Democrats (Teachers) Behaving Badly

Originally Posted By: jeffoOriginally Posted By: jinxed247Wow...very well said stu and leon. You guys said everything and anything that I was going to post. I did want to suggest one thing though (even though it was probably already stated somewhere) what about doing away with public education and reverting to charter schools? They cost the tax payers half of what a public school does and they have almost double the graduation rate.


The graduation rate in my high school is around 95%. Charter school have double that? Someone must be graduating twice.


Also, the teacher gets paid by his/her merits and if they are not performing up to par then they get fired...explains why the high graduation rate.
My wife is a Registered Nurse and is forced to belong to a union in order to work in this state. She doesn't agree with unions because they often keep incompetant nurses in work...not just her opionion...for ex: a nurse was put on probation for giving the wrong meds to a patient...she was put on probation for a week and told she had to be error free for that week or she would be let go...the very first day that nurse (who has been a nurse for 12+yrs) made three med errors...when the hospital tried to fire her the union stepped in and somehow saved her job...now they have a diehard pro-union worker who is incompatant and shouldn't be a nurse...maybe it's the unions plan to get people to follow the unions by only keeping around the dumb ones who follow blindly and believe everything that the unions tell them.
What also pissed my wife about her union is that they donated money to Obama's presidental campaign and used her mandatory dues to do so

Union dues that go to campaigns are voluntary. Your wife needs to understand the rules better.


..when she complained to the union she was told that she didn't have a say in where or what her dues went for. So yeah, we don't like unions and I hope that when the general public sees how they actually operate and what it is actually costing them, this will be the end of unions in most states...you can't have your cake and eat it too.


Yes I can. And so could you. But with your mentality we'll be back to working 80 hours a week for minimum wage. Maybe you do so now. That's your problem. How do you expect working folks to support local businesses? They stand to lose just as much. I know it's a stretch, but try to understand this.

Her Union dues ARE NOT GIVEN voluntarily to campaigns. You obviously do not know me or my families view on politics. Her unions website even had a banner on it that said that they were proud supporters for the Obama campaign...in her 14 years as a nurse she has never used the union once to resolve a labor dispute so what good is her being forced to pay dues if she never uses the service? As for the graduation rates I am talking on average nation wide. It must be nice to teach at a school that goes from K-12 and you only have to deal with a grauating class of 28 people. Smaller schools tend to have higher graduation rates.
As far as me working for minimum wage..no, as an American soldier currently serving over here in Iraq I make far less than minimum for the hours that I put in. I chose to do it because I believe in this country, but after having conversations with people like you that belief gets shakier and shakier everyday.
Union members are like crack addicts...as soon as you deny them thier drugs they whine and complain and lash out at everyone. Don't worry though. I'll continue to stand the wall so that the big bad wolf doesn't come knocking on your door so that you can continue to rape the American tax payer of thier hard earned money.
 
As far as knowing what teaching entails, I do know. I work with a soldier that is a highschool teacher on the civilian side and his girlfriend is a teacher in Wisconsin, plus he comes from a family of teachers...do you know what they have in common? They all hate unions...and he spends more than ten hours a week grading papers, doing lesson plans and doing sub-plans. He's a chemistry teacher are you a gym teacher? Just wondering how you have all of this time to read and respond to peoples post if the two hours extra you hae to work everyday is gettting in the way.
 
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Originally Posted By: jeffoCommunity college, not doubt. Soft curriculum, good pay.


As a matter of fact it was Bismarck State College Jeffo, and yes it is an undergraduate school. And, the wages were sufficient, although I'd have probably had a difficult time living off that $1600 a semester.

I taught Search Engine Optimization in the Web Design program, a large part of which consists of manipulating the text contained on web pages so as to make it more Search Engine friendly for the terms you want a website to be found for. When asked what I found to be the biggest challenge in teaching this class in a department needs assessment, I explained that the single largest problem I confronted was trying to teach students to manipulate the English language, when they had no command of it. Many of the college freshmen and sophomores entering my class, designed text into their class projects that tested on a 4th and 5th grade level. These students are trying to enter a profession where they intend to put their clients' best professional face forward on the internet, and half of them couldn't spell, weren't smart enough to use spell check, and were essentially grammatically illiterate. Yet, they held a high school diploma.

So, yes... Leon's earlier comment regarding remedial reading being one of the most popular college classes, would most certainly be correct at the college where I taught, because my input along with that of many of the other instructors, was instrumental in making it a mandatory Freshman class for anyone not attaining a sufficient score on their entrance exams to move on to Advanced English Courses.
 


http://cnsnews.com/news/article/two-thirds-wisconsin-public-school-8th-g


Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can’t Read Proficiently—Despite Highest Per Pupil Spending in Midwest
Tuesday, February 22, 2011
By Terence P. Jeffrey





(CNSNews.com) - Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest.

In the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests administered by the U.S. Department of Education in 2009—the latest year available—only 32 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned a “proficient” rating while another 2 percent earned an “advanced” rating. The other 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient,” including 44 percent who earned a rating of “basic” and 22 percent who earned a rating of “below basic.”



The test also showed that the reading abilities of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders had not improved at all between 1998 and 2009 despite a significant inflation-adjusted increase in the amount of money Wisconsin public schools spent per pupil each year.

In 1998, according to the U.S. Department of Education, Wisconsin public school eighth graders scored an average of 266 out of 500 on the NAEP reading test. In 2009, Wisconsin public school eighth graders once again scored an average of 266 out of 500 on the NAEP reading test. Meanwhile, Wisconsin public schools increased their per pupil expenditures from $4,956 per pupil in 1998 to 10,791 per pupil in 2008. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator the $4,956 Wisconsin spent per pupil in 1998 dollars equaled $6,546 in 2008 dollars. That means that from 1998 to 2008, Wisconsin public schools increased their per pupil spending by $4,245 in real terms yet did not add a single point to the reading scores of their eighth graders and still could lift only one-third of their eighth graders to at least a “proficient” level in reading.

The $10,791 that Wisconsin spent per pupil in its public elementary and secondary schools in fiscal year 2008 was more than any other state in the Midwest.

Neighboring Illinois spent $10,353 per student in 2008, Minnesota spent $10,048 per student; Iowa spent $9,520 per student. Among Midwest states, Nebraska was second to Wisconsin in per pupil spending in its public schools, spending $10,565 per student.

Of these nearby states, only Minnesota did slightly better teaching reading to its public school students. In 2009, 39 percent of eighth graders in Minnesota public schools earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading, and the average eighth grade reading score in the state was 270 out of 500.

In Illinois, only 32 percent of eighth graders earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading, and the average eighth grade reading score was 265 out of 500. In Iowa, only 32 percent of eighth graders earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading, and the average reading score was 265 out of 500. In Nebraska, only 35 percent of eighth graders earned a rating of “proficient” or better in their public schools, and the average reading score was 267 out of 500.

Nationwide, only 30 percent of public school eighth graders earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading, and the average reading score on the NAEP test was 262 out of 500.

The National Assessment of Educational Progress explains its student rating system as follows: “Basic denotes partial mastery of prerequisite knowledge and skills that are fundamental for proficient work at each grade. Proficient represents solid academic performance. Students reaching this level have demonstrated competency over challenging subject matter. Advanced represents superior performance.”

In other words, despite the $10,791 that taxpayers were paying to educate students in Wisconsin public schools, two-thirds of eighth graders in those schools showed at best only a “partial mastery of prerequisite knowledge and skills that are fundamental for proficient work” at that grade level.

In fiscal 2008, the federal government provided $669.6 million in subsidies to the public schools in Wisconsin.



and jeffo, the $400 cell phone bill is your choice. if you dont want to pay it, get rid of the phone and quit whining. no-one is forced to have a phone
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If you're broke & want to balance your budget, there's going to be pain involved. It's going to hurt & people are going to get mad.
 
Ohh, I get it now! It's ok for us in the private sector to suffer. Apparently our jobs aren't difficult nor do they suck as bad as union workers. Why ELSE would they think they have a RIGHT to benefits with no end and never a cut in sight.

Maybe it would be better to just go ahead and let the firings commence. I'm not sure what part of UNSUSTAINABLE these folks don't understand. That's the crux of the issue! Is there any use trying to explain simplicity to folk(s) that only want to muddy the water so they can keep what they mistakenly think is theirs..

Maybe we should compare what most of us have had cut from pay and benefits in the last couple years so that we can gain a clearer understanding of what horrible offense to humanity these union workers are really facing!
 
Originally Posted By: pyledriverOhh, I get it now! It's ok for us in the private sector to suffer. Apparently our jobs aren't difficult nor do they suck as bad as union workers. Why ELSE would they think they have a RIGHT to benefits with no end and never a cut in sight.

Maybe it would be better to just go ahead and let the firings commence. I'm not sure what part of UNSUSTAINABLE these folks don't understand. That's the crux of the issue! Is there any use trying to explain simplicity to folk(s) that only want to muddy the water so they can keep what they mistakenly think is theirs..

Maybe we should compare what most of us have had cut from pay and benefits in the last couple years so that we can gain a clearer understanding of what horrible offense to humanity these union workers are really facing!


i worked a big 18 hours last week and so far only 4 1/2 this week
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no work, no pay. that simple. im think of applying with the county or state. no work, big pay and when ther is work, its holding down a desk or holding up a shovel.
 
You don't understand pyledriver. You should be grateful to the unions for all they have selflessly done for you. Without the unions you would be a slave, working 120 hrs a week for pennies a day. The evil capitalist corporations would be over-charging you for all their products (I'm not quite clear how they could sell anything to people making pennies a day, but...).

Where's your gratitude? You should be ashamed of yourself. You SHOULD be clamoring to give even MORE of the money the government lets you keep to the unions.

Obviously you are not smart enough to take care of yourself, and that's okay, the educated elite in the government and the union leadership will take care of you, but I mean REALLY, you could at least show some gratitude.
 
LABOR UNIONS AND THE ECONOMY
By
Neal Boortz
@ February 23, 2011 8:58 AM Permalink | Comments (12) | TrackBacks (0)

While unions continue to dominate the news, I figured I would give you a few little facts I found from the Heritage Foundation. Take these facts, absorb them and continue to ask yourself .... are unions making a positive impact on our economy? I'll bet you can already answer that question. But here are some specifics to fill in the blanks.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports...and-the-economy

* Unions function as labor cartels. A labor cartel restricts the number of workers in a company or industry to drive up the remaining workers' wages, just as the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) attempts to cut the supply of oil to raise its price. Companies pass on those higher wages to consumers through higher prices, and often they also earn lower profits. Economic research finds that unions benefit their members but hurt consumers generally, and especially workers who are denied job opportunities.

* Economists consistently find that unions decrease the number of jobs available in the economy. The vast majority of manufacturing jobs lost over the past three decades have been among union members--non-union manufacturing employment has risen. Research also shows that widespread unionization delays recovery from economic downturns.

* Some unions win higher wages for their members, though many do not. But with these higher wages, unions bring less investment, fewer jobs, higher prices, and smaller 401(k) plans for everyone else. On balance, labor cartels harm the economy, and enacting policies designed to force workers into unions will only prolong the recession.

* Studies typically find that unionized companies earn profits between 10 percent and 15 percent lower than those of comparable non-union firms. Unlike the findings with respect to wage effects, the research shows unambiguously that unions directly cause lower profits. Profits drop at companies whose unions win certification elections but remain at normal levels for non-union firms. One recent study found that shareholder returns fall by 10 percent over two years at companies where unions win certification.

* In essence, unions "tax" investments that corporations make, redistributing part of the return from these investments to their members. This makes undertaking a new investment less worthwhile. Companies respond to the union tax in the same way they respond to government taxes on investment--by investing less. By cutting profits, unions also reduce the money that firms have available for new investments, so they also indirectly reduce investment.

* Research shows that unions directly cause firms to reduce their investments. In fact, investment drops sharply after unions organize a company. One study found that unionizing reduces capital investment by 30 percent--the same effect as a 33 percentage point increase in the corporate tax rate.

* Economists have found that unions delay economic recoveries. States with more union members took considerably longer than those with fewer union members to recover from the 1982 and 1991 recessions.

Now imagine if our government - state and federal - were forced to run like a business, without its unique ability to levy and collect taxes ...... me thinks our country would have gone Tango Uniform ages ago.
 
You will never change the mind of an idealogue. Just repeating over and over that we don't understand is not an argument. I do understand what happens in schools, my mother taught for 35 years and I grew up in classrooms and teachers lounges. My mother worked very hard all those years just because she loved children and loved to teach them. I don't know why she put up with the junk she put up with from other teachers and the unions for all those years. She despised the union, but was forced to join and pay dues. In the end she was fired because she had a Bible in her desk (in a drawer) that she would read during her lunch hour when no children were present. The union she paid into all those years never lifted a finger to help her keep her job.

I also have an advanced degree and spent far too many years in that system. I can tell you for a fact that the best and brightest typically do not go into education. The university pushes students who are failing in the hard disciplines over to the college of education. Pretty scary.

We do not participate in the government indoctrination system, we homeschool. The homeschool movement is growing by leaps and bounds across the country in response to the poor performance from a unionized system and the politization of the classroom. We use a Christian curriculum and God is very much a part of the education. We also teach heavily in civics and government. Our child is quite capable of recognizing the difference between capitalism and socialism. My child will not go out into this world thinking that he is owed a comfortable living on the backs of others, I promise you that. He will also have a solid understanding of economics and his role in the economic system, something that is sorely lacking in broad segments of our society, especially, apparently the unionized sector. I have a minor in economics and management and business ownership experience, just so certain people know that I have the education and experience to make those comments.

Complaining about hours worked versus compensation is also a bogus argument. If you don't like the hours or the pay, quit and find something else. We own two businesses and work our butts off to keep them afloat. 40 hours a week, I wish, vacation, not happening, health insurance, impossible. But, if we continue to work hard and our customers continue to buy our product there is unlimited profit potential somewhere on the horizon. Yes, I said the dirty word for socialists - profits, the thing that makes our system work and what the socialists and their union flunkies steal from us.

We are no fans of unions, and have no sympathy whatsoever for unionized government workers. The union movement has its origins in communism, which is antithetical to everything that the U.S. and its Constitution stand for. Unions have destroyed much of American industry and driven our manufacturing overseas along with over regulation from local, state and federal governments. Government worker unions at all levels should be illegal.
 
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How dare you, nmcowpuncher. Raising your children to be well educated, productive, self reliant citizens is completely out of line!! This will never do, why, what if others were to decide that they too would keep their children out of our wonderful government indoctrination, er, ah EDUCATION system? How could we get more money to the unions, HOW COULD WE ELECT MORE DEMOCRATS???

It's OUTRAGEOUS, maybe we'll have to send our goons, I mean GUYS out to have a little talk with you. You are obviously a problem in need of drastic action.
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Don't think for a minute that the teacher union goons are not coming after folks like us, they are. They do consider us a problem.

My wife and I reviewed scholarhip applications for a rather substantial scholarship through a professional organization for six years. By far, the most impressive applicants were homeschoolers and this was what convinced us to take the leap. These applicants were bright, articulate, involved in their churches and communities, and had developed leadership qualities that are rare today.

Most homeschooled kids are pleasant to be around, they tend to be respectful and polite. Homeschool kids are not segregated into age peer groups and are able to interact with people of all ages. My kid can keep a baby entertained and have an intelligent conversation with an adult. I think some folks met him at the convention, you tell me.

All in all, I don't think we are missing anything by not having him indoctrinated by the government.
 
Originally Posted By: nmcowpuncherDon't think for a minute that the teacher union goons are not coming after folks like us, they are. They do consider us a problem.

My wife and I reviewed scholarhip applications for a rather substantial scholarship through a professional organization for six years. By far, the most impressive applicants were homeschoolers and this was what convinced us to take the leap. These applicants were bright, articulate, involved in their churches and communities, and had developed leadership qualities that are rare today.

Most homeschooled kids are pleasant to be around, they tend to be respectful and polite. Homeschool kids are not segregated into age peer groups and are able to interact with people of all ages. My kid can keep a baby entertained and have an intelligent conversation with an adult. I think some folks met him at the convention, you tell me.

All in all, I don't think we are missing anything by not having him indoctrinated by the government.

+1 we have homeschooled both of our kids, and both are so far ahead of most of the brainwashed public schooled kids it is unreal. put all you have into them and you will be very proud!
 
Unfortunately, not everyone has the resources to home-school. The real solution can only be a complete dismantling of the government monopoly "education" system.

Give vouchers or tax credits to the parents and let them decide which school they want to send their kids to (or home-school). States could easily cut their education expenditures (the largest budget item) by half.

Of course the unions oppose this vociferously, but if they win in the current debates in WI, OH, and IN, my hope is that a 100% voucher based system will be implemented in at least one of the states. Unless the economy starts zooming upward (unlikely) they won't have a lot of choice.

We can hopefully kill or cripple the public employee unions in the current conflict, but if the unions win, the governors will still have a (maybe better) fall-back position to save their respective economies.

Every cloud has a silver lining.
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