Different results - heres why

sleddogg

sleddogg

New member
Lots of theories on Eastern coyotes and why they are hard to kill or not hard to kill. Why some folks think there are alot of dogs, some never see one.

Let me try to explain what I know to be fact.

OK ...... lets pick another sport. Baseball. We start off as kids in tee ball. Then we learn and advance to little league, babe Ruth, high school, college, minors, AAA, and maybe Pro.

Pro has no problem hitting a 97 mile per hour fastball. Little leager can't see the pitch. Even worse he has no idea how anyone can. Seems impossible ........

Such is the difference in calling coyotes. Some callers are novice, some ametuer, some experts, and a few Pros. The difference between what an Expert and a novice can kill a year in a given area is huge .

So just 'cause you "hunt hard" means absolutely nothing. Hunt as hard as you want, but until you get your ducks in a row, it is gonna frustrate you !! Until you put the years in coyote hunting in the East, make all the mistakes, learn what is a huntable stand and whats not, sort out all the things that matter and don't, you WILL struggle.

I started hunting coyotes in eranest in the 70's, and didn't get good results and command of the dogs until the mid 80's. It takes a long time to learn in an area that has a lower coyote density.

So to say a fella in Pa, NY, or Massachusetts will only kill a few coyotes a year if he is lucky is a statement made by the Tee ball player. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Experience dictates the results, nothing more.
 
Wow sleddog, that was some post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I thought we talked about this already. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

You obviously have a lot of experience calling coyotes. I agree that experience is a key factor in coyote hunting success, and that there are callers out there with varying degrees of skill...varsity, JV, or however you choose to describe it.

But you can't discount differences in states, areas within states, northern/southern coyote habits, etc. I have spent many a cold winter stand calling in NJ and PA with limited success. This is compared to my one and only coyote hunting trip out west, which was in Texas. Within the first 30 to 40 minutes of the hunt, I called and killed this one:

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This was not a guided hunt. It was just two dumb guys from NJ trying out coyote calling in a southwestern state. My calling experience at the time was what I would consider "adequate." My buddy had no calling experience whatsoever. But in my mind, there is a huge difference in coyote population density and calling response in the southwest as compared to the northeast. I believe the same factors exist in the various parts of the northeast.

You are a big proponent of calling experience as THE factor in predator hunting success. Again, I agree it is a factor, but it is not the ONLY factor.

Just my .02.
 
I hunted Colorado in the early 80's, and killed 5 coyotes by 11 A.M. my first day (guided)..... Not much to know, blow a call, kill a coyote standing in the open 150 yards out. Easy.

Quote:
You are a big proponent of calling experience as THE factor in predator hunting success. Again, I agree it is a factor, but it is not the ONLY factor.



In the EAST (not West), it is THE factor.
 
Quote:
I hunted Colorado in the early 80's, and killed 5 coyotes by 11 A.M. my first day (guided)..... Not much to know, blow a call, kill a coyote standing in the open 150 yards out. Easy.







Yes sir, piece of cake! Like shooting fish in a barrel!

All you need to kill a whole bunch of them stupid coyotes in Colorado is any old pickup truck with squeaky door hinges. Just sit in the warm cab of that old truck and open and close the door. They'll come running out from behind bushes and trees, out of holes, swim across rivers and seemingly just drop out of the sky. We don't need no stinking e-callers, hand calls, camo or none of that other crap out West. Total foolishness to waste money on that nonsense. The dumb coyotes will even jump in the bed for ya if you throw a bowl of Purina back there.

I dunno sleddog, but I think if I would of had a guide in CO and only killed five by 11:00AM I would of been very disappointed. You should of at least killed a dozen (maybe more) by that late hour of the morning. You should of ran over a couple just driving around.

By some chance had that guide lubed his door hinges recently? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif I know I made that mistake once and will NEVER do it again.
 
I was hunting outside of Denver in the areas around Estes park. My guide was a Lakota Indian. Very knowledable.

He took me around until it got too hot to be fun for me. Early September I believe. Doggin - I understand the coyotes I shot were YOY (very small), and also understand we had a great morning. But ......... it really was like fish in a barrel. Very open gunning.

What struck me as odd was coyote respond in the open well into the morning. Lots of harvested wide open fields, with the round irrigation booms still in place. I really couldn't believe it at first.

That rarely happens in New England.

Folks long to hunt out West, but I would rather the East for my own reasons.

Really depends on ones definition of "good hunting". Great steaks in Denver though .....
 
Quote:
I hunted Colorado in the early 80's, and killed 5 coyotes by 11 A.M. my first day (guided)..... Not much to know, blow a call, kill a coyote standing in the open 150 yards out. Easy.

Quote:
You are a big proponent of calling experience as THE factor in predator hunting success. Again, I agree it is a factor, but it is not the ONLY factor.



In the EAST (not West), it is THE factor.


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

But at least you aren't saying lack of northeastern success is due to laziness and stubborness any more. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Quote:
But at least you aren't saying lack of northeastern success is due to laziness and stubborness any more.




I still say that. In many cases.
 
I will agree with 4949. I consider myself a decent caller. Probably better than most in this area. But, calling experience is nowhere near THE ONLY factor in success in the east. I called in 11 coyotes and a fox this past season and I shot 2 of the coyotes and another guy shot the fox. The rest were either missed(not by me) or never presented the shot for my weapon of choice. Around here, thats a pretty good year. And I spend quite a bit of time in the field. More important factors are quality of property to hunt, coyote population, other calling pressure,ect.. The list goes on. So to say your statements are FACT is kinda a stretch. I think alot of guys with way more scientific data than you would have to agree.
Just my opinion. I'm not trying to start anything /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Quote:
But, calling experience is nowhere near THE ONLY factor in success in the east



Nope not the only factor, just the most important.

You don't call lots of coyote here, so .........I try to maximum my call in to kill ratio by hunting elevated stands ALOT. Rarely winded (my stands are high), and usually they hunt right in.

Guess thats not coyote hunting to most.

Ohio .... callin 11 coyotes in the East is a great start !!But, it would really bum me to call 11 and only kill 2. Treestand or downwind tailgunner will help boost your kills next year.

Thats about what happened to me my first 2 years of hunting coyotes here ........... wasn't happy with that, so I changed techniques.

Its all what a fella is happy with. These days, just happy to get a day in the field /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
You make sense, knockem. And I don't doubt sleddog's experience or ability one bit. I just have a problem with his assertion on the other thread that the lack of eastern calling success is due to the eastern hunter's laziness and stubborness. Then he starts this thread and basically says we don't have success because we don't know what we are doing.

So which is it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

It's all in the delivery sleddog. You may have more calling experience than the rest of us here, but if you want us to listen to your advice you should humble yourself.
 
Yea I saw the other post that he wrote and I think it offended people...Lazy!!!He needs to come down here and go coon hunting with me about 6 nights straight in a row!!!I will guarantee he wont last the first night chasing these dogs around these mountains.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Chad, I didn't think you guys had any coons out there. Back a couple years ago when I was trying to get some changes made to our VA calling regulations, Mike Fies the Wildlife Biologist and Furbearer Program Manager for the VDGIF, would not support calling coon with e-callers cause the population was so low west of the Blue Ridge. I did however get it changed to where it was legal to call bobcats with e-callers and the season got extended at the same time till the end of Feb.

By the way, I ain't gonna try and follow you nowhere behind no pack of hounds at night. I can hardly keep up with my Beagles on a slow rabbit. LOL

I think he meant "some" callers lack motivation and dedication. Me, I am just old, still motivated though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
 
I doubt sleddog meant to offend anyone. I don't think I can ever remember any post of his in which he did so on purpose. Looking at it from another point of view, maybe the "lazy" statement only applies if it fits. Like many of you I work for every coyote I kill. There aren't any farms and fields around here. Nothing but hundreds of thousands of acres of rough, steep sided timbered ridges and brushy creek bottoms in the hollers. Often I walk anywhere from 3-6 miles cross country and sometimes in some pretty good snows. I average about one coyote to six stands early in the year and that tapers to one to a dozen later in the season. I understand what sleddog is trying to say and made a swat at saying the same thing in another thread. It is aggravating to read a post from an impatient new caller that wants instant success and expects that because he has seen a couple video's, read a magazine article or two, and bought the greatest new caller in the land. This guy ignores what I call "woodsmanship" and doesn't scout, hunts close to his truck, makes noise setting up, sets up in poor places, forgets the wind, moves around on the stand, and generally bungles and fumbles his way along - then doesn't understand why he can't call a coyote. Then he gets on the Internet and ask for a magic answer to be posted that will get him out of the red and into the black stacking up the body count. Keep the post short though as he doesn't want to bother reading through a bunch of useless stuff. It happens all the time and for old hands that have been around awhile it does get tiresome and takes a lot of patience to keep trying to direct them to good information (that they could find on their own if they bothered to look). I can't speak for sleddog, maybe he is just venting, maybe he is trying to provoke some careful thought in some readers, perhaps he wasn't perfectly clear in the wording. And maybe if it doesn't apply we shouldn't take it personal. If an honest inner look reveals something in his statement, then a good hunter is going to reflect on that and do better with his next stands. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Yea Sonny thats probably what he meant...I think what he is really trying to say when it comes down to it is that people goes and buys a caller and poof,their a predator hunter....Its alot more than that....I cant answer for him....Yea Sonny when I coon hunted full time I kept count and me and my uncle would tree anywhere form 200 to 300 coon a year!!!Thats not alot in some states I know but we thought we where professional coon hunters but that was hunting 6 nights a week!!!....I dont go like I used to and I have only got one dog and hes that once in a lifetime dog that will have a home until the end....Hes a cold nosed hound and can tree a 2 day old track and got the mouth of a train whistle!!!Big deep ball on track and the chop on the tree of a lumberjack....
This is Walk's RockRavensThunderhead....He is grandson to Sackett on top side and Clover bred on the bottom...Hes a big hound!!!
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Keeping everyones' posts in mind, I will say "Fair enough." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

But like I said before....it's all in the delivery.
 
I feel like sled is on the right track but might be coming off a little wrong.

I by NO means, consider myself a pro, but it is my opinion that the "stand" is absolutely the most important factor in the east. With the thick places in the east, that is what makes a Pro. I believe that a smarter hunter, picking a better stand, is what sled is talking about. An experienced hunter will pick a stand MUCH different than a novice, and why they have different results.

Of course there are many things such as talking/noise, parking to close, slamming doors, poor entry that people learn early not to do; but may still not have good results. Set up is the breaker.

First off you need to pick a "stand" that is in the same zip code as at least one coyote. Location, geography, population, ect... dictate that but if there is no coyotes in walking/running distance, they are not going to fly over with Delta /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif This possibility is were most guys hang up and think there must be no coyotes because they didn't SEE any. However, there may have been lots of movement, it was just in the bushes.

Unlike the hunter, the coyote doesn't have to come into view to know you are there. If you give the coyote an opportunity to go downwind yet still stay in cover, your busted ever time & never seen the coyote. Out west, many places have enough opening so that if the coyote moves around much, your at least going to catch a glimpse.

So as you become a better caller & hunter in the east you pick your stands more wisely. You will not set up as to give the coyote an advantage. Giving up a great spot because the terrain allows the coyote ample opportunity to investigate without using his eyes becomes common. Or maybe skipping a setup because the wind was wrong that day. A novice may set up anyway & educate the coyote (making him even harder to kill when the wind is right).

The only thing predictable about coyotes are they are unpredictable /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif. Some may charge in with no care in the world, but the experienced caller knows how to set up to play the odds. Bad set up with 100 coyotes listening still equals poor results. I’d like to know how many coyotes I’ve called that I didn’t see….

They are not plentiful in the east, but if you find a place were the terrain only allows the coyote one place/funnel to come in with cover & wind, you have the upper hand. AAA players find this spot, TEE-Ball players will be running the bases backwards /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I know... I held the bat by the big end a while myself.
 
Quote:

You are a big proponent of calling experience as THE factor in predator hunting success. Again, I agree it is a factor, but it is not the ONLY factor.




Quote:
In the EAST (not West), it is THE factor.



Saying that calling experience is THE factor is a simplistic approach.

I can only speak for my own hunting spots and neither is "East" or "West", but Minnesota and Kentucky. Different rules apply to those markedly different terrains making the setup critical. I've had dogs respond to the same exact calling sequences and the SETUP proved the deciding factor in the kill. As the post above says, a "squeeky door hinge" or even a high pitched fart might make an animal that is naturally curious respond (or not respond). In fact, my first dog of the 2008 season came in without ANY CALLING at all. I knew the land well and SETUP on what I suspected was their travel route and it was, as the dog was in traveling mode and not hunting or responding to a call. Shot the poor dog at 40 yards and she would have trotted right by me at 20 yards had I waited a little more. I was there maybe 5 minutes when she showed up. Luck? Maybe. Right spot (setup), you betcha...

Sure, calling is super important, but setup, calling, and execution TOGETHER determine success. Calling is not the Almighty Brush Stroke for yote hunting in my experience.
 
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