Thoughts on MT.Lions

Coyote Slayer 1

New member
Well here is a new twist to think about as if we did not have enough another Big cat sighting along with tracks that are being checked and some data that there about 6 to 8 of these kittys running around the state do we really want them here. so here is where the thought part comes in LOL LOL.

1.If there are indeed 6 or 8 schould state F&G put them down so we have one less big game killer.

2.Waite till they go on the kill any time list of corse by then there will be a lot of them out there and more Bou. and sheep will pay the price just what we need.

3.Or just do nothing and wait till there is enough to have a season on and become the 5th on the food chain.

Well something to think over while we are waiting for seconds on turkey and yes I would love more stuffing Please >>>
 
There are Mt lions here in SE MT. I dont have a permit to shoot one but, after reading a few stories, I will be watching my backside.
 
I would think the best thing to do is to Immediately have open season on them NOW ... best fo Both worlds. Like we really need another fanged predator doing the slaughter?

Where have these sightings been, and when??

Cas
 
The last was north of Fairbanks along with Pic's of the track that has been sent to different people to give there Ideas on rather a Lion or Big lynx one sighting on the coast, a few different sightings in Denali one sighting near tangle lake area and I am not sure of the date but one was shot more than a few years ago in the park by a trapper and taken to anchor town it was said then it was a pet that escaped who really knows. John do you remember the date and year of this.

The way F&G works a open hunt is not going to happen if it is not on the list I would rather do a lot of things other than shoot one of these cats unless you went by the three S law and because of the size of ground to cover it would be a daunting task it would really fall into the needle in a hay stack list IMOP! well just food for thought >>>
 
Hay Slayer
I am not sure as I do not have a copy of the regs in front of me, and I cannot find it on the net. But isn’t there a section in the book that says that there is no season and no limit on non-indigoes game to Alaska. If this is the case if you see one you could blast it.
 
Wow! I did not read this post cause I thought it was a canadian one. These are my thoughts. If mountain lions ARE here then I guess mother nature wants them to be here. True they are a predator and the fate of the bou and moose is in the balance I guess, I'll admit I have not followed this issue very much so am not sure what is happening, that is just the impression that I get. Any who, I really dont think it should be our decision to eradicate these things. Control them sure, just as we do yotes, wolves, bears ect. Yes the above species are causing damage to the plant eaters, but nature always works it out, along with us hunters! I think mountain lions are beutiful along with wolves and all the other predators. Its a real pleasure to sometimes sit back and watch these animals as well as hunt them. Me I would love to see a mountain lion every now and then and if my kids live here when they are older I want them to enjoy them also. Dont get to mad at me, I would like to see a season on them if they became established ( wich I really dont think would happen for awhile if at all) but at the same time I would like to see one now and then to witness a trully amasing hunter. I heard that thre were mule dear sightings up north there as well, I asked fish and game if I could shoot one and they said no. They are not considered exotic non native wildlife, there is a blurb in the regs that says "if the species is not listed you may not hunt it" (that is verbatim) You can note that they do mention swine, starlings, pidgeons, rats ect.. as exotic wildlife. Finally Id like to add that I hope the mountain lions are here to stay! They would just add another element of excitement to calling, Bears for the most part arent around when we go calling, what fun is that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Matt
 
Ok rimfire I will cut you a bit of slack LOL LOL LOL LOL you are right about the wording if it's not in the book you can't do anything execpt go to Jail /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif and the Deer are a bit different as they will add to the state and not take away from it.this will not be a flame poast at all just info OK!!!!!!! as to Griz and calling just get a hold of me and I can put up and close to a Griz if more people took Bears this would fix a lot of problems but not many want to buy the $25 dollar tag. As to wolves well here is a different problem with its owen cause and effect A wolf, one will eat twelve moose a year and 36 Bou you can do the math now times that by 15 to 25 in a pack that is a lot of people bitching that they did not get a moose or bou this up comming year.

Now if we were talking about a Sabertooth Tiger I would go along with you they have a right to be here and were here a few million years ago the lion was not with all the problems that have been caused by miss mangement I would see no problem eather but the 13 Bou heard was all moast a heard of the past due to tear one a few years ago 40 mile was a lost cause but has made a preaty good come back due to wolf control the unit 12 woodland heard the only one of its kind will be gone in three years if we can not put a plan in to play they are down to 300 animals and spend there time on Fed land during the calfing season I just don't see a need for a new big game killer at this time and if you want to add coyotes in to this there is about 150,00 to 160,000 at the start of each spring and the state will tell you that they think they eat sheep the last study that was just finished it took 4 years and showed that 39% of lambs were taken by Coyotes in the study area and that was in the Alaska Range I hunt wolves preaty hard but I never want to see them gone and I take more than my fair share of coyotes and I would not like to see them gone eather but lions are a whole different thing as they just got Here and we are talking about 6 to 8 Just my two cents worth I hope you did not take this as a flame poast that was not what I wanted to happen I just wanted to give you a bit of back ground to sift through I hope you have a great day >>>
 
25.00 Tag? I would buy one in an instant if I thought I had a good chance at a griz. I suck at big game hunting haha! You can email me anytime to invite me on a griz hunt! Oh yeah and wolves too! Your post was well worded and no offence taken, like I said I really had no idea what the issue with plant eaters and predators was. I just like mountain lions. Plus everytime I try to get a moose or a bou I come up empty so I figured they were extinct anyway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Im hell on the rabbits and grouse though. Plus I dont think everyone should get too excited about these things, I personally think the sightings will turn out to be false. later, RIMFIRE. Oh yeah got a rabbit today with the .17, I think I was to close, ny shot hit low and pretty muched skinned the rabbit for me! The back legs were still okay though.
 
Coyote Slayer -

Nope I don't recall much about that Denali cat thing. Vaguely but not enough to know. I do know that the F&G put that "not listed in the regs can't shoot it law" as a result of an individual here shooting a deer here in Tok. Got them a bit upset as others since it would be nice to have that one more critter around. Not so sure on the big cats. Know of a giant one found in Watson Lake a bit back.
 
CS,

I remember about ten years ago hearing on the news about a fella that shot one in the Wrangle Mountians, and a few years back a story in the news paper about a trapper having one in a snare also in the Wrangle Mountian area.

Todd
 
You and John may be right on the area I have a hard enough time keeping up with the wolves LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL I guess old age is catching me after all. I remember the deer that was shot down your way and a guy went off the road here on shaw creek flats to miss one with a truck god that was easy 15 years ago well lets just hope we do not call in one have a great nite >>>
 
so im starting to get the feeling that there might be lions around.
In the summer of 2001, two seasonal staff members on the
Kenai National Wildlife Refuge were together driving down
Swanson River Road. Suddenly, on the road ahead of them
appeared an unusual animal. After crossing the road, it
paused in the vegetation at the edge of the road long enough
for them to get a good look at the animal, which they
described as a large, long, brown cat with a long tail. They
claimed it definitely was not a wolf, coyote, or lynx.

Was this merely a mistaken identity of a common animal from
persons unfamiliar with Alaska wildlife? Then what about
similar reports from longtime residents?

A number of years ago a 30-plus-year peninsula resident --
someone familiar with bears, wolves, coyotes and lynx -- also
reported seeing a large, long, brown, cat-like animal with a
long tail crossing Skilak Loop Road. And from his house,
another longtime peninsula resident, also familiar with the
area's wildlife, watched an unusual-looking animal at the far
side of an open field for more than 10 minutes through a
spotting scope. The description he gave was of a large, long,
cat-like animal with short ears that periodically switched its
long tail back and forth.

In yet another incident, a man reported that his dog rushed
up to his house obviously frightened, barking and looking
behind. At the edge of the forest nearby the man reported
seeing crouched a large, brown, cat-like animal with a long
tail, which then got up, turned broadside, and walked away.

What are these people seeing?

These are several of the best reports to which I personally
listened during my years as supervisory biologist at the
refuge. I have heard of other reports, but did not interview
the observers.

The people I talked with had several characteristics in
common. First, they were not seeking publicity or fame, did
not want their names mentioned for fear of ridicule, and they
appeared to me to be telling the truth.

Second, they usually said, "You're not going to believe this,
but I know what I saw," and they were convinced that they
had seen an animal out of the ordinary.

Third, with the exception of the two seasonal refuge staff
members who were not Alaska residents, but were competent
observers, most observers were residents of the peninsula
familiar with area wildlife. One said it was a "mountain lion,"
another said it "looked like a mountain lion," and yet another
person said "it was a very large, long, brown cat, definitely
not a lynx."

What are these people seeing? Is it possible that mountain
lions could naturally reach the Kenai Peninsula?

Mountain lions are slowly expanding their range northward in
Canada. Not too many years ago, the northern limit of the
mountain lion was in British Columbia and Alberta. However,
an updated distribution map now shows the mountain lion in a
small area of the southern Yukon, and there is a verified
record of a mountain lion in the Kluane Lake area.

There are even occasional reports of mountain lions in the
southern part of the Northwest Territory.

On November 25, 1989, the first confirmed mountain lion in
Alaska was shot in southeastern Alaska four miles from
Wrangell. A second mountain lion was found dead in a snare
on southern Kupreanof Island in Southeast in late December
1998. In 1999, the Juneau Empire newspaper reported that
two Alaska Department of Fish and Game employees had seen
a mountain lion at close range in 1992 in broad daylight on a
road near Yakutat.

Mountain lions -- usually subadults -- are certainly capable of
dispersing over long distances. A Canadian research biologist
said he had seen their tracks crossing glaciers and icefields in
mountains in Canada and had occasionally known
radio-collared mountain lions to disperse to unknown areas.

Another possibility is that someone could have accidentally,
or intentionally, released a captive or "pet" mountain lion on
the peninsula.

Could a mountain lion survive on the Kenai Peninsula?
Mountain lions in southeastern Alaska could probably prey on
deer, but they can also prey on moose, the most abundant
wild ungulate on the peninsula.

Ian Ross, a Canadian biologist who conducted research on
mountain lions in Alberta, is one of the few researchers who
have studied mountain lions in habitat occupied by moose as
well as by elk, white-tailed and mule deer and bighorn sheep.
In 1996, Ross reported in the journal Alces that in the winters
in his Alberta study area, moose were important prey of
mountain lions.

Fourteen percent of 312 kills of mountain lions that he
examined were moose. All of the moose killed by mountain
lions were young moose less than 20 months old -- calves
and yearlings -- and more than a third were in very poor
physical condition, based on the fat content in their bone
marrow. No adult moose were killed by mountain lions, but the
lions scavenged from the carcasses of four already dead adult
moose.

Both male and female mountain lions, and subadults, killed
young moose despite the fact that many young moose
appeared to be accompanied by their protective mothers
when they were preyed upon. The defensive behavior of the
cow moose was not enough to thwart the attacks.

Ross found that moose contributed 30 percent of the biomass
consumed by mountain lions in winter.

But because of the poor condition of the moose killed by
mountain lions, he concluded that mountain lion predation on
moose appeared to be "compensatory," meaning that the
chances were high that the moose that were killed by the
mountain lions would have died anyhow.

Finally, the climate on the peninsula would not appear to be a
limiting factor for mountain lions. Mountain lions inhabit areas
as cold or colder and areas with greater snow depths than we
normally have on the western Kenai Peninsula.

So, do we have a mountain lion on the peninsula? Do we have
a breeding population of mountain lions on the peninsula?
Scientists remain skeptical until they are confronted with
hard, preferably physical, evidence from a trusted observer.
This could be a good clear, close, authentic photograph,
casts or photographs of tracks in the snow or mud, scats
(feces) or hair confirmed by DNA analysis to be from a
mountain lion, or the most conclusive evidence -- a carcass.

I became familiar with mountain lion tracks in the snow,
having observed them in previous studies in Idaho and
Montana. I have seen hundreds of tracks of lynx on the
refuge over the years but have never observed what I
thought was a mountain lion track.

During most years of the 1990s, we captured many lynx for
research purposes on the refuge with trained dogs. These
same dogs were previously trained to trail and tree mountain
lions for research purposes in the state of Washington, but
we never encountered a trail of a mountain lion on the refuge
while using the dogs.

So what do I think? I do not believe that there is a breeding
population of mountain lions on the peninsula -- there have
never been reports of females with kittens -- but I also find it
difficult to just outright dismiss the periodic descriptive
observations of some apparently sincere peninsula residents.
Therefore, I would not be terribly surprised some day if
someone provides the hard evidence, in whatever form, that
may confirm that a mountain lion is -- or was -- present on
the peninsula.

Ted Bailey is a retired refuge wildlife biologist who has worked
on the Kenai Peninsula for more than 25 years.

He maintains a keen interest in the peninsula's wildlife and
natural history.




E-mail this
Story
a friend
E-mail a message
to the editor
Read our
paper
on your PDA
Have our Headlines
e-mailed to you

Discuss this story in our Discussion Forum

Comments or questions?
For questions about the website contact the web master at Kenai Peninsula Online
For questions or comments about the news Peninsula Clarion Editorial and Newsroom Content

Box 3009
Kenai, AK 99611
907-283-7551
Copyrighted by Peninsula Clarion, a Division of Morris Communications
Privacy and terms of use.
 
Back
Top