How many use scent eliminator??
- Thread starter Trapper Luke
- Start date
I can't believe how far this went.I was wondering why in all this,that noone mentioned a bears sense of smell.It is reported to be 7 times stronger than a bloodhound.Most experienced bear hunters do use scent eliminators,as reported on a bear hunting site.I also looked but could not find any evidence that a coyotes sense of smeel equals a bloodhound.I find it hard to believe based only on the fact that dogs are bred to increase certain attributes.A greyhound will out run a coyote.A pitbull will be a better fighter.A coyote doesn't point birds.This is because selective breeding has magnified these skills.So without the controlled breeding,I have to believe a coyotes sense of smell isn't as good.If anyono does know of a good scientific bit of research,I'd like to read it.
GC
Well-known member
Wouldn't you think that coyotes have evolved with eons of time to be at the top of their game too? [beeep] everyone in the country takes a pot shot at them. What other wild animal in this country has full time ADC men working to kill them basically year around? At one time in one ten year period Texas spent millions of dollars trying to eradicate coyotes completely, it was an all out no holds barred war. Everything and anything went, airplane and helicoptor gunning, trapping, snaring, poison, those little pop up blasters (M4’s?). Two men lost their lives in a chopper crash while coyote gunning during this time. At the end of the study period it was estimated the coyote population actually INCREASED! Coyotes have survived every effort to contain and/or kill their populations and have spread their range completely across the country to include all the major urban areas both west coast and east coast. Coyotes seem to have earned the title of "grand master champion" when it comes to surviving and they aren't just lucky - something else is working for them too. Selective breeding at its finest…
Well, let's break down what you just said. Would chasing them with helicopter and airplanes do anything to help them evolve their sense of smell?No.Would traps or snares?Maybe,but you said yourself in an aerlier post,apples and oranges when using cover scent.So again,no.Would poison only kill the ones with a poor sense of smell?No.The little pop up blasters,would they only kill the ones with poor sense of smell?No.There are too many variables to consider here.I personally think they are just a little smarter when it comes to things that threaten them.Some animals don't remember the things that can get them into trouble.A muskrat is a good example.They get away at one bait set,only to get caught in the next.They survive by having lots of offspring.Coyotes do the same,actually.I read somewhere that when there is an abundance of food,coyote litters tend to be bigger.This has nothing to do with it's sense of hearing.So maybe this is what happened in Texas.As the predator population decreased,the prey increased.The surviving coyotes would be smarter and have larger litters.The things learned about poison,traps etc. would be passed on to the pups.But nothing here tells me that their sense of smell got better.
GC
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: jbmaster Well, let's break down what you just said. Would chasing them with helicopter and airplanes do anything to help them evolve their sense of smell?No.Would traps or snares?Maybe,but you said yourself in an aerlier post,apples and oranges when using cover scent.So again,no.Would poison only kill the ones with a poor sense of smell?No.The little pop up blasters,would they only kill the ones with poor sense of smell?No.There are too many variables to consider here.I personally think they are just a little smarter when it comes to things that threaten them.Some animals don't remember the things that can get them into trouble.A muskrat is a good example.They get away at one bait set,only to get caught in the next.They survive by having lots of offspring.Coyotes do the same,actually.I read somewhere that when there is an abundance of food,coyote litters tend to be bigger.This has nothing to do with it's sense of hearing.So maybe this is what happened in Texas.As the predator population decreased,the prey increased.The surviving coyotes would be smarter and have larger litters.The things learned about poison,traps etc. would be passed on to the pups.But nothing here tells me that their sense of smell got better.
For some reason this came to mind lol...
For some reason this came to mind lol...
If I'm wrong,SHOW ME!!I asked for something scientific.I am not impressed in the least if 2 nitwits got killed chasing coyotes with a chopper.Sounds to me like they got what they deserved.There's your selective breeding.No nitwit sons to fly around shooting from a chopper!LOL.Show me something scientific as proof.Not all that hard to understand.Show me the study!
Originally Posted By: jbmaster If I'm wrong,SHOW ME!!I asked for something scientific.I am not impressed in the least if 2 nitwits got killed chasing coyotes with a chopper.Sounds to me like they got what they deserved.There's your selective breeding.No nitwit sons to fly around shooting from a chopper!LOL.Show me something scientific as proof.Not all that hard to understand.Show me the study!
You find humor in someone getting killed?
You find humor in someone getting killed?
GC
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: jbmaster If I'm wrong,SHOW ME!!I asked for something scientific.I am not impressed in the least if 2 nitwits got killed chasing coyotes with a chopper.Sounds to me like they got what they deserved.There's your selective breeding.No nitwit sons to fly around shooting from a chopper!LOL.Show me something scientific as proof.Not all that hard to understand.Show me the study!
I posted the cartoon in fun, kind of poking fun at the two of us bantering back and forth. But your post here takes all the fun out of it. Now, you are showing true ignorance in the literal sense of the word. The blade cuts both ways - show me proof scent eliminator spray WORKS for eliminating your scent when calling coyotes. You've had some really good hunters with REAL EXPERIENCE tell you it simply doesn't work for calling coyotes yet you ignore that honest real world experience. Please enlighten us with your personal experiences in which scent eliminator has worked for you with coyotes downwind. Coyotes downwind continued to respond directly to you because of your scent eliminator spray or clothing? I’m willing to listen to honest real world experiences.
As for scientific proof there have been a couple of large lawsuits in which the scent eliminator clothing companies LOST because their products did not perform as claimed. Those lawsuits had many scientific experts from both sides testify and the scent eliminator companies lost because their science failed to stand the test in court. That is fact - period.
Regarding the two men that died in the chopper crash that you refer to as "NITWITS" you should be ashamed. If you are ignorant of the fact that several states and the federal government have ADC men that at times use aircraft to more effectively attempt to manage coyote problems in their districts, you should once again do some research. These weren't guy’s joy riding and goofing; they were professional ADC men working for the State of Texas and died doing their job. They probably had families that loved them and depended upon them and I’d bet the lose of those husbands and perhaps fathers was a tragedy to those families. I'm stunned how callous and easily you disregarded the lives of these guys.
This has been hashed over dozens of times and this isn't ground breaking discussion here. Neither one of us is going to change the others opinion and in light of some of the dialogue that is certainly in poor taste it would probably be best to let sleeping dogs lie.
I posted the cartoon in fun, kind of poking fun at the two of us bantering back and forth. But your post here takes all the fun out of it. Now, you are showing true ignorance in the literal sense of the word. The blade cuts both ways - show me proof scent eliminator spray WORKS for eliminating your scent when calling coyotes. You've had some really good hunters with REAL EXPERIENCE tell you it simply doesn't work for calling coyotes yet you ignore that honest real world experience. Please enlighten us with your personal experiences in which scent eliminator has worked for you with coyotes downwind. Coyotes downwind continued to respond directly to you because of your scent eliminator spray or clothing? I’m willing to listen to honest real world experiences.
As for scientific proof there have been a couple of large lawsuits in which the scent eliminator clothing companies LOST because their products did not perform as claimed. Those lawsuits had many scientific experts from both sides testify and the scent eliminator companies lost because their science failed to stand the test in court. That is fact - period.
Regarding the two men that died in the chopper crash that you refer to as "NITWITS" you should be ashamed. If you are ignorant of the fact that several states and the federal government have ADC men that at times use aircraft to more effectively attempt to manage coyote problems in their districts, you should once again do some research. These weren't guy’s joy riding and goofing; they were professional ADC men working for the State of Texas and died doing their job. They probably had families that loved them and depended upon them and I’d bet the lose of those husbands and perhaps fathers was a tragedy to those families. I'm stunned how callous and easily you disregarded the lives of these guys.
This has been hashed over dozens of times and this isn't ground breaking discussion here. Neither one of us is going to change the others opinion and in light of some of the dialogue that is certainly in poor taste it would probably be best to let sleeping dogs lie.
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I use the same scent elimnation procedures as I do when hunting deer and use a cover scent. Also I believe it works for me. Coyotes apparently have a well developed sense of hearing.The sense of smell has to be as good as most hunting dogs. I know that when I use no cover scent the directly downwind coyote leaves. He does not care what he sees or it sounds like an easy meal he goes. The correct cover scent stops them. That when you have to take the shot. It seems like coyotes use their ears and eyes and then it has to smell right when coming. Why else do most circle downwind last few yards? Is the sense of smell dominate like a bears? It does not look that way. Never the less it is an important part of the coyotes survival system. The coyote seems to use all three senses and conditioned response system to beat you.
rockinbbar
New member
Once again, GC is spot on with this.
To put things simply, if you feel better wearing a scent eliminator, or cover scent, then by all means do so. I know I wouldn't waste my money on those products though.
Tflick is right about a coyote using all three senses coming in. They use them all to the max as well. If something doesn't look right, they will not come in. If something doesn't sound right, like a poor sound, or a meteal on metal sound, they won't come in...
But, given all the things are "right" for a coyote running into the stand, in most cases, if he smells you, it's like he ran into an invsible electric fence....He will be out of there at a run. If you use scent eleminator, he may well be a tad closer, (Or not) to you when he smells you and puts it in overdrive out of there. He WILL smell you though.
And if you use a cover scent, well, remember the McDonalds scenario....He smells bread, onions, meat and even the sesame seeds...and most certainly will smell YOU mixed with whatever cover scent that you choose to use. But he WILL smell you...
No doubt. You my confuse him with the other scent long enough for a shot, but maybe not.
If you don't think he will smell you, then you have not observed enough coyotes coming into your calling. Because if you have had many come in, you will see that they have that sniffer working at a dead run, and you can see it in their face & most certainly in what they do when they catch your scent. You better be a heckuva barker to stop them, or be good at running a rifle when they are flat out, wide open out of there.
All that needs to be done is have someone use whatever scent they wish, and start calling downwind for coyotes.
Be honest, and come back and give us all a report. If there's a product that can be documented to have the results that everyone expects about fooling downwind coyotes, I may want to invest in it, because it will surely be a top seller once it's PROVEN to be effective in fooling downwind coyotes.
In the meantime, it may be in the best interest of hunters reading this and wanting to kill coyotes to play the wind obsessively, and make your stand accordingly.
You can call with the wind in the wrong direction, but you'd better shoot him before he gets into your scent cone.
Barry
To put things simply, if you feel better wearing a scent eliminator, or cover scent, then by all means do so. I know I wouldn't waste my money on those products though.
Tflick is right about a coyote using all three senses coming in. They use them all to the max as well. If something doesn't look right, they will not come in. If something doesn't sound right, like a poor sound, or a meteal on metal sound, they won't come in...
But, given all the things are "right" for a coyote running into the stand, in most cases, if he smells you, it's like he ran into an invsible electric fence....He will be out of there at a run. If you use scent eleminator, he may well be a tad closer, (Or not) to you when he smells you and puts it in overdrive out of there. He WILL smell you though.
And if you use a cover scent, well, remember the McDonalds scenario....He smells bread, onions, meat and even the sesame seeds...and most certainly will smell YOU mixed with whatever cover scent that you choose to use. But he WILL smell you...
If you don't think he will smell you, then you have not observed enough coyotes coming into your calling. Because if you have had many come in, you will see that they have that sniffer working at a dead run, and you can see it in their face & most certainly in what they do when they catch your scent. You better be a heckuva barker to stop them, or be good at running a rifle when they are flat out, wide open out of there.
All that needs to be done is have someone use whatever scent they wish, and start calling downwind for coyotes.
Be honest, and come back and give us all a report. If there's a product that can be documented to have the results that everyone expects about fooling downwind coyotes, I may want to invest in it, because it will surely be a top seller once it's PROVEN to be effective in fooling downwind coyotes.
In the meantime, it may be in the best interest of hunters reading this and wanting to kill coyotes to play the wind obsessively, and make your stand accordingly.
You can call with the wind in the wrong direction, but you'd better shoot him before he gets into your scent cone.
Barry
Originally Posted By: GCOriginally Posted By: jbmaster GC, I've been a trapper all my life.A canines nose can be fooled,I've been fooling them for 35 years.Ask any trapper.
Apples and oranges as compared to calling coyotes.
Yep apples to oranges! When you are calling in a coyote you are dealing with that animal then and there....When you set traps you might luck up and catch one that night but usually its a couple days or more later when your scent dissipates....
Chad
Apples and oranges as compared to calling coyotes.
Yep apples to oranges! When you are calling in a coyote you are dealing with that animal then and there....When you set traps you might luck up and catch one that night but usually its a couple days or more later when your scent dissipates....
Chad