NEW RIFLE

South Paw Shooter

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Ok guys I want to build a Left hand LOOOONG RANGE rifle for shooting anything from Prairie dogs to Antelope. What would be better a 6.5x284 Norma, 243AI, 6mmAI or a 25-06AI I really want to reach out and go for a 1000yrd shot on a prairie dog and 6-700yrds on a coyote or farther after some practice on some pdogs.And how much can I expect to spend I am budgeting about $1000-$1500 for a Night force or Leupold.
 
I went with a 22-250 for what you want to do. I am pushing a 75 grain A-Max at just over 3300 fps. This is fast but not a barrel burner. Great long range capability with a bullet that has a great BC. Plus by going with a 22-250 you are keeping it simple, and inexpensive for your components. I went with a 28" 1in8 twist Krieger and a reworked Remington 700 action.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with the choices you listed. I just like keeping it simple. And when you are doing high volume shooting recoil can become an issue. And seeing impacts takes a little work with my heavy rig. But would be extremely difficult with the cartridge selections you listed. My rifle is even on the ragged edge of this. Tom.

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Farther than I can shoot. And I am pretty good with it out to 700 yards. That 75 grain bullet is a pretty good size bullet, and it has a fantastic BC. Do a little research on the ballistics and the energy. You will be pleasantly surprised. I know I was when I was researching what I wanted to build for a long range varminter.

I have some other long range rifles. But IMO the idea of a varminter is to keep it simple and keep it small. For obvious reasons including recoil for shooting all day long-especially in a PD field. And keeping the reloading costs down as much as possible.

You mentioned a 25-06. I am not not saying that would not be an effective long range varminter because it would be effective. But if you shot it all day in a PD field or even a fairly active ground hog field then you would notice the recoil. And it would be next to impossible(in field conditions) to see your impacts. Then compare 25 caliber components in price to 22 caliber components?? Just an opinion. But a lot of guys are going to the heavies in the 22 caliber, and liking it. Tom.
 
Hog Head, My Howa in 22-250 has a twist rate of 1 in 14, is this fast enough for that weight of bullet??



Mark2
 
Originally Posted By: Mark2Hog Head, My Howa in 22-250 has a twist rate of 1 in 14, is this fast enough for that weight of bullet??
Mark2

My 22 Varminter has a 1-14" twist. It will stabilize 55 gn bullets, but not 60 grainers, at leat the 60 grainers I tested. It could be the bullet configuration of the 60's I tested that won't allow for them to stabilize.
 
I'd op for the .243ai myself. Excellent selection of high BC bullets and a good selection of brass. Plus it'll be cheaper to reload the .243ai vs the 6.5-284.

I have no experience with the 25-06 or 25-06ai, but it's a bad little round. A friend is currently making a light weight 25-06ai for hunting. Run some ballistics and it does shine at longer ranges.

For PD shooting, I'd op for something with minimum recoil like the .243ai.

The .22-250 or .22-250ai would be an excellent choice with 75gr Amax. I'd suggest 1/8 twist, buy you should be able to get by with a 1/9 twist on the .22-250. with the .223 and .223ai's, some 9tw stab the 75gr Amax and some don't. Reason I'd suggest the 8tw just to be 100% sure.

Another factor though, some states won't allow big game hunting with .22cal stuff. I know WY won't let you hunt Antelope with .22cal. I believe they have a .23cal min.
 
Well I have to ask. How are you gonna build this rifle for $1500 if you put a Night Force scope on it? If you put a upper crust Leupold on it you probably still can't do it for $1500.
 
Originally Posted By: Mark2Hog Head, My Howa in 22-250 has a twist rate of 1 in 14, is this fast enough for that weight of bullet??



Mark2

Your 1in14 is probably too slow for the 75 grain pill. You never know for sure until you try it. However under normal circumstances the 1in14 would be too slow. Personally I decided what bullet I wanted to shoot in my rifle before I had it built. Then I asked Krieger what twist rate would be best for the exact bullet(75 grain A-Max). The Krieger tech said 1in8 would be the perfect twist for that specific bullet. Then I made a dummy round and had the rifle chambered for the dummy cartridge. This is an easy way to get your tolerances exactly where you want it.

I never could understand a 243AI---why not just build a 6mm Remington--it is the same thing??

When you compare the 75 grain bullets between the 22 and 243 caliber---the 22 caliber 75 grain bullets have a substantially better BC. So the 243 caliber bullets start out a bit faster, but at longer ranges they preform about the same as the 22 caliber bullets. So my opinion was why pay more for reloading components, and why put up with more recoil, for no more performance?? To get the performance from the 243 caliber you need to go to the 100 grain pills. And those pills just are not necessary for varmints. And they are too light for the bigger critters(IMO). So I see the 243 and the quarter bores as pretty much useless calibers. They are too big for the little stuff(critters), and too small for big stuff.

As far as deer and pronghorn are concerned. I consider the 6.5 mm caliber as the minimum caliber for good effective killing. So I would not consider any of the cartridges listed as being adequate for deer sized and larger critters. Just my opinion. Tom.
 
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Of the choices, I would also go with the 243AI. A 1-9 twist will let you shoot up to 105gr A-maxes. You'll need a faster twist if you wanna shoot 115gr D-Tacs and such.......
 
Originally Posted By: HOGGHEADOriginally Posted By: Mark2Hog Head, My Howa in 22-250 has a twist rate of 1 in 14, is this fast enough for that weight of bullet??



Mark2

Your 1in14 is probably too slow for the 75 grain pill. You never know for sure until you try it. However under normal circumstances the 1in14 would be too slow. Personally I decided what bullet I wanted to shoot in my rifle before I had it built. Then I asked Krieger what twist rate would be best for the exact bullet(75 grain A-Max). The Krieger tech said 1in8 would be the perfect twist for that specific bullet. Then I made a dummy round and had the rifle chambered for the dummy cartridge. This is an easy way to get your tolerances exactly where you want it.

I never could understand a 243AI---why not just build a 6mm Remington--it is the same thing??

When you compare the 75 grain bullets between the 22 and 243 caliber---the 22 caliber 75 grain bullets have a substantially better BC. So the 243 caliber bullets start out a bit faster, but at longer ranges they preform about the same as the 22 caliber bullets. So my opinion was why pay more for reloading components, and why put up with more recoil, for no more performance?? To get the performance from the 243 caliber you need to go to the 100 grain pills. And those pills just are not necessary for varmints. And they are too light for the bigger critters(IMO). So I see the 243 and the quarter bores as pretty much useless calibers. They are too big for the little stuff(critters), and too small for big stuff.

As far as deer and pronghorn are concerned. I consider the 6.5 mm caliber as the minimum caliber for good effective killing. So I would not consider any of the cartridges listed as being adequate for deer sized and larger critters. Just my opinion. Tom.

Granted everyone has there opinions, but why would you need a 75 gr bullet in a 22-250 for pd shooting. If you are saying that a 243 is over kill yet is shooting the same weight bullet how do you figure.

A 55 grain in my 22-250 is more than adequate for yotes, but I don't typically use it on pd. I will use my 223 for that because it is cheaper.

A 243 is a great round for antelope and even deer with the proper loads. Since the OP stated that he wanted something to take both varmints and antelope sized game then the 243AI would be the way to go. At least out west most states won't let you hunt big game with a .224 bullet.

I must add though that the 6.5x284 is an amazing round and would do well at long ranges. But there will be more expense and recoil.
 
HPW you are right. You do not need a 75 grain bullet to kill a PD. However the OP was about long distance shooting at varmints. And granted he did also say pronghorn. However IMO that is over reaching for a varmint rifle. And if the 75 grain 22 caliber bullet is over kill for a PD then what would a 243 caliber cartridge be??---By your assessment it would be overkill plus.

I know a lot of guys like the 243 and 25 caliber cartridges for larger game. It has been my experience that they are on the inadequate side for effective clean kills. But again as you rightly pointed out that is just an opinion. And I certainly respect yours. We just have a friendly disagreement here, that's all.

But again why go with a more expensive 243 AI when you can get the same performance from a 6mm Remington cartridge?? I just do not follow that logic. But then I have never been a wildcat kind of guy. My favorite cartridge is still the old 30-06. So I will admit that I probably am a little old fashioned. But I do know for sure that the 30-06 will "get er done".
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Have a nice day, Tom.
 
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I can think of 3 reasons why I'd prefer the 243 AI to the 6mm Rem:

1) better brass is available. Lapua, Norma, Nosler Custom, and Hornady all make 243 brass. They do not make 6mm Rem.

2) less case stretching=less case trimming

3) you can seat the longer, high BC bullets out farther in the 243 AI due to it's shorter case length. Thus, adding a powder capacity advantage in the process

If I were to bother with the 6mm case, I would most definitely AI it. Otherwise, it has no advantages whatsoever over the 243 Win case IMO......
 
Thanks, Tom. I will admit no critter will ever know the difference in which one killed it.

The 6mm AI is popular at our range, but I believe the guys who shoot them either built on long actions, or single feed them. Not necessary for a strictly huntin' rig, I know......
 
My vote is 6mm ai. The benefit is a longer throat. This will help with heavier bullets not taking up case capacity. If you necksize stretching should be minimal. True you will not have great brass available, but with proper prep some of it can be overcome. Neck turning, sorting by weight, but ultimately good brass is good brass. Still I would vote for the 6mm ai.
 
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunThat would depend on how it is throated.

Even in a short action hunting rifle?


Right, if it is a short action I would opt for the 6.5x284. Thats just my opinion.
 
If I built a 6.5x284 it would be on a long action, unless it was strictly a hunting rifle. The 6.5mm target bullets are even longer than the 6mm ones......
 
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