Az game and fish is now offering 2 day free hunting license for anyone who is with a bonafied az license holder. The main idea is to get new people into the sport of hunting by offering a two day pass. They call it the New Apprentice Hunting license. What this means is that if you can get someone from Az to hunt with, you can hunt on this Apprentice license for two days free. Sorry, I have other obligations and you probably won't agree to call me Obione anyway. Here is a cut and paste from an email they sent to me:

New Apprentice Hunting License offers a “test drive” at no cost


Dec. 30, 2008

License encourages sportsmen to mentor others, assist hunter recruitment effort in Arizona

PHOENIX — Effective Jan. 1, the Arizona Game and Fish Department is offering a new “Apprentice Hunting License,” at no charge, to encourage existing hunters to become mentors and introduce a friend, neighbor, relative, or co-worker to the traditions and importance of hunting.

The Apprentice License allows an already licensed hunter to take a beginner on an actual hunt—without the beginner having to buy a hunting license. The Apprentice License is free for residents and nonresidents and is valid for two consecutive days for the take of small game, fur-bearing, predatory and nongame mammals, nongame birds, and upland game birds. (To take migratory birds or waterfowl, the appropriate stamps are required at normal costs). The license is not valid for the take of big game.

Many people express an interest in hunting but are deterred either because of not knowing how to get started or the initial expense. The Apprentice Hunting License removes the initial cost barrier of having to buy a license (which costs between $26.50 and $151.25, depending on age and residency), so that newcomers can “try before they buy.”

“This will allow a seasoned hunter to take someone new under their wing and teach them the basics about hunting, firearm safety, and wildlife conservation without cost prohibitive burdens,” said Chairman Bill McLean of the Arizona Game and Fish Commission. “There are many states with this type of license, and it has become a model for removing barriers in the national effort to increase hunter participation.”

The Apprentice Hunting License is only available at Arizona Game and Fish Department offices. The mentor must be at least 18 years old and possess a valid hunting license and is limited to two Apprentice Hunting Licenses per calendar year. The license must be made out to the name of the apprentice, with the mentor’s name associated with the license. The apprentice can only receive one license per calendar year. The mentor is required to be with the apprentice at all times while in the field, providing instruction and supervision on safe and ethical hunting.

“This is a great opportunity to help preserve and expand Arizona’s hunting heritage and wildlife management through the next generation,” said Craig McMullen, Hunter Heritage Work Group team leader for the Arizona Game and Fish Department. “Not only will this allow someone new to experience the thrill of the hunt, this also allows mentors to teach others about wildlife conservation and the important role that hunters, as conservationists play, in the management of all wildlife.”

“Outside of getting new hunters in the field, safety is our number one concern. Hunting in Arizona is very safe, and we have one of the lowest accident rates in the United States,” said Dave Williams, hunter education coordinator of the Arizona Game and Fish Department. “A good mentor will instill the basics of wearing hunter orange and how to safely handle a firearm through T.A.B.+1: Treat every firearm as if it were loaded; Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction; Be sure of your target and beyond; and keep your finger outside of the trigger guard until you are ready to shoot. Nearly every hunting-related accident can be avoided by following these simple principles”

However, with the added flexibility comes added responsibility. Mentors need to set a good example to these impressionable new comers. Mentors should consider the following guidelines:

Focus on the experience not the harvest
Obey all laws
Keep your apprentices physical limits in mind
Be informative
Teach field dressing and cooking
Take pictures
Plan a follow-up outing
Seasoned hunters can start the New Year giving. By introducing someone new to hunting, you are giving the gift of the American hunting heritage. Quail season runs until Feb. 8, 2009, cottontail rabbit season runs all year long and the both make excellent quarry (as well as, great table fare) for new hunters. A 2009 hunting license is required beginning Jan. 1, 2009.

Visit the Arizona Game and Fish Department self-paced online hunter education course to learn more about hunting safely, hunting ethically, the history of hunting, wildlife management success stories, firearm safety, and more at: www.hunter-ed.com/az.

Media note: The recruitment and retention of hunters, anglers, trappers, and shooters is important to continue the successful management of Arizona’s wildlife. Funding for the management and conservation of game animals is funded by dollars generated by the sale of licenses, hunt tags and matching funds from federal excise taxes hunters pay on guns, ammunition, and related equipment – not through the state’s general fund. However, all citizens and guests of Arizona enjoy driving on a country road and enjoy roaming elk herds, antelope on the range or ducks in flight. Did you know regulated hunting has never resulted in the extinction of a species? On the contrary, most game species populations are more stable now then when there were no hunting regulations.

This is a good program.

For it opens the area around the San CArlos to have the out of staters hunt the ranches that are needing help getting rid of the predators that they have.

I will be more than willing to help anyone that I can on the Globe Hunt.

I have taken three Army guy's here out calling and they loved it.

They are now enrolled in the hunter saftey course and waiting for it to start next month then they can get thier lisence for the state.

So all that are coming you are now not restricted to just the REz so think about getting your two day permit also.

It says "beginner". It appears the intent is to catert to children, women, or "beginners". Would a "veteran" have to lie and say they are a beginner, to get the free license?

Onefoot, I highly reccommend the hunter safety course but your three Army guys, if they have been stationed in Arizona for 30 days can now get their Arizona hunting license and or apply for tags as a resident.

Bill

Well said Mr.Knight!

I've hunted with Yellowhammer... according to Crapshoot he could possibly qualify as a beginner! I won't tell you how bad Lance said I was but, I wouldn't even qualify for "newbie"! They made me carry the caller and walk out to hang it in the bushes while they sat and watched! LOL
(I'd still hunt with you any day Sean! Sure was fun!)I hope Lance shows up this year so we can do it again!

Sounds like a good program if it gets a little traction maybe it will do some good! We have lots of skilled hunters here that would make excellent mentors, most already are!

Nikonut

Well Guy's

This can all be interpited as you have stated.

One To hunt any Large game you have to have a hunter Saftey course card if you were born after a certian date.

To hunt on any Army res you have to have the hunter saftey course card no matter how old you are. So the three guy's are going through the course and it is a good idea for all hunters to take it again to keep up with the new reg's within the states.

Now we have had childern come out on the hunt and they sure did want to hunt but could not due to this program was not in effect back then.

As for the older folks that are OLD hunters then the gray area comes into effect and yes they might not qualify for the permits.

So to be fair I feel it shold be up to the out of staters that are new to Arizona Desert Hunting to decide if they want to persue getting the permits. The link to the Arizona Game and Fish is in this board and they can contact them and ask if they qualify or not.

This just my two cents worth.

I haven't seen the application form yet, so I'm not sure if you have to sign an affidavit. I really doubt they are going to require that. The idea is to bring in new hunters, and you will be a new beginning hunter in Arizona. After all, you will need to learn about our trespassing laws, which beat the heck out of most states because the responsibility to post is on the land owner. You will also need to learn that the cities here have been grabbing land like crazy and it is a feloney to shoot in a city limits. You will also need to learn about our game laws which are different than the Rez. I also believe that it is a marketing tool too. If they can get you into hunting Arizona, they might be able to sell you one of their overpriced nonresident hunting licenses. I mean check out Az Game and Fish prices, they are thru the roof.

Mr. Knight, I cannot think of any opportunities that I've had in the past where I could have used this except with my grandson a few times several years ago. He is now old enough to put in for a big game tag so I buy him a license anyway. If I had some nieces or nephews to take out, that would be different. I would like to say you have some great ethics. It would not bother me to take an experienced hunter out under this plan for several reasons.

First, Az Game and Fish is now a big government bureauarcy that exist for itself and not for the sportsmen and wild game animals that they should represent. They don't even care about the wildlife in this state. Instead they care more about being politically correct. About 10 years ago they attempted to ban all contest hunts in Arizona. With lots of pressure from the antis, they succumbed and the Game and Fish Commission put forth a majority vote to ban all contest hunts in Arizona. The only thing that saved our A$$ is the Governor Regulatory Review Commmitte(GRRC). GRRC's job is to review the legality of all commission rules before being put into effect. Well Game and Fish didn't do a proper economic impact analysis, and they were sent back to get it right. Luckily, they didn't get it right the second time and it died. We can still have contest hunts. I belong to Phoenix Varmint Callers Inc, and we fought this thing the whole way thru the processes because PVCI has monthly club hunts where a trophy is given to the winners. This activity would have been illegal if it passed. If this ruling had passed, you could have your hunt on the rez but you couldn't leave the San Carlos to hunt.

The license fees in Az have always been high but they became real high for nonresidents because of a lawsuit brought against the state by US Outfitters. USO filed the suit because only a small percentage(I recall the percentage being 20%) of big game tags were allowed to go to nonresidents. Az lost the lawsuit because the courts ruled that it was discriminatory so the Game and Fish did three things. It dropped the limitation of tags that could be issued to nonresidents. They increased the fees dramatically for both licenses and big game tags for nonresidents. Third, they now require that you purchase a 151.25 nonresident license just to put in for a big game draw. This 151.25 dollars basically turns into a donation because the likelyhood of being drawn for a good big game hunt is real low. I had a friend from commyfornia that use to put in with me. He makes good money, but he doesn't want to waste it under these new rules. USO basically set it up so those that are real rich will still put in, and the average working family man making say 70,000/year won't. The rich are more likely to hire USO so they won.

If you ever get a chance to go by Az Game and Fish's new building, you will get an unpleasant surprise. It is a huge modern large building that was built with our license money. The first time I drove by it, it was very early in the morning before the sun was up, and my first thought was who in the heck is building a shopping mall way out here.

Because I've know the history of Az Game and Fish, I have no problem using this law to help out a nonresident even if he is an experienced hunter. I would prefer to take a newby out and help give them a great start, but I just don't know of any.

I just happen to have one of my rental homes going vacant next week so I have to commit all of my free time to getting it ready for another tennant. This usually ties me up for a couple of months.

I didn't mean to insinuate that I or anyone else would lie in order to take advantage of the program. I had already figured to buy the non-resident 3 day license for $61.25. However, I thought that purpose of this post was to let non-residents coming to the hunt know they could get 2 days free.

My point was I wouldn't want to do that, if the intent was actually "beginners" and not to allow non-residents a free opportunity to sample the hunting.

For instance, I didn't hunt off the rez the last 2 years, because it was cheaper to hunt on the rez, plus I could hunt lion for $10/day plus the tag. Couldn't hunt a lion that cheap off the rez.

I doubt very many of the people attending the hunt could truely be called "beginners" when it comes to hunting, but a few might.

Yellowhammer, I won't hunt the rez just because it is the rez. They have there own set of rules that I just don't like.

I was just throwing this out there so others could possibly take advantage of it, and I have no sympathy for AZ G&F so I have no problem with anyone taking advantage of this either. I guess I'm getting cranky and cynical in my ole age. Maybe that is why I usually hunt alone. In actuality I shoot and hunt alone a lot because I'm self employed and I just take off at the drop of a hat when time is available. It is hard to get someone to go with you with 12 hours of notice so I don't even usually try.

What rez rules don't you like?

Onefoot,
This isn’t quite accurate: “One To hunt any Large game you have to have a hunter Saftey course card if you were born after a certain date.”

Hunter Safety certificates are required only for hunters 10 to 13 years old to apply for and hunt big game. Children under 14 years old can hunt without a license except big game when accompanied by a licensed hunter at least 18 years old.
When the child reaches 14 years old or older the certificate is not required. A hunting license is required to hunt including predators. For big game a permit and tag are also required.

As for the Hunter Apprentice License I agree with am a Knight.

Yellowhammer:
The San Carlos hunting regulations for the most part parallel the Arizona Game & Fish Department regulations with a few exceptions. Shot gun capacity; no more than 3 for the reservation, no more than 5 for Arizona. The minimum distance to legally discharge a firearm of an occupied structure, 1 mile (in certain areas that are not defined) on the reservation, ¼ mile for Arizona. One of the tribal council members telling the attendees that a shotgun shooting shot is a center fire rifle and legal for lions. Shotguns are not rifles.

Being a 3rd generation native, I have had contact with various Indians over my life. I have several prejudices against the Indians, especially the Apaches.

The San Carlos was going to sponsor a calling contest and invited APC and PVCI to take part. I don't know of anyone that went because at the last minute they opened up a southern area that had been historically closed to the Indian teams.

The Rules at that time(correct me if I'm wrong):
No loaded guns in the truck. Not even in the magazine. I hunt with ARs and I leave my guns loaded which is legal on state lands.

The real killer rule: hunter orange must be worn.


If I was going to hunt a reservation, I would prefer to deal with the Navajos from what I've experienced.

Quote:

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The real killer rule: hunter orange must be worn.

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That is not what we have been told by the Wildlife Dept. the last 2 years.

Hunter orange is only required during the big game season (or so they told us).

It might be ethical to learn another style of hunting in a diffent place which does seem to make you a FNG again. I used to hunt two legged predators all around Binh Thuan Province, RVN, and though no license was required of me, I know that kind of hunting does not translate immediately to coyote shooting. Similar, not the same.

Rarely will a coyote shoot back at you. It might be that a person getting into an entirely diffent type hunting would be well within his Rights to use this type license to have his chance with mentorship in a new type hunting. Bet it would have 'legs' in Court too!

Sam H. Asbury, III
CLEET #08 PIA 2782

You could definatley not be experienced in hunting the desert if you are coming from somewhere farther east.

I'll stick to my plan and get a 3 day AZ, and hunt a few days on the rez after that.

I have a camper with side windows that permit accessing the guns from the side. I also have a carpet kit that I built with loaded guns in mind. The guns lay down on top of the carpet kit pointing rearward. If a rifle was to go off, the highly fragible bullet would have to pass thru an ice chest, 3/8" layer of lexan/polycarbonate and the tail gate. I only leave the guns loaded while in remote areas.

I've been with other hunters that keep a rifle in the cab with them. Usually the rifle is keep muzzle down. If an AD happened it might damage the tranny, front tire, or exhaust system. Worst case would be a recochiet off the frame might hurt someone.

I hunt with AR's and I enjoy racking them in the morning and leaving them that way. If I was to hunt the rez, I would only use a bolt gun.

Mr Knight: I fail to see how I'm contradicting myself because I believe it is ok to bend the rules a little; thus, cheating an oversized ineffecient self serving bureauarcy out of a little money that will just waste the money anyway. I believe I'm am responding like a true American tax payer that believes every single one of us must do everything in our power the help stop this waste. It is our American duty to keep every dime we can in our pockets and out of the huge goverment money eating machines like Az Game and Fish.

Check out this link in the church and go to the very end where I'm the last poster for my take on taxes.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubb...page=1#53028483

Aznative, I don't agree that the AZ Game and Fish (AGFD) is a money eating machine. They are a a self funded agency that does not use one penny of the State's general tax fund. They get their revenue from sportsmen like us. It is better to oppose the AZ legislature from raiding our money given to AGFD to balance the state budget.

The purpose of the Apprentice License is to recruit new hunters to help continue the future of hunting. If a mentor is not doing that, they shouldn't sponsor the apprentice.

Quote:

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It is better to oppose the AZ legislature from raiding our money given to AGFD to balance the state budget.

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AZ isn't the only place that happens. It happens here too. They don't necessarily raid it, they just freeze so they can't spend it to make it look like it is balanced.

I spent too many years working for a large school district to ever believe anything as big as ASGF to be any but a sefl serving money wasting machine. Because of the lawsuit USO brought on, the rules have changed to really help the rich. Well I say let the rich pay those excess nonresident fees. If my ole friend for commyfornia wants to go calling for two days for free, we will be getting a two day free pass. I don't know why anyone of you would have a problem with using this free pass. If you don't want to use it, it is your money and you can do with it what you want. We are all entitled to our opinions. If you have read all of my post, you would also see that I have several issues with G&F.

I do agree that we must stop a bigger money hungry machine from raiding G&F funds: the state legislature.

I'm just getting to old and cynical to have the high ideals that some of you have. I'm not knocking you for it. I just don't agree with it. I've see so much happen that I'm seriously thinking about not reading or watching the news because it ticks me off so much. This is especially true when I see barney faq or al frankenstien on the news.

After US Outfitters won the law suit with AGFD to remove the limit on big game tags issued to nonresidents, it set a precedence for law suits to occur in other state wildlife agencies for doing the same thing. One of the states (Wyoming?) had their law suit settled in Federal Court and the ruling was that limiting nonresident hunters is NOT discriminatory. AGFD was then able to piggy back on that case law with the other states to put the nonresident cap in place again. So the law suit USO brought on did not change anything because it got reversed by the Federal Courts.

I see AGFD being a money producer for AZ, not a money waster. Wildlife related recreation generates a lot of revenue for the economy. When your friend from Commyfornia comes to AZ for a couple days to whack yotes, he spends money on gas, groceries, lodging, equipment, etc. If hunting is banned because there are not enough new hunters to support the future of hunting, it is going affect our economy and the resource. Sportsmen pay for the conservation of wildlife, not the tax payers who don't buy a license.

Do what you want with your friend. I just hope that veteran hunters from around the United States coming to AZ for a banquet will help promote the future of hunting by introducing new people and not take advantage of getting an Apprentice License for themselves.

Mr Knight:

It is obvious you have followed this issue a whole lot more than I. I dropped the whole thing after we lost the USo case. Thanks for the extra info. After reading the info you supplied, I checked with Az Game and Fish hoping that my friend could again put in for a nonresident elk tag without buying the licnese. That hasn't changed unfortuanately. That rule came about right after G&F losing the USO case and still hasn't changed despite the fact that they can again have caps. I checked with G&F and found out that the legislature got involved and AZ now has a 10% cap on nonresident big game draws.

"So the law suit USO brought on did not change anything because it got reversed by the Federal Courts." True but not true. It is true that it got overturned but the USO lawsuit is what started the madatory hunting license purchase to put in for the AZ draw. The license money is still not refunded so the 151 bucks for a nonresident license is still a annual mandatory expenditure if you want to put in for some very hard to get species like big horn sheep. With only a few states even having big horn sheep, I'm sure AZ gets a whole lot of money from rich out of state hunters at a rate of 151 bucks per head just to be able to put in for Az's big game draw.

"I see AGFD being a money producer for AZ, not a money waster." This is one issue we will have to agree to disagree.

Unfortunately, I will never again have any respect for Game and Fish after they ruled in favor of the Anti's concerning contest hunts. Doing that has really showed to me how AZ Game and Fish can go the politically correct direction just because of a few fringe elements.

I will admit that I don't have the same standards some of you think one should maintain, but when I see that I'm being regulated by an agency that I have very little respect for, I have no problem with using a free two day pass for an out of state friend. I do my best to obey the laws, just don't expect me to go the extra mile for G&F. I'm not talking bad about the employees, but of the agency as a whole. It is very hard to work within a government agency. You spend more time working the system to get what you need to do your job than you spend doing your job. Been there done that and never again. I do agree with you that we do need to get other young people involved in hunting. If I ever had the opportunity, I would use such a pass to help get someone into hunting. I just don't know of anyone anymore. Unfortunately the video games have become so realistic and sophisticated that kids don't even want to go outside anymore. A friend of my son asked me if I wanted to buy some bikes after I got his wireless network setup with the xbox. He said his kids will never go outside again.

Here is a cut and paste from my response from G&F:

"Mr.XXXXXX

Thank you for contacting the Arizona Game and Fish Department with your questions. All hunters applying for big game hunts must purchase a license. It can be purchased before submitting an application or through the application process using a hunt application form. The price of the license is not refundable, whether or not a hunter is drawn for a hunt.

The 9th Circuit Cout of Appeals rules that states putting a cap on the percent of non-residents for big game (or small game in some states for waterfowl) is not a violation of the Commerce Clause and so states can cap non-resident tags.

The Arizona Game and Fish Commission through the Rule Making Process put a cap on non-residents for big game; making the cap in rule allowed the Commisison to vary the percent of the cap. However, the Arizona State legislature got involved and actually passed a law that restricts non-residents to a 10% cap (our Commission opposed this legislation). The Commission opposed an across the board cap because for some undersubscribed hunts there is no need for a cap. As an example for some species and some hunts the 10% cap means non-residents can't draw a tag through the regular draw for hunts that then end up with left-over tags. Non-residents then have to apply again to get one of the left-over tags (there is no cap on left-over tags).

So yes there is a cap and it is now in statute. ARS Title 17-332 A (the last sentence)...."The commission shall limit the number of big game permits issued to nonresidents in a random drawing to ten per cent or fewer of the total hunt permits, but in extraordinary circumstances, at a public meeting the commission may increase the number of permits issued to nonresidents in a random drawing if, on separate roll call votes, the members of the commission unanimously:

1. Support the finding of a specifically described extraordinary circumstance.

2. Adopt the increased number of nonresident permits for the hunt."

So far no member of the public has approached the Commission suggesting "extraordinary circumstances", so the 10% cap is place for all big game hunts that go through the draw. There are still some over-the-counter tags available for archery deer, general and archery elk (small areas), some bear and mountain lion tags that non-residents can purchase without being capped."



THEY GOT BACK TO ME REAL QUICK. That surprised me.

AZnative,

Thanks for clarifying that the cost of the hunting license is not refunded even if a person is not drawn for a big game tag. I did not realize AGFD was still doing that after the nonresident cap was put in place again. I can see AGFD keeping a few bucks for an application fee, but a person should have the option to purchase a license or have the license fee returned if not drawn. That's the way it used to be and I see your point.

I am uninformed about the hunting contest situation. I'll take your word for it. Looks like the outcome was OK, but not on purpose.

I think we exhausted the topic about the apprentice license. Thanks for your perspectives on it and good luck in the field.

Mr Knight, I don't know where you are located in Az; but if you ever get near 51st Ave and Olive(Dunlap) Ave in Glendale, stop in at Randall's firearms and ask for Gary. Gary was President of out club(PVCI) at the time the hunting contest issue was coming to a head, and he can tell you a whole lot about the underlying reasons behing the ban.

I believe the reason for the commission voting for the ban was because there was a voter referendum being put forth to require a 2/3 majority on any voter referendums that involved wildlife management shortly after the hunting contest issue arose. The logic the pro hunters tried to convey to supposrt this proposition is that this should be a requirement because we don't want emotion getting in the way of sound wildlife management. The commission was afraid that the anti's would use legal hunting contests against this pro hunter referendum when it was being put before the voters. The anti's did spend a lot of money and the proposition never passed. However, the contest hunting issue never came to surface during that battle. It is just like the ole saying"politics makes for strange bed fellows".

Unfortunately, Arizona is a hot bed of crazy voter propositions because all that is ever needed is a simple majority of the voters. This process can even be used to go after the State's constitution. Take the Ammunition Accountability Act as an example. This issue falls under as an act that would change Az's constitution. In order to pass the legislature it would require a 2/3rds majority to pass and the Gov's signature. To override a Govenors veto, it would require a 3/4ths super majority in both houses. It can be easily passed with a simple 51.1% vote as a referendum We need to get that changed. Constitutions are in place to protect the rights of minorities against a majority.

Just my .02

Well said!