25 wssm ar ammo problem

204 AR

204 AR

Well-known member
For those that load these rounds for AR's, what powders do you use. I thought varget would be perfect, and it gives good accuracy, but doesn't run the rifle. Even max loads with 87 grainers short stroke the action.

I've had this happen with 4198 in a 223 ar, and concluded that was too fast a burning powder to run the rifle right. Is Varget too fast? 760 runs it well, but looks like it is trying to pull the rims off, which leads me to believe it's too slow. H4895 short strokes as well, although I haven't gotten to the max charge with it yet.

Any ideas?
 
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I have never had any luck using Varget in any of my wssm's! But H4350 and IMR4064 has always worked pretty good. Just messing with a New Oly Arms 25wssm Upper with the 115gr Nosler BT.

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Thanks for the info, I'm glad varget doesn't work for someone else! It gives me hope! I'm borrowing some 4350 from a buddy to try, sounds like that might be the ticket.

Nice group, I have some 115 nbt's, I might have to try those. What is the lightest bullet you've used 4350 with?

Thanks,
Russ
 
Russ
I have tried Varget in 3 Different WSSM's (1) 243 (2) 25 and i could never get it to shoot worth a Crap in any of them with Bullets from 85gr to 115gr. the 85gr is the lightest that i have tried in the 25 with the H4350 and IMR 4064 and they shot pretty well also, I use WLR Mag primers also. I will be trying some 115gr Berger VLD's and 100gr Nosler BT in this upper also. just wating for some Good weather. Like KAG said I also think that H414 would work also..
 
Out of the 200+ rounds I've run through my Dtech 22" most of them have been with Varget. I've never had a cycling issue, not once. Accuracy on the other hand has been less than ideal for me. The first shot is always dead on with max charge of varget and a 75 grain vmax. However, it only likes to shoot under 1" after I've "warmed" the barrel. I'm still looking for that magic 75 vmax and powder load. I've had good luck with RL15 and the 75's but have only shot about 15 rounds through. I have a bunch loaded up right now at max charges to test (yes, I've worked my way there). Varget and IMR4350 seems to spit the 100 grain bullets (Nosler partitions and TSX's) around 2" at 100 yards. I've been reading about the 87 grain Sierras and may give them a whirl.

I loaded 5 rounds with 45.0 grains of IMR 4350 and 75 grain Vmax bullets and they shot under 3/4". I need to go back out and replicate and also take Chrono data. I want those 75's running near 3500 fps or it kind of defeats my purpose of having a .25 wssm.

Are you sure you are sizing your brass correctly to your chamber? I've read the wssm's are picky about where the brass shoulder ends up. I bought a RCBS precision mic to eliminate this worry and it's turned out to be a great tool.

I've got some 115 nosler partitions on hand so I can try those too. We should sticky a "loading for the wssm AR" thread!
 
Thanks for the ideas guys. Yip 414 would work cause it's the same as the ww760, and it works well. I actually got varget to work tonight with 87's, I was .4 over max. Shot lousy, but those 87 hdy's never shot well in any other rifle over the past 20 years, that's why their still on my bench and not shot up!

I borrowed some IMR 4350 tonight to try, gonna try a buddy's load of 46.5 gr with a 100 nbt. I will also try it with the 87's and 75's.

I mainly want to get something reliable, and then I'll order some 87 sierra's, and 100 sierra's if the nbt's don't shoot. Mike say's those sierra's tend to be reliably accurate.

The brass is all new at this point and chambers easily. I've tried resizing some of it and chambering it and it chambers well also.

I think I'm getting this figured out, it's basically just a matter of the powder selection. The rifle is also getting more broken in at this point, and will probably run smoother as it goes.

Anybody try any of the Ramshot powders? How about 80 gr barnes ttsx?

Thanks, keep the load info coming, and yeah, why not a sticky?

Russ
 
I recently got a Dtech 25 wssm and it is definitely challenging (and a bit frustrating)to load for.

I haven't had a lot of opportunity to shoot lately due to the weather, but so far, here is what I have found:
1. My rifle (Shilen, 22" barrel) does not seem to like Nosler 85gr BTs no matter what powder I use.
2. Best results so far came with Varget and either Sierra 90gr GKs or Nosler 100gr Spitzers. I have gotten a few impressive groups with these combos, but still have a lot of work to do before I am confident with the consistency.

I have some 90gr Seirras loaded up with several different charges of RL17 to see how that works, but could be a while before I can get to the range again.
 
This is just me but my Dtech wssm likes R15, R17, and R19. The H414 I used to testing and it did group well but the Reloader powders for me shooting Speer 70gr TNT and 75gr Vmax's were really good. They have been good hunting loads with good point of impact over varying distances and temps. I do not use the my Wssm AR much anymore but I these worked for me.

This is in a 243wssm, but the Reloader powders have always shot well in my 25cal guns that allow for 40+ grains or more of capacity.
 
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Thanks for the tips, Guys. I think we have it mostly figured out why it has been so finicky.

Mike called me today and asked what trigger I'm using. When I said RRA nm 2 stage he said "ah ha!". Seems there has been a problem with some hammers in some lowers with some uppers. A tolerances issue when all the stars are aligned just wrong type of thing.

I measured things out when I got home from work and the top of the hammer was dragging hard on the bolt carrier, and that was enough to slow it down with certain loads and cause it to malfunction. A little work with a Dremel and it would seem that we're gtg.

Wow, definately learned a new one today!
Russ
 
Wow, that is one I've never heard of, however I'm new to this whole AR thing.

My DTech 25 WSSM likes either of the 4350's. My problem is; it groups decent for two or three shots and then opens up a bit. It acts like a barrel heat issue, as the groups are all about the same. The first two or three are touching or very close to it, and then the next one will be a quarter to three quarters of an inch off. If I wait five minutes or so between shots, they group fine. I've even had other guys shoot it to eliminate myself from the equation, with the same result.

I'm still experimenting with bullets and loads. So far mine like 100 gr SMK's the best out of what I've tried.
 
Originally Posted By: 204 ARThanks for the tips, Guys. I think we have it mostly figured out why it has been so finicky.

Mike called me today and asked what trigger I'm using. When I said RRA nm 2 stage he said "ah ha!". Seems there has been a problem with some hammers in some lowers with some uppers. A tolerances issue when all the stars are aligned just wrong type of thing.

I measured things out when I got home from work and the top of the hammer was dragging hard on the bolt carrier, and that was enough to slow it down with certain loads and cause it to malfunction. A little work with a Dremel and it would seem that we're gtg.

Wow, definately learned a new one today!
Russ

I have an RRA lower with the NM 2 stage as well. Is this a problem with all RRAs in this configuration? I haven't noticed a problem, but maybe it's dragging a little and I just wasn't aware of it.
 
Mike says he's seen it 5 times this month, that's why he thought of it. I have 3 other nm triggers, and measured them all after I learned of this, and one is really close to causing trouble. I would say if its running fine you probably have no problem. As Mike explained it, it could be a problem with certain uppers and not others, as they all have slightly different tolerances.
 
BTW I did get to function test it this morning with the same loads that were trouble before, and everything ran perfectly. So that hammer drag was my problem. What a relief to have that figured out.
 
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