NYS DEC OFFICERS on fringe of hunter harassment.

C

CHAS06

New member
After a run-in with the D.E.C this weekend while deer hunting in western New York, i have learned the following about DEC officers:
1) DEC officers ARE NOT your friends. They will pretend to be your friends & try to stick you with a BIG smile on their face.
2) When being questioned by DEC officers, act like you are a wanted man in South Central L.A being questioned by, racist police officers. Dont tell them a thing! Make sure your gun is unloaded, show them your license and think before you say ANYTHING. PLAY STUPID!!! If they ask if you have gotten anything, the correct answer is " I have that information filled out in the space on my license where its supposed to be." The best answer to any of their questions is "I DONT KNOW"
3) DEC officers ARE NOT your friends!!
4) In a desperate attempt to raise money for NY State, similar to NY State Troopers, they will make stuff up, LIE, make stuff [beeep] up, LIE some more and try to get you to hang yourself while they question you.
5) If threatened by a DEC officer, request to speak to your attorney. DO NOT ADMIT TO ANYTHING!!
The morale of this story boys and girls, is DO NOT TRUST these OFFICERS!! When they get out of their vehicle, they are looking for the smallest violation so they can justify their job.. Don't give them that chance . Just be prepared & know the rules.
** just a quick note to let you all know, no tickets were written during this weekends inspection. UPDATE in another county in Western NY a DEC officer stopped along side the road to check other hunters, an oncoming vehicle plowed into them, striking 5 hunters and putting them in the hospital plus the
DEC OFFicer. In New York State it is an illegal traffic stop for a police officer to stop a vehicle as a ROUTINE check. Why is it legal for the DEC to see someone hunting and check their license. Wonder Why Hunting License sales have dropped 25 percent in New York.
 
Originally Posted By: CHAS06 Wonder Why Hunting License sales have dropped 25 percent in New York.


To: ALL MEDIA
For immediate release

February 1, 2010
For more information contact:

Bill Brassard
203-426-1320


Hunting License Sales Up By
3.5 Percent in NSSF Index of States


NEWTOWN, Conn. -- In a year when one word, "fewer," described life in America -- fewer jobs, fewer home sales, fewer purchases -- hunters were responsible for generating a welcome "more" category, as hunting license sales rose by 3.5 percent in 2009 in states that make up NSSF's Hunting License Sales Index.

The 12-state index comprises several states from four main regions of the United States. Nine of those states recorded hunting license sales increases from January through December of 2009 over the previous year, according to Southwick Associates, a research firm that monitored the license sales information.

"Many factors such as weather and the economy affect hunting license sales in any given year, but in 2009 the economy likely had a more significant effect," said Jim Curcuruto, NSSF's director of industry research and analysis. "While the reasons for the 3.5 percent increase are speculative, past research shows that during slowdowns in the nation's economy it is possible that people have more time to hunt and that hunters take the opportunity to fill their freezers with nutritious, high-protein meat acquired at lower cost than if a similar amount was purchased at the supermarket."

States participating in the NSSF License Sales Index are New York and New Jersey in the Northeast; Florida, North Carolina, Louisiana and Tennessee in the Southeast; Minnesota, Indiana, Kansas and Texas in the Midwest; and Oregon and Utah in the West. States were selected for their ability to provide license sales data on a regular basis. The geographical selections were made to offset potential variation in license sales by region. As more states are able to provide necessary data, the number of states will be increased, said Curcuruto.

According to the index, license sales got off to a good start in the first half of 2009. In the key turkey hunting month of April, license sales rose by approximately 17 percent over the same month the previous year. In June, which is the start of the fiscal year in many states and, hence, the month when many annual licenses go on sale, sales increased by 16.2 percent. In the latter half of the year, which is when the bulk of hunting activity occurs and most licenses are sold, August and October sales were down, but September, November and December sales were up.




Complete article here:

http://www.nssf.org/newsroom/releases/show.cfm?PR=020110-hunting.cfm&path=2010



Somebody needs to contact this National Shooting Sports Foundation and tell them to get their figures straight.
thumbup1.gif


 
Last edited:
I agree. I've had a few contacts with game and fish officers while in the field and while I know they are just doing their job I just wish they would be a little more tactful when kids are around. Most of them do make you feel that you are guilty until proven innocent.

Do everything you can to follow all the rules and regs, be polite and honest but never volunteer information and make sure to remember that law enforcement officers are not your enemies, but they sure the heck are not your friends!
 
Originally Posted By: MTurbo follow all the rules and regs, be polite and honest but never volunteer information and make sure to remember that law enforcement officers are not your enemies, but they sure the heck are not your friends!


+1
thumbup1.gif
 
NO ONE GOT A CHAPPED BUTT, NO SUMMONS ISSUED just uncalled for harassment.

a Quote from the Buffalo Newspaper todays article. "fewer hunters return to the sport each year. The US Fish and Wildlife service estimates 33 states saw declines in hunting licenses sales over the past two decades. The sharpest was 50 percent in Mass. Michigan a 31 percent drop.
 
Originally Posted By: CHAS06 Wonder Why Hunting License sales have dropped 25 percent in New York.

Sorry, my mistake. I thought you said license sales had dropped 25 percent in New York.

So, what was the harassment all about?
 
I have ran into quite a few DEC guys here.

Most were nice but to the point and I had no probs with them

Just like anything else you are going to have peckerheads in the bunch.

Just a fact of life ya cant avoid. The same is true for LEO's( no offensement meant to our officers here) just being truthful is all, so dont pile on me you guys.

As much as it sucks it's better to just keep yer cool and get thru it.

It's hard to eat [beeep] sometimes, but, sometimes theres just no other way.

Sorry bout yer bad time. Hope all goes better in future trips to the field

 
Quote:Just a fact of life ya cant avoid. The same is true for LEO's( no offensement meant to our officers here) just being truthful is all
Black Wolf, I couldn't agree with you more.. In my almost thirty years as a LEO, I've found that my attitudes and actions were usually predicated on the attitudes and actions of the individual I was confronting at the time...

Experience taught me to read body language, whether in the eyes or over all posture, to determine what they were thinking, or going to do after our meeting...

While I never considered myself proficient enough to be 100% correct all the time, I could come pretty close...Just remember, I was paid to be a professional 'a$$hole' if needed...and a protective servant moat of the time, when justified...
grin.gif


In the long run, I probably let more offenders go than I ever charged...
 
I understand I had 28 years as LEO. I have done the same and trust my gut, there is a difference between developing information and slyme. There is much more to this story, that is untold, Since NYS Governor is laying off 150 DEC personal, it seems that sometimes the innocent pay the price for the discontent of the DEC . I also know there are priorities . some officers get off on a crap charge like, ie. excessive tinted windows, then drink and drive assuming they are above the law. I have seen these guys lie and bull crap their way to obtain information, because in NYS when you are summoned by the DEC. you can avoid trial by submitting to a monetary fine, which is called a civil compromise, which is always much less money than a lawyer and trial. I guess I just don't like the way they do business,
 
FYI a NYS ECO is a State Trooper in a green uniform and he carries a much LARGER book with him. They can write you for anything a trooper can and a whole lot more..Although they focus on conservation law most of the time. The fact that you are in the field gives them probable cause to check you. Yes some can be over zealous and if you feel that you have a valid complaint, take it to the proper authority ,don't argue in the field. Remember ,that during hunting season almost everyone they check will have a firearm at hand or very close by. Just last week I had a need to clarify a reg. reguarding barrel length for a hunting pistol. My question was is a muzzle brake part of the barrel as it contains no rifling and therefore does not contact the bullet. All they could do was recite the regs. they had no clue what a muzzle-brake was. So to cover my butt the total length will be under 16 inchs. My point is they can read a book but may be short on common sense.
 
I'll take a crack at this. I was a game warden in Florida although they didn't call us that. I left almost two years ago for several reasons that revolved around budget.
Like Blackwolf said above, every career field has good ones and bad ones-plumbers, pilots, priests, government reps, doctors etc etc. We in Florida, had the longest training program in the State, 29 weeks. We were full police officers first and then learned the skills exclusive to our jobs, riding atv's, patrolling in a boat, alligator capturing, etc.
The biggest misconception is/was these guys are your friend. You don't need a friend do you? They should be PROFESSIONAL and that is it. Just like the state trooper that pulls you over for speeding isn't expected to be your friend just not un-professional. While hunting/ fishing you are participating in a highly regulated activity with season dates, bag limits, method of take, length restrictions, possession limits etc and in Florida you were subject to an inspection. This differs from other Police Agency's routine mission as the public is used to being "pulled over" for an already apparent violation like speed, taillight, weaving, headlight, seatbelt whatever.
When I issued a citation I routinely encountered some version of "hope this helps the policemans ball" or quota type accusations or "must be end of the month". Nothing could be further from the truth. In Florida we received around .05 cents from a fine paid. You see, state representatives see how an agency that essentially pays itself with fines COULD become dirty by handing out more fines in times of budget crisis so they build in measures to prevent this.
To flyinlizard1's problem of not being able to find an "expert" from the agency enforcing the issue "muzzle brake", this is an all too common a problem due IMO to the selection process that many wildlife Agency's use to select candidates. In my Academy class there was 2 recruits that had never touched a gun until firearms training in the academy! They knew nothing about hunting, fishing, outdoor survival skills and were a real liability. One didn't make it through the academy and the other did. Also, in Florida us law enforcement officers were seldom consulted during rule change years. So, we were just as ignorant on some laws as were the hunters. From a current law enforcement Officers perspective: It is impossible to determine who wants to assault, shoot, kill, fight, whatever, us so all are treated the same. Hands will stay out of pockets or I will handcuff you, it is not to assert my dominance over anyone or play big man I just want to return home to my family at the end of my shift plain and simple. The same goes for many of my tactics while on a stop with someone. Sit down, stay off your phone, keep your hands in your lap, whatever. Think about where you encounter these guys. He or she is usually alone, at night, miles and miles from backup Officers, usually driving a vehicle that allows him to get to you but prohibits any would be responding officers to get to him in the event he requests backup and the stark realization that 99% of the calibers encountered will pass easily through his ballistic vest. So yeah, I know I require more "things" then a city police officer would but please remember the motive. When I worked in Florida it was in Dade County which was one of the roughest county's to be a police officer in. My last year down there I went to 4 police Officer funerals. I got to see the dead Officers kids and imagined how my own would cope with similar circumstances. I am willing to "offend" good people like all of you by asking you to put your weapon up against a tree, asking do you have any other weapons, please stay off your phone, please keep your hands where I can see them the whole time whatever I need to do to not cheat my kids out of their daddy.
This in no way is meant to excuse un-professional game wardens. But, don't mix up a citation with lack of professionalism. It is my opinion that more and more people cannot own their violations and deal with it. 99% of the time I attempt to determine knowing and willful when watching a violator and the subsequent interview. If I observe a fisherman catch a fish and then look around and place the fish in another cooler concealed in some bushes and then determine the fish is illegal you can bet he knew and was willful in the violation. Conversely, I have been flagged down and pridefully shown the monster fish recently caught that turned out to be a prohibited to possess species (triploid grass carp) and did not issue a citation because this person didn't know they were violating. Many of the questions I used on a very common basis were to determine your level of expertise or liklihood that you knew or should have known the law. An example line goes like this: How are you? This question helps me assess your likelihood of mental instability or attitude towards law enforcement based on your answer if you tell me the chickens are praying I will know you are probably mentally unstable likewise if you look at me with an attitude on your face I will ratchet up the awareness level. If this question goes in the direction it goes 95% of the time and you say "fine, how are you" then we move on to "have any luck today?" this determines my ability to inspect your catch. If you say "yep, called 3 and shot 1" or caught 3 keepers then I will move on to "may I see them" or move into a license check if appropriate. You from around here, how long you been hunting, you hunting alone today are all questions designed to prove elements in a case IF IT SHOULD NEED TO GO THERE and/or investigate the stop. Otherwise I am constantly assessing your propensity to try and hurt me and do my job too. Sorry for the long post but I took this thread personally and felt I could shed some light. Any further clarification needed just post or PM.
Sean
 
I understand Puffy, thanks for your input, I honor those that "serve and protect" I was a police officer for 28 years, I know good police work from bad, and I also know when a officer is just screwing with someone to get his name in the paper. Sorry to say but around here we have a couple DEC Officers who think they are the top of the food chain. When I was a law enforcement officer I could play by the book, and use different techniques for interrogation, Thats not what I am talking about, I have also seen LEOs do illegal things , to obtain evidence to get back at someone or just to be an ___hole. I cant go into the whole story, I guess I just had to vent.
 
If you think that the officer was out of line in any way, let his boss know about it. We had a federal game warden here that got a reputation as a real jerk and when every thing got said and done he isn't in SD any more. Nebraska you have my sympathies because he was transferred to your state.
 
cool.gif
Know exactly what you mean. I have had the experience of seeing a judicially designated 'peace officer' lift his right hand and after swearing to 'tell the truth', calmly commit Perjury. By his body language, anyone could tell he was lying, but he did indeed get away with it. Thankfully, he is no longer on the job in part due to his conduct in that particular hearing.

There is some belated satisfaction in living long enough to see the guilty reap the justice they deserved. One was actually a former supervisor and his fate included being shot dead by his wife in their living room, after which the wife killed their only daughter before she killed herself.

And-since he was not ON DUTY-his name was never added to the various police memorials. And a really strange thing about this is I was warned about this individual by a friend who is now a Police Chief after having completed the FBI Academy.

Good hunting!
cool.gif
 
Last edited:
Puffy said it best. When I go into the bank for a loan I don't find a friend, not looking for one. Just want a person to do their job professionally. I work as a police investigator and have been here for a lot of years. Chas, I also work in Western NY, I don't recognize you from you screen name, could you send me a PM letting me know where you worked in Law Enforcement for 28 years? Congrats to you for doing the job that long, after that time I'm sure we would have friends in common. As I read you first post I guess the thing that came to mind was you usually get back what you give to a police officer in the field. If you are abrasive and not forthcomming with information it would require a lot more investigation to see if you were one of the people breaking the law. Most people that aren't breaking the law have no reason to be that way and have pleasant experiences. Anyhow, sorry your day went bad but if yo were a police officer before I imagine it should have turned out differently as you should have understood the situation. I would be nterested in the whole story. I teach at a Police Academy in Western NY and would like to pass along the story to the recruits as a learning tool if the officer was out of line, maybe save someone else from being that person.
 
thumbup.gif
Funny thing you teach at a Police Academy as I was requested to teach at the Academy I graduated from #1 in all AWARDS! Nice experience, I did not accept the offer.
thumbup.gif


Don't like to break THE CODE OF SILENCE but using real examples without exact names and areas can be useful. My Cousin retired from 20 years on one force, married a cop 23 years younger, and she is a Professor in a Missouri College teaching Criminal Justice. OT might guess where that college is?
thumbup.gif


If you have a chance, read about the technique/way that author of THE ONION FIELDS gets his police contacts to loosen up enough to tell the truth about some of their cases! Joe Wambaugh knows how to interview and then be careful what he puts in writing!

Good hunting! I am on the way to hunt turkey today!
thumbup.gif
 
Last edited:
McDonald being a public servant ( Officer or any job) you do have the responsibility of "acting" professional and curtious to the general public. I have found many Eco's (and NYS Troopers)lack this skill. I have never received a ticket or anything of the sort, but I treat law enforcement how they treat me simple as that. I know that I'm acting within all of the laws and regulations I do not and will not take crap from any law enforcement.

As far as ECO's well, I have ran into several that have bothered me about something and found out they have no clue about the game laws. This is extremely embarrassing for them and the State of NY. An example of this is when I was a teenager I was duck hunting on a river with one of my good friends. The ECO ran my plates and ending calling my parents and my friends parents at 645am to find out what we were doing on the river shooting??? Wow if that is not harassment I'm not sure what is. This joker was a lazy and ignorant ECO. I now tell people to carry a regulation and rule guide in their vehicle cause I have found that it has saved me several times since troopers/cops/ etc have no freaking clue about laws...I very often at the end of my conversation will offer it to them so they can read and understand NYS rules...
w00t.gif


My advice to you since your teaching a police Academy is to make sure you teach them all the laws so future people/hunters wont get harassed especially about night hunting...
 
Quote:My advice to you since your teaching a police Academy is to make sure you teach them all the laws so future people/hunters wont get harassed especially about night hunting...

Teachers just love it when someone tells them how or what to teach there class.
smile.gif
Just having some fun here.

You did remind me of what happened to me several years back. Up in N. MO there was a MDC LEO (I'll call him Officer Tim). Officer Tim stopped and checked my license and looked at my coyotes and such. He was very professional in our meetings. We had a disagreement about a few regs and he pulled out the books and we both agreed I was right.
smile.gif
I was happy with that outcome. I hunted his area quite a lot, so we would run into each other quite often.

Turns out the MDC let him go, then he goes to work for the Sheriff's office. OK, this is rumor since no one up there will say for sure, but he was let go again. Supposedly his background caught up with him and he BS'ed his way in, being he had a felony record. I guess he was an embarrassment to them.
 
Back
Top