17mach2 vs 22long?
- Thread starter 223steve
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LeviSS
New member
I'm guessing you mean 22 long rifle, since not too many people are making the 22longs.
I don't own a 17hm2, but have read a lot about them and plan to own one.
Both can be plenty accurate, and with the .22lr, you'll probably end up spending close to what a box of 17hm2 costs to get a round that shoots as consistent. The advantage of the 17 is not so much accuracy as it is drop. The 17 has very little drop out to 100yds, so there is less adjustment required.
My philosophy is if you don't own a .22lr, buy one. They are cheap to shoot and versatile. Then get one of the other 17 caliber rimfires later down the road.
I don't own a 17hm2, but have read a lot about them and plan to own one.
Both can be plenty accurate, and with the .22lr, you'll probably end up spending close to what a box of 17hm2 costs to get a round that shoots as consistent. The advantage of the 17 is not so much accuracy as it is drop. The 17 has very little drop out to 100yds, so there is less adjustment required.
My philosophy is if you don't own a .22lr, buy one. They are cheap to shoot and versatile. Then get one of the other 17 caliber rimfires later down the road.
OldTurtle
Moderator - Deceased
The difference in trajectory at 100 yards between a high velocity .22lr and a .17m2 out of my Ruger 10/22 is 35 - 1/4" clicks, as that is what I have to change if I change barrels with the same scope/receiver....
I have since acquired another 10/22 and converted to a full time .17M2
As to the effect on a rabbit and assuming that both would be shot at the same distance, I think there is a measurable difference in the effect of a 17gr ballistic tip at 2100 fps muzzle velocity and a 40gr hollow point 1050 fps muzzle velocity...The speed of the ballistic tip will cause more meat damage, but the hollow point will kill just as dead...provided the points of impact are the same..
My .22lr: An ultra-light at 5#
My .17M2: A 'not so light' for better stability
I have since acquired another 10/22 and converted to a full time .17M2
As to the effect on a rabbit and assuming that both would be shot at the same distance, I think there is a measurable difference in the effect of a 17gr ballistic tip at 2100 fps muzzle velocity and a 40gr hollow point 1050 fps muzzle velocity...The speed of the ballistic tip will cause more meat damage, but the hollow point will kill just as dead...provided the points of impact are the same..
My .22lr: An ultra-light at 5#
My .17M2: A 'not so light' for better stability
claimbuster
New member
Hey OT, those are two mighty fine looking rifles.
However, in the future you might want to give some thought to ironing those sheets you use as a background. They are terribly wrinkled.
However, in the future you might want to give some thought to ironing those sheets you use as a background. They are terribly wrinkled.
Don Fischer
New member
I hardly ever shoot my 22's any more. But my son got one of those 17's and it'll out shoot my 22 mag. Probably out shoot my 22's also. Where the problem would come in for me is if you shoot a rabbit in the body, that 17 will probably really tear them up, to much speed and to fragile a bullet. Those bullet's in them, at least the one's my son get's, are Hornady V-Max's.
Getting back into small game, one gun I plan on using is my mod 16 Smith in 32 S&W Long with cast bullets. 95gr cast bullet @ 600fps will kill any rabbit I could hit with it without destroying much meat.
Getting back into small game, one gun I plan on using is my mod 16 Smith in 32 S&W Long with cast bullets. 95gr cast bullet @ 600fps will kill any rabbit I could hit with it without destroying much meat.
I dont have exsperience with the mach2 but I have shot a bunch with the hmr. My advice is headshots only. The last 2 I took I got both in the neck. One the head almost fell off and the other was angled so the bullet took out it's shoulder so I had the back half of the bunny and one front leg lol
TripleDeuce660
Active member
I got 22LR and 17m2.
22lr iron sights great out to 50 yards in heavy brush but much beyond that it starts dropping fast. Always shoot subsonics to keep the noise down and no scope for the heavy brush to scratch ranges are so short a scope doesn't really help.
The 17m2 is flat out to about 100 yards. It is less destructive then 17hmr on small game and that is good. I got a scope on the hm2 to take advantage of the added range. I use it in more open areas like the desert. This is pretty much a niche round. It is basicaly the ultimate small game cartridge. Flatter shooting and more accurate at 100 yards then any HV 22lr. Not as destructive or expensive to shoot as the HMR or 22mag. It can't be beat out to 100 yards for small game. Most small game hunting is 50 yards and less so a shotgun or 22lr is fine. Not really a big need for hm2 unless you shoot past 50 yards. I use the hm2 for jackrabbits mostly since cottontails are in heavy brush usualy.
as said above if you have a 22lr get the hm2 if you don't have a 22lr then that is the place to start.
22lr iron sights great out to 50 yards in heavy brush but much beyond that it starts dropping fast. Always shoot subsonics to keep the noise down and no scope for the heavy brush to scratch ranges are so short a scope doesn't really help.
The 17m2 is flat out to about 100 yards. It is less destructive then 17hmr on small game and that is good. I got a scope on the hm2 to take advantage of the added range. I use it in more open areas like the desert. This is pretty much a niche round. It is basicaly the ultimate small game cartridge. Flatter shooting and more accurate at 100 yards then any HV 22lr. Not as destructive or expensive to shoot as the HMR or 22mag. It can't be beat out to 100 yards for small game. Most small game hunting is 50 yards and less so a shotgun or 22lr is fine. Not really a big need for hm2 unless you shoot past 50 yards. I use the hm2 for jackrabbits mostly since cottontails are in heavy brush usualy.
as said above if you have a 22lr get the hm2 if you don't have a 22lr then that is the place to start.
22LR, many rifles and types made for it
cheap ammo is about $2 per 50 round
Good accurate ammo $5-$15 a box
I like SK High Velocity 40 grain hollow points (German made) for small game $6-$8 a box
I don't have a .17M2, Had a .17 HRM, but sold it
most of my hunting is under 75 yards so it was of no use to me. I will buy a .17M2 some day just to try it out, but it won't replace any of my 22s, well I guess it could!
cheap ammo is about $2 per 50 round
Good accurate ammo $5-$15 a box
I like SK High Velocity 40 grain hollow points (German made) for small game $6-$8 a box
I don't have a .17M2, Had a .17 HRM, but sold it
most of my hunting is under 75 yards so it was of no use to me. I will buy a .17M2 some day just to try it out, but it won't replace any of my 22s, well I guess it could!
Mike Pearson
New member
Originally Posted By: TripleDeuce660I got 22LR and 17m2.
22lr iron sights great out to 50 yards in heavy brush but much beyond that it starts dropping fast. Always shoot subsonics to keep the noise down and no scope for the heavy brush to scratch ranges are so short a scope doesn't really help.
The 17m2 is flat out to about 100 yards. It is less destructive then 17hmr on small game and that is good. I got a scope on the hm2 to take advantage of the added range. I use it in more open areas like the desert. This is pretty much a niche round. It is basicaly the ultimate small game cartridge. Flatter shooting and more accurate at 100 yards then any HV 22lr. Not as destructive or expensive to shoot as the HMR or 22mag. It can't be beat out to 100 yards for small game. Most small game hunting is 50 yards and less so a shotgun or 22lr is fine. Not really a big need for hm2 unless you shoot past 50 yards. I use the hm2 for jackrabbits mostly since cottontails are in heavy brush usualy.
as said above if you have a 22lr get the hm2 if you don't have a 22lr then that is the place to start.
You hit on something when you said that it can't be beat out to 100 yards. However, most small game is taken at 50 and under yards. For those shots, a .22 LR (and a quiet subsonic hollowpoint load at that) can't be beat.
The way I see the .17M2 is that it actually DOES what the Stinger (and other hyper-velocity .22 loads) were originally designed to do and that is, extend the rimfire's range on small stuff (ground squirrels, prairie dogs, etc.) and elevate the rim-fire's performance on bigger stuff (woodchucks, coon, jackrabbits) at say 50-75 yards at most. The hyper .22's do a pretty good job terminally speaking but fell short in the accuracy deparment. The one thing I wanted to see was how the hyper .22's compared to the .17M2 at 100 yards in destruction capabilities. A buddy of mine who owns a couple super-accurate M2's agreed to do a side by side 100 yard test. He got a bunch of 64 oz. pop bottles filled with water and shot them with everything from Thunderbolts, regular LR hollowpoints, subsonic hollowpoints, Yellow Jackets, Stingers, Quik-Shok and the .17M2. Again, the reasoning was that the hypers and the M2 were designed to be used (on at least some prey) at 100 yards. I got to tell you that the M2 destroyed the competition at that range. No contest! The ONLY .22 load that came even somewhat close was the Quik-Shok and even there, the difference was very easy to see in favor of the M2. The Stinger and Yellow Jacket? Blown away!
It was pretty revealing I thought and while varmints are not pop bottles, I think that a cartridge that is demonstrably superior (to other cartridges) on one is not going to be inferior on the other. --- Mike
22lr iron sights great out to 50 yards in heavy brush but much beyond that it starts dropping fast. Always shoot subsonics to keep the noise down and no scope for the heavy brush to scratch ranges are so short a scope doesn't really help.
The 17m2 is flat out to about 100 yards. It is less destructive then 17hmr on small game and that is good. I got a scope on the hm2 to take advantage of the added range. I use it in more open areas like the desert. This is pretty much a niche round. It is basicaly the ultimate small game cartridge. Flatter shooting and more accurate at 100 yards then any HV 22lr. Not as destructive or expensive to shoot as the HMR or 22mag. It can't be beat out to 100 yards for small game. Most small game hunting is 50 yards and less so a shotgun or 22lr is fine. Not really a big need for hm2 unless you shoot past 50 yards. I use the hm2 for jackrabbits mostly since cottontails are in heavy brush usualy.
as said above if you have a 22lr get the hm2 if you don't have a 22lr then that is the place to start.
You hit on something when you said that it can't be beat out to 100 yards. However, most small game is taken at 50 and under yards. For those shots, a .22 LR (and a quiet subsonic hollowpoint load at that) can't be beat.
The way I see the .17M2 is that it actually DOES what the Stinger (and other hyper-velocity .22 loads) were originally designed to do and that is, extend the rimfire's range on small stuff (ground squirrels, prairie dogs, etc.) and elevate the rim-fire's performance on bigger stuff (woodchucks, coon, jackrabbits) at say 50-75 yards at most. The hyper .22's do a pretty good job terminally speaking but fell short in the accuracy deparment. The one thing I wanted to see was how the hyper .22's compared to the .17M2 at 100 yards in destruction capabilities. A buddy of mine who owns a couple super-accurate M2's agreed to do a side by side 100 yard test. He got a bunch of 64 oz. pop bottles filled with water and shot them with everything from Thunderbolts, regular LR hollowpoints, subsonic hollowpoints, Yellow Jackets, Stingers, Quik-Shok and the .17M2. Again, the reasoning was that the hypers and the M2 were designed to be used (on at least some prey) at 100 yards. I got to tell you that the M2 destroyed the competition at that range. No contest! The ONLY .22 load that came even somewhat close was the Quik-Shok and even there, the difference was very easy to see in favor of the M2. The Stinger and Yellow Jacket? Blown away!
It was pretty revealing I thought and while varmints are not pop bottles, I think that a cartridge that is demonstrably superior (to other cartridges) on one is not going to be inferior on the other. --- Mike
Albertacoyotecaller
Member
I like the 17mach2. I also converted a Ruger 10/22 over using and EABCO kit. Only issue I have is using high cap magazines. This would be the perfect little rimfire gopher gun but I am limited to 10 round mags. I was hoping I could use larger capacity mags but the rounds seem to tumble bullet up in the banana style mags.
Greg
Greg
Mike Pearson
New member
Alberta, you really like those longer clips? You see, I never did care for them myself. I always figured Ruger got it right with their standard clip that fits flush in the stock. Oh well, different strokes for different foks I guess!
--- Mike
--- Mike
TripleDeuce660
Active member
Originally Posted By: Mike PearsonOriginally Posted By: TripleDeuce660I got 22LR and 17m2.
22lr iron sights great out to 50 yards in heavy brush but much beyond that it starts dropping fast. Always shoot subsonics to keep the noise down and no scope for the heavy brush to scratch ranges are so short a scope doesn't really help.
The 17m2 is flat out to about 100 yards. It is less destructive then 17hmr on small game and that is good. I got a scope on the hm2 to take advantage of the added range. I use it in more open areas like the desert. This is pretty much a niche round. It is basicaly the ultimate small game cartridge. Flatter shooting and more accurate at 100 yards then any HV 22lr. Not as destructive or expensive to shoot as the HMR or 22mag. It can't be beat out to 100 yards for small game. Most small game hunting is 50 yards and less so a shotgun or 22lr is fine. Not really a big need for hm2 unless you shoot past 50 yards. I use the hm2 for jackrabbits mostly since cottontails are in heavy brush usualy.
as said above if you have a 22lr get the hm2 if you don't have a 22lr then that is the place to start.
You hit on something when you said that it can't be beat out to 100 yards. However, most small game is taken at 50 and under yards. For those shots, a .22 LR (and a quiet subsonic hollowpoint load at that) can't be beat.
The way I see the .17M2 is that it actually DOES what the Stinger (and other hyper-velocity .22 loads) were originally designed to do and that is, extend the rimfire's range on small stuff (ground squirrels, prairie dogs, etc.) and elevate the rim-fire's performance on bigger stuff (woodchucks, coon, jackrabbits) at say 50-75 yards at most. The hyper .22's do a pretty good job terminally speaking but fell short in the accuracy deparment. The one thing I wanted to see was how the hyper .22's compared to the .17M2 at 100 yards in destruction capabilities. A buddy of mine who owns a couple super-accurate M2's agreed to do a side by side 100 yard test. He got a bunch of 64 oz. pop bottles filled with water and shot them with everything from Thunderbolts, regular LR hollowpoints, subsonic hollowpoints, Yellow Jackets, Stingers, Quik-Shok and the .17M2. Again, the reasoning was that the hypers and the M2 were designed to be used (on at least some prey) at 100 yards. I got to tell you that the M2 destroyed the competition at that range. No contest! The ONLY .22 load that came even somewhat close was the Quik-Shok and even there, the difference was very easy to see in favor of the M2. The Stinger and Yellow Jacket? Blown away!
It was pretty revealing I thought and while varmints are not pop bottles, I think that a cartridge that is demonstrably superior (to other cartridges) on one is not going to be inferior on the other. --- Mike
Exactly
22lr iron sights great out to 50 yards in heavy brush but much beyond that it starts dropping fast. Always shoot subsonics to keep the noise down and no scope for the heavy brush to scratch ranges are so short a scope doesn't really help.
The 17m2 is flat out to about 100 yards. It is less destructive then 17hmr on small game and that is good. I got a scope on the hm2 to take advantage of the added range. I use it in more open areas like the desert. This is pretty much a niche round. It is basicaly the ultimate small game cartridge. Flatter shooting and more accurate at 100 yards then any HV 22lr. Not as destructive or expensive to shoot as the HMR or 22mag. It can't be beat out to 100 yards for small game. Most small game hunting is 50 yards and less so a shotgun or 22lr is fine. Not really a big need for hm2 unless you shoot past 50 yards. I use the hm2 for jackrabbits mostly since cottontails are in heavy brush usualy.
as said above if you have a 22lr get the hm2 if you don't have a 22lr then that is the place to start.
You hit on something when you said that it can't be beat out to 100 yards. However, most small game is taken at 50 and under yards. For those shots, a .22 LR (and a quiet subsonic hollowpoint load at that) can't be beat.
The way I see the .17M2 is that it actually DOES what the Stinger (and other hyper-velocity .22 loads) were originally designed to do and that is, extend the rimfire's range on small stuff (ground squirrels, prairie dogs, etc.) and elevate the rim-fire's performance on bigger stuff (woodchucks, coon, jackrabbits) at say 50-75 yards at most. The hyper .22's do a pretty good job terminally speaking but fell short in the accuracy deparment. The one thing I wanted to see was how the hyper .22's compared to the .17M2 at 100 yards in destruction capabilities. A buddy of mine who owns a couple super-accurate M2's agreed to do a side by side 100 yard test. He got a bunch of 64 oz. pop bottles filled with water and shot them with everything from Thunderbolts, regular LR hollowpoints, subsonic hollowpoints, Yellow Jackets, Stingers, Quik-Shok and the .17M2. Again, the reasoning was that the hypers and the M2 were designed to be used (on at least some prey) at 100 yards. I got to tell you that the M2 destroyed the competition at that range. No contest! The ONLY .22 load that came even somewhat close was the Quik-Shok and even there, the difference was very easy to see in favor of the M2. The Stinger and Yellow Jacket? Blown away!
It was pretty revealing I thought and while varmints are not pop bottles, I think that a cartridge that is demonstrably superior (to other cartridges) on one is not going to be inferior on the other. --- Mike
Exactly
TripleDeuce660
Active member
More then one person has contacted cci and they said they have no plans to discontinue it.
The hm2 dissapearing is hype. There are less guns chambered for 5mm but you can still get ammo for it.
The hm2 dissapearing is hype. There are less guns chambered for 5mm but you can still get ammo for it.
They are releasing a non-lead round soon. No dying round is going to get new ammo. When it is released, I am told it will be the only non-lead rimfire round out. That will not kill the round either. Ammo can be found for $4something a box of 50. Find what your gun shoots (probably be eley unless it doesn't like the extra speed), and stock up. Then it dying doesn't matter. The it's dying has been around for several years, CCI has said they will make it, and that it's getting more popular. Leave the hype to the Dems.
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stealthman
New member
A little off topic, but if you go with the 10/22 conversion, it won't feed in the 25 round mags as mentioned above. I had great luck with both the factory 10 rounders as well as the 50 round MWG. They are spendy, but boy do they work great.
The Virginian
New member
Originally Posted By: 6mm06What is the likelihood that the 17M2 will survive? I read something recently that suggests it might not continue to thrive. I hope that information is wrong. I've never owned one, but would like to, but only if ammo will continue to be available.
Here's a quote from a gentleman at rimfirecentral that I though was encouraging.
As many of you know, I spent a bit of time recently trying to wrangle a good price on a boat load of HM2 ammo. (mission accomplished) And in the process, I came across quite a few, very knowledgeable people, some of whom are first-hand sources, and are able to answer the important questions regarding the future of the round.
First, was Scott Volquartsen, whose company still manufactures a rifle (not just conversion) chambered in .17 HM2. According to Mr. V, sales for rifles chambered in the Mach 2 round have been unequivocally good. And to that, I say congratulations, and thank you for being one to stay the course! I hope success follows you in all of your endeavors.
Secondly, I worked closely with the North American distributor for Eley ammo. (from which our purchase was derived) Again, much to my surprise, the statement was made that HM2 ammo is going to most likely be available indefinitely. To that, it was also added, that more ammo is being sold now, than at any time in the last 3 or4 years. (who would have known?) And, aside from the group buy, spikes in ammo sales are noticed consistently in the spring, around the time when most varmints begin to stir. (there is a target market)
There have been numerous other good vibes generated, but these are first-hand sources - those whom I feel are most knowledgeable, and most trustworthy. It constantly comes up that someone has some opinion, or a hesitance to take the plunge, where a .17 HM2 is concerned. Having been fortunate enough to have the group buy experience - with all of its different facets - under my belt, I feel like I am now truly informed as to where this round stands. And I feel pretty confident that even if major manufacturers are dropping it, or are afraid of it, there is still a truly viable market for it.
That being said, I have several cases of ammo, and a new HM2 build to get started on.
Here's a quote from a gentleman at rimfirecentral that I though was encouraging.
As many of you know, I spent a bit of time recently trying to wrangle a good price on a boat load of HM2 ammo. (mission accomplished) And in the process, I came across quite a few, very knowledgeable people, some of whom are first-hand sources, and are able to answer the important questions regarding the future of the round.
First, was Scott Volquartsen, whose company still manufactures a rifle (not just conversion) chambered in .17 HM2. According to Mr. V, sales for rifles chambered in the Mach 2 round have been unequivocally good. And to that, I say congratulations, and thank you for being one to stay the course! I hope success follows you in all of your endeavors.
Secondly, I worked closely with the North American distributor for Eley ammo. (from which our purchase was derived) Again, much to my surprise, the statement was made that HM2 ammo is going to most likely be available indefinitely. To that, it was also added, that more ammo is being sold now, than at any time in the last 3 or4 years. (who would have known?) And, aside from the group buy, spikes in ammo sales are noticed consistently in the spring, around the time when most varmints begin to stir. (there is a target market)
There have been numerous other good vibes generated, but these are first-hand sources - those whom I feel are most knowledgeable, and most trustworthy. It constantly comes up that someone has some opinion, or a hesitance to take the plunge, where a .17 HM2 is concerned. Having been fortunate enough to have the group buy experience - with all of its different facets - under my belt, I feel like I am now truly informed as to where this round stands. And I feel pretty confident that even if major manufacturers are dropping it, or are afraid of it, there is still a truly viable market for it.
That being said, I have several cases of ammo, and a new HM2 build to get started on.