The same people that decided that gory pictures and cussing was not expectable redfrog. You guys are capable of sorting out what is acceptable and what is not. That is your job right? I can't cuss on here and I can't post gory pictures right? Are you imposing your ethics on me or are you just looking out for PM and the image of the sport?
Since the thread that had a good ethics discussion going was locked...
- Thread starter Vogelsong
- Start date
We're all so worried about what the tree huggers will think if they see a picture of a coyote thats wounded,see a prairie dog blown to peices or anything like that.I dont think that we should be half as worried about those things as much as we should worry about what we are reading right here on this thread.In my opinion its this kind of stuff that could be the result of us losing our right to hunt.It doesnt matter if you hunt coyotes with hounds,spot and stalk,trap them,or call them in.Respect eachother in what we decide to do and how we do it.I dont bash animals over the head when I trap them so that they wont have a hole in their pelt,some do and thats fine.I dont take pictures of wounded coyotes,some do and thats fine. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Just kiddin Barry. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
But seriously it doesnt matter to me how you hunt just as long as its legal.If you can live with seeing an animal suffer thats fine but I dont wanna hear about it and I dont think its necessary to show pictures of it.I think that if we're worried about losing our right to hunt then we should straighten up and learn to except that not everyone does things the same way.Because the same person your bashing for being an unethical hunter will fight just as hard as the most ethical hunter you know will,when its time to deal with those idiots we call bunny huggers.Thats the way I see it.
Just kiddin Barry. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
But seriously it doesnt matter to me how you hunt just as long as its legal.If you can live with seeing an animal suffer thats fine but I dont wanna hear about it and I dont think its necessary to show pictures of it.I think that if we're worried about losing our right to hunt then we should straighten up and learn to except that not everyone does things the same way.Because the same person your bashing for being an unethical hunter will fight just as hard as the most ethical hunter you know will,when its time to deal with those idiots we call bunny huggers.Thats the way I see it.
kc_hhsl
New member
Wow ... what a series of posts. It should make everyone think about their own beliefs. If that happens then this thread is well worth the time that it took to get created.
We all have varying level of beliefs. I assume everyone wants to hunt within the legal limits of the law. With this, the each person must show someone they disagree with grace. If so, then we can all learn from the discussion.
Even a comment or statment you don't agree with, don't support, think is not getting to the point you believe is accurate can still provide the start of making you rethink what you see as right and/or wrong. If after reading it helps you rethink what you believe - whether you change or not - then it was worth the time it took to write.
We all have varying level of beliefs. I assume everyone wants to hunt within the legal limits of the law. With this, the each person must show someone they disagree with grace. If so, then we can all learn from the discussion.
Even a comment or statment you don't agree with, don't support, think is not getting to the point you believe is accurate can still provide the start of making you rethink what you see as right and/or wrong. If after reading it helps you rethink what you believe - whether you change or not - then it was worth the time it took to write.
guerowolf
New member
i have never felt like i quite fit here
i am very opinionated and quite often brusque in real life
but none of us should be discussing ethics here
i know of no CODE for coyote control
most (not all of us) are murdering coyotes for sport
and for control
we enjoy it...
in past discussions...i see a majority of us leaving coyotes to rot or to be eaten by other predators
these animals are impossible to eradicate
read your history
you guys need to bring yourselves off your high horses
i see no basis for ethical discussions here
as for...i am helping deer...ranchers...sheep...rabbits
bs all of it
i want to go out and kill some coyotes
and i hope the government trapper...the guide on blm lands... or my neighbor don't beat me to the stand so i can go with my friends and have a great time doing the deed
if you would like to discuss anthromorphism
forget it
that has been drug through other discussions
i have done some really unethical things while hunting (i am sure...and can even think of a few instances...not related to this topic)
i personally have not purposely watched as an animal suffered
but
i think none of us have any right to place ourselves on a level holier than anyone and their methods or there enjoyment
and yes i did pm barry (and have in the past) regarding this (and other issues) after all he is a moderator
do me a favor keep ethics out of it
here's my opinion
this entire thread is bs
(but being from texas i find bs amusing)
and i am having a ball reading how many of you extoll your virtuosity
this sport has nothing to do with conservation either
(again a feeble attempt to associate coyote killing with ethics)
if you think it does you are trying to explain away your sensitivity in an activity that is an attempt at annihilation (although a feeble one)
i don't need any excuses for coyote hunting/control
you guys should stop looking for one
i think you should continue this thread
i don't want the last word
i am having a real good time
***except police bashing that seems to always sneak into these discussions...and that is stupidity ***
guero
i am very opinionated and quite often brusque in real life
but none of us should be discussing ethics here
i know of no CODE for coyote control
most (not all of us) are murdering coyotes for sport
and for control
we enjoy it...
in past discussions...i see a majority of us leaving coyotes to rot or to be eaten by other predators
these animals are impossible to eradicate
read your history
you guys need to bring yourselves off your high horses
i see no basis for ethical discussions here
as for...i am helping deer...ranchers...sheep...rabbits
bs all of it
i want to go out and kill some coyotes
and i hope the government trapper...the guide on blm lands... or my neighbor don't beat me to the stand so i can go with my friends and have a great time doing the deed
if you would like to discuss anthromorphism
forget it
that has been drug through other discussions
i have done some really unethical things while hunting (i am sure...and can even think of a few instances...not related to this topic)
i personally have not purposely watched as an animal suffered
but
i think none of us have any right to place ourselves on a level holier than anyone and their methods or there enjoyment
and yes i did pm barry (and have in the past) regarding this (and other issues) after all he is a moderator
do me a favor keep ethics out of it
here's my opinion
this entire thread is bs
(but being from texas i find bs amusing)
and i am having a ball reading how many of you extoll your virtuosity
this sport has nothing to do with conservation either
(again a feeble attempt to associate coyote killing with ethics)
if you think it does you are trying to explain away your sensitivity in an activity that is an attempt at annihilation (although a feeble one)
i don't need any excuses for coyote hunting/control
you guys should stop looking for one
i think you should continue this thread
i don't want the last word
i am having a real good time
***except police bashing that seems to always sneak into these discussions...and that is stupidity ***
guero
HillbillyJames
New member
I've enjoyed reading this thread and I think discussions and a little self-regulation like this help keep outside regulation out. As for my opinion, which is just that, I think if you're going to hunt then you should try to avoid prolonging an animals death much possible. That's why we practice making good shots. Even if I'm shooting starlings or killing rats to feed snakes, I try to make it as quick as possible. I also would not hunt a deer or an elk with a glue trap, even if it was legal /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Jay Nistetter
New member
Randy,
OK maybe I was reaching a bit, but was trying to make apoint.
The point is that I take great offense in anyone trying to push their aggenda on me or anyone else.
It's no different than the anguish each of you feel everytime you read about this new change and spread the wealth. Raise your taxes but the ones doing the raising are guilty of not paying theirs.
Same thing goes for those playing the Unethical, Immoral cards I am seeing.
We're all in this together and if the way I fish isn't to your liking, so be it. That's fine and I accept it. I'm more into bow fishing anyway. Lately I've been involved in catch and release. Doesn't do the fish any good but makes me feel better about myself.
And all you people are wrong. It isn't about the killing. It's about getting out and seeing things most people never notice. I'm of the opinion that predator hunters see things in much more detail and greater appreciation than possibly any other form of hunting. It's because we sit and watch, move a short distance, sit and watch some more. Some of us even think while we sit. Certainly we have a better understanding of nature far exceeding those that never venture off the blacktop but are hellbent on prcaliming to the world that we are evil, unethical and immoral.
OK maybe I was reaching a bit, but was trying to make apoint.
The point is that I take great offense in anyone trying to push their aggenda on me or anyone else.
It's no different than the anguish each of you feel everytime you read about this new change and spread the wealth. Raise your taxes but the ones doing the raising are guilty of not paying theirs.
Same thing goes for those playing the Unethical, Immoral cards I am seeing.
We're all in this together and if the way I fish isn't to your liking, so be it. That's fine and I accept it. I'm more into bow fishing anyway. Lately I've been involved in catch and release. Doesn't do the fish any good but makes me feel better about myself.
And all you people are wrong. It isn't about the killing. It's about getting out and seeing things most people never notice. I'm of the opinion that predator hunters see things in much more detail and greater appreciation than possibly any other form of hunting. It's because we sit and watch, move a short distance, sit and watch some more. Some of us even think while we sit. Certainly we have a better understanding of nature far exceeding those that never venture off the blacktop but are hellbent on prcaliming to the world that we are evil, unethical and immoral.
Ethics are part of hunting. Humans unlike animals have the ability to reason and take responsibility for our actions. We have every mental and technological advantage in the world over animals. It is up to us to make the rules. If we are going to call ourselves sportsmen we have to have some kind of rules. There are hundreds of laws and regulations for hunters to abide by just to make things fair to the animals we pursue. I didn't write them redfrog so don't shoot the messenger.
We are all concerned about rights and privileges we just can't see eye to eye about the best way to help preserve them. We have the CAVE people.{citizen against virtually everything) that thinks any law that pertains to animals and the killing of them is a personal attack on there liberties. That is all fine and good but not realistic.
Then there are people like myself and others that try to find some middle ground that can help us all. Like I said before, it would be a great idea to ban graphic pictures of wet females, puppies and crippled coyotes. Most people that like to kill puppies and wet females have enough scruples not to post pictures of them on the Internet. It is probably not because they think what they did was wrong it is because they think that it is inappropriate.
The moderators have gotten together and decided the TOS, they want everybody to get along so they created this code of conduct for the greater good. If any of you remember the old "Shade Tree" days you will understand why this is needed. In the old days there were no moderators, no rules and totally out of control. In fact it was from a big blow up that this very sight and several others came about. Will C. saw the big picture and wanted to create a better environment for predator hunters of all stripes and Predator Masters was born and has grown ever sense. I think if Will were alive today he would be proud to know that the seed that he planted has grown to a sight of this size.
I don't like engaging in ethical debates and I don't like seeing one thread after another get locked and pulled into the back room with out any closure. What we are doing just isn't working. Year after year after year we fight the same fights and nothing comes of it other than hard feelings and animosity. I can't see how by asking people not to post offensive pictures is going to cause the world to come to an end. If some people are still trying to pretend that they just don't know what is ignorant and disrespectful just take a look in the back room and take an inventory. I think you will get the picture?
Hillbilly nailed it.
Quote:
I've enjoyed reading this thread and I think discussions and a little self-regulation like this help keep outside regulation out.
The discussions are good to some degree but they are corrosive and can easily be avoided. A small amount of internal regulation could absolutely do wonders.
Good hunting.
Q,
We are all concerned about rights and privileges we just can't see eye to eye about the best way to help preserve them. We have the CAVE people.{citizen against virtually everything) that thinks any law that pertains to animals and the killing of them is a personal attack on there liberties. That is all fine and good but not realistic.
Then there are people like myself and others that try to find some middle ground that can help us all. Like I said before, it would be a great idea to ban graphic pictures of wet females, puppies and crippled coyotes. Most people that like to kill puppies and wet females have enough scruples not to post pictures of them on the Internet. It is probably not because they think what they did was wrong it is because they think that it is inappropriate.
The moderators have gotten together and decided the TOS, they want everybody to get along so they created this code of conduct for the greater good. If any of you remember the old "Shade Tree" days you will understand why this is needed. In the old days there were no moderators, no rules and totally out of control. In fact it was from a big blow up that this very sight and several others came about. Will C. saw the big picture and wanted to create a better environment for predator hunters of all stripes and Predator Masters was born and has grown ever sense. I think if Will were alive today he would be proud to know that the seed that he planted has grown to a sight of this size.
I don't like engaging in ethical debates and I don't like seeing one thread after another get locked and pulled into the back room with out any closure. What we are doing just isn't working. Year after year after year we fight the same fights and nothing comes of it other than hard feelings and animosity. I can't see how by asking people not to post offensive pictures is going to cause the world to come to an end. If some people are still trying to pretend that they just don't know what is ignorant and disrespectful just take a look in the back room and take an inventory. I think you will get the picture?
Hillbilly nailed it.
Quote:
I've enjoyed reading this thread and I think discussions and a little self-regulation like this help keep outside regulation out.
The discussions are good to some degree but they are corrosive and can easily be avoided. A small amount of internal regulation could absolutely do wonders.
Good hunting.
Q,
Redfrog
Moderator
Q for the record I had no intention of shooting anyone, Just having a discussion and looking for some clarity. I agree with some of what you say and not so much on other stuff.
" If some people are still trying to pretend that they just don't know what is ignorant and disrespectful just take a look in the back room and take an inventory. I think you will get the picture? "
I have no idea what this means. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
And yes we do set rules for conduct here, but they do not dictate ethics. They are simply "laws" that are in place for some order. I think you may have said something may be a law and still not be ethical.
Society needs laws for its day to day orderly function.
It doesn't take much of a look around to see that ethics vary a great deal and yet society continues.
TA17Rem. Where's the rest of it found?
I've been a hunter ed instructor since 1975, so I know my ethics may not apply to the actions of others.
" If some people are still trying to pretend that they just don't know what is ignorant and disrespectful just take a look in the back room and take an inventory. I think you will get the picture? "
I have no idea what this means. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
And yes we do set rules for conduct here, but they do not dictate ethics. They are simply "laws" that are in place for some order. I think you may have said something may be a law and still not be ethical.
Society needs laws for its day to day orderly function.
It doesn't take much of a look around to see that ethics vary a great deal and yet society continues.
TA17Rem. Where's the rest of it found?
I've been a hunter ed instructor since 1975, so I know my ethics may not apply to the actions of others.
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HighPlainsDrifter
New member
Quote:
Quote:
Where do i find this "code of ethics" that i should engrain into my kids and grandkids?
Some of it can be found in the handbook at a hunters gun and safety class, i have an extra copy if you want one>>
Outstanding /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif. How about State Statute Books, Hunting and Fishing Regulations, Municipal Ordinances, your Employee Handbook, the Predator Masters TOS. The list goes on and on. Show me a Law, Rule or Regulation that wasn't born from the ethics of a person or group of people. I would be the last person to tell you that you need to agree with every law or rule in the books, but it would be in your best interest to abide by it. Q is not talking about anything that hasnt been done for eons in time. Since the dawn of time, we as humans have been imposing our ethics on others. Really, when you look at it, majority usually rules. Either that or whomever is in charge. Its as much a human trait as any other. Its all around you. Everything we do or dont do had its birth in ethics. A big portion of it is taught to us by parents, teachers and role models when we are young. Another huge chunk are rules and regulations, laws and codes. The rest is what you believe and what is in your heart. Do ethics vary? Sure they do. It would be a pretty boring world if we were all the same. There is common ground though. Sometimes that common ground is not easy to obtain. Discussions like the one we are having can be very helpful. I am never too old to learn and I honestly believe that we reap what we sow.
Quote:
Where do i find this "code of ethics" that i should engrain into my kids and grandkids?
Some of it can be found in the handbook at a hunters gun and safety class, i have an extra copy if you want one>>
Outstanding /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif. How about State Statute Books, Hunting and Fishing Regulations, Municipal Ordinances, your Employee Handbook, the Predator Masters TOS. The list goes on and on. Show me a Law, Rule or Regulation that wasn't born from the ethics of a person or group of people. I would be the last person to tell you that you need to agree with every law or rule in the books, but it would be in your best interest to abide by it. Q is not talking about anything that hasnt been done for eons in time. Since the dawn of time, we as humans have been imposing our ethics on others. Really, when you look at it, majority usually rules. Either that or whomever is in charge. Its as much a human trait as any other. Its all around you. Everything we do or dont do had its birth in ethics. A big portion of it is taught to us by parents, teachers and role models when we are young. Another huge chunk are rules and regulations, laws and codes. The rest is what you believe and what is in your heart. Do ethics vary? Sure they do. It would be a pretty boring world if we were all the same. There is common ground though. Sometimes that common ground is not easy to obtain. Discussions like the one we are having can be very helpful. I am never too old to learn and I honestly believe that we reap what we sow.
Redfrog
Moderator
If laws and ethics are the same thing, then all we have to do is obey the laws.
If they are not the same, then where is this code of ethics that we are all supposed to abide by.
Who decides what all of us should do? Do you decide what is ethical for me? And if so what qualifies you to do that?
If they are not the same, then where is this code of ethics that we are all supposed to abide by.
Who decides what all of us should do? Do you decide what is ethical for me? And if so what qualifies you to do that?
Fantastic post HPD, I agree with all of it. Redfrog, as you said the laws are in place for some order. What topic creates more "disorder" than any other? They stem from pictures that are considered distasteful and disrespectful. We all know what kinds of pictures that everyone accepts and we know what kind of pictures are destructive. We are a perfect case in point. There is no reason why you and I shouldn't get along. It is the nature of this topic why we don't. I have regretfully said a lot of really bad things in the past out of frustration but it is in the past. All we can do now is look forward and try to make this a better place to be.
I guess I don't know where you are going with your last comment redfrog? My ethics are my own and yours are yours. The beauty of it is that we can keep all of our own ethics. We just need to try to be a little more self aware about what we post. The vast majority of hunters here on pm are great about posting pictures. They are courteous and understand that it shows a lot of class to give the animals they shoot a little dignity in death. They position the animals respectively and keep them clean. That, to answer your question is what I think is the unwritten code of ethics here on PM.
These same guys are not going to be the ones calling names and cussing either. Far and away the majority of guys here are good guys and would never cause a problem because of their personal ethics. If everyone were like this there would be no use for a TOS agreement. As we all know it is not the case. A small minority of people causes the majority of the problems. That is really the way it is in every aspect of life.
That is why we have so many gun laws. It is because a very small minority of people abuses the privilege. Because of that, law-abiding citizens pay for their crimes. No one hates gun crime more than an honest gun owner because we know that we are the ones that are going to suffer for their actions.
Getting back to the point, this is what is what I am afraid of here. If we have a small minority that posts pictures that the majority thinks could be harmful to our image we should recognize and address the problem. And it is a problem. I have seen it boil over for about the last 7 years now and we are no closer to figuring it out then we were back then.
I think by not allowing some of these pictures on PM we would avoid a LOT of hard feelings. In a nutshell that is all I am really saying. Regardless where are personal ethics are, our first priority should be for the betterment of the sport. If it is in our power to clean it up and eliminate some infighting by clamping down a little bit on some photos I am all for it.
Good hunting.
Q,
I guess I don't know where you are going with your last comment redfrog? My ethics are my own and yours are yours. The beauty of it is that we can keep all of our own ethics. We just need to try to be a little more self aware about what we post. The vast majority of hunters here on pm are great about posting pictures. They are courteous and understand that it shows a lot of class to give the animals they shoot a little dignity in death. They position the animals respectively and keep them clean. That, to answer your question is what I think is the unwritten code of ethics here on PM.
These same guys are not going to be the ones calling names and cussing either. Far and away the majority of guys here are good guys and would never cause a problem because of their personal ethics. If everyone were like this there would be no use for a TOS agreement. As we all know it is not the case. A small minority of people causes the majority of the problems. That is really the way it is in every aspect of life.
That is why we have so many gun laws. It is because a very small minority of people abuses the privilege. Because of that, law-abiding citizens pay for their crimes. No one hates gun crime more than an honest gun owner because we know that we are the ones that are going to suffer for their actions.
Getting back to the point, this is what is what I am afraid of here. If we have a small minority that posts pictures that the majority thinks could be harmful to our image we should recognize and address the problem. And it is a problem. I have seen it boil over for about the last 7 years now and we are no closer to figuring it out then we were back then.
I think by not allowing some of these pictures on PM we would avoid a LOT of hard feelings. In a nutshell that is all I am really saying. Regardless where are personal ethics are, our first priority should be for the betterment of the sport. If it is in our power to clean it up and eliminate some infighting by clamping down a little bit on some photos I am all for it.
Good hunting.
Q,
HighPlainsDrifter
New member
Quote:
If laws and ethics are the same thing, then all we have to do is obey the laws.
If they are not the same, then where is this code of ethics that we are all supposed to abide by.
Who decides what all of us should do? Do you decide what is ethical for me? And if so what qualifies you to do that?
You over simplify by asking if Laws and Ethics are the same thing. Conversly they are not different either. Its not that simple. Ethics are a major ingredient in laws, rules and regulations. There is no debate there. Its a fact. But ethics also applies in areas that are not as stringent as laws, rules and regulations. Common practices and history would be good examples.
Who decides what all of us should do? I am a bit surprised you ask that Redfrog. In some cases, you do. Do you not? In alot of cases the majority decides what is right and what is wrong. Some place in the history of mankind, the majority decided that it was not right to take another human life without very specific justifications. Hard to argue that decision was based on ethics. Then a law was created to hold those accountable that did not abide. A drastic example no doubt but valid non the less. We have proven, as a species, that we can adapt to change. Ethics, and the way people view things is something that is constantly changing and evolving. There are differences in cultures. There are differences in regions. There are differences in the way we are raised or by whom we are raised. Nobody here is asking to decide what is ethical for anyone else even though in some cases we all do exactly that. As moderators, parents, teachers, polititions, police officers, law makers, judges and the list goes on. We are asking for the right to express how we feel about something that some of us feel is damaging to our sport in one way or another. It is very likely that Barry did not violate any of his own personal code of ethics by what he did. We have clearly established that. Yet he did offend the code of ethics of some of his fellow sportsman. There in lies the problem. If the posting of a picture causes a fellow hunter to stumble then imagine what it does to a person who is undecided on the whole guns and hunting issue. I think that answers your question about what qualifies me or anyone else to do so. At least in respect to us expressing our feelings in regards to the issue.
If laws and ethics are the same thing, then all we have to do is obey the laws.
If they are not the same, then where is this code of ethics that we are all supposed to abide by.
Who decides what all of us should do? Do you decide what is ethical for me? And if so what qualifies you to do that?
You over simplify by asking if Laws and Ethics are the same thing. Conversly they are not different either. Its not that simple. Ethics are a major ingredient in laws, rules and regulations. There is no debate there. Its a fact. But ethics also applies in areas that are not as stringent as laws, rules and regulations. Common practices and history would be good examples.
Who decides what all of us should do? I am a bit surprised you ask that Redfrog. In some cases, you do. Do you not? In alot of cases the majority decides what is right and what is wrong. Some place in the history of mankind, the majority decided that it was not right to take another human life without very specific justifications. Hard to argue that decision was based on ethics. Then a law was created to hold those accountable that did not abide. A drastic example no doubt but valid non the less. We have proven, as a species, that we can adapt to change. Ethics, and the way people view things is something that is constantly changing and evolving. There are differences in cultures. There are differences in regions. There are differences in the way we are raised or by whom we are raised. Nobody here is asking to decide what is ethical for anyone else even though in some cases we all do exactly that. As moderators, parents, teachers, polititions, police officers, law makers, judges and the list goes on. We are asking for the right to express how we feel about something that some of us feel is damaging to our sport in one way or another. It is very likely that Barry did not violate any of his own personal code of ethics by what he did. We have clearly established that. Yet he did offend the code of ethics of some of his fellow sportsman. There in lies the problem. If the posting of a picture causes a fellow hunter to stumble then imagine what it does to a person who is undecided on the whole guns and hunting issue. I think that answers your question about what qualifies me or anyone else to do so. At least in respect to us expressing our feelings in regards to the issue.
4949shooter
New member
Quote:
4949shooter
Sorry to come across as condescending in your eyes. If you want to be Top behavior cop and decide we should all believe as you, be my guest. It's good to be King. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
edit: The smiley face didn't come across. I was attempting humor if it wasn't apparent.
I can appreciate the humor, Jay. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
EDITED in light of above posts made by Q-Wagoner and High Plains Drifter.
4949shooter
Sorry to come across as condescending in your eyes. If you want to be Top behavior cop and decide we should all believe as you, be my guest. It's good to be King. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
edit: The smiley face didn't come across. I was attempting humor if it wasn't apparent.
I can appreciate the humor, Jay. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
EDITED in light of above posts made by Q-Wagoner and High Plains Drifter.
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4949shooter
New member
Quote:
Quote:
He is trying to make his point in a condescending manner. This doesn't add to our discussion, it takes away from it.
He ain't condescending, he's right, IMHO.
"Condescending" would be pushing one's own self justified morals on another...
Humans can't go around picking & choosing which animals are OK to kill and what they is consider "cruel".
There are those who'd consider killing a sewer rat to be FINE, but killing a baby lamb for Easter dinner to be cruel. Says who? The 86%??? Phooooey!!! I've slaughtered plenty of baby lambs with nothing more than a frim grip and a sharp blade. Cruel? Nope. And I feel I'm a more level headed and humble person for doing so. Makes one appreciate much that is so often taken for granted...
Some would find absolutely nothing wrong with putting out glue traps for a rat, but would consider it cruel to deal with a feral cats in the same fashion? WHY???
This is the cruz of the issue
Who are WE to "pick and choose" which animals are OK to kill and which aren't?
Can't anyone see how silly and hypocritical is?
Who are we to deem an action toward one particular animal as "cruel" but to a different animal "morally justified"???
Has Walt Disney forever poisoned the human race?
Some people's moral compasses are so far off that they can't help but be raging hypocrites...
EDITED in light of above posts made by Q-Wagoner and High Plains Drifter.
Quote:
He is trying to make his point in a condescending manner. This doesn't add to our discussion, it takes away from it.
He ain't condescending, he's right, IMHO.
"Condescending" would be pushing one's own self justified morals on another...
Humans can't go around picking & choosing which animals are OK to kill and what they is consider "cruel".
There are those who'd consider killing a sewer rat to be FINE, but killing a baby lamb for Easter dinner to be cruel. Says who? The 86%??? Phooooey!!! I've slaughtered plenty of baby lambs with nothing more than a frim grip and a sharp blade. Cruel? Nope. And I feel I'm a more level headed and humble person for doing so. Makes one appreciate much that is so often taken for granted...
Some would find absolutely nothing wrong with putting out glue traps for a rat, but would consider it cruel to deal with a feral cats in the same fashion? WHY???
This is the cruz of the issue
Who are WE to "pick and choose" which animals are OK to kill and which aren't?
Can't anyone see how silly and hypocritical is?
Who are we to deem an action toward one particular animal as "cruel" but to a different animal "morally justified"???
Has Walt Disney forever poisoned the human race?
Some people's moral compasses are so far off that they can't help but be raging hypocrites...
EDITED in light of above posts made by Q-Wagoner and High Plains Drifter.
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