Silverfox the tournaments went alright this year no wins but some decent payouts. Studing for midterms is correct Got out on sunday around here and smacked three all of them were paired up. The weekend of the March 15 i will be out closer to your area had a rancher call me and ask for some help before calving season goes into full blast. He has had some problems in the past. Then that will be it for me.
I agree with Snowbound you don't want to get me started on snowmobiling coyotes i'll just keep it civil.

Tougher than a whale!! Lots smaller and quicker!!

Out of respect for the moderators of this forum and the responders to the subject matter I respectfully pull my previous comments. I very possibly went way over board on this issue ..............

It would be a sad day if I saw a drunk 16 year old and his buddies snowmobiling coyotes!

Michael, agree or not with the sno go and the coyote deal is one thing. I for one would have to see the ranchers situation before makeing judgement. But to assume they are drunk and all is IMO just wrong. I wonder if any of us were ever 16. To far back for me to remember. Not trying to tick anyone off but if they are not breaking the law, and not wasteing the fur and there is a predator problem then judgement is not mime to pass.

God Bless America
Trapper_1977

PS: I heard at the trappers meeting last night that WY just opened/or will soon a wolf season.

Out of respect for the moderators of this forum and the responders to the subject matter I respectfully pull my previous comments. I very possibly went way over board on this issue ..............

Michael J McCasland. What you just did takes a hell of a lot of character for one to do. You show a great deal of respect for this site as well as the people that come here. My hat is off to you buddy..

Something that you guys need to know about Michael. He is one dedicated sportsman. He is also a fine gentleman. This subject does strike a nerve with him just as each of us have nerves that get struck about other "things". We call them "Pet Peaves". He is very interested in the integrity of the board and the image that we set forth to the all seeing public eye as well as beginners and newbies as to the subjects we talk about.

This particular subject is to say the least extremeley controversial. It has been approached in other forums and got extremely heated and even resulted in some lashing out from member to member.

Please take the time to consider this and let's try to put this thing to sleep for the good of the board as well as our image. .... Thanks>>>>. James L.

I have to echo what James Lindley says. I have a great deal of respect for Michael, his ethics and his efforts to promote predator hunting.

This subject always generates a lot of emotional posting. Different methods are legal, accepted and used in different places.

We at PM try to promote predator hunting through, legal, and ethical, means with the concept of fair chase. Our quarry should be given the respect any game animal is given.

Unfortunately the coyote enjoys dual status. He is a worthy and challenging game animal who earns our respect everytime we hunt., by beating us or by presenting us with a real challenge. On that basis we give the coyote his due.

He is also a predator and sometimes his activities conflict with ranchers,pet owners etc. Then he is a pest that needs to be eradicated.

Let's not confuse these two things. The methods of dealing with a pest have nothing to do with hunting or fair chase.

This board is about hunting. We come here to learn and to share our successes and failures. If we are to continue our interest,we had better try to show each other a better way to hunt instead of just running the other guy down. We have people outside our circle doing that full time,
every day.

So Coyote Buster,someone suggested getting off the sled and calling. It's good advice and a lot of fun.

You've told us you're sled is faster than a coyote,now show us you can outsmart him.

Hey guys sorry that i caused such a ruckas about the snowmobiling deal. I would like you all to know that we are never drunk when we chase them with sleds though. I already do a great deal of calling but when i amfeeling wild i drag out the sleds so like i said sorry about causeing problems and i dont want to bash heads with anyone else over this ok.

Well said Redfrog. I can't think of wild animal I respect more than the coyote, but I also am a realist and know they wreak a terrible toll on livestock in the right situation. Many state legislatures have agreed to allow harvesting or killing (however you want to say it) coyotes by many different means. I will not ostricize an individual for pursuing and taking an animal in a legal manner. I may not agree with it but that is the freedom we have in this country.

I still think it's unethical to run down a coyote on a snowmachine, truck, motorcycle 4 wheeler or any other vehicle. Just because it's legal doesn't mean its ethical!!

And yes, the laws do still apply for animal cruelty, it doesn't matter what species the animal is or where you are, if it constitutes animal cruelty then it IS animal cruelty. I am surprised at some of the comments on this... Who'd of thought???

As most of you know I usually keep my mouth shut on these issues and am not one to be out spoken about my beliefs. I would also never want to ruffle anyone’s fathers. As a matter of fact I found that it is much easer to get along if I were amoral. That being said I just couldn’t help my self. Please accept my deepest apologies for what I am about to do but somebody has to say it.

Well let’s just start here.

MI VHNTR

[QUOTE]I just shoot any coyote, anytime that I get a chance. As a matter of fact, everyone else here does the same thing.[/QUOTE]coyotekrazy

[QUOTE]A Coyote Poem....

I shoot yotes so they will die,
If I can, I shoot them in the eye,
Sometimes I shoot them in the grass,
Sometimes I shoot them in the @$$,

They spin and swirl and jump around,
But sometimes they just hit the ground,
I call them in with screams of terror,
sounding like a dying hare (or)....

Maybe I’ll sit still you see,
Looking like a bush or tree,
Then thinking they’ve just found a meal,
They’re last thought is, “Hey! what’s the deal?”

They’re brains are spewn among the brush,
The purpose? Just for me a rush,
I don’t care if they’re hide is mange,
I leave them rotting on the range,

Back to nature, the way they should,
But not the ears, they’re too good,
Those things can be turned into cash,
In my freezer there’s a stash,

When the price is right I’ll cash them out,
Stuff my wallet without a doubt,
Hope I’ll find the biggest bounty,
Searching for a generous county,

When greenies cry about motherless pups,
Fear not, we’ll shoot them too,
It don’t rhyme, but hey...
It’s what we do.[/QUOTE]redrider

[QUOTE] Why should I give a murdering coyote a break? I go to save rabbits, quail, pheasant, deer, elk and any other prey species that I might want to hunt. They do no good deeds and they are in direct competition with me and my hunting succes.

I would also like to say if indeed it is war on coyotes then a wet bitch is better to me. I show no mercy to them or there soon to be murdering pups. I say if you do in a whole pack with one bullet its all the better for the other critters in the neiborhood.

I only feel like this towards coyotes.[/QUOTE]After all of this bright and intellectual commentary only a few days ago I read this today.

Bob/SoCal

[QUOTE] Hunting coyotes by running them down with a snowmobile, motorcycle, truck, ATV, or anything else for that matter may be legal in your state, but here on Predator Masters it is frowned upon. Why you ask? Ethics are ethics, we prescribe to those that respect the animal we hunt, whether it be coyote, fox or bobcat. Running them down is cruel.[/QUOTE]LMFAO Sense when did PM give a flying….. I mean give a hoot about ethics. If that were even remotely true you moderators were asleep at the wheel when the above comments were made. LOL That is too funny. Bob, "buddy," I am glad that you said it and not me. I would have been burned at the stake for “Preaching” and trying to force my home grown morals upon others.

James Lindley

[QUOTE]Something that you guys need to know about Michael. He is one dedicated sportsman. He is also a fine gentleman. This subject does strike a nerve with him just as each of us have nerves that get struck about other "things". We call them "Pet Peaves". He is very interested in the integrity of the board and the image that we set forth to the all seeing public eye as well as beginners and newbies as to the subjects we talk about.[/QUOTE]I missed out on his original posts but all I can say is I am damn sure glad someone is interested in the “all seeing public eye” but where does being interested get us? We can’t very well stop what is legal can we? This being an open forum we can’t stop people from bragging about activities that are highly controversial can we? Every time someone speaks up about something that IS controversial pertaining to ethics we get a slurry of knuckle dragging chest beaters infuriated at the fact that someone might think that a particular activity is WRONG and/or shall I say “unbecoming of a sportsman.” It reminds me of the bra-burning feminazis of the sixties. They are so outspoken about their “rights” that they over look our “image.” Personally I don’t care what they think or do. I do care about what they make predator hunters out to be. REAL “hunters” not killers.

Redfrog

[QUOTE]We at PM try to promote predator hunting through, legal, and ethical, means with the concept of fair chase. Our quarry should be given the respect any game animal is given.[/QUOTE]“Through legal and ethical means.” I am not pretending to be stupid but what the hell does that mean? If it is “legal” then who is to argue whether it is ethical or not. The only thing that may even possibly be considered unethical is if you break the law. If you break the law you are unethical aren’t you?

It is a damn shame that we don’t know the difference between right and wrong and what is ethical and what is not. I once said, [QUOTE]“Making moral decisions about hunting is not up to us. Our morals are our Laws silly. if it is legal then it is moral and if it is illegal then it is immoral. The government decides for us what is moral or not. That burden should never fall on out shoulders?”[/QUOTE]At the time I wrote that I was being sarcastic but the more I think about it the more I think it is the truest thing I have ever written.

It is very hard to argue a point when they are arguing apples and we are arguing oranges. Here is a shining example.

Jack Roberts whom I would expect more from said this.

[QUOTE] A couple people who adamately condemn, out of fur season, hunting coyotes, have no problem accepting government money to do it out of fur season. The two most vocal opponents of, out of fur season hunting, that I know of, both do it gladly for government money.

They do not practice what they preach, why should we?[/QUOTE]Where the hell did that come from? Where did John Henry ever and I mean ever say it was not ok to hunt coyotes out of season if it was for ADC work? When did the government start paying him to shoot coyotes if there was not an actual problem? He does adamantly practice what he preaches and if he doesn’t I have never seen any proof of it.

I have been accused of redundancy but it is not out of ignorance. It is done simply in an attempt to make my stance clear. I can’t seem to do that. I will try again. I think that it is WRONG to hunt coyotes during puping season as well as running them with sleds, UNLESS it is for a valid damage complaint. I am with redfrog when he said, “Our quarry should be given the respect any game animal is given” “This means coyotes.” I am very much in agreement with Michael J. McCasland if he truly is “very interested in the integrity of the board and the image that we set forth to the all seeing public eye as well as beginners and newbies as to the subjects we talk about.”

Here is another quote that bothers me from drscott.

[QUOTE]I believe the root to this hole discussion is fur prices are starting to creep up and trappers and shooters in it for fur don't want their next years population to be decreased any. goes back to what makes some people tick it seems... greed. Just my 2 cents worth.[/QUOTE]Greed? You want to talk about greed? Your side seams to think that the only good coyote is a dead coyote because as Redrider says it “They do no good deeds and they are in direct competition with me and my hunting success.” It sounds to me like you people want them dead because you want all the other game that the coyote MIGHT be taking from you for your self and to hell with the people that want the coyotes right? You shooting one extra pheasant a year is more important to you than the welfare of a whole den of coyote pups. For the price of one of those coyote pups this year I could buy 5 chickens that would taste better than a damn pheasant!!

If anybody is greedy it is you. I have no problem with competition if it is done during regular hunting season. I would imagine you would be upset if I was shooting your local pheasant population out of season wouldn’t you? You would be equally enraged if I just left them there to rot? Well that’s what we fur hunters and trappers think of you when you kill and waste an animal that is valuable to us. The problem is that it is illegal to kill pheasants out of season. There are also salvage laws on the birds prohibiting them from being left to rot. We fur hunters and trappers do not have the luxury of laws for the most part to protect our interests and from the sounds of it you people don’t even have the common courtesy to look out for those of us that do.

Everyone seams to think that they are over run with coyotes and that they NEED to be controlled. Coyotes are everywhere they are in plague proportions they are eating everything. They are bloodthirsty killers. They are this they are that. It is for the most part a bunch of crap. I must live in a bubble because I see nothing that would lead me to believe any of this. We have tons of pheasants and deer and other wildlife. We also have a ton of coyotes. I shoot a ton of coyotes every year. If coyotes were such a problem in other areas then why are people not getting as good or better kills on them than I am? Maybe it is because it is a figment of their imagination.

No one has EVER said that if you shoot coyotes in the summer that they will endanger the species or that by killing a handful here and their will have any affect on the overall population, to the contrary. Coyotes are not going away now or ever with the use of conventional means. Population densities are localized, that is a given. It is also a nice little clause to hide behind when you get cornered. In “MY” area we are getting ate out of house and home. It may or may not be true but I am confidant that it is widely overstated that coyotes are killing all of the other game that you hunt.

This is a predator hunting board. I was under the impression that we were looking out for the best interests of predator hunters. I would like to see us do that. Truly I would. How can we though? Every one here seams to hate John Henry with a passion that runs to the bone. John is very militant about his views and they are reflected by the way he runs his board. He has rules and if you don’t fallow them you will get booted plain and simple. It would go against every thing that freedom of the press stood for if we would enforce rules in a manner that John does on this comertial site so how do we deal with the public eye? That is the question that should be very important to all of us.

In no way do I want to fallow Johns foot steps. I am totally against censorship in any way but I propose this. When the subject of killing coyotes comes up and people start taking pleasure in the fact that they like to leave them rot or that they like to run them over with snow machines and trucks and ATVs or they step over the line in any other way perhaps the moderaters should send them a curtisy letter.

An example that would come to mind would go like this. When Coyotekrazy wrote his poem I would think a letter like this would be appropriate.

Hello coyotkrazy, I saw your post today in the Members club house and found it quite interesting. I understand and respect your position concerning hunting coyotes in the summertime but we would also like you to be a little more sensitive to the younger members of the board as well as to all of the soccer moms that may be dropping in to see what predator hunting is all about. Because PM is in the public’s eye we would only ask that you show a little more discretion in your posts. As you know hunting is a privilege to most of us and not a right. We at Predator masters would like to keep our beloved sport in the best light possible. I think you understand and respect our position on the matter. If we all do a little together we can do a lot.

Thank you for your cooperation on this matter and I hope to see more of your post in the future!!

Yours in sport.

PM moderaters.

I think that we can curb a lot of questionable behavior by a nice little courtesy note. I don’t think coyotkrazy would be offended by it at all. It would not be censorship at all it would just be a diplomatic and appropriate way to help up hold the image of predator hunters as “sportsmen” not selfish killers.

I am no angle that is for sure. I have posted things that I regret and I have deleted things that I have said. I once told of shooting a coyote with my 50 BMG that a friend of mine caught around his calving lot. If I could find it in the archives I would delete it because it was inappropriate “to do” for one and more so to talk about on a public forum. I was also reminded that it wasn’t cool to post my some of my seasons takes of fur on a public forum so I took them down with no regrets. Every one needs a few checks and balances once in a while including me. When I am wrong I will admit it. Sometimes it takes a while to get it through my thick skull but I will usually come around. That being said do you think that it would be out of line to try and curb a little of the going-ons around here when subjects like running coyotes and other sensitive issues come up? It sure aint much but it would be a nice gesture.

Well I will now step down off of my soapbox and pass it on. I am sure by now I have made it to the top of someone’s “PEOPLE TOO KILL” list. LOL so I will retire my thoughts for a moment. You might think that I have reached well beyond the scope of the original post and you very well may be right but to me it is all one, ethics, morals, values, image and courtesy. They should all be addressed.

Nothing personal, just politics.

Good hunting.

Q,

Well said Q. There are a lot of poeple that share your view point, Q. I for one am glad you voiced your view point. We definatley need to watch what each one of us posts, who knows who reads them.

Q-Wagoner says: "I would also never want to ruffle anyone’s fathers. As a matter of fact I found that it is much easer to get along if I were amoral. That being said I just couldn’t help my self. Please accept my deepest apologies for what I am about to do but somebody has to say it.

Well let’s just start here."

MI VHNTR

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just shoot any coyote, anytime that I get a chance. As a matter of fact, everyone else here does the same thing.
--------------------------------------------------
Q-Wagoner then says: "After all of this bright and intellectual commentary only a few days ago I read this today."
**************************************************
After more regurgitated rhetoric, we get the closing statement: "You might think that I have reached well beyond the scope of the original post and you very well may be right but to me it is all one, ethics, morals, values, image and courtesy. They should all be addressed.

Nothing personal, just politics."
**************************************************

I DO NOT accept any "apology" for your pseudo-intellectual and sarcastic comments. You start with a half-hearted attempt at an "apology", then proceed to make disparaging comments about people that don't agree with your "politics", calling other people's views "bright and intellectual commentary". You sound very condescending, to say the least. Further, because someone doesn't blindly follow your biased and slanted views, you proceed to tell US how to correct our errant ways, while you blindly stagger along, spewing your "gospel of truth." We need to be corrected, while YOU can say/do whatever YOU want? I don't care too much for that type of pompous, arrogant attitude. Speaking of attitude, it's pretty apparent where your loyalties lie, no doubt about that either. Another thing, your "courtesy and image" bit, is laughable at best.
I am a predator hunter. This makes me "politically incorrect" in many places, even at a "predator hunting board" that determines when people can hunt. Rest assured, I don't care who likes it, nor do I care who dislikes it. I will apologise to noone for it either. Since I do not want to start a war of words here, you can email me if you want to continue your diatribe. Rest assured, you will not win. MI VHNTR