.204 for Coyotes

Gentlemen! Gentlemen!
I was being sarcastic. Of course I know the .204 is a potent gun and I haven't heard any of this stuff the other guys are spewing...except of course from THEM. I can understand their fear, though. I guess if I was shooting a forgotten round with a lesser BC or buying new barrels every 3-5 years I would be concerned that they might stop making those bullets/barrels altogether, because it's time acknowledge the new kid on the block. Oh, and by the way...I'd wager that if all the 17 Rem. guys read they ARE NOT killing 'yotes they'd be throwing down something awful. I got buddies who stack 'em (yotes)like cord wood with 17 HMRs and 17 Rems. Someone is full of something. How's that for a little medicine? Gulp.
 
BCB,
What could you possibly have against the .204? It's a gun. You wrote "David Letterman's 10 Things List"...full of suppositions, twisted facts and well...other non-facts. Numbers, show us numbers of what it WILL DO. Meanwhile guys are STILL killing, yes killing coyotes with their .204s. I read all kinds of stuff...it's not always right. We like our .204s. We like to talk abouth THEIR caps and lims. Why are all the forums cluttered with these "attacks". You gotta give it one thing, it is without a doubt the most controverial round to come out in a while. When I bought my .204 I never said all other guns are crap. I have those other guns,too. I just wanted to see if I could use THIS gun on coyotes. My experience and others experiences CLEARLY prove that this gun can be used successfully on coyotes. Reports again and again speak of small entry wound, no exit at 100 yards on out. These are facts. Do we have to make good shots to get kills? Sure...and now we have a gun that can do just that.
 
Rattler you aint listening.

[Gentlemen! Gentlemen!
I was being sarcastic. Of course I know the .204 is a potent gun and I haven't heard any of this stuff the other guys are spewing...except of course from THEM. I can understand their fear, though. I guess if I was shooting a forgotten round with a lesser BC or buying new barrels every 3-5 years I would be concerned that they might stop making those bullets/barrels altogether]

1.Silverfox reports 28.5% runners of dogs shot.
2.Bob Addy sold his 204 because he had way to many runners.
3.VM reports runners with his.
4.Q – he is never wrong- ha

When I started this game way back when I was using a 250 shooting Sierria Match HPs that were bombs. They were blowing on impact- big holes on the outside-
Dogs running off. Hides were worth $$ back then so this was bad deal. Bought several different bullets- FMJs-SPs-Solid Base HPs . Loaded a batch of each & went hunting. Well the Nosler match HP solid base was about as good as it gets.
No blow ups- killed them running away – running at me – broadside- shoulder-no matter.

ON PAPER the Sierra was the better bullet –(highest BC- more energy) but it flat sucked on dogs.

The first year we sold over $3600.00 worth of hides.
About half were coons- a few cats, the rest were dogs. I think we averaged 24 to 25 dollars a hide. The next 3 or 4 years were about the same. I quit when the bottom fell
from the market. Killed dogs with 22LR-22mag-222Mag- 250- Swift-243-270-300WM & STW.

Exterior Ballistics- FPS-BCs –FT lbs of energy – Means very little when the bullet does not perform.
Take a firecracker lay in on a beer can & blow it up then take a firecracker & blow it up inside the can. Ha- SEE what I mean.

The other extreme is the FMJs – again the energy is wasted.

Having said all the above I think the 204 is a very cool little round.
If someone comes out with a bullet that will do what I want – break bone- not splash – Well I may have to have one.

Each to his own /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Luck
Stumped
 
I wasn't going to get into this discourse again after my first two entries, but will just drop a few words here.

Bayou City Boy, I really enjoyed your Ten reasons why the 204 Ruger is not an effective coyote killer!! I had to say about 10 GREAT BIG AMENS as I read that!!! Good job and spot on in my humble opinion!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Stumped-- My experience with "runners" this past fur season is far from conclusive because of such a small sampling--only 7 coyotes. I don't think that is enough animals to draw any real conclusions--IMHO. Besides, my "runners" didn't get away and I didn't need a hound dog to track them down. So, perhaps the two coyotes that didn't go BANG/FLOP were BANG/RUN A LITTLE BIT/FLOP since they came home with me without another shot being fired at them!!!

Bob Addy--I read over the information you posted about your 5-month test of the .204 Ruger. I didn't see where you told us whether you were using the 32 gr. V-Max, 40 gr. V-Max or some other brand of factory ammunition. What were you using? Correct me if I am wrong here, but it appears that you shot somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 maybe 12 coyotes and 6 of those were runners, with one lost completely. Did you begin to think that maybe your bullet might have been somewhat at fault for all those runners???? Just my opinion, but I think there are better bullets for fur hunting than the V-Max. Yes, I know many of you have had great success with the V-Max, but have you tried the 35 gr. Berger FB HP? For someone to say
Quote:
The truth about the 204 comes from actual in the field use. I gave it a real go except for reloading.


kind of smacks of an oxymoron (like "jumbo shrimp" and "government intelligence"). IMHO, you DID NOT give the .204 Ruger a "real go" if you didn't do some reloading, but then in your opinion, perhaps you did give the caliber a "real go"--so be it.

Once again, the argument about which caliber is "best" is really up to the individual shooter. I guess bullets fall into that same category somewhat as well. For me, I like the .204 Ruger and the .17 Remington for coyotes. My 22-250- and .243 rifles will sit in the closet gathering dust. Both the .204 Ruger and .17 Remington have proven to be fine coyote rifles for the kind of calling and shooting I do.
 
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rattler:

You're not reading very carefully.

Try reading my post again and see if it is not filled with ten non-valid reasons that folks have posted at various times as to why the 204 Ruger or any 20 caliber will not kill coyotes.

For the record, so you can maybe understand why I wrote those things:

1. Have you ever heard of sarcasm?
2. I have been shooting 20 caliber rifles for quite a few years. Long before most of the rest of the world became aware of them last year with the introduction of the 204 Ruger.
3. I am aware that all I posted in "Letterman Form" is full of mis-information. That was my point. That is also Letterman's point.
4. Have you ever heard of sarcasm?
5. I hand swage my own 20 caliber bullets and did long before the 204 Ruger was introduced and long before there were the 20 caliber bullets curently available to reloaders.
6. I know that the 20 calibers will kill coyotes.
7. I do not know why so many are claiming it is not powerful enough to kill coyotes other than maybe they have not tried one.
8. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF SARCASM?

Part of the problem that some have experienced with bullets splashing is what also happens with high velocity V-Max bullets in other calibers. They do not get inside to release their energy. It is a bullet problem - the current bullets are designed mostly for the "Shock and Awe" varmint crowd.

Now read the last of my post and see if you can see that I'm defending the 20 caliber - tongue in cheek - because a lot of what has been written about the 20 calibers is mis-information. Some of it is valid when bullet performance is discussed.

Last - calm down and catch a good full breath of air - clear your mind - and read my post again. - BCB
 
Sorry BCB,
As you can probably tell I posted that rebuttal at 1:00AM After a night shift. My sarcasm also went undetected (by some)on my earlier OATH post. You referred to a poster that often attacks others choices of weapons and I launched. We so often get away from the actual science of ballistics with our passions for shooting. I'll try to stick to the numbers and BDA in the future.
 
Rattler:

Looks like my 1:54 PM response to you got zipped in the brief PM Board shut down this afternoon. So, I will post again in a nutshell what I said then:

1. Debates like this will go on and in the end everyone will shoot what they are comfortable with. It's kinda' like the age-old 270/30-06 debate or which length spear best slays a wooly mammoth - never ending.

2. The most efficient 20 caliber cartridge IMHO is the 20 Tactical. You get the same velocity as the 204 Ruger with less powder and you can use good IMI or Lapau 223 Rem brass.

3. I'm glad Hornady/Ruger put a factory 20 caliber on the market so this debate can flourish, and I'm glad you saw my real intent after re-reading my earlier post. I've been a 20 caliber fan for quite a few years as well as 17, 22, etc., etc.
- BCB /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
I've never in well over 100 coyotes seen a single one go further than 15 yards when shot with a 6mm or .243. Even marginal shots anchor them. I spent the last two days with a #1 in .204 and it flat out nukes rockchucks (not to mention crows, feral cats, and the single coyote I shot at about 225 yards.) I'm very impressed with the .204 when it comes to terminal ballistics, and I may even buy one, but I still don't think it's enough gun to ANCHOR yotes reliably. Again, will it kill them? Absolutely. Will it usually drop them? I think so. But, I don't even put it in the same class as the 22-250 as a yote gun, and the 6mm's are still king of the Coyote guns! ~6mm
 
[ 5. I hand swage my own 20 caliber bullets and did long before the 204 Ruger was introduced and long before there were the 20 caliber bullets curently available to reloaders]


BCB
I have the Left Hand curse so most times what I want is not available.
I got tired of it so I have what I want built. Thinking about a small bolt switch barrel in several cals. How do your hand-swaged bullets perform? Do they stay together?

The 20s look really cool – flat shooting- wind bucking – no recoiling – fun shooting little rifle- but I will not spend the $$ if I have to shoot what I refer to as little bombs.

Tnks
Stumped
 
Stumped:

Hopefully someone will soon make a good durable 20 caliber bullet. When that happens, then the true strengths of the 20 caliber - flat shooting and hard hitting - will be realized. The secret is in the jacket used.

I have not had problems with bullet blow ups with what I hand swage, but I have not shot hundreds of coyotes with them either, so who knows. I do know they will get inside a coyote and in some instances go clear through without a lot of mess. And the coyotes don't run far if at all. A different bullet I swage will make a mess of PD's, but I don't plan to shoot coyotes with it.

I can relate to you being left handed. I'm in the same boat, but could never get used to a left-handed bolt gun after learning to shoot with a Savage bolt action 22 many years ago.

6MM:

Good to talk with you again. It was obvious from your posts last week that you don't like the 204 for coyotes, so you adding your comments doesn't surprise me.

On the flip side, one of the few coyotes that ever got away from me was about 25 years ago. I hit him a little far back and split him wide open. The last I saw of him he went over a hill tangled up in his own guts. I trailed him for several miles and ran out of snow cover before giving up. He was hit "around the fringes" with a 243 Winchester.

Maybe the bigger cased 6MM Rem would have anchored him on the spot, but I doubt it. Me, not the caliber, caused the result. I have also lost a few with a 22-250 and a 223.

I also saw one hit by a friend with a 264 Win Mag about 15 years ago at @ 100 yards that kept going for some reason.

I suppose if I wanted to be very narrow minded because I wanted to totally defend my 6.5-284 as the "perfect everything", I could make an arguement that none of those calibers are adequate for coyotes either - for one reason or another. I would like to think I know better, however, and really see no need to defend anything as the "perfect choice".

You obviously have always been able to place your shot and get it done completely if you have never lost a coyote with a 6MM, or with any caliber of rifle.

So for every answer, there's more questions. As I told you last week - whether you buy/shoot a 204 Ruger or a 375 H&H at coyotes won't affect my life in the least. Its just fun to discuss the issues and none of it is life threatening or that important in the grand scheme. Again, enjoy your 6MM.

I plan to enjoy my 20 calibers, and my 17's, my 22's, and all the rest. I'm getting old enough, though, that the heavy magnums aren't my favorites for an afternoon of shooting any more. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
- BCB
 
"Hopefully someone will soon make a good durable 20 caliber bullet. When that happens, the the true strengths of the 20 caliber - flat shooting and hard hitting - will be realized. The secret is in the jacket used."

Amen to that!

- DAA
 
Guns001.jpg


The 32 grain V Max puched all the way throught this lumber! So,I would respectfully suggest that if you are having dogs run off you may have either missed them or shot clean throught them without hitting bone. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Lots of factors. And I'm not interesting in either defending a position or arguing against anything. I have my own opinions, which are always evolving and subject to change. But I generally prefer not to share them on the Internet. Ain't worth the trouble (perfect example, right here...).

Suffice to say though, I'm a big fan of the .20 caliber. And I have shot coyotes with the 32 Vmax, and couldn't imagine performance much worse, than what I experienced. Coyotes shot to doll rags and still needed a boot stomp. I wasn't using a .204 Ruger though, so my experience really doesn't apply to this conversation anyway.

Using the larger cases, like I am, and having shot some coyotes with the 32 Vmax, I'm anxious to see th kind of bullet BCB outlined made widely available. And I do expect we'll see them on a production basis, sooner rather than later. Of course, there are much better bullets for coyotes, in my application, available right now. But, I agree with BCB that there is still a lot of room for big improvements. And, the real point, is that I agreed with him 100% that the strength of the .20's lies in flat trajectory and hard hitting terminal performance, and that the primary weakness of the current production bullets is in the jackets.

- DAA
 
For all you guys are BUYING and spending $$$$ on these new Cal, Ruger loves you.!
I stick to my 15yr old Win70 in .223 rebarrel in S/S
 
DAA:

Wish I had your will power.

Every time I see one of these discussions, especially dealing with the sub-calibers, my brain loudly says, "Don't get involved."

The next thing I know, my fingers are telling my brain to shut up and to help them type. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif - BCB
 
DAA try the 40 grainers in .204 IF you get a chance.
PDS. Cool stick with your .223. Solid Choice.
P.S. Ruger doesn't love me, I bought a Savage.
Sticking to the numbers from now on.
 
I am buying a 204, mostly because I want to. I also bought a 17 because I wanted too. I reload and shoot often because I want to. I have a swifty because I want to. does anyone see a pattern here. I hunt because ..... you got it! I want to. There is no perfect cartridge only ones that work for you. Use the one you like and be happy. I do because I WANT TO. the most important thing is to get the youth involved. I am buying a 204 for recoil purposes I want my kids to be able to shoot and have fun. I may try it on yotes or I may stick to my AR for them it just depends on what I want to do. I cannot tell anyone if the 204 is a great cartridge but it sounds fun and most importantly, I WANT TO.Just my humble views on the matter sorry to spoil the fun.
 
I am confused now thanks to all you guys! I know the guy at my local gun shop will set me straight and convince me to buy one now. So--- he must be the last great "know it all" answer to my questions. Wish me luck in the field!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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