Democrats (Teachers) Behaving Badly

Originally Posted By: ExpertMarksman :(So, does than leave Republican, Independent, and Athiest? Just asking! What?
thumbup.gif


Good Hunting!
thumbup.gif

Is athiest a politicial party now?
 
Quote:I don't label myself. I vote according to the issues, not the party.

In the last 20 years, what percentage of your votes have gone to each party?

So where would you place your political views on social issues, left, center, or right?
 
Originally Posted By: jeffoOriginally Posted By: jinxed247I posted a fact showing Wisconsin in #2 in SAT scores. That's a fact. Right there. A fact. Why is that fact ignored? Leads me to believe you and others are not so much interested in facts as you are in whining about your crappy place in life. You are what you choose to be. If you choose to be stupid, that's you choice also. And making blanket statements about liberals shows a decided lack of perspective and a gross ignorance. By the way, I'm not a Democrat nor a liberal. I think for myself. Try it.

And I am the touchy one?
lol.gif
Would you consider yourself a socialist?


I don't label myself. I vote according to the issues, not the party. I see all sides before deciding. I don't make judgement based on what is popular at the time. I'm not patient with stupid people who don't have to be. I'm not a sheeple. I do my job, very well, and expect the same from others. I see a marked decline in work ethic, belief in God and family, and civility. I don't believe in backing down when you know you're right. Hasn't gotten me a lot of friends, but I don't need others to make me feel better about myself. I'm right with God and my family. My conscience is clear and I don't take crap that I don't deserve. Let the assault continue. [/quote]

I just want to know how do you think that you are right when all of the facts point otherwise? Civility...my want to take another course on that...I know that I need to. I also vote according to the issues but when one party is constantly on the other side of the issues well, let's just say that the dems haven't recieved any votes from me in quite awhile. You don't need to label yourself, your words and who you choose to quote from gives everyone a fairly good idea on where you are coming from. I have no doubt that your conscience is clear, most true believers (of anything) can't see past the bubble that they have built around themselves...the world is round by the way.
 
This thread is thirteen pages long and while I've seen a lot of statistical charts and read quite a few opinions, some based on numerical quantifiers, I have yet to see any 'real world' results posted...

I have a 14 year old grandson (8th grade) that is of average intelligence with 'normal' 14 year old attitudes....For the last year, about twice a week, I've started picking him up from school, bringing him to my house to work on his 'homework', especially when he has a specific test coming up...

I've found that he doesn't know his multiplication tables, he writes so even he can't read what he has written two hours later, and his spelling is atrocious (all phonetic)....The really sorry part of this is that his teachers accept this and give him a "passing grade" for effort...
cursing.gif
.... One of my acquaintances is on the local school board (just elected) and asked me what would be needed to get the voters to pass a new increase in our tax structure..... Want to guess what my answer was???

This kid it going to be in a more competitive academic environment for the next four years (high school) and will not be able to function at a higher level when the time comes for him to compete in the real world....But getting that fact into the heads of school officials is like pounding nails into concrete...They are too afraid of repercussions if they demand excellence...Is he getting better??, only because I insist on seeing improvement from him...

Yet, they have the nerve to expect voters to roll over and provide more money for their incompetence...I used to have a lot of respect for our teachers, as we were required to produce to higher standards than we would set for ourselves...but now, I'm less than thrilled with the attitudes I've encountered...
 
Sadly, Social promotions have put the hurt on many kids. The neighbors kid couldn't read a clock unless it was a digital. Analog was too hard and basic reading and comprehension was about 3rd grade I'd guess.

He finally dropped out. Then went back and received his "Got Educated Diploma" GED. Said all he had to do was attend every night and they gave it to him.

Too sad, these kids are our future.
 
Originally Posted By: NM LeonQuote:I don't label myself. I vote according to the issues, not the party.

In the last 20 years, what percentage of your votes have gone to each party?

So where would you place your political views on social issues, left, center, or right?




I vote for a candidate, not a party, though I love a good party. In the last 20 years I have voted Dem., Rep., and otherwise. My political views are that regardless of party affiliation, government is too big, greedy, and intrusive.
 
Originally Posted By: CoyotejunkiSadly, Social promotions have put the hurt on many kids. The neighbors kid couldn't read a clock unless it was a digital. Analog was too hard and basic reading and comprehension was about 3rd grade I'd guess.

He finally dropped out. Then went back and received his "Got Educated Diploma" GED. Said all he had to do was attend every night and they gave it to him.

Too sad, these kids are our future.


It is sad. And social promotion is stupid. Why does it happen? Mostly because school administrators and school boards are afraid of lawsuits from greedy, ignorant parents who all think their little johnny is the next rocket scientist. And they'll raise holy [beeep] and sue if little johnny doesn't get all A's. Try maintaining high standards for students. I have for 24 years and will continue. It means a constant battle with parents who are even dumber than their kids, (yes, nmleon, I know it's the fault of public education). Unfortunately, some teachers feel so much pressure they just do what the boss says, and give up hope. It's sad. Teachers don't go into teaching for a free ride. Unfortunately, we are easy targets for people who really are unhappy with themselves but don't want to take responsibility for themselves or their kids. Blame the other guy - it's the American way, right?
 
Originally Posted By: NM LeonQuote:I posted a fact showing Wisconsin in #2 in SAT scores.

Yep, and I apologize profusely, I misremembered the position as fourth.

In any case, nobody has disputed the fact that the in year the rankings were for, and among the subset of 12th graders who actually took the SAT, those from WI scored very well.

So jeffo, do you dispute the fact that WI HIGH SCHOOLS over all ranked 44th (and abysmally in international comparisons)?

Do you dispute the fact that 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient” in reading, and have not improved at all since 1998?

Do you dispute the fact that during that same period WI had an increase in spending from $6546 (inflation adjusted) to $10,791 per pupil?

Do you dispute the fact that government education nationally has more than doubled in cost-per-student (in real terms) since 1971 (the teachers union age)?

Do you dispute the fact that there your union helps to elect politicians (from the school board on up) with taxpayer dollars?




How can Wisconsin kids be so dumb for so long but suddenly outdo almost everyone else on the day of the SAT test? Oh yeah, they cheat!
 
Originally Posted By: NM LeonQuote:I posted a fact showing Wisconsin in #2 in SAT scores.

Yep, and I apologize profusely, I misremembered the position as fourth.

In any case, nobody has disputed the fact that the in year the rankings were for, and among the subset of 12th graders who actually took the SAT, those from WI scored very well.

So jeffo, do you dispute the fact that WI HIGH SCHOOLS over all ranked 44th (and abysmally in international comparisons)?

Do you dispute the fact that 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient” in reading, and have not improved at all since 1998? Do you dispute the fact that during that same period WI had an increase in spending from $6546 (inflation adjusted) to $10,791 per pupil?

Do you dispute the fact that government education nationally has more than doubled in cost-per-student (in real terms) since 1971 (the teachers union age)?

Do you dispute the fact that there your union helps to elect politicians (from the school board on up) with taxpayer dollars?




How does this compare to other states?
 
Originally Posted By: NM LeonQuote:I posted a fact showing Wisconsin in #2 in SAT scores.

Yep, and I apologize profusely, I misremembered the position as fourth.

In any case, nobody has disputed the fact that the in year the rankings were for, and among the subset of 12th graders who actually took the SAT, those from WI scored very well.

So jeffo, do you dispute the fact that WI HIGH SCHOOLS over all ranked 44th (and abysmally in international comparisons)?

Do you dispute the fact that 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient” in reading, and have not improved at all since 1998?

Do you dispute the fact that during that same period WI had an increase in spending from $6546 (inflation adjusted) to $10,791 per pupil?

Do you dispute the fact that government education nationally has more than doubled in cost-per-student (in real terms) since 1971 (the teachers union age)?

Do you dispute the fact that there your union helps to elect politicians (from the school board on up) with taxpayer dollars?





They're my dollars. From my paycheck. Do you want to start dictating how a person should spend his own money now?
 
Quote:...social promotion is stupid. Why does it happen? Mostly because school administrators and school boards are afraid of lawsuits from greedy, ignorant parents who all think their little johnny is the next rocket scientist. And they'll raise holy [beeep] and sue if little johnny doesn't get all A's.

So your contention is that the admin and school board ORDERS YOU, the teachers, to give passing grades to your students even though the kids don't earn them? Seriously jeffo, you need to call Fox, CNN, NBC, ABC, etc. You are about to become an extremely wealthy whistle blower if you have any substantiation for those charges of what is probably criminally fraudulent behaviour.

Either that or you're just blowing smoke and, how did you put it? "Blame(ing) the other guy - it's the American way, right?"







Quote:How can Wisconsin kids be so dumb for so long but suddenly outdo almost everyone else on the day of the SAT test? Oh yeah, they cheat!

Let me try this once again. The ones who "suddenly outdo almost everyone else on the day of the SAT test" are ONLY the 12th graders who take the SATs. That subset does NOT include the the kids who have dropped out or just not taken the test. The "dumb" kids (your words) DIDN'T TAKE THE TEST.





Quote:Do you dispute the fact that 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient” in reading

Quote:How does this compare to other states?

WI 4th graders are tied with WY, WA, and SD for 24th place, just above the national average.

WI 8th graders are in 30th place, right at the national average.

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/sta...ur=WI&st=MN

Of course ALL the states' public ed systems rank abysmally in international comparisons.





Quote:They're my dollars. From my paycheck. Do you want to start dictating how a person should spend his own money now?

Before they were your dollars, they were taxpayer dollars, taken by threat of force whether I was willing or not (I wasn't).

I very much DO want to dictate where my tax dollars are spent, that's the whole point.

Have you ever voted for someone your union didn't support? If so, how did you feel about YOUR MONEY being given to a candidate opposing the one you supported?

Probably about the same as we non-public union taxpayers feel about having our tax dollars go to a system we don't support, and having the unions spend our tax dollars to elect candidates we don't support? In a very real sense, the public employee unions are engaged in a (currently legal) taxpayer money laundering scheme to funnel money to the Dems and other libs.



So apparently we can take it that you DON'T dispute these facts?

That WI HIGH SCHOOLS over all ranked 44th (and abysmally in international comparisons),

That 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient” in reading, and have not improved at all since 1998?

That during that same period WI had an increase in spending from $6546 (inflation adjusted) to $10,791 per pupil?

That government education nationally has more than doubled in cost-per-student (in real terms) since 1971 (the teachers union age)?


Given that you don't (or can't) dispute those facts, how can you justify the union position?






Quote:My political views are that regardless of party affiliation, government is too big, greedy, and intrusive.


Jeffo, total state expenditures nationwide exceeded $2.2 trillion last year, of which wages and benefits amounted to $1.1 trillion. Consequently, budgeting decisions related to at least 50 percent of all state budgets are driven by the wage provisions of civil service contracts and funding obligations for state workers’ health care and pension plans.

http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/Tabl...p;LastYear=2008

WI does not publish detailed figures, but one would expect that they are worse than the national figures, WI being a mandatory union state.

Want to reduce the size and scope of government? Taking away the benefits that public employees have in excess of private industry is a start. That means curtailing the power of the public sector unions, as they are a prime driver of the costs.
 
Originally Posted By: NM LeonCollective bargaining in private industry means the union sits across the table and negotiates with corporate management. Both sides have a dog in the fight. The union because they are trying to get money (wages or benefits), and the corporation because they are trying to retain profits and stay competitive in the marketplace.

Collective bargaining in the public sphere means the unions have a dog in the fight (wages and benefits), but the negotiators from the other side (local, state, fed government) do NOT have a dog in the fight. They don't have to compete in the marketplace for the monies they are negotiating with, they just raise tax rates to meet revenue requirements.

To make the basic concept of public unions even more screwy, unions can and do make political donations to the very people they then sit across the table from and "negotiate" with, so that the only loser at the table is the taxpayer.

This particular taxpayer has had (more than) enough of the game.

You NAILED IT...

but I'm sure some folks (Public Employee Union Members) will somehow disagree.
 
Originally Posted By: Smackem223How many of these union employees if they were to try and start a business of their own to become rich would want a union in control of his or her employees. My guess is not many.

OUCH !!!!

Do you mean actually putting THEIR OWN MONEY (and in many cases a 2nd mortgage on their home) and countless hours of SWEAT EQUITY on the line - with no government body sitting in the shadows to bail them out?
 
Back
Top