Vaportrail
New member
I know this may or may not be what anyone wants hear,...BUT!
Will the country implode when gas prices reach $5.00 a gal?
And what is your bug out plan when the everything colapses?
Vaportrail
GAS PRICES AND BUG OUT PLAN?
- Thread starter Vaportrail
- Start date
I know this may or may not be what anyone wants hear,...BUT!
Will the country implode when gas prices reach $5.00 a gal?
And what is your bug out plan when the everything colapses?
Vaportrail
Originally Posted By: Vaportrail
I know this may or may not be what anyone wants hear,...BUT!
Will the country implode when gas prices reach $5.00 a gal?
And what is your bug out plan when the everything colapses?
Vaportrail
Wife and I have been thinking about that for a while. First, we have 120 acres, mostly field, but about 35 hunting woods. Deer, rabbits, grouse, etc. We grow lots of vegetables and freeze or can them. We have a good stock of non-perishable food and water. Also have bought several more guns and lots of ammo. Stocking up on kerosene for the lanterns. Put in a wood heater and have been working on building up a few years' supply of firewood. We raise most of our own meat - sheep (lamb), goats, rabbits, chickens, turkeys, beef, pigs. We have layer hens for eggs and get milk from a goat (delicious) and also trade eggs for tank fresh cow milk from a farmer neighbor. Make our own hay. Put in a hand pump for water. Make our own laundry soap, bread, jerky, etc. Wife is learning to use her spinning wheel (we have lots of wool). There's more, but I think you get the idea. I think we are pretty well set for a while if we need to be. Biggest problem would be if electricity went out. We would still have food, water, heat, lights - but in the summer frozen stuff would thaw so we'd just can it. We've even planned on how to slaughter a horse (we have several) if it came to that.
I know this may or may not be what anyone wants hear,...BUT!
Will the country implode when gas prices reach $5.00 a gal?
And what is your bug out plan when the everything colapses?
Vaportrail
Wife and I have been thinking about that for a while. First, we have 120 acres, mostly field, but about 35 hunting woods. Deer, rabbits, grouse, etc. We grow lots of vegetables and freeze or can them. We have a good stock of non-perishable food and water. Also have bought several more guns and lots of ammo. Stocking up on kerosene for the lanterns. Put in a wood heater and have been working on building up a few years' supply of firewood. We raise most of our own meat - sheep (lamb), goats, rabbits, chickens, turkeys, beef, pigs. We have layer hens for eggs and get milk from a goat (delicious) and also trade eggs for tank fresh cow milk from a farmer neighbor. Make our own hay. Put in a hand pump for water. Make our own laundry soap, bread, jerky, etc. Wife is learning to use her spinning wheel (we have lots of wool). There's more, but I think you get the idea. I think we are pretty well set for a while if we need to be. Biggest problem would be if electricity went out. We would still have food, water, heat, lights - but in the summer frozen stuff would thaw so we'd just can it. We've even planned on how to slaughter a horse (we have several) if it came to that.
while $5 gas would hurt a lot, no I don't think that would cause an implosion.
Longbarrel
New member
3.45 here a gal. now and the sheeple just keep buying at the pump... There is no need of such high prices but thats the way it is... Maybe we need a good (BLEEP) kicking to get rid of un-needed rif-raf.... This country aint ever gonna get back on it's feet the way its going There is no future only repeats of the past... ( And to tell ya the truth im tired of the way things are going ) Tired of busting my (Bleep) only to spend my check at the gas station.....
maybe you don't need to buy gas. I do. I find it hard to make my vehicles go any where once they're empty & most stuff here is too far to walk.
Vaportrail
New member
Originally Posted By: Bama_MikeYou already know what I think!!!! Just move here already so we can double our forces and extend our resistance!!
Ya! I hear ya,.I guess I'll be looking for a horse or two! I'll put in a few caches along the way for retrograde operations.
Vaportrail
Ya! I hear ya,.I guess I'll be looking for a horse or two! I'll put in a few caches along the way for retrograde operations.
Vaportrail
OldTurtle
Moderator - Deceased
If you don't already own it, buying Gold and Silver, IMHO, would be a waste of your cash and just lining someone else's pockets...If you consider the cost/commission to buy and sell, vs, the actual growth potential an the inflation factor it potentially causes...The market value may have tripled over the last ten years, but how much of it are you willing to give up to buy food in the future...??
A news article that I read, indicated that from the time oil is brought up from the ground in the Middle East, shipped to this country, refined, and then available at the gas pump is approximately 30-45 days, but when any kind of 'shortage' is seen as potential, the gas prices shoot up immediately, even though that actual shortfall is still to be felt.... That's the fault of the gas companies...as well as the Wall Street speculators that are bidding up the prices of crude...
When that anticipated shortage doesn't happen to the degree forecast, the price of gas does not drop until the shipment is secured and in the refinery, ready for delivery...
$5 per gallon will certainly hurt the average citizen that is on a fixed income, especially those that are out of the work force due to age/health and have to deal with rising cost of everyday supplies and still take care of transportation for medical purposes...While we can all adjust our lifestyles to a degree, our daily needs can't generally be changed to a great amount...
A news article that I read, indicated that from the time oil is brought up from the ground in the Middle East, shipped to this country, refined, and then available at the gas pump is approximately 30-45 days, but when any kind of 'shortage' is seen as potential, the gas prices shoot up immediately, even though that actual shortfall is still to be felt.... That's the fault of the gas companies...as well as the Wall Street speculators that are bidding up the prices of crude...
When that anticipated shortage doesn't happen to the degree forecast, the price of gas does not drop until the shipment is secured and in the refinery, ready for delivery...
$5 per gallon will certainly hurt the average citizen that is on a fixed income, especially those that are out of the work force due to age/health and have to deal with rising cost of everyday supplies and still take care of transportation for medical purposes...While we can all adjust our lifestyles to a degree, our daily needs can't generally be changed to a great amount...
NM Leon
New member
Quote:A news article that I read, indicated that from the time oil is brought up from the ground in the Middle East, shipped to this country, refined, and then available at the gas pump is approximately 30-45 days, but when any kind of 'shortage' is seen as potential, the gas prices shoot up immediately, even though that actual shortfall is still to be felt.... That's the fault of the gas companies...as well as the Wall Street speculators that are bidding up the prices of crude...
When that anticipated shortage doesn't happen to the degree forecast, the price of gas does not drop until the shipment is secured and in the refinery, ready for delivery...
Not exactly OT. It's a popular misconception, but the prices really are driven by supply and demand as perceived by by those in the market.
First, there are two basic commodities markets that are constantly confused with each other, even by supposed financial "experts" (TV finance reporters etc) who may know something about the stock market but rarely have a good understanding of the commodities markets.
The real or "spot" market is for oil that has already been pumped. The daily "spot" price of oil is determined by supply and demand. If supply does not cover the demand, there will be more people bidding for the oil and the price will go up. There is very little "speculation" in this market, since it is for a real, material, product, and speculation would require (expensive) storage of the product, which would likely price the speculator out of the market.
Then there is the FUTURES market. This is a (mostly) theoretical market for oil that hasn't been pumped out of the ground yet, and might not be for a year. The "futures contract" price, contrary to common wisdom, has little to do with the (spot) price of real, already pumped oil, that's for sale today, in fact just the opposite. The real or "spot" price is the first and primary factor affecting the futures price. The calculation of what the buyer or seller thinks the price of oil will be in 6 months STARTS with what the spot price of oil is TODAY.
Very few futures contracts are ever "exercised" (have actual oil delivered). Almost all futures contracts are balanced or cancelled out before their "due date". In other words the contract owner will typically cancel out one contract to buy oil at a given price in a given month with another contract to sell oil at the same price in the same month. The "oil" in that case never existed, it was a theoretical or potential sale of oil sometime in the future, and the contractual obligation to buy or sell oil to or from someone was cancelled out by an opposite contract.
While the "speculators" get all the attention in the futures market, it's real purpose is to act as a buffer or "price insurance" for both suppliers and users. Without those "speculators" that "future price insurance" market wouldn't exist, the daily "spot" price for everything from timber to soybeans to oil, would fluctuate wildly, and markets would be chaos.
Where there IS price crossover between the two markets is mostly in the "close in" contracts, those contracts that are for oil that will be pumped in a month or two.
Let's say you have a refinery. You might have enough crude in storage to keep your operation running for a couple of weeks at most (bulk storage of oil is very expensive). You regularly bid on (spot market) oil that's in transit and that can be delivered in time to keep your supplies up.
When Egyptian pipelines are disrupted and oil to Europe is diminished, European refineries start bidding against you and the price of that oil goes up. Prices for your refined product (gasoline, heating oil, etc) go up very quickly because the price you are paying on the spot market have gone up.
Now you see Libya, Tunisia, etc on fire and you think "crap, if this spreads to Saudi the price of crude in the near future will skyrocket". Besides the futures contracts you might normally own as "insurance" (those 3-6-12 months away) and that you would normally wind up "balancing", now you as a refinery owner decide you had better prepare for the worst case and you buy oil futures contracts for delivery 1 and 2 months out.
Those "close in" contracts are going to be expensive since every other refinery owner is making the same calculations you are, and are also bidding for against you, but if oil today is selling today for $100 and your calculation is that if Saudi oil is disrupted in the next couple of months oil will go to $200, it makes sense to buy some oil for delivery 2 months from now at $150.
Here's the deal. If the Mideast calms down and prices fall next week on the "spot" market, you will still be contractually obligated to buy that more expensive "2 month out" oil, because it will be too close to (economically) "balance" it with an equal/opposite contract. In that instance, your oil supply for the next couple of months is going to be more expensive than if you were buying it all on the daily "spot" market, and since you have to cover your costs or go out of business, the price you charge for your refined products will remain high until your expensive buying obligations end.
You as a (nasty "Big Oil") refinery owner get slammed by the Dems and the media for price gouging because when oil prices went up, prices at the pump went up almost immediately, but when oil prices went back down, there was a lag of a month or more before prices came back down.
Reality is that there are very good reasons for the lag, and in fact "Big Oil" has been investigated literally dozens of times by extremely hostile congresses and administrations, and NOT ONCE have they been found guilty of price gouging.
That's a very simplified explanation of a very complex market, but might give you some idea of what really goes on.
If you want to place blame, put it on the folks who have made it necessary that we have to import 70% + of our oil from countries that are NOT our friends, and who have nationalized oil industries. That's not Big Oil, Wall Street, or "speculators", it's the greenie weanies, the earthers, and the liberal/progressive politicians they own.
When that anticipated shortage doesn't happen to the degree forecast, the price of gas does not drop until the shipment is secured and in the refinery, ready for delivery...
Not exactly OT. It's a popular misconception, but the prices really are driven by supply and demand as perceived by by those in the market.
First, there are two basic commodities markets that are constantly confused with each other, even by supposed financial "experts" (TV finance reporters etc) who may know something about the stock market but rarely have a good understanding of the commodities markets.
The real or "spot" market is for oil that has already been pumped. The daily "spot" price of oil is determined by supply and demand. If supply does not cover the demand, there will be more people bidding for the oil and the price will go up. There is very little "speculation" in this market, since it is for a real, material, product, and speculation would require (expensive) storage of the product, which would likely price the speculator out of the market.
Then there is the FUTURES market. This is a (mostly) theoretical market for oil that hasn't been pumped out of the ground yet, and might not be for a year. The "futures contract" price, contrary to common wisdom, has little to do with the (spot) price of real, already pumped oil, that's for sale today, in fact just the opposite. The real or "spot" price is the first and primary factor affecting the futures price. The calculation of what the buyer or seller thinks the price of oil will be in 6 months STARTS with what the spot price of oil is TODAY.
Very few futures contracts are ever "exercised" (have actual oil delivered). Almost all futures contracts are balanced or cancelled out before their "due date". In other words the contract owner will typically cancel out one contract to buy oil at a given price in a given month with another contract to sell oil at the same price in the same month. The "oil" in that case never existed, it was a theoretical or potential sale of oil sometime in the future, and the contractual obligation to buy or sell oil to or from someone was cancelled out by an opposite contract.
While the "speculators" get all the attention in the futures market, it's real purpose is to act as a buffer or "price insurance" for both suppliers and users. Without those "speculators" that "future price insurance" market wouldn't exist, the daily "spot" price for everything from timber to soybeans to oil, would fluctuate wildly, and markets would be chaos.
Where there IS price crossover between the two markets is mostly in the "close in" contracts, those contracts that are for oil that will be pumped in a month or two.
Let's say you have a refinery. You might have enough crude in storage to keep your operation running for a couple of weeks at most (bulk storage of oil is very expensive). You regularly bid on (spot market) oil that's in transit and that can be delivered in time to keep your supplies up.
When Egyptian pipelines are disrupted and oil to Europe is diminished, European refineries start bidding against you and the price of that oil goes up. Prices for your refined product (gasoline, heating oil, etc) go up very quickly because the price you are paying on the spot market have gone up.
Now you see Libya, Tunisia, etc on fire and you think "crap, if this spreads to Saudi the price of crude in the near future will skyrocket". Besides the futures contracts you might normally own as "insurance" (those 3-6-12 months away) and that you would normally wind up "balancing", now you as a refinery owner decide you had better prepare for the worst case and you buy oil futures contracts for delivery 1 and 2 months out.
Those "close in" contracts are going to be expensive since every other refinery owner is making the same calculations you are, and are also bidding for against you, but if oil today is selling today for $100 and your calculation is that if Saudi oil is disrupted in the next couple of months oil will go to $200, it makes sense to buy some oil for delivery 2 months from now at $150.
Here's the deal. If the Mideast calms down and prices fall next week on the "spot" market, you will still be contractually obligated to buy that more expensive "2 month out" oil, because it will be too close to (economically) "balance" it with an equal/opposite contract. In that instance, your oil supply for the next couple of months is going to be more expensive than if you were buying it all on the daily "spot" market, and since you have to cover your costs or go out of business, the price you charge for your refined products will remain high until your expensive buying obligations end.
You as a (nasty "Big Oil") refinery owner get slammed by the Dems and the media for price gouging because when oil prices went up, prices at the pump went up almost immediately, but when oil prices went back down, there was a lag of a month or more before prices came back down.
Reality is that there are very good reasons for the lag, and in fact "Big Oil" has been investigated literally dozens of times by extremely hostile congresses and administrations, and NOT ONCE have they been found guilty of price gouging.
That's a very simplified explanation of a very complex market, but might give you some idea of what really goes on.
If you want to place blame, put it on the folks who have made it necessary that we have to import 70% + of our oil from countries that are NOT our friends, and who have nationalized oil industries. That's not Big Oil, Wall Street, or "speculators", it's the greenie weanies, the earthers, and the liberal/progressive politicians they own.
Vaportrail
New member
Originally Posted By: NM LeonIf you want to place blame, put it on the folks who have made it necessary that we have to import 70% + of our oil from countries that are NOT our friends, and who have nationalized oil industries. That's not Big Oil, Wall Street, or "speculators", it's the greenie weanies, the earthers, and the liberal/progressive politicians they own.
We must do what we can to open up and or lift all drilling bans implaced by all these wackos! Build more refineries which hasn't happened in 25-30 years as I understand it. The USA from what I understand is the 3rd major producer of oil? yet our usage demands or requires a 70-80% import need. What's wrong with this picture folks?
Vaportrail
We must do what we can to open up and or lift all drilling bans implaced by all these wackos! Build more refineries which hasn't happened in 25-30 years as I understand it. The USA from what I understand is the 3rd major producer of oil? yet our usage demands or requires a 70-80% import need. What's wrong with this picture folks?
Vaportrail
jinxed247
New member
Does anyone have an idea on how to build a green house that can be used year round (even during our cold north country winters)?
Maybe the Moderators could make a new forum entitled WTSHTF and members can post what they have done to prepare their families for any sort of national emergency, disaster and such.
Maybe the Moderators could make a new forum entitled WTSHTF and members can post what they have done to prepare their families for any sort of national emergency, disaster and such.
remember katrina? gas over $4 per gallon?
the world was supposed to come to an end. it didn't.
like a kidney stone, this too shall pass. though it will prolly hurt in the process.
the world was supposed to come to an end. it didn't.
like a kidney stone, this too shall pass. though it will prolly hurt in the process.
No prob, start a thread. Let's see what happens.
Colorado Pete
New member
If gas is $4-5/gal., it'll be too expensive to 'bug out' (on wheels anyway). I'll just sit home and wait. Wal-Mart is within walking distance.