NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy...
- Thread starter GC
- Start date
Sparrowhawk
New member
GC,
No pics of patterns, just a few generalized questions.
I've a 28-in. Xtrema2. I finally got around to actually patterning it a bit lately and it seems it shoots low left at 30 & 40 yards with everything.
Come to think of it, I've always done better on flying targets moving right to left, and a turkey I busted a couple years back trotting left to right had a lot of Hevi-Shot 6s in its crop and breast at 42 yards.
In Tennessee, we must shoot "T" and smaller for coyotes, etc., btw I dig the idea of 54 4 Buck for coyote, alas it is not legal in these parts.
Should I ask Beretta for a different bbl., or plop an Aimpoint Micro on it and zero it? I'm currently shooting with a Tru-Viz bead. Got other SGs I can use for bird hunting. Also do you have general data on Xtrema2s with 3-in v. 3.5-in.?
No pics of patterns, just a few generalized questions.
I've a 28-in. Xtrema2. I finally got around to actually patterning it a bit lately and it seems it shoots low left at 30 & 40 yards with everything.
Come to think of it, I've always done better on flying targets moving right to left, and a turkey I busted a couple years back trotting left to right had a lot of Hevi-Shot 6s in its crop and breast at 42 yards.
In Tennessee, we must shoot "T" and smaller for coyotes, etc., btw I dig the idea of 54 4 Buck for coyote, alas it is not legal in these parts.
Should I ask Beretta for a different bbl., or plop an Aimpoint Micro on it and zero it? I'm currently shooting with a Tru-Viz bead. Got other SGs I can use for bird hunting. Also do you have general data on Xtrema2s with 3-in v. 3.5-in.?
GC
Well-known member
Point of aim/impact issues aren't too uncommon, thus my constant harping about patterning, patterning, patterning before hunting. You don't mention how much low left? Does your particular gun come with stock shims to help adjust point of impact? Depending upon severity of the situation Beretta might take care of it... however, Beretta isn't well known for their friendly customer service. Good thing most Beretta users seldom actually need customer service!
Stock shims might take care of the problem if it isn't too severe. If it is more than the shims could manage and the factory won't address the issue, that leaves you with adjustable iron sights or a glass sight of some sort as probably the best solution. There are elliptical chokes made to also help adjust for this sort of problem if it isn't too severe, but they are custom order jobs and very expensive. I don't see them as a great alternative for a general purpose gun like this as the cost would be prohibitive. With a standard Full choke how far off is the pattern at 13 yards and then again at 40 yards?
Stock shims might take care of the problem if it isn't too severe. If it is more than the shims could manage and the factory won't address the issue, that leaves you with adjustable iron sights or a glass sight of some sort as probably the best solution. There are elliptical chokes made to also help adjust for this sort of problem if it isn't too severe, but they are custom order jobs and very expensive. I don't see them as a great alternative for a general purpose gun like this as the cost would be prohibitive. With a standard Full choke how far off is the pattern at 13 yards and then again at 40 yards?
Rich Cronk
New member
My Beretta Extrema2 has an adjustable stock. Looking at the owners manual, adjusting cast on/cast off and etc. looks too dang complicated for me. A job for a gunsmith I think. I have always aimed my shotguns as though they were rifles anyway, and with the extremely tight patterns I want, then sighting becomes critical. I had a second bead installed several inches rear of center, and I use the rear bead as my rear sight. Once the correct bead size is found, the vertical impact point is fairly well taken care of. Lucky for me, I didn't have a right or left point of impact problem.
various pellet weights
REM HS "B" 8 gr/pellet
HS Goose "B" 8.5 gr/pellet
HS Dead Coyote "T" 12 gr/pellet
REM WM HD "BB" 9.3 gr/pellet
HS 12g/cc "BB" 11.1 gr/pellet
#4 buck plated 20 gr/pellet
BPI buckshot "B" 8.75 gr
"BB" 9.41
"BBB"9.99
"T" 13.98
"F" 15.57
Nickel-plate "F"14.9
REM HS "B" 8 gr/pellet
HS Goose "B" 8.5 gr/pellet
HS Dead Coyote "T" 12 gr/pellet
REM WM HD "BB" 9.3 gr/pellet
HS 12g/cc "BB" 11.1 gr/pellet
#4 buck plated 20 gr/pellet
BPI buckshot "B" 8.75 gr
"BB" 9.41
"BBB"9.99
"T" 13.98
"F" 15.57
Nickel-plate "F"14.9
JCnAR
New member
GC, this has been a very informative thread. Thanks for getting it started. I do have a question that goes back to the very first posts. I noticed most all of the test results were with different loads in the tactical shotgun with the .680 choke. The only results with the Turkey Gun were with the .660 choke and the #4 buck. I can't help but be curious as to why you didn't try both chokes in both guns and run all the loads through for comparison. I'm sorry if this was covered and I somehow missed it. I'm just curious. Thanks.
GC
Well-known member
Originally I did shoot both guns with a .660" and a .680" choke. Later I also tried a .670" and found sweetness there. Fiddling around some since, I think that a really good general rule of thumb is a good starting place is somewhere from .050" - .060" of constriction from the particular bore size of your gun.
JCnAR
New member
Thanks GC! I figured you tested like that but was curious because you mainly posted results from the Tactical with the .680 choke. I had started a little chart to monitor your results which I thought might give me some ideas. I was most interested in how your Tactical compared to the Turkey gun with all those loads when using the same choke. Do you remember if the extra 5.5" of barrel made much difference in your patterns?
TripleDeuce660
Active member
I made it out today for some pattern testing.
Brand new Beretta 3901 12ga 28" Mobile Chokes. Added a Kickeeze rocker pad and glad I did! You guys with the 3 1/2" loads are nuts. The 3" is all I can take in a T-shirt.
Carlsons Dead Coyote Choke tube. Contacted Carlsons they said it is .665.
The load is 3" Wingmaster HD BB.
Fired from a sitting position leaning against my trucks tire. Just like I would do it in the field leaning on a tree.
Wind 5 mph perfectly left to right.
First I started at 40 yards with two shots Anything in this range is very dead.
Then I fired 6 of them at 50 yards. I got pics here of 4. The other 2 shots where about the same result.
Here is how they stack up. I measured squares from the orange dots which was my apporximate POA. 8x8, 18x18, the remainder of the target is about 48x48.
50 yards.
40 yards.
I believe I have a 50 yard gun. It might take a dog a little further but if I limit it to 50 I probably have a little room for error but not much. I think it would just be luck to kill one clean at 60 yards. 50 yards is good enough for this seasons hunting. Patterning is a pain in the butt.
Just a note on penetration. I had a plank of 2x10 across the bottom of the target board. Plus an old tire infront of that. It passed thru. I noticed they penetrated the tire, plank, and plywood target at 50 yards.
Its sort of hard to see but the pattern seems pretty well distributed. Pattern testing only tells the story of a still shot. If the dog is on the run its going to be different I'm sure. There is a cloud of death atleast 36" around at 50 yards from which no dog will escape aslong at its centered up on the dog and that is good enough for now. I am guessing that achieving 60 yards will be much harder.
The gun seems to shoot straight.
Left and right seems good.
The elevation is just about dead on at 40. I'm guessing at 35 yards it would of been centered perfectly. At 50 it seems to be dropping I had to aim a little higher. Every shot was a kill regardless of moving POA around on some shots.
How many BB's are in this load?
Brand new Beretta 3901 12ga 28" Mobile Chokes. Added a Kickeeze rocker pad and glad I did! You guys with the 3 1/2" loads are nuts. The 3" is all I can take in a T-shirt.
Carlsons Dead Coyote Choke tube. Contacted Carlsons they said it is .665.
The load is 3" Wingmaster HD BB.
Fired from a sitting position leaning against my trucks tire. Just like I would do it in the field leaning on a tree.
Wind 5 mph perfectly left to right.
First I started at 40 yards with two shots Anything in this range is very dead.
Then I fired 6 of them at 50 yards. I got pics here of 4. The other 2 shots where about the same result.
Here is how they stack up. I measured squares from the orange dots which was my apporximate POA. 8x8, 18x18, the remainder of the target is about 48x48.
50 yards.
40 yards.
I believe I have a 50 yard gun. It might take a dog a little further but if I limit it to 50 I probably have a little room for error but not much. I think it would just be luck to kill one clean at 60 yards. 50 yards is good enough for this seasons hunting. Patterning is a pain in the butt.
Just a note on penetration. I had a plank of 2x10 across the bottom of the target board. Plus an old tire infront of that. It passed thru. I noticed they penetrated the tire, plank, and plywood target at 50 yards.
Its sort of hard to see but the pattern seems pretty well distributed. Pattern testing only tells the story of a still shot. If the dog is on the run its going to be different I'm sure. There is a cloud of death atleast 36" around at 50 yards from which no dog will escape aslong at its centered up on the dog and that is good enough for now. I am guessing that achieving 60 yards will be much harder.
The gun seems to shoot straight.
Left and right seems good.
The elevation is just about dead on at 40. I'm guessing at 35 yards it would of been centered perfectly. At 50 it seems to be dropping I had to aim a little higher. Every shot was a kill regardless of moving POA around on some shots.
How many BB's are in this load?
Last edited:
JDolezal
New member
Originally Posted By: TripleDeuce660Fired from a sitting position leaning against my trucks tire.
You felt a lot more recoil that way, you took the normal give of your body out by putting yourself between the shotgun and truck tire.
I did the same thing when testing my "Dead Coyote" choke and ammo.
You felt a lot more recoil that way, you took the normal give of your body out by putting yourself between the shotgun and truck tire.
TripleDeuce660
Active member
Originally Posted By: JDolezalOriginally Posted By: TripleDeuce660Fired from a sitting position leaning against my trucks tire.
You felt a lot more recoil that way, you took the normal give of your body out by putting yourself between the shotgun and truck tire.
I did the same thing when testing my "Dead Coyote" choke and ammo.
I figured that one out on the very first shot. I was leaning forward cuz I knew it would crush me against the tire. It tossed me back like a rag doll! I had to REALLy lean forward, only my lower back touching the tire.
I might see about getting some extra gas valve springs for heavy loads. I hear they can reduce recoil and prolong the life of the reciever by slowing the bolt down.
Recoil always gives me a headache. Now that I adjusted pitch and LOP on both my shotguns the recoil is much better and I'm really smoking the targets.Alot less recoil to the face too.
You felt a lot more recoil that way, you took the normal give of your body out by putting yourself between the shotgun and truck tire.
I figured that one out on the very first shot. I was leaning forward cuz I knew it would crush me against the tire. It tossed me back like a rag doll! I had to REALLy lean forward, only my lower back touching the tire.
I might see about getting some extra gas valve springs for heavy loads. I hear they can reduce recoil and prolong the life of the reciever by slowing the bolt down.
Recoil always gives me a headache. Now that I adjusted pitch and LOP on both my shotguns the recoil is much better and I'm really smoking the targets.Alot less recoil to the face too.
JDolezal
New member
Originally Posted By: TripleDeuce660Originally Posted By: JDolezalOriginally Posted By: TripleDeuce660Fired from a sitting position leaning against my trucks tire.
You felt a lot more recoil that way, you took the normal give of your body out by putting yourself between the shotgun and truck tire.
I did the same thing when testing my "Dead Coyote" choke and ammo.
I figured that one out on the very first shot. I was leaning forward cuz I knew it would crush me against the tire. It tossed me back like a rag doll! I had to REALLy lean forward, only my lower back touching the tire.
I might see about getting some extra gas valve springs for heavy loads. I hear they can reduce recoil and prolong the life of the reciever by slowing the bolt down.
Recoil always gives me a headache. Now that I adjusted pitch and LOP on both my shotguns the recoil is much better and I'm really smoking the targets.Alot less recoil to the face too.
Yep I figured it out my first shot too. Like you I was wearing a t-shirt. I was shooting a Weatherby PA-08 I couldn't adjust anything! I tried resting my shotgun on my knee, I found out that too was a bad idea with a pump gun. My knee was on the mag tube and when I pulled the trigger the forearm took a nice chunk of skin off of my knee through my jeans. Glad I wasn't wearing shorts I might of lost a knee cap.
I sold that darn gun too. It felt good in the store but I couldn't hit a thing with it and the recoil was extremely harsh for some reason. My mossberg 500 never kicked my butt like that thing.
You felt a lot more recoil that way, you took the normal give of your body out by putting yourself between the shotgun and truck tire.
I figured that one out on the very first shot. I was leaning forward cuz I knew it would crush me against the tire. It tossed me back like a rag doll! I had to REALLy lean forward, only my lower back touching the tire.
I might see about getting some extra gas valve springs for heavy loads. I hear they can reduce recoil and prolong the life of the reciever by slowing the bolt down.
Recoil always gives me a headache. Now that I adjusted pitch and LOP on both my shotguns the recoil is much better and I'm really smoking the targets.Alot less recoil to the face too.
Yep I figured it out my first shot too. Like you I was wearing a t-shirt. I was shooting a Weatherby PA-08 I couldn't adjust anything! I tried resting my shotgun on my knee, I found out that too was a bad idea with a pump gun. My knee was on the mag tube and when I pulled the trigger the forearm took a nice chunk of skin off of my knee through my jeans. Glad I wasn't wearing shorts I might of lost a knee cap.
GC
Well-known member
JC,
The longer 24" barrel does pattern somewhat better. Now I also have a 26" barrel and have patterned it some too. It actually shoots just about dead even with the 24" barrel. Both will slightly outshoot the short 18 1/2" Tactical barrel. There probably isn't enough difference to worry about, though I might limit my shots at least five yards with the shortest barrel... if I thought of it in the heat of the moment.
TD660,
If I remember correctly there are 72 HD-BB's in that 1 1/2 ounce 3" load.
The longer 24" barrel does pattern somewhat better. Now I also have a 26" barrel and have patterned it some too. It actually shoots just about dead even with the 24" barrel. Both will slightly outshoot the short 18 1/2" Tactical barrel. There probably isn't enough difference to worry about, though I might limit my shots at least five yards with the shortest barrel... if I thought of it in the heat of the moment.
TD660,
If I remember correctly there are 72 HD-BB's in that 1 1/2 ounce 3" load.
Sweet info...I guess I was getting lucky this year. I paced off two clean kills this year between 70 and 75 yards....They were both three pellet kills..in the "good stuff". I also hit some that ran a hundred yards or so before dying. They were both one pellet kills. I live out on the northern edge of the owyhee desert so sagebrush is the only cover for the most part.
I don't have to try and follow wounded animals through the massive brush patches of Texas so I don't mind taking that long shot usually the second kill of the set. I would say that three pellets was sufficent for the #4 buck if they hit between the diafragm and the eyeball. Then again i killed 42 with my shotgun this season(november-febuary). And I was paying my bills with fur so....I wasn't messing around. I do think you are right about the chokes and loads and I thank you for your time. The info was most impressive and well though out.
I don't have to try and follow wounded animals through the massive brush patches of Texas so I don't mind taking that long shot usually the second kill of the set. I would say that three pellets was sufficent for the #4 buck if they hit between the diafragm and the eyeball. Then again i killed 42 with my shotgun this season(november-febuary). And I was paying my bills with fur so....I wasn't messing around. I do think you are right about the chokes and loads and I thank you for your time. The info was most impressive and well though out.
Sparrowhawk
New member
GC, sorry about the delay. Xtrema2 seems to be consistently throwing the center pattern about 4-5 inches left and about 6 inches low. Haven't shot it yet at 13 yards. Thinking I need to get a mount for it and plop an Aimpoint Micro or Leupold 1.5-5X on it and see it I can adjust POI to POA.
Last edited:
GC
Well-known member
Sparrowhawk,
There are a lot more point of aim issues with shotguns that many realize. I think if I needed to put some glass on one of my guns it would be a Burris FastFire II or Speedbead. They are just so compact and lightweight they don't mess the handling ability of the gun up at all. That seems to be the hot set-up for the turkey hunters with really great reviews. I think it should work great on a predator rig too. But everyone has an opinion and that's why there are so many options out there on the market.
There are a lot more point of aim issues with shotguns that many realize. I think if I needed to put some glass on one of my guns it would be a Burris FastFire II or Speedbead. They are just so compact and lightweight they don't mess the handling ability of the gun up at all. That seems to be the hot set-up for the turkey hunters with really great reviews. I think it should work great on a predator rig too. But everyone has an opinion and that's why there are so many options out there on the market.
JCnAR
New member
Originally Posted By: GCJC,
The longer 24" barrel does pattern somewhat better. Now I also have a 26" barrel and have patterned it some too. It actually shoots just about dead even with the 24" barrel. Both will slightly outshoot the short 18 1/2" Tactical barrel. There probably isn't enough difference to worry about, though I might limit my shots at least five yards with the shortest barrel... if I thought of it in the heat of the moment.
Thank you sir!
The longer 24" barrel does pattern somewhat better. Now I also have a 26" barrel and have patterned it some too. It actually shoots just about dead even with the 24" barrel. Both will slightly outshoot the short 18 1/2" Tactical barrel. There probably isn't enough difference to worry about, though I might limit my shots at least five yards with the shortest barrel... if I thought of it in the heat of the moment.
Thank you sir!
TripleDeuce660
Active member
Originally Posted By: SparrowhawkGC, sorry about the delay. Xtrema2 seems to be consistently throwing the center pattern about 4-5 inches left and about 6 inches low. Haven't shot it yet at 13 yards. Thinking I need to get a mount for it and plop an Aimpoint Micro or Leupold 1.5-5X on it and see it I can adjust POI to POA.
Have you considered the gun fit? Sounds like you need a different drop shim to raise the comb up maybe 5mm. That will raise your point of impact.
I'm going to guess you are a right handed shooter and the gun doesn't have enough cast for you . This is causing your eye to be slightly too far left. Confirm you have the shim set for the right handed shooter. If that is not enough then try relaxing your jaw when you mount the gun. That should allow your eye to move to the right relative to the rib and move your pattern to the right like you want it.
Just try mounting the gun. Now clench your teetch down tight and then relax your jaw. See how your eye moves? This may create enough cast for alot of folks, does the trick for me. It may not be enough for everyone but sounds like it would be enough for you. I've now taught myself to keep my jaw open when I mount the gun and what a difference I am crushing the targets! I used to clench my jaw to brace for recoil and it caused the shots to go too far left. As a result I would crush right to left targets but miss left to right.
I think its less that shotguns have POI problems and more that the stocks don't fit the shooter and/or the shooters form is bad.
Have you considered the gun fit? Sounds like you need a different drop shim to raise the comb up maybe 5mm. That will raise your point of impact.
I'm going to guess you are a right handed shooter and the gun doesn't have enough cast for you . This is causing your eye to be slightly too far left. Confirm you have the shim set for the right handed shooter. If that is not enough then try relaxing your jaw when you mount the gun. That should allow your eye to move to the right relative to the rib and move your pattern to the right like you want it.
Just try mounting the gun. Now clench your teetch down tight and then relax your jaw. See how your eye moves? This may create enough cast for alot of folks, does the trick for me. It may not be enough for everyone but sounds like it would be enough for you. I've now taught myself to keep my jaw open when I mount the gun and what a difference I am crushing the targets! I used to clench my jaw to brace for recoil and it caused the shots to go too far left. As a result I would crush right to left targets but miss left to right.
I think its less that shotguns have POI problems and more that the stocks don't fit the shooter and/or the shooters form is bad.
GC
Well-known member
Quote:I think its less that shotguns have POI problems and more that the stocks don't fit the shooter and/or the shooters form is bad.
Which results in what... point of impact issues. Regardless of where the problem originates if the shotgun doesn't shoot where you aim it, it is a point of impact problem for you to deal with. But the advise about using the stock shims is a good one and can help with minor issues if the poster hasn't already done so and still has troubles. I guess I assumed the poster had already tried the easy stuff and still was left with a problem regarding point of aim/impact. Good reminder.
Which results in what... point of impact issues. Regardless of where the problem originates if the shotgun doesn't shoot where you aim it, it is a point of impact problem for you to deal with. But the advise about using the stock shims is a good one and can help with minor issues if the poster hasn't already done so and still has troubles. I guess I assumed the poster had already tried the easy stuff and still was left with a problem regarding point of aim/impact. Good reminder.
JCnAR
New member
Any of you guys gotten trigger jobs on your shotguns? I did some pattern testing with some new Turkey loads and I found myself pulling off a couple times due to the trigger pull. I think I'm going to send my trigger pack to the guy who did my BAR trigger and let him work his magic.