Thanks to those of you who filled out a hunt-data card. Double thanks to those who put both their real name AND their board name on the card; that really helped at times. TRIPLE thanks to those who filled their card out clearly and completely!

The data compiled may be incomplete. Every effort has been made to reconcile omissions.

Some problems:

A few did not turn in cards.

On "Who did you hunt with on day x", one wrote "Kevin". (I think we had four Kevins at the hunt).

On "Who did you hunt with on day x", one had a check mark.

On "Who did you hunt with on day x", one wrote "Reservation".

And so it went....... hours were spent cross-referencing cards, attempting to fill in the missing information. Here is the results of my best efforts, which, unfortunately, is no better that the information I was given.
(NOTE: Information entered on this board by hunters, but not turned in on the hunt-data cards, was not used, as I had no computer available to me during compilation of the data.)

Hunters (counting those I know of who did not turn in a card): 28 + NASA and TJ, who arrived too late to hunt.

Hunter-Party-Days, ON reservation: 13
Hunter-Party-Days, OFF reservation: 15
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Hunter-Days, ON reservation: 23
Hunter-Days, OFF reservation: 41
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Coyotes seen, ON reservation: 25
Coyotes seen, OFF reservation: 28

Foxes seen, ON reservation: 2
Foxes seen, OFF reservation: 3

Bobcats seen, ON reservation: 0
Bobcats seen, OFF reservation: 2

Lions seen, ON reservation: 1 sighting, 3 lions.
Lions seen, OFF reservation: 0
----------------------------------
Coyotes killed, ON reservation: 3
Coyotes killed, OFF reservation: 5

Foxes killed, ON reservation: 1
Foxes killed, OFF reservation: 0

Bobcats killed: 0

Lions killed: 0

Critr, I don't recall where they hunted, but didn't Pup and Onis get pictures of the 3 lions they saw? They may not have called them in, but they did eyeball them, right?

You are correct, NASA. I was considering it one, but...................

See my edit above. Thanks.

Critter, Tyler and I got side-tracked while filling out the card, sorry for the confusion. Tyler and I called in 17 coyotes off reservation for our two hunters, Tom Moore on Fri. and Doug K on Sat and Sun. AM

Rich, you blew the curve in school too didn't ya? hehe.. One of these days, I've gotta get you to come out to the East side of Mesa and show me how you do that.. I heard many a tale at the hunt of your exploits, but I never got a chance to talk to you at the luncheon.

Thanks, Rich. I had counted up 5 from your card and your hunters' cards. The data above are now corrected to reflect your total sightings.

Should "hunter days" be divided into "# of Teams" / hunting groups on a per day basis rather than by # of total individuals participating ?


Otherwise you would also want to "multiple count" the number of coyotes to match the duplicated hunter effort.

Critter-- sorry to cause the confusion. Robb--- HUH? Wolverine- you have a wonderful opportunity to expand your horizons tomorrow night. The lovely Jay Nistetter is presentng a lecture with video at the Mesa Varmint Callers at the FOP on Main st. You will learn to set up stands next to your vehicle, how to call without camo, and how to smoke cigarettes on stand and still call in coyotes. I think admission is 5 bucks for non-members.

RE: HUH?

(haha)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

So lets say W@W and I were calling at the PM hunt and we saw 10 coyotes.

would it be 2 hunter/days efforts that equaled those 10 coyotes...

or really a TEAM effort (which might only be slightly better than 1 hunter days effort) regardless of # of ppl in the team (since overlooking the same ground) that should be calculated against those 10 coyotes

or is it that since we had 2 hunters/days efforts (again overlooking the same area, but still effort exerted is being counted apparently) that we should count those 10 actual coyotes as 20 coyotes, per the effort ?

What Im saying is that the HuntersDays efforts that have been counted arent mutually-exclusive... they have tremendous overlap and therefore the effort needs to be adjusted.

I'm gittin' real hard of hearin', Robb. (See the message icon.)

Ok Ill say it louder then:


YOUR "HUNTER EFFORTS/DAYS" ARE BEING COUNTED AS MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

ARE YOUR "COYOTES SPOTTED COUNTS" ALSO MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE ?

I THINK YOUR STATS MIGHT BE OUT OF BALANCE

W = ∆Ek + ∆Ep = (0.5mv2 + mgh)f - (0.5mv2 + mgh)i

Yeah but Robb, I think your calculations are incorrect.

You see, if you use the above formula to calculate the amount of work (W) done per hunter group, you will notice that the amount of work varies depending on the miles per gallon (mpg) that each coyote gets + the latest windows media player version (mv2) multiplied by the fur quality (f). Now subtract from that the latest windows media player version plus the average miles per gallon of each hunter (mpg) (taking into account the mpg of each vehicle owned by said hunters) and this is subsequently multiplied by the inginuity (i) factor of each hunter which as we all know is a relative measurement of how successful a single hunter is in his "home" calling environment under ideal conditions.

So, if we simply modify 'i' accounting for the non-standard deviation in terrain from the hunter's "home" calling area we will surmise that this is really not worth worrying about as it's not going to be on the test at the end of the hunting season. (Which, I might add, is year-round here in AZ, therefore, no test.)

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Edit: You didn't expect me to pull all that out of the ole rectal database in one try did you?

While no method is "perfect" Some methods give results that are closer to the truth than others.

Effort, Harvest, and Visual Counts are some of the "basic numbers" that are fed into equations that are used to calculate population densities (or even twisted into comparitive Hunter Skill)
This is why the SC Res asks us for these specific numbers, its not arbitrary.

I bumped up some links to "online courses" in the Biology Forum that you might find interesting in relation to effort/results discussions

Just a little clarification:

In case anyone is lurking and looking for more info on Jay's Presentation tomorrow night...

I believe the Mesa Varmint Callers are now known
as the Arizona Predator Callers. They have a website with more details on time and place etc...

Rich,
Are you going to hit Jay's presentation this evening? I'm still trying to find a way to get there. The Mrs. has plans so I'll have to swing a babysitter if I'm going to make it...

Well, it isn't a game animal, but I got startled by critter during the hunt:

Crapshoot and I were setup in a wash doing some calling, and we eventually broke the stand since CS had to take care of nature's call.

I decided to kill time by shooting crickets on a stump that was in the middle of the wash. After about my third shot I hear some thrashing of branches and catch some motion above and to the left of me. About 20 feet away this huge, and I mean HUGE owl came out of the tree flew across the wash (30 feet wide or so) about 10 feet off the ground and through the branches of a tree on the other side. Barreled right through those braches he did, I thought he was going to break a wing.

The thing was light grey in color with darker spots and had about a four foot (yes, four feet!) wingspan. It startled me enough that I almost needed a change of underwear. :eek:

Glenn

Wolverine, Tyler and I have to work this evening. Take the kids with you, these clubs are famly affairs. I really hate to miss this. Jay is a real pistol, always entertainng, but he is so knowledgeable that it's always educational spending any time with him.

Rich,
Ended up making it to Jay's presentation. You are correct, Jay's a good guy. Brought some video clips that included such infamous names as Fred Cronk and Rich Higgins. He showed us a segment where you and he were just filming (no guns) and had around 5-6 coyotes milling around.

Jay provided tons of great information. I like his philosophy of predator hunting, "I'm a recreational hunter, if it's work, I'm not interested."

Great fun, thanks for letting me know about it. Be sure to tell me when you'll be speaking, I'll make sure I'm there.

OK,OK!!! So I hassled Robb enough about the data on hunt-partys. See revised data, Robb, first item at the top. I think this is what you want. And, yes, the OFF-reservation partys tended to be much larger.

Good grief, I hope nobody uses our lousy hunt results to run statistical analyses. :rolleyes: Just the data is bad enough..............

BTW, I am loaded and headed for Tennessee today. This is my last time on the board for maybe a week. Have a good-un, guys!!! Gonna see mama soon!