I was given a nearly new Stevens 200 in 223 cal. I found out it has a 1 in 9 twist barrel. I am going to use it for coyotes and max range of my shooting will probably be under 300 yards. In your opinions are 40 grain bullets more accurate than the 55 grain. I remember reading something about the twists not being able to staballize the bullet but I don't remember if its the heavier one or not. Thanks
Stevens 200
- Thread starter SKYBOW
- Start date
natesatt
New member
I don't own a 223, but you should be able to stablize SOME bullets even heavier than 55gr with it. Remember, it all depends on the length of the bullet(how much of it touches the riflings), not the weight. I have a 22-250 w/ 1-12 twist and it will stabilize most 55 grainers well. It likes the 50-52gr bullets better though. If you want speed out of your 223 you'll have to stay around the 40gr bullets which is what a friend of mine does.
Bayou City Boy
New member
Quote:
I don't own a 223, but you should be able to stablize SOME bullets even heavier than 55gr with it. Remember, it all depends on the length of the bullet(how much of it touches the riflings), not the weight. I have a 22-250 w/ 1-12 twist and it will stabilize most 55 grainers well. It likes the 50-52gr bullets better though. If you want speed out of your 223 you'll have to stay around the 40gr bullets which is what a friend of mine does.
In all truthfulness, a required barrel twist rate depends on the length of the bullet...and not on how much of the bullet touches the rifling, nor the weight of the bullet.
If the amount of bullet touching the rifling was important, a long VLD bullet would not require a fast twist barrel as most VLD bullets have considerably less bearing surface than a typical hunting bullet in the same caliber.
-BCB
I don't own a 223, but you should be able to stablize SOME bullets even heavier than 55gr with it. Remember, it all depends on the length of the bullet(how much of it touches the riflings), not the weight. I have a 22-250 w/ 1-12 twist and it will stabilize most 55 grainers well. It likes the 50-52gr bullets better though. If you want speed out of your 223 you'll have to stay around the 40gr bullets which is what a friend of mine does.
In all truthfulness, a required barrel twist rate depends on the length of the bullet...and not on how much of the bullet touches the rifling, nor the weight of the bullet.
If the amount of bullet touching the rifling was important, a long VLD bullet would not require a fast twist barrel as most VLD bullets have considerably less bearing surface than a typical hunting bullet in the same caliber.
-BCB
DeathPenalty
New member
My Savage 12FV shoots Speer 52gr match BTHPs very, very well with 23gr of IMR 3031. I wouldn't imagine a 55 would do any worse.
CWeeks
New member
Magic load for the stevens is Winchester Brass, CCI mag 450 primers, 25.5 grains of H335 and the 55 grain vmax.
That round is so dang accurate. I shoot rockchucks out to 300 or with that load and it works real well for yotes. NEVER had a dog that I did not find with that load out of the Stevens .223 I have.
In the next couple of days I will try to post some pics of groups shot with this load, work blocked photobucket.
That round is so dang accurate. I shoot rockchucks out to 300 or with that load and it works real well for yotes. NEVER had a dog that I did not find with that load out of the Stevens .223 I have.
In the next couple of days I will try to post some pics of groups shot with this load, work blocked photobucket.
Quote:
A 1 in 9 barrel will shoot almost any .22 cal. bullet up to 70-80 grains. You probably don't need to worry about blowing up bullets on the way to the traget in the .223, because they don't travel fast enough.
Not exactly true. Mine will NOT shoot SPSX and like bullets because they will come apart in the barrel.
If you shoot a bullet in the 50-60gr range out of your rifle you will be very pleased with the results on coyotes. Try to stay away from the extremely thin skinned bullets like the SPSX and TNT...you may or may not be able to shoot them.
A 1 in 9 barrel will shoot almost any .22 cal. bullet up to 70-80 grains. You probably don't need to worry about blowing up bullets on the way to the traget in the .223, because they don't travel fast enough.
Not exactly true. Mine will NOT shoot SPSX and like bullets because they will come apart in the barrel.
If you shoot a bullet in the 50-60gr range out of your rifle you will be very pleased with the results on coyotes. Try to stay away from the extremely thin skinned bullets like the SPSX and TNT...you may or may not be able to shoot them.
RTLOF18918B
New member
My Stevens 200 .223 shoots subminute of squirrel at 200+ yards with 50 and 55 Nosler Ballistic Tips using w748, Benchmark and Re7 powders. And really tears up the yotes.
RTLOF(TONY) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
RTLOF(TONY) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
vmaster59
New member
Rifling is the helix-shaped pattern in the barrel of a gun or firearm, which imparts a spin to a projectile around its long axis. This spin serves to gyroscopically stabilize the projectile, improving its aerodynamic stability and accuracy.
Rifling is described by its twist rate, which indicates the distance the bullet must travel to complete one full revolution, such as "1 turn in 10 inches" (1:10 inches), or "1 turn in 30 cm" (1:30 cm). A shorter distance indicates a "faster" twist, meaning that for a given velocity the projectile will be rotating at a higher spin rate.
A combination of the weight, length and shape of a projectile determines the twist rate needed to stabilize it – barrels intended for short, large-diameter projectiles like spherical lead balls require a very low twist rate, such as 1 turn in 48 inches (122 cm). Barrels intended for long, small-diameter bullets, such as the ultra-low-drag, 80-grain 0.224 inch bullets (5.2 g, 5.56 mm), use twist rates of 1 turn in 8 inches (20 cm) or faster.
In some cases, rifling will have twist rates that increases down the length of the barrel, called a gain twist; a twist rate that decreases from breech to muzzle is undesirable, as it cannot reliably stabilize the bullet as it travels down the bore. Extremely long projectiles such as flechettes may require impractically high twist rates; these projectiles must be inherently stable, and are often fired from a smoothbore barrel.
Rifling is described by its twist rate, which indicates the distance the bullet must travel to complete one full revolution, such as "1 turn in 10 inches" (1:10 inches), or "1 turn in 30 cm" (1:30 cm). A shorter distance indicates a "faster" twist, meaning that for a given velocity the projectile will be rotating at a higher spin rate.
A combination of the weight, length and shape of a projectile determines the twist rate needed to stabilize it – barrels intended for short, large-diameter projectiles like spherical lead balls require a very low twist rate, such as 1 turn in 48 inches (122 cm). Barrels intended for long, small-diameter bullets, such as the ultra-low-drag, 80-grain 0.224 inch bullets (5.2 g, 5.56 mm), use twist rates of 1 turn in 8 inches (20 cm) or faster.
In some cases, rifling will have twist rates that increases down the length of the barrel, called a gain twist; a twist rate that decreases from breech to muzzle is undesirable, as it cannot reliably stabilize the bullet as it travels down the bore. Extremely long projectiles such as flechettes may require impractically high twist rates; these projectiles must be inherently stable, and are often fired from a smoothbore barrel.
canislatrans54
New member
I've not shot anything less than 45 gr. out of my .223 Stevens.
But, I noticed not discernable difference in performance (point of impact & 5-shot groups), between the 45gr HP's & the 55gr PSPs.
I only noticed a difference on the exits (or lack thereof) in the coyote. At distances less than 150 yds, the HPs did not exit (unless it was under 50 yds, then LOOK OUT! The PSPs at the same distances were thru/thru & tiny exits. Out around 200 yds, even the PSPs haven't been exiting.
And this year I've only had 2 "run-offs", & 6 "spinners". That's the least since I switched from using a .243 5 years ago.
But, I noticed not discernable difference in performance (point of impact & 5-shot groups), between the 45gr HP's & the 55gr PSPs.
I only noticed a difference on the exits (or lack thereof) in the coyote. At distances less than 150 yds, the HPs did not exit (unless it was under 50 yds, then LOOK OUT! The PSPs at the same distances were thru/thru & tiny exits. Out around 200 yds, even the PSPs haven't been exiting.
And this year I've only had 2 "run-offs", & 6 "spinners". That's the least since I switched from using a .243 5 years ago.
Bayou City Boy
New member
Quote:
Rifling is the helix-shaped pattern in the barrel of a gun or firearm, which imparts a spin to a projectile around its long axis. This spin serves to gyroscopically stabilize the projectile, improving its aerodynamic stability and accuracy.
Rifling is described by its twist rate, which indicates the distance the bullet must travel to complete one full revolution, such as "1 turn in 10 inches" (1:10 inches), or "1 turn in 30 cm" (1:30 cm). A shorter distance indicates a "faster" twist, meaning that for a given velocity the projectile will be rotating at a higher spin rate.
A combination of the weight, length and shape of a projectile determines the twist rate needed to stabilize it – barrels intended for short, large-diameter projectiles like spherical lead balls require a very low twist rate, such as 1 turn in 48 inches (122 cm). Barrels intended for long, small-diameter bullets, such as the ultra-low-drag, 80-grain 0.224 inch bullets (5.2 g, 5.56 mm), use twist rates of 1 turn in 8 inches (20 cm) or faster.
In some cases, rifling will have twist rates that increases down the length of the barrel, called a gain twist; a twist rate that decreases from breech to muzzle is undesirable, as it cannot reliably stabilize the bullet as it travels down the bore. Extremely long projectiles such as flechettes may require impractically high twist rates; these projectiles must be inherently stable, and are often fired from a smoothbore barrel.
OK....
First off...if you're going to quote someone or some place where data is written, you should include " " to indicate the thoughts and words are not your own. Instead they are information that you have "Googled" perhaps.
Your material failed to mention other variables such as altitude, barometric pressure, temperature that also "help" determine twist rate if you want to get into the physics of the issue. They are all important, but projectile length is the major one..
Many of the twist rate determination "tools" - including what you quoted - use the old Greenhill formula or a derivative of it to determine twist rate. The only problem with using it is that it was designed for artillery and is valid only to about 1800 FPS velocity partially due to the constant Greenhill used.
Here's the actual formula - Greenhill was an artillery officer....
Twist = 150 X D2/L
Where:
D = bullet diameter in inches
L= bullet length in inches
150 = a constant
In essence, the current ways of determining twist are not very refined in most hunting/non-military circles.
In truth, the best way to determine required twist rate for an individual rifle is to shoot various bullets of different length through a rifle barrel. Some will work and some won't irregardless of what the math says should work, and generally, the longer the bullet, a faster twist rate is required to stabilize that bullet.. All the rest of the variables are just added "interference" at best in our practical hunting world.
-BCB
Rifling is the helix-shaped pattern in the barrel of a gun or firearm, which imparts a spin to a projectile around its long axis. This spin serves to gyroscopically stabilize the projectile, improving its aerodynamic stability and accuracy.
Rifling is described by its twist rate, which indicates the distance the bullet must travel to complete one full revolution, such as "1 turn in 10 inches" (1:10 inches), or "1 turn in 30 cm" (1:30 cm). A shorter distance indicates a "faster" twist, meaning that for a given velocity the projectile will be rotating at a higher spin rate.
A combination of the weight, length and shape of a projectile determines the twist rate needed to stabilize it – barrels intended for short, large-diameter projectiles like spherical lead balls require a very low twist rate, such as 1 turn in 48 inches (122 cm). Barrels intended for long, small-diameter bullets, such as the ultra-low-drag, 80-grain 0.224 inch bullets (5.2 g, 5.56 mm), use twist rates of 1 turn in 8 inches (20 cm) or faster.
In some cases, rifling will have twist rates that increases down the length of the barrel, called a gain twist; a twist rate that decreases from breech to muzzle is undesirable, as it cannot reliably stabilize the bullet as it travels down the bore. Extremely long projectiles such as flechettes may require impractically high twist rates; these projectiles must be inherently stable, and are often fired from a smoothbore barrel.
OK....
First off...if you're going to quote someone or some place where data is written, you should include " " to indicate the thoughts and words are not your own. Instead they are information that you have "Googled" perhaps.
Your material failed to mention other variables such as altitude, barometric pressure, temperature that also "help" determine twist rate if you want to get into the physics of the issue. They are all important, but projectile length is the major one..
Many of the twist rate determination "tools" - including what you quoted - use the old Greenhill formula or a derivative of it to determine twist rate. The only problem with using it is that it was designed for artillery and is valid only to about 1800 FPS velocity partially due to the constant Greenhill used.
Here's the actual formula - Greenhill was an artillery officer....
Twist = 150 X D2/L
Where:
D = bullet diameter in inches
L= bullet length in inches
150 = a constant
In essence, the current ways of determining twist are not very refined in most hunting/non-military circles.
In truth, the best way to determine required twist rate for an individual rifle is to shoot various bullets of different length through a rifle barrel. Some will work and some won't irregardless of what the math says should work, and generally, the longer the bullet, a faster twist rate is required to stabilize that bullet.. All the rest of the variables are just added "interference" at best in our practical hunting world.
-BCB
A few year ago I rechamberred a Stevens 200 223 barrel to 22-204 thinking the increased capacity would be great with heavier bullets and the 1-9 twist. Turns out the very best accuracy has been with 40gr NBT's at 3900fps. Go Tell!!! The 40's turned out to preform realy great on coyotes too. It's the only load I run through that rig now.
AWS
AWS
Quote:
Since a bullet can't get wider to attain a heavier weight, wouldn't one assume that it would get longer? Therefore, heavier weight bullet = Longer
Some of the lead-free bullets are longer while weighing less. The Barnes all copper bullets for example, copper being less dense than lead, would be longer for same bullet weight. Also the cavity of a hollow point could be bigger, making the bullet longer than some of the same weight.
peace.
unloaded
Since a bullet can't get wider to attain a heavier weight, wouldn't one assume that it would get longer? Therefore, heavier weight bullet = Longer
Some of the lead-free bullets are longer while weighing less. The Barnes all copper bullets for example, copper being less dense than lead, would be longer for same bullet weight. Also the cavity of a hollow point could be bigger, making the bullet longer than some of the same weight.
peace.
unloaded
Bayou City Boy
New member
Quote:
Since a bullet can't get wider to attain a heavier weight, wouldn't one assume that it would get longer? Therefore, heavier weight bullet = Longer
You're right to a degree in what you are saying, as weight generally follows length in bullets, but not always. Still... weight is not the determining factor for twist rate...
For example....You could make a relatively short lead tipped bullet that would shoot in a certain twist rate just fine. You could also make a longer and lighter, well balanced HP bullet for the same gun and it would not stabilize in the same barrel due to its length.
No matter how you slice it, the bullet length is key.... greater bullet weight just happens to generally follow greater bullet length.
-BCB
Since a bullet can't get wider to attain a heavier weight, wouldn't one assume that it would get longer? Therefore, heavier weight bullet = Longer
You're right to a degree in what you are saying, as weight generally follows length in bullets, but not always. Still... weight is not the determining factor for twist rate...
For example....You could make a relatively short lead tipped bullet that would shoot in a certain twist rate just fine. You could also make a longer and lighter, well balanced HP bullet for the same gun and it would not stabilize in the same barrel due to its length.
No matter how you slice it, the bullet length is key.... greater bullet weight just happens to generally follow greater bullet length.
-BCB
Dave Allen
New member
I hope..I've followed along & have the "Jist" of the conversation..BCB..Is correct it's about length.
An example is i was able to stabalize a 60 gr.Hornady s.p. through a 1/14 twist 22/250,A 60 gr V-max is noticably longer..Didn't measure the two,No need i can tell it's longer & it's doubtfull the rifle would stabilize it.Guess i could have tried,didn't see any point in it.
Just My Thought's.
An example is i was able to stabalize a 60 gr.Hornady s.p. through a 1/14 twist 22/250,A 60 gr V-max is noticably longer..Didn't measure the two,No need i can tell it's longer & it's doubtfull the rifle would stabilize it.Guess i could have tried,didn't see any point in it.
Just My Thought's.
Quote:
Quote:
Since a bullet can't get wider to attain a heavier weight, wouldn't one assume that it would get longer? Therefore, heavier weight bullet = Longer
You're right to a degree in what you are saying, as weight generally follows length in bullets, but not always. Still... weight is not the determining factor for twist rate...
For example....You could make a relatively short lead tipped bullet that would shoot in a certain twist rate just fine. You could also make a longer and lighter, well balanced HP bullet for the same gun and it would not stabilize in the same barrel due to its length.
No matter how you slice it, the bullet length is key.... greater bullet weight just happens to generally follow greater bullet length.
-BCB
Mr. BCB ,
Not doubting what you said and I agree for the most part . I just wanted to ask : Wouldn't velocity make a difference ? Like , shoot the samme bullet through that same barrel at 2 different speeds . Would the one with the higher speed have a higher rotational spin also due to the higher velocity ? I may be way off here but I just wanted to ask . No disrespect intended at all .
Quote:
Since a bullet can't get wider to attain a heavier weight, wouldn't one assume that it would get longer? Therefore, heavier weight bullet = Longer
You're right to a degree in what you are saying, as weight generally follows length in bullets, but not always. Still... weight is not the determining factor for twist rate...
For example....You could make a relatively short lead tipped bullet that would shoot in a certain twist rate just fine. You could also make a longer and lighter, well balanced HP bullet for the same gun and it would not stabilize in the same barrel due to its length.
No matter how you slice it, the bullet length is key.... greater bullet weight just happens to generally follow greater bullet length.
-BCB
Mr. BCB ,
Not doubting what you said and I agree for the most part . I just wanted to ask : Wouldn't velocity make a difference ? Like , shoot the samme bullet through that same barrel at 2 different speeds . Would the one with the higher speed have a higher rotational spin also due to the higher velocity ? I may be way off here but I just wanted to ask . No disrespect intended at all .