Brass for accuracy

Originally Posted By: EJ ReichenbachOriginally Posted By: travjcBest choice being, send several once fired cases to you die maker of choice and have them make you a FL die to suit your gun. No chance of adding issues like things not being perfectly true. Unless you have the proper equipment to precisely remove mateial, at best you will be several (ie .010+/- or more) off of being perpendicular to the case centerline. Not something that bodes well for accuracy, unless of course you have one of those Hornady case straighteners.....
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Seriously, just get the dies made, your gun and case life will both reward you in the end.


I was being sarcastic, I think the gun has a fairly tight chamber, the hornady die screwed all the way down and in a quarter turn wouldnt even bump the shoulder back. Had to go by some RCBS dies and then it was all good, and yes all brass was fired in same gun

Even though I mis-took what you were saying, Im sure someone with less experience may have thought that to be a proper solution. Just trying to nip that one in the butt.
 
Originally Posted By: travjcI suppose the only way this would be feasible for Mr JOE KING would be if for some reason, his original shell holder was mis-machined and was larger than this .125" measurement. This simply could be proven by him with some simple measurements. With all the mass produced stuff out there, it's quite possible for something to slip through QC. As most of us in the reloading world already know, this phenomenon of non-existent QC is becoming rather common, maybe a new normal. I concur with CatShooter on this, some measurements, and reference to what he is using could very well prove his case.

I have had dies that were loose in the body and tight in the body - long in the shoulder and short in the shoulder - but I have NEVER had or seen, or heard of, a shell holder that was off of 0.125".

Never grind a shell holder (or die bottom), unless you have a surface grinder (a very expensive toy).

But (and I say this with trepidation), you can lap the surface of a shell holder if there is no other solution possible.

Get a piece of plate glass about 8" square. Get some 600 grit wet&dry silicone-carbide paper, and some G-96 oil.

Put the paper on the plate glass. Oil the carbide surface of the paper.

Take the shell holder and run it in standard lapping motions of figure 8's about 10 times, and then rotate it 1/2 turn and do 10 more. Then measure the depth from the top surface to the shelf that supports the case head. Do that until you have what you need - keep in mind that shell holders are H-A-R-D... and it will take a while.

I made one for my 222 box of competition shell holders (yes, Joe King, I actually own them).

When you modify a shell holder, make sure you mark it so it will never be confused with a standard one. I use red Sharpie pens

See pic.



Comp-10.jpg




The red one is 5 thou shorter than standard (0.120").


.
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: travjcI suppose the only way this would be feasible for Mr JOE KING would be if for some reason, his original shell holder was mis-machined and was larger than this .125" measurement. This simply could be proven by him with some simple measurements. With all the mass produced stuff out there, it's quite possible for something to slip through QC. As most of us in the reloading world already know, this phenomenon of non-existent QC is becoming rather common, maybe a new normal. I concur with CatShooter on this, some measurements, and reference to what he is using could very well prove his case.

I have had dies that were loose in the body and tight in the body - long in the shoulder and short in the shoulder - but I have NEVER had or seen, or heard of, a shell holder that was off of 0.125".

Never grind a shell holder (or die bottom), unless you have a surface grinder (a very expensive toy).

But (and I say this with trepidation), you can lap the surface of a shell holder if there is no other solution possible.

Get a piece of plate glass about 8" square. Get some 600 grit wet&dry silicone-carbide paper, and some G-96 oil.

Put the paper on the plate glass. Oil the carbide surface of the paper.

Take the shell holder and run it in standard lapping motions of figure 8's about 10 times, and then rotate it 1/2 turn and do 10 more. Then measure the depth from the top surface to the shelf that supports the case head. Do that until you have what you need - keep in mind that shell holders are H-A-R-D... and it will take a while.

I made one for my 222 box of competition shell holders (yes, Joe King, I actually own them).

When you modify a shell holder, make sure you mark it so it will never be confused with a standard one. I use red Sharpie pens

See pic.



Comp-10.jpg




The red one is 5 thou shorter than standard (0.120").


.

I don't hardly post much, because I mostly don't have much to say, but I read this site four or five times a week. i love handloading and i love to read catshooters posts. HE doesnt cut and past junk from other sites, he has done it and has the teeshirt. I get tips hear that you can't find in the handloading magazines.
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: travjcI suppose the only way this would be feasible for Mr JOE KING would be if for some reason, his original shell holder was mis-machined and was larger than this .125" measurement. This simply could be proven by him with some simple measurements. With all the mass produced stuff out there, it's quite possible for something to slip through QC. As most of us in the reloading world already know, this phenomenon of non-existent QC is becoming rather common, maybe a new normal. I concur with CatShooter on this, some measurements, and reference to what he is using could very well prove his case.

I have had dies that were loose in the body and tight in the body - long in the shoulder and short in the shoulder - but I have NEVER had or seen, or heard of, a shell holder that was off of 0.125".

Never grind a shell holder (or die bottom), unless you have a surface grinder (a very expensive toy).

But (and I say this with trepidation), you can lap the surface of a shell holder if there is no other solution possible.

Get a piece of plate glass about 8" square. Get some 600 grit wet&dry silicone-carbide paper, and some G-96 oil.

Put the paper on the plate glass. Oil the carbide surface of the paper.

Take the shell holder and run it in standard lapping motions of figure 8's about 10 times, and then rotate it 1/2 turn and do 10 more. Then measure the depth from the top surface to the shelf that supports the case head. Do that until you have what you need - keep in mind that shell holders are H-A-R-D... and it will take a while.

I made one for my 222 box of competition shell holders (yes, Joe King, I actually own them).

When you modify a shell holder, make sure you mark it so it will never be confused with a standard one. I use red Sharpie pens

See pic.



Comp-10.jpg




The red one is 5 thou shorter than standard (0.120").


.

I get the feeling you'd make taking a chit sound like a complicated affair lol.
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted By: tawnoper

I get the feeling you'd make taking a chit sound like a complicated affair lol.
lol.gif



Some of us actually take paper off the rolls and use it - that's complicated - you gotta read instructions.

Others take the simple way and just pull up their pants without wiping.

The reloading manual that came with your "Junior reloader kit" must have kept you awake for weeks.


.
 
Some people never learn the reality of shortcuts, and some people never notice the difference. Reminds me of the saying "Ignorance is bliss"
 
Cat,
what's the intended purpose for the Redding Competition shellholders?
My only guess would be using the same sizing die for more than one rifle/chamber, without changing the lock ring adjustment?
So, I could set my FL sizing die for a .002 bump on a case used in one rifle, and I could change the shellholder and get a .002 (or more [longer]) bump on a case of the same caliber in a different rifle?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: fw707Cat,
what's the intended purpose for the Redding Competition shellholders?
My only guess would be using the same sizing die for more than one rifle/chamber, without changing the lock ring adjustment?
So, I could set my FL sizing die for a .002 bump on a case used in one rifle, and I could change the shellholder and get a .002 (or more [longer]) bump on a case of the same caliber in a different rifle?

fw707...

There two main reasons for the comp shell holders. If you have a match chamber (but any chamber applies)... and you are using a FL die, or a body (aka "Bump die"), when you need to control the amount of contact between the case and shoulder, instead of trying to adjust it by screwing the die in and out and trying to get luck and get within a thou... you crank the die down on the shell holder(s).

Then you start with the +.010, and see if that is right - if too tight, you go to the +.008 and try a new case (not the saem one cuz double sizing will give you false indications).

You keep "sneakin' up" on the case length, until you hit the one that gives you the feeling that you want.

The second use is in making wildcats. I got a 20x223 improved (aka 20 "Tac") and in forming, you need to push the shoulder back. But I didn't want to just run them through the die and take what came out - I wanted a real tight fit on the first firing, so there would be "0" case stretch.

So I did the same as above - I formed one (with an old LC case), using the +.010, and the bolt wouldn't close on the case - then I went down the list until I got a real hard crush fit - turned out that the +.004 was the right shell holder. Then I ran a few hundred Lapua 223 cases through the die and made my test loadds. If I would have used a standard shell holder, I would have has 1 or 2 thou head space, and that would lead to the beginning of a head separation... now I might be over doing it a bit, but at $1.00 each for Lapua cases, I am careful.

You are also right (good thinking), if you have several rifles, and need a tight fit with a body or bump die, you just set them all to hit the shell holder, and then use the comp holders to control the headspace
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I hope that explains it - if not ask again.

.
 
Originally Posted By: Hunter GathererGot several boxes of once fired brass shot from a Remington 700...most I believe is Winchester. I'd hook you up with it for postage. I won't ever use it and don't load 7mm mag
i'll take it if you still have it
 
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