Public schoolers: How's that indoctrination workin' out?

Quote:If I posted some of the horrendous things people claimed from were true about Leon from and his overseas activities from Monster would that be over the line?

As I've never been to that site and have no interest in ever going there I wouldn't know what it is that your banned budsters claim, so I couldn't say if it would be over the line.

If I posted some of the disgusting, perverted things that people alledged were examples of your sexual proclivities, do you think that would be over the line?





Quote:I could copy and past scores of insults you dish out and you would probably sit there and give the rational why every insult was justified.


There is no "rationale" needed.

A Dana, Scott has never been one to allow facts to get in the way of his opinions or statement as you can see above.

He's a 6th grade teacher and so obviously he is the preeminant expert on all facets of education nationally (just ask him).


No rationale is needed because the statement can be backed up with proof in your own words (and there are LOTS more):


"In all honesty the manner in which you dismiss real life opinion that professional educators post here is absurd. You copy and paste from articles that coincide with your point of view and act surprised when teachers disagree with you."

"IN the end real life experiences TRUMP your studies and research. "

"That you discount the opinion and points made by SCORES of people at all levels of the teaching profession shows that you are not able to process important and pertinent information regarding the topic."

"I don't do the statistic game. I just resort to common sense."

"If my memory serves me correctly you were recently working overseas in a profession related to the military. I would never waltz into a discussion concerning that field or profession and expect anyone to take my comments for anything other than an opinion. I am not in the military and anything I might know would be 2nd hand knowledge. I am a teacher by profession. I am waist deep in the politics, the good, the bad, the ugly of public education. I am one of the few public school teachers that will point out the negative with the system I am part of."



There is no rationale needed because there is no insult to reiterating another's statements and positions.

Put another way, when a statement is demonstrably and provably true, it's not an insult.
 
Quote:I don't think any studies or facts I've seen here or elsewhere have addressed the obvious. Homeschool teachers get to select their students and usually have some family ties (aka authority). Of course they should do as well or better than public school children. In fact, they should be doing way better than they are.

You state the obvious jeffo. Homeschool teachers are almost always either the mother or the father. At 30-39 percentage points better than government school kids they couldn't do too much better though.

I'm curious though, if it seems obvious to you as a teacher that homeschooled kids should "of course" do better, where do you suppose these unsupported and unsupportable statements came from?



"Of course not every teacher agrees with the radical left-wing garbage pushed in schools. Most teachers enter the profession with a sincere love of children and a desire to shape their futures for the good. But their often mandatory involvement with teachers' unions and government mandates wipes away their innocent and naïve interest, leaving behind jaded, bitter and disillusioned people who once hoped to shape our children with great care.

Homeschool your kids, folks. It's the only way to save them."

"innocent and naive..." "Wow. Doesn't speak well for the colleges that gave them degrees. By all means, homeschool."


"I simply don't think most parents could do a good job of it, like they think they could. There's more to it than most folks realize."

"such as?"

"Such as the time you need to put in. Also, you need to know stuff. Most people could probably teach elementary-aged kids, but beyond that..."


"It makes me chuckle when parents pull their children out of public school in elementary. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that come about 7th-9th grade those same parents will sheepishly re-register their child back up when they realize they do not have the skill set to teach junior high curriculum- math, science, even social studies."


"Thank goodness the state is now holding these lazy parents accountable for the education their kids are receiving. Ideally they should assess the home-school child's knowledge once a year and if the child is not up to snuff, the parent loses their job as a pseudo-educator and the kid by law gets pulled back in public school again."


"Parents who home school their children are often ill-equipped to perform the task once their children are beyond 7th grade."


"Now we're back to each parent home schooling their own kids and the problem that beyond 7th grade very few have the background to effectively teach the curriculum. You can do 12th grade physics and calc?"


"...and home schooling beyond 6th grade is a recipe for disaster."


"If you don't have hopes of your son/daughter going to college them sure the limited education you give your son/daughter from 7th to 12th grade might be OK."



"An education is of great importance in life. I am saying some parents should not be in charge of their child's education. There are others that do a fantastic job guiding their child through their education.

I also spoke about many parents not having the skill set to teach beyond 6th grade. You opted to not comment on that."


"The home school parent can not even come close to providing the skill set to adequately teach their son/daughter beyond 6th grade ([beeep], I dont think they can adequately teach them at all personally). IF you plan on having your son/daughter attend college (which not all do I understand) then you better bite the bullet and reenroll them back into public school once they hit 11 years old."


"In my opinion this is a key fault of many home schooling parents. Because they are so animatedly against public schooling for whatever reason, they will attempt to teach their own son/daughter and give them a sub-par education because of it.

Because few parents can teach 7 subjects they subscribe to some online teaching program or school which does a half-[beeep] job. Many times the reason a parent pulls their child fro a pubic school is because they do not like the accountability a public school requires of a parent. Phone calls home when a student is absent, immunization requirements, and mandatory events for parents are just a few reasons to pull little Johnny from school.

Add to that the lack of structured non-academic programs such as music, PE, art, organized sports and the home schooled child is getting the short end of the stick.



If I'm not mistake each of those quotes was from a teacher? Odd that experts on national education would have gotten it so consistently wrong. Who'd have thought it?



Quote:Let's try an experiment. For 10 years 10,000 random families are made to homeschool. For the same 10 years, 10,000 random families have their children go to public school. For the sake of comparison, let's say everything else is equal - in each group there are the same number of poor and rich, same number of college-educated, same number of different ethnic groups, etc. What do you think the results would be?



I guess you missed this one:

Surprisingly, several studies have found that home education may help eliminate the potential negative effects of certain socio-economic factors. Though children whose parents have university degrees score higher on tests of academic achievement than other home schooled children, home education appears to mitigate the harmful effect of low parental education levels. That is, public schools seem to educate children of poorly educated parents worse than do the poorly educated parents themselves. One study found that students taught at home by mothers who had never finished high school scored a full 55 percentile points higher than public school students from families with comparable education levels.
 
Boring

boring-class.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: nmleonQuote:I don't think any studies or facts I've seen here or elsewhere have addressed the obvious. Homeschool teachers get to select their students and usually have some family ties (aka authority). Of course they should do as well or better than public school children. In fact, they should be doing way better than they are.

You state the obvious jeffo. Homeschool teachers are almost always either the mother or the father. At 30-39 percentage points better than government school kids they couldn't do too much better though.

I'm curious though, if it seems obvious to you as a teacher that homeschooled kids should "of course" do better, where do you suppose these unsupported and unsupportable statements came from?



"Of course not every teacher agrees with the radical left-wing garbage pushed in schools. Most teachers enter the profession with a sincere love of children and a desire to shape their futures for the good. But their often mandatory involvement with teachers' unions and government mandates wipes away their innocent and naïve interest, leaving behind jaded, bitter and disillusioned people who once hoped to shape our children with great care.

Homeschool your kids, folks. It's the only way to save them."

"innocent and naive..." "Wow. Doesn't speak well for the colleges that gave them degrees. By all means, homeschool."


"I simply don't think most parents could do a good job of it, like they think they could. There's more to it than most folks realize."

"such as?"

"Such as the time you need to put in. Also, you need to know stuff. Most people could probably teach elementary-aged kids, but beyond that..."


"It makes me chuckle when parents pull their children out of public school in elementary. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that come about 7th-9th grade those same parents will sheepishly re-register their child back up when they realize they do not have the skill set to teach junior high curriculum- math, science, even social studies."


"Thank goodness the state is now holding these lazy parents accountable for the education their kids are receiving. Ideally they should assess the home-school child's knowledge once a year and if the child is not up to snuff, the parent loses their job as a pseudo-educator and the kid by law gets pulled back in public school again."


"Parents who home school their children are often ill-equipped to perform the task once their children are beyond 7th grade."


"Now we're back to each parent home schooling their own kids and the problem that beyond 7th grade very few have the background to effectively teach the curriculum. You can do 12th grade physics and calc?"


"...and home schooling beyond 6th grade is a recipe for disaster."


"If you don't have hopes of your son/daughter going to college them sure the limited education you give your son/daughter from 7th to 12th grade might be OK."



"An education is of great importance in life. I am saying some parents should not be in charge of their child's education. There are others that do a fantastic job guiding their child through their education.

I also spoke about many parents not having the skill set to teach beyond 6th grade. You opted to not comment on that."


"The home school parent can not even come close to providing the skill set to adequately teach their son/daughter beyond 6th grade ([beeep], I dont think they can adequately teach them at all personally). IF you plan on having your son/daughter attend college (which not all do I understand) then you better bite the bullet and reenroll them back into public school once they hit 11 years old."


"In my opinion this is a key fault of many home schooling parents. Because they are so animatedly against public schooling for whatever reason, they will attempt to teach their own son/daughter and give them a sub-par education because of it.

Because few parents can teach 7 subjects they subscribe to some online teaching program or school which does a half-[beeep] job. Many times the reason a parent pulls their child fro a pubic school is because they do not like the accountability a public school requires of a parent. Phone calls home when a student is absent, immunization requirements, and mandatory events for parents are just a few reasons to pull little Johnny from school.

Add to that the lack of structured non-academic programs such as music, PE, art, organized sports and the home schooled child is getting the short end of the stick.



If I'm not mistake each of those quotes was from a teacher? Odd that experts on national education would have gotten it so consistently wrong. Who'd have thought it?



Quote:Let's try an experiment. For 10 years 10,000 random families are made to homeschool. For the same 10 years, 10,000 random families have their children go to public school. For the sake of comparison, let's say everything else is equal - in each group there are the same number of poor and rich, same number of college-educated, same number of different ethnic groups, etc. What do you think the results would be?



I guess you missed this one:
Surprisingly, several studies have found that home education may help eliminate the potential negative effects of certain socio-economic factors. Though children whose parents have university degrees score higher on tests of academic achievement than other home schooled children, home education appears to mitigate the harmful effect of low parental education levels. That is, public schools seem to educate children of poorly educated parents worse than do the poorly educated parents themselves. One study found that students taught at home by mothers who had never finished high school scored a full 55 percentile points higher than public school students from families with comparable education levels.








No, you missed my point. Homeschool can work but only if the parents are dedicated to it and the children respect the parents.

Here's a question for you. You claim to have educated 4 of your own kids and relatives, and you say you did a good job of it. I have no reason not to believe that. Do you think you could have had the same results educating and 4 random children? If not, what is the difference?
 
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