy (just click on the banner below). Kevin
 
Originally Posted By: TV308He has the IR-K2 pro that mounts directly to the 740 (this may be helpful to me since i do not have a railed handguard on the R25) and it has adjustable beam and windage/elevation. Runs on one CR123. I can get it for $199 shipped with remote pressure tailcap. Anyone have experience with this one?
I have the same one on my D740, got it from opticsplanet w/free shipping, they matched a lower price I saw on ebay. I went that way since its a straight screw on, has windage & elevation knobs on the base, so no messing around with any other IR needed. Its a VERY good IR and have shot with a pal who has 3 of other top brands & its just as good as them.
 
Am definitely getting the IR illuminator.

Here are a few more pics with the D-740....

My son loves it





On my Blackout SBR with the SDN-6



On my 18" .308 with the Cyclone



Tom
 
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