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#1137897 - 12/09/08 11:23 AM Nikon Coyote Scope
Gary_Roberson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Menard, TX, USA
As most of you know, I have been working with Nikon to produce a scope specifically dedicated to the sport of predator calling. I was informed that I will have one of the prototypes in my hands by year end. This is a very exciting project and one that if it works as I think, will change the game.

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#1137898 - 12/09/08 11:31 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Gary_Roberson]
rockinbbar Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 10218
Loc: TX
I look forward to checking that scope out, Gary.

It's about time we had a dedicated scope for coyote hunting.

will you write a comprehensive review from your standpoint & please explain all the features & why they were incorporated into the scope.

It ought to be a hit!

Barry
_________________________
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skżla!

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#1137899 - 12/09/08 12:35 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: rockinbbar]
WyoYote Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 935
Loc: Cody, Wyoming
Gary, can you reveal at this time any of the features this scope would offer?

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#1137900 - 12/09/08 01:26 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: WyoYote]
Hidalgo Online
PM senior

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 6211
Loc: Weatherford, TX
Just so happens.......I need a new scope right about now.....

Looking forward to the release.
_________________________
“The devil whispers "you cannot withstand the storm". The warrior replies "I am the storm".

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#1137901 - 12/09/08 02:27 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Hidalgo]
Nikonut Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 07/26/01
Posts: 4526
Loc: Mt.Zion, Illinois USA
Hey Gary!

That is great news! I just put a Nikon ProStaff 3x9 on my crossbow, not the perfect scope for that purpose but far better than the 4 power that was on it...
Maybe you could drop a hint about a crossbow scope as well with the BDC reticle expanded!

As you can clearly see by my screen name I love my Nikons! Cameras and scopes!

Nikonut
_________________________
"I've been a PM member for a very long time and I believe in the dream of a unified predator hunting community... I feel that was Will Craig's goal! I was beginning to see a glimmer of hope of that being possible, time will tell."

Support the NRA and help preserve our hunting heritage and our 2nd Amendment rights!
NRA Life/Endowment Member

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#1137902 - 12/09/08 05:50 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Nikonut]
Gary_Roberson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Menard, TX, USA
Partners,
Nikon has asked me to keep the particulars of this scope under wraps until Shot Show. I will be glad to give you the particulars about that time, IF the scope performs in the field as well as it does in theory. If it does not, I am going to act as though we never had this conversation!
Adios,
Gary

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#1137903 - 12/09/08 08:41 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Gary_Roberson]
rockinbbar Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 10218
Loc: TX
I'll see you (and hopefully the scope) at the shot show. No secrets then, my friend...
_________________________
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skżla!

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#1137904 - 12/09/08 08:50 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: rockinbbar]
cornstalker Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 1736
Loc: USA
That's exciting. I sure hope it is in their upper end stuff.


Love the Monarch's!!

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#1137905 - 12/09/08 09:32 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: cornstalker]
SeekingTradDeer Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 332
Loc: Pennsylvania
I'm hoping it goes as low as 4x and has some type of illuninated dot for us Eastern night hunters.
_________________________
Earth has no sorrow which Heaven cannot heal.

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#1137906 - 12/09/08 10:57 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: SeekingTradDeer]
SDCoyoteCaller Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 1941
Loc: South Dakota
This is great news, Gary. I hope everything works out and we will see one real soon. Thanks.
_________________________
Mark

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#1137907 - 12/10/08 03:06 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: SeekingTradDeer]
lennyzrx Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 943
Loc: ohio
Quote:

I'm hoping it goes as low as 4x and has some type of illuninated dot for us Eastern night hunters.




I like that small illuminated dot some manufactures are using.
_________________________
Yes. My father is a nice guy. I'm NOT!

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#1137908 - 12/10/08 05:05 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: lennyzrx]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
I don't know what they have in mind, but I sure know what I would like to see. I would like it to be a user friendly scope for AR-15 rifles. Meaning 4" of eye relief, a power range from 2X or 2.5X to 10X, with a 40mm to 50mm bell. A dot reticle (not any itty bitty micro sized dot either) with the option for a lighted dot would be nice. Lightweight and relatively compact would be unique and appreciated as well. That means 12" or shorter. Of course the finish would at the very least need to be matte and a couple different camo options would make it even better. No need for target height turrets, AO's, or extra long tubes. Speaking of tubes an option for 30mm wouldn't hurt my feelings either. In short, I want the brighest, sharpest, lightweight, most compact scope I can find. I want the low magnification for those close moving shots and the 10X for those buggers that hang up out there 250 to 400 yards. The technology is there and some scopes come close, but as of yet, I haven't found what I consider to be a great coyote hunting scope yet.

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#1137909 - 12/10/08 07:54 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Ursus21]
E5B Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 199
Loc: NC (misplaced Texan)
The perfect predator scope for me would be a 3.5-15x44 without side focus or AO and has a 4.5" eye relief.

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#1137910 - 12/12/08 12:10 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: E5B]
Blueprinted Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 121
Loc: PA
They have a great one now. 4-16 Monarch. I just wished they were about 6 oz lighter.

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#1137911 - 12/14/08 01:57 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: SeekingTradDeer]
gumboot458 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 896
Loc: Copper Basin Interior Alaska ...
Quote:

I'm hoping it goes as low as 4x and has some type of illuninated dot for us Eastern night hunters.


. I would like to see 3x at the bottom end or even 2x . ..A 2-10 x 40mm would be great , with the circles , but also some of the christ mas tree lines for running predators or wind ......And a very faint illumination so it doesn,t over power the fov ..
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#1137912 - 12/18/08 03:57 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: gumboot458]
SaltyDog Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 133
Loc: North CentralTexas
Gary..now I know what that ole Yote out there feels like when he first hears that squeelin' rabbit!
Your mention of a "new preditor scope" has us all druelling with our ears perked up on "high alert" now just hit us with some follow up squeeks of info & pics on a cool scope and we will all circle down wind to check it out.

The hungryest one of us will run in & check it out...if they like it & survive, we will all come running to share in the goodies.

Cant wait to see how this thing turns out!

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#1137913 - 12/18/08 07:44 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: SaltyDog]
Va_Coyote_Killer Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 56
Loc: Virginia
All the guys in the EAST that hunt at NIGHT would love for it to have as much light gathering capability as possible. We all look forward to taking a look at it when it comes out. I will be watching for further posts. Thanks for the Info

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#1137914 - 01/16/09 01:28 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Gary_Roberson]
lennyzrx Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 943
Loc: ohio
Quote:

Partners,
Nikon has asked me to keep the particulars of this scope under wraps until Shot Show. I will be glad to give you the particulars about that time, IF the scope performs in the field as well as it does in theory. If it does not, I am going to act as though we never had this conversation!
Adios,
Gary




Well it's Shot Show time lets hear about this new scope?
_________________________
Yes. My father is a nice guy. I'm NOT!

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#1137915 - 01/16/09 05:22 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: lennyzrx]
rockinbbar Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 10218
Loc: TX
I mean to go see Gary & the new scope while I'm here at ShotShow....

I don't think I even made it into that half of the building yesterday. Big Place....over 1800 exhibitors this year.

BTW I'm taking pics of all the PM sponsors that have booths here, & will do write up on the event.

Barry
_________________________
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skżla!

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#1137916 - 01/16/09 02:59 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: rockinbbar]
lennyzrx Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 943
Loc: ohio
rockinbbar. let us know. if you get a chance swing by the Europear American Armory booth and check out that pistol caliber carbine that looks like a Beretta Storm, see what the spec's are.

thank's
_________________________
Yes. My father is a nice guy. I'm NOT!

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#1137917 - 01/16/09 07:43 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: lennyzrx]
kansascoyote Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 07/10/06
Posts: 137
Loc: kansas
Just looked at the new scope on Nikons website, looks like a buckmaster with camo and new a new reticle? Hope Gary will chime in with some more specs.

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#1137918 - 01/16/09 07:54 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: kansascoyote]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Where on the website did you see it? I looked for it last night but could not find it.

Edit: Never mind I got it. Thanks.


Edited by 4949shooter (01/16/09 07:55 PM)

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#1137919 - 01/16/09 08:00 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
I like the camo and the Anti Reflective device. It seems they are great scopes for bolt guns or longer barreled AR's.


Edited by 4949shooter (01/16/09 08:08 PM)

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#1137920 - 01/16/09 09:35 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
kilk14 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 348
Loc: SD
Is there a difference in the BDC reticle and the BDC Coyote Reticle?

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#1137921 - 01/17/09 07:25 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: kilk14]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
I was wondering that myself. They indicate the reticle is specific to coyote hunting but they don't show it. They say it is the circle dot pattern that is they same as their regular BDC reticle.

EDIT. Maybe Gary will be along soon to offer some of his insight. I would also like to know if Nikon intends to make a smaller, lighter, 2x7 version for AR's with shorter length barrels.


Edited by 4949shooter (01/17/09 07:30 AM)

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#1137922 - 01/17/09 12:50 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
gary paugh Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 12/20/03
Posts: 1928
Loc: portland oregon
Yes i would like to see one that starts at about 1.5X or 2X and go's up to 6X or 8X with a 42mm 0r 44mm objective.

As it stands nikons 1.5X to 6X by 42 monark gold scope is the best coyote scope i have used.
_________________________
Mark Twain described the coyote as
“ a living, breathing allegory
of Want. He is always hungry. He
is always poor, out of luck and friendless.
The meanest creatures despise
him and even the flea would desert him
for a velocipede.” .

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#1137923 - 01/17/09 06:42 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: gary paugh]
JDReno Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 253
Loc: Northern Nevada
Heres a link for those that want to see them...
Figured I'd make it easy on people cause it takes a while to get to Nikon's appropriate website.

Would definitely make a nice upgrade scope for the Savage predators, or Remington Predator models since it's available in mossy oak brush.

Nikon Coyote Scopes
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Newly addicted...

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#1137924 - 01/18/09 12:22 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: JDReno]
sscoyote Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 11/28/02
Posts: 2492
Loc: pueblo, co
If Nikon's true to form, the catalog will have all the subtensions and picture of the reticle in it. Their catalog has one of the best Tech. Spec. info in the business.

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#1137925 - 01/19/09 12:04 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Gary_Roberson]
SaltyDawg Offline
New Member

Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 22
Loc: Salt Lake
To be honest I was expecting more from a coyote specific scope. Some of the features are great and I'm sure it will perform flawlessly like their others optics.

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#1137926 - 01/19/09 12:41 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: SaltyDawg]
Sly Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 594
Loc: Coyote Country
+1 Gary

I'd have to see the new reticle but nothing else I saw on the Nikon website impressed me that much about the new predator hunting scope over a non-predator Nikon scope. I would much rather have the Nikon Monarch Gold 1x6x42 that I have now.

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#1137927 - 01/19/09 12:51 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: SaltyDawg]
Nikonut Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 07/26/01
Posts: 4526
Loc: Mt.Zion, Illinois USA
I'm a hugh Nikon fan if my member handle doesn't give a clue but I have to agree with SaltyDawg.

The ARD device is already available as an add on to most any scope and I'm not at all a fan of the BDC "Circle" reticle! It might work but to me it blocks more of the target than a standard or small dot. I was hoping this would be a tree like reticle with windage and an illuminated reticle option. If you have a BDC why would you need easy hand turn click adjustments? Seems like something that would get bumped out coyote calling.

I think these will still be great scopes for some, just not what I'm looking for!

Niknut
_________________________
"I've been a PM member for a very long time and I believe in the dream of a unified predator hunting community... I feel that was Will Craig's goal! I was beginning to see a glimmer of hope of that being possible, time will tell."

Support the NRA and help preserve our hunting heritage and our 2nd Amendment rights!
NRA Life/Endowment Member

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#1137928 - 01/19/09 04:19 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Nikonut]
Evil_Lurker Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/30/05
Posts: 6721
Loc: Oregon
Those just look like Buckmasters with a different camo pattern. Maybe I missed something.

But take a look:



I got that scope for $170 from Opticzone.
I was expecting something like a 1.5-6X range and a choice of reticles, plus some type of night illumination.
Keep trying.
_________________________
Let's keep this a nice site where we help the ignorant.

IdBob: You will be missed, my friend.

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#1137929 - 01/19/09 09:53 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Evil_Lurker]
RC2125 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Indiana/Michigan border
couldn't find any pic of the reticle in the catalog anywhere.

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#1137930 - 01/19/09 10:34 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: RC2125]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
Well that was a let down. Not that they aren't nice scopes, but they certainly don't offer much of anything different than is already out there. Not a very good selection of magnification options either. Basically it's just the same old, same old in a different package. Yawn.

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#1137931 - 01/19/09 11:26 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Ursus21]
motydesign Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 74
Loc: Utah
wow i am glad i wasnt the only one that wasnt impressed looked at it Sat. and didnt want to say anything. about the only thing i saw was the honey comb anti-glare. which is a $5 mod. but as said before i was looking more for:

- crazy FOV (could be better with a 30mm tube)(the monarch is better)
- small dot BDC
- something that was tougher (not saying its not tough) to take the beatings of hiking
- Smaller package (the monarch is a full 1" small)(but is an ounce heavier)


i guess i could go on, but thats the big list

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#1137932 - 01/19/09 05:11 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: RC2125]
Evil_Lurker Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/30/05
Posts: 6721
Loc: Oregon

Quote:

couldn't find any pic of the reticle in the catalog anywhere.





I found this for you. The biggest complaint I've heard (I don't own it, all mine are Du-Plex), is that the heavy design covers too much of the target. There's also no markers to compensate for a cross-wind, which is a big factor at longer ranges.

Nikon BDC review
_________________________
Let's keep this a nice site where we help the ignorant.

IdBob: You will be missed, my friend.

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#1137933 - 01/19/09 05:48 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Evil_Lurker]
EDP Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 979
Loc: Texas
is coyote rdical the same as BDC?
_________________________
Eddie
Reality Outdoors



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#1137934 - 01/20/09 01:27 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: EDP]
Evil_Lurker Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/30/05
Posts: 6721
Loc: Oregon
I din't know for sure, but I suspect it is.
_________________________
Let's keep this a nice site where we help the ignorant.

IdBob: You will be missed, my friend.

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#1137935 - 01/20/09 01:19 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Evil_Lurker]
cemiddle Offline
New Member

Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Andrews, TX
are these available to buy yet? if so whats the cost

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#1137936 - 01/20/09 01:49 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: lennyzrx]
6mm06 Online
PM senior

Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 9358
Loc: USA
I'm like everyone else, just waiting anxiously to see what it's like - and, have my own thoughts as to what that should be. Doesn't hurt to dream a little.

I'm like Seeking TradDeer - I was hopeful to see an illuminated dot recticle.

Thanks for a "heads-up" about the scope. I'm anxious to see one up close and personal.


Edited by 6mm06 (01/20/09 01:52 PM)

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#1137937 - 01/20/09 02:33 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 6mm06]
VantuckyKain Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 161
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Other than the camo and anti glare cover it looks like the "Team Primos" scope. Which I just bought and am loving. The BDC reticle is a little thick but not bad. Hopefully the new reticle offers something different.

BDC reticle


Edited by VantuckyKain (01/20/09 02:37 PM)
_________________________

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#1137938 - 01/20/09 07:01 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: VantuckyKain]
Hutch218 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/08/07
Posts: 117
Loc: Wichita, KS and Spokane, WA
Well, I'm with the majority it looks like. I was really looking forward to this scope but I'm not very impressed with it, I'd take my 2.5-10x42 Monarch over one of those any day. If they had better magnification options, different reticles, and illuminated reticles then I would be interested. But from what the website says, I'm kinda disappointed in it.
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It's comin' right for us!

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#1137939 - 01/20/09 07:54 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Hutch218]
Derag2 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 335
Loc: Nebraska
I too am a bit dissapointed, but who knows maybe they'll offer more options later. Could just be testing the waters a little bit to see if its be a hit. I think alot of people will just buy it cause its the coyote edition scope....
_________________________
Aim small, Miss small
.22-250 savage
.223 R-15 Remington AR
17hmr Savage

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#1137940 - 01/20/09 08:07 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Hutch218]
Evil_Lurker Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/30/05
Posts: 6721
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

they had better magnification options, different reticles, and illuminated reticles then I would be interested.




I'm in complete agreement on that. Nikon needs to put out something like this:

Millett

With a version of this reticle, so you can estimate wind drift.



I'd buy something like that.
_________________________
Let's keep this a nice site where we help the ignorant.

IdBob: You will be missed, my friend.

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#1137941 - 01/20/09 08:11 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Derag2]
Evil_Lurker Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/30/05
Posts: 6721
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

Could just be testing the waters a little bit to see if its be a hit.




Well, tell 'em what you would like, they ain't stupid.
_________________________
Let's keep this a nice site where we help the ignorant.

IdBob: You will be missed, my friend.

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#1137942 - 01/20/09 08:32 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Evil_Lurker]
rockinbbar Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 10218
Loc: TX
I saw the scopes there with Gary.
They are good scopes. I would have the 3-9 version. It was clear & had good reticle focus.

I have some other NEW predator dedicated stuff that I found at the ShotShow as well, from other companies.

I'll write these up. with pics & post them for review here.

BTW, Gary & his wife are super nice people. We enjoyed them.

I think Gary has some further input on this scope when revisions are being made that might effect the ultimate outcome of the finished product.

Barry
_________________________
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skżla!

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#1137943 - 01/20/09 08:47 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: rockinbbar]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
I wouldn't be surprised to see more models and magnifications of the coyote scope version put out by Nikon.

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#1137944 - 01/21/09 10:03 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
Gary_Roberson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Menard, TX, USA
Perhaps I can explain what we were trying to do when we started working on this project.
Since our average shot at a "called in" coyote is 70 yards, we wanted to keep the reticle very simple. There is no need for windage and rarely do we need to worry about elevation. My primary concern was to reduce target acquisition time...hence the open circle or loop. Most competition speed shooters are familiar with "loops".

We did want to employ a system similar to the BDC for the occasional 200-300 yard shot. This required a complete change of the reticle for the previous BDC scopes were based on a bullet traveling 2,900 fps. The new systme is based on a bullet traveling 3,700 fps. The typical BDC has 2" circles and is used primarily for big game. Since predators are smaller targets we decreased the size of the circles, the farther the shot.

The .204 and .223 do not recoil enough in most rifles to cause you to loose bullet impact. When shooting this open circle, I will see bullet impact and if it is where it should be, I forget about this target and am quickly searching for the second.

As of yesterday, the catalog displayed on their site was last year's model. The 2009 catalog has the specs of this scope in two different configurations, 3-9x40 and 4.5-14x40. They also have rings in Mossy Oak Brush and Advantage Max 1.

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#1137945 - 01/21/09 11:34 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Gary_Roberson]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Thanks for the update, Gary.

Are there any plans for a lower magnification model, such as a 2x7?

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#1137946 - 01/21/09 12:25 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
Gary in your own words: "Since our average shot at a "called in" coyote is 70 yards, we wanted to keep the reticle very simple. There is no need for windage and rarely do we need to worry about elevation."

Then why in the world is the lowest magnification 3X??? Not trying to be disrespectful, but it seems like a total brain fart to not offer a power setting lower than 3 power. Last Saturday I shot a coyote at 20 feet and my scope was set on 2.5X, and it would have been better if I could have set it even lower. Now a 1X-10X would really be something...and yes, the technology is there to make such a scope.

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#1137947 - 01/21/09 05:50 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Ursus21]
Gary_Roberson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Menard, TX, USA
Ursus21
I don't disagree with you. But Nikon is in the business of selling scopes and while you and I may not agree with the higher magnifications, most hunters (perhaps inexperienced) want the bigger magnifications. If you notice in the catalog they are offering the Coyote in a 4.5-14x40 as well as the 3-9x40.
You will also notice that the reticle is not cluttered, very simple. If you are asking me to help on a project for predator hunting, I am going to keep it simple, perhaps this is due to my simple mind.

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#1137948 - 01/21/09 09:49 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Gary_Roberson]
Derag2 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 335
Loc: Nebraska
I agree with Gary in that 3-9 is by far the more common scope powers. I personally will not buy a 2X7 scope, maybe im not good enough of a hunter but i find them pretty much worthless for long range shots. I have 3-9 and 4-12 and would like to have somthing higher than 12. I think they chose the two most popular combos for the scope. I think you'll see more upgrades to the scope as time goes on.
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#1137949 - 01/22/09 07:57 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Derag2]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Quote:

I agree with Gary in that 3-9 is by far the more common scope powers. I personally will not buy a 2X7 scope, maybe im not good enough of a hunter but i find them pretty much worthless for long range shots. I have 3-9 and 4-12 and would like to have somthing higher than 12. I think they chose the two most popular combos for the scope. I think you'll see more upgrades to the scope as time goes on.



Well, I guess there are differing opinions on the issue of scope magnification and predator hunting. Personally, I am not surprised Nikon came out with 3x9 power versions of their coyote scope. This does seem to be Nikon's bread and butter of hunting scopes, and as Gary stated, they are in the business of selling scopes.

I will tell you that my calling bolt gun (model 700) wears a 3x9 power scope. With a bolt gun, I like the opportunity to "reach out and touch" something. If Nikon had these scopes out when I was outfitting this rifle, I probably would have bought one. Now that I have an R-15 with 18" barrel to mount a scope on, I am looking to keep things lighter and magnification lower, as this is to be a short to medium range predator rifle. This is why I inquired about a 2x7 power scope.

I think making a blanket statement that a 2x7 power scope is "worthless" for longer range shots is a little too far though. I have seen high power shooters put shots in the 10 ring at six hundred yards using AR type rifles and nothing more than iron sights.

Everyone has their own preference.

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#1137950 - 01/22/09 10:02 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
Derag2 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 335
Loc: Nebraska
I just said that I think they are... I know theres alot of guys on here that shoot 2X7 and love them. I personally can't shoot very good with them. I don't have all that great eye sight so maybe thats part of it, I don't know. But I won't buy anything less than a 3-9.
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.223 R-15 Remington AR
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#1137951 - 01/22/09 10:27 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Derag2]
GregW Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/30/08
Posts: 795
Loc: Southern Arizona
Look forward to seeing the reticle Gary...

Keep up the good work...

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#1137952 - 01/22/09 12:05 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: GregW]
Byron South Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 04/19/03
Posts: 2910
Loc: Texas
Hey guys,

I saw the scope at the Shot Show too and it looked pretty good. I believe Gary did a great job. Would I have done it different? Maybe, maybe not. Thing is I applaud Gary and Nikon for making the effort. In this or any business what I have found is that it is impossible to make everyone happy, and one size rarely fits all.

Gary has as much experience calling coyotes as anyone out there and of course Nikon is not a new kid on the block either. If I was to try and design a scope Gary would certainly be on my short list of people to consult with. Gary is not only one of the best callers in the country but has also taken untold numbers of guys calling with varying degrees of shooting ability. This gives him a unique perspective on features likely to aid predator hunters. He knows the importance of fast target acquisition as well as the value of having a reticle with the ability to quickly find the reticle and MAKE the shot. I can see where this design different but my guess is this scope wasn’t designed with sniping coyotes at great distance in mind.

Now to my opinion ,(don't we all have one)? At first glance, I too was disappointed not to see at least some fine crosshairs or an aiming point in the center of the circle. After discussing my concern with a representative of Nikon I decided to give it a try in the real world before coming to a final conclusion. He agreed to send me one when they become available. Regardless of my conclusion I still understand that what I like may not be what you like. Thank God for choices and kudos to Gary and Nikon for giving us yet another.

As to the magnification options this scope comes in....the 3-9 would be my choice and feel this is about right for 99.9% of any coyote calling rifle. For those that feel they need more the 4.5-14 fills that need nicely. I have lots of rifles but don't own a scope over 10X (especially on a calling rifle).

Good Hunting, and God Bless,

Byron
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#1137953 - 01/22/09 12:42 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Byron South]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
I'm not disputing the upper end of the magnification spectrum. It's the lower end I think they missed the ball on. Seriously Byron you like 3X as your lowest setting for calling? I make do with it, but I don't like it, especially not on close moving targets.

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#1137954 - 01/22/09 01:18 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Derag2]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Quote:

I just said that I think they are... I know theres alot of guys on here that shoot 2X7 and love them. I personally can't shoot very good with them. I don't have all that great eye sight so maybe thats part of it, I don't know. But I won't buy anything less than a 3-9.



Fair enough. It sounds much better when you put it that way.

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#1137955 - 01/22/09 01:20 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
To anyone who may be interested...I just emailed Nikon and requested them to put a picture of their Predator BDC reticle on their website.

With all this interest generated a want to see it.

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#1137956 - 01/22/09 01:41 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Ursus21]
Byron South Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 04/19/03
Posts: 2910
Loc: Texas
URsus21,

I currently use a 2.5-8x VX-III and I usually have it set on 2.5. I like the ability to turn it up to 8X to pick out predators hung up in the brush. There isn't much difference between 2.5 and 3 so I don't see it as a problem. I have MUCH trigger time behind both the 2.5-8X and 3.5-10X Leupolds and with either, fast, close target aquisition have neve been a problem. With this said, I do like the lower powered scopes as well and feel that most people use more magnification than needed. In my mind 2-7, 2.5-8 and 3-9 are just right for most senarios I encounter. The reason I've settled on the 2.5-8X on my go to calling rifle is the weight savings and size over the larger 3.5-10X.

A littl off topic but somewhat pertenant.

Over the last couple of years I've been using the EOTechs more and more which have no magnification. At first I just put them on my shotguns and they, IMO, work better than iron sight with tight chokes. I love the "circle dot" which almost exactly mimics the pattern my shotgun throws. Plus it works beautifully at night, low light, or in brush where iron sights (even fiber optics) can wash out. EOTech recently came out with a 3X magnifier that fits behind the EOTech sight that effectively make it a 3X scope but retains the benefits of the illuminated "circle dot" of the main EOTech sight. A cool feature with this set up is that the magnifier is mounted with a flip to side feature that flips the magnifier to the side if not needed.

Didn't mean to sidetrack Gary's original point in making this post. I will also say that once you get behind this new Nikon scope in an actual calling envirionment I believe many of you will like it. I know I'm anxious to get behind one and try out it before I even think about discounting it out of hand.

Good Hunting, and God Bless,

Byron
_________________________

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#1137957 - 01/22/09 01:58 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Byron South]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
Byron, my main go-to coyote rifle wears a Leupold 2.5-8X as well. I like it for the same reasons you listed, but if it went to 1X that is where it would stay most of the time.

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#1137958 - 01/22/09 02:33 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Ursus21]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
I agree that 1x magnification would be a nice feature for our purposes.

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#1137959 - 01/22/09 02:56 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
stiff neck Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 06/26/03
Posts: 888
Loc: Northern CA
1x? I shoot most of my coyotes from 50-100 yards, and I keep my scope set on 6x the whole time. Every once in a while I'll crank it up to 10x-12x if I have a predator that hangs up or offers me a long shot.

But then again, I also take careful effort to DRT everything I shoot at, and I find it easier to aim at the vitals with medium magnification rather than low power.

Everybody has their own preference, but I suspect 3-9x will fit most people's bill, which is why it's such a big seller.

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#1137960 - 01/22/09 03:15 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: stiff neck]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Quote:

1x? I shoot most of my coyotes from 50-100 yards, and I keep my scope set on 6x the whole time. Every once in a while I'll crank it up to 10x-12x if I have a predator that hangs up or offers me a long shot.

But then again, I also take careful effort to DRT everything I shoot at, and I find it easier to aim at the vitals with medium magnification rather than low power.

Everybody has their own preference, but I suspect 3-9x will fit most people's bill, which is why it's such a big seller.



1x by 8x or 10x.

Don't get me wrong, I already stated I would have purchased one of these scopes in 3-9x if I were to need one today on a bolt gun.

But I agree that being able to adjust from 6, 8, or 10x to 1x would be a good feature. The last coyote I killed came in to about ten feet from behind my left shoulder before it saw me (and I saw it).

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#1137961 - 01/22/09 03:28 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
For me the Weaver Classic Extreme 2.5x10x50 with the illuminated dot reticle is as close to perfect as I can find so far. It's not perfect but it comes darn close.

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#1137962 - 01/22/09 07:18 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Byron South]
smokem Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 610
Loc: midwest
Just another example of some gimmicky features to develop more sales.. works most of the time... me included!Sometimes we spend more time chasing equipment than chasing the critter.Over the years ,I find I can get the job done with whatever I have happent to be using at the time.
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#1137963 - 01/22/09 11:37 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Gary_Roberson]
5194 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 296
Loc: Marana, Arizona
I've insisted on nothing but a small dot with fine crosshairs for shooting steel critters for over 20 years. Now that I've recently taken up shooting at the furry critters, it's very hard to change anything but the variable power on the scopes I buy. I would buy one of these Nikon scopes if it were built to the Monarch X specs with one of those purdy reticles like Ursus21 posted


Kevin
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#1137964 - 01/23/09 09:55 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 5194]
Gary_Roberson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Menard, TX, USA
Byron
It was good to see you at Shot. I appreciate all of the kind words. It is amazing the differences in opinions when it comes to hunting equipment, politics, trucks, whatever. At Shot, was visiting with Kevin Howard who does a lot of shooting and hunting. He also does the promos for Bushnell. Kevin said that he thought the 3" circle was to large for accuracy. I left Kevin and ran into Mic McPherson, outdoor writer and one heck of a shot on a coyote, running or otherwise. I know because I have hunted with him. Mic said the primary circle was too small...should be at least 6" in diameter.
After playing with the scope a little, I would come closer to agreeing with Mic. Remember, what we are trying to do is reduce target acquisition time...cut down on the time to recognize the shot and take it. I beleive that if we are not looking for crosshairs or dots we can reduce this time.
Of course, I have made a mistake before.
Thanks again,
Gary

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#1137965 - 01/23/09 11:55 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Gary_Roberson]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
Gary I'm sending you a PM.

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#1137966 - 01/23/09 12:18 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Gary_Roberson]
Evil_Lurker Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/30/05
Posts: 6721
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

After playing with the scope a little, I would come closer to agreeing with Mic.




Did either of them look at the 1MOA dot in 10 MOA donut reticle like Millett is using?
Is Nikon even considering adding a reticle illumination system? That opens up a whole bunch of potential problems for them, as you know.
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#1137967 - 01/23/09 02:22 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Evil_Lurker]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Well I heard back from Nikon. They were very gracious and will be updating their website with the reticle soon. I think they were asking for some feedback. Anyway, this is what they sent me. Sorry, the pic of the reticle did not come through:

Thank you for your recent email. I appreciate you bringing to our attention the fact that we neglected to show the BDC Predator reticle.

I will see to it that the website is updated as soon as possible.

In the meantime, I thought I would include the image below for your reference





The reticle is designed for a 100 yard sight in with the 223 and 55 grain bullets or a 200 yard sight in with a 22-250 and 55 grain bullets

The circles would subtend as follows:



223

Center of circle would be 100 yard zero

Bottom of circle would be 200 yard drop

1st circle would be 300

2nd circle would be 400



22-250

Center of circle would be 200 yard zero

Bottom of circle would be 250 yard drop

1st circle would be 350

2nd circle would be 450



Please let me know if you have any other questions or comments

EDIT: When I get home tonight I will try to post a picture of the reticle.


Edited by 4949shooter (01/23/09 02:39 PM)

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#1137968 - 01/23/09 06:33 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Okay here is the predator BDC reticle:



I suggested an aiming "dot" in the center of the large loop for precise zeroing at 100 yards. Byron already mentioned a fine reticle in the circle. As you can see it looks like it needs something there for more precise aiming. I also suggested an illuminated dot option for those hunters who may favor this.

I must admit, I like the concept. With a little tweaking I think it could be a good setup for our purposes. If Nikon seems open to feedback we can suggest some lower magnifications.

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#1137969 - 01/23/09 07:12 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
SDCoyoteCaller Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 1941
Loc: South Dakota
4949shooter,

Thanks for posting the pic. I have to agree that there needs to be either a crosshair in the center of the big circle or a dot for more accurate sighting in and accuracy testing. I definately think the scope has potential with a few minor tweeks. I personally would like to see a 3-12X magnification, but that's just one man's opinion.

Did you forward a link to this thread to Nikon?
_________________________
Mark

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#1137970 - 01/23/09 07:19 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: SDCoyoteCaller]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Quote:


Did you forward a link to this thread to Nikon?



No I didn't, SD. But I could give it a try.

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#1137971 - 01/23/09 09:00 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
I just heard back from Jon LaCorte, Product Marketing Manager for Nikon. He said that Nikon had considered an aiming dot in the center of the large circle, but this would have required etched glass and would have driven the cost up higher than they wanted.

He also said they are considering illumination for future models.

Mr. LaCorte did say that he is able to shoot tight groups with the open circle and no crosshair. Personally speaking, I have no experience with shooting circles and I don't know if I would be ready to drop any amount of $$ on a shooting system I was unsure of.

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#1137972 - 01/23/09 09:40 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
unloaded Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 12/03/06
Posts: 1905
Loc: SW Indiana
I don't like the looks of the reticle myself. I'm not saying it wouldn't work good, or that I wouldn't like it if I tried it. I just can't see myself dropping $200-300 out of curiosity. Maybe a lot of raving reviews would change my mind but I really doubt it. I do like the glare killer, might get one for my current scope, I never really gave them much thought before. The most encouraging thing about the scope is that they are at least trying to cater to predator hunters. That fact alone bumps the whole brand up a notch on my list.

peace.
unloaded

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#1137973 - 01/23/09 11:10 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: unloaded]
Derag2 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 335
Loc: Nebraska
was that just a quick drawing or is that really the reticle? Those arn't even circles..... I don't see how it could be accurate to shoot with but I too have never shot anything like that.
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#1137974 - 01/24/09 06:35 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Derag2]
smokem Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 610
Loc: midwest
Looks like it would make a good shotgun reticule.No center aiming point?? . Very similar to what shepard has had in their scopes for years except shepards contain a center aiming point.I killed alot of coyotes with the shepard and it does work for ranging purposes, so I assume the Nikon would work also. Would be interesting to see how you would zero the scope without the center being defined.,so I see nothing new about this idea.
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#1137975 - 01/24/09 08:14 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Derag2]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Quote:

was that just a quick drawing or is that really the reticle?



I don't know for sure, it's what was furnished to me. I copied the pic to my computer and then used photobucket to post it here.

Again, I think the concept shows promise but I would like to see a center dot for zero purposes.

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#1137976 - 01/24/09 09:45 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
Wow, if that's the final product I will pass! It looks half thought out.

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#1137977 - 01/24/09 02:59 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
Evil_Lurker Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/30/05
Posts: 6721
Loc: Oregon
Well, in my opinion (and that's all it is ), if the center circle was illuminated, and a 1 MOA illuminated center dot was added, and it was offered in a 2-6 or 2-8X range, I'd be very tempted to have one. Or more than one.
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#1137978 - 01/24/09 03:12 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Evil_Lurker]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Quote:

Well, in my opinion (and that's all it is ), if the center circle was illuminated, and a 1 MOA illuminated center dot was added, and it was offered in a 2-6 or 2-8X range, I'd be very tempted to have one. Or more than one.



+1. I would even take one without the illumination.

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#1137979 - 01/26/09 11:27 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
Gary_Roberson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Menard, TX, USA
In time Nilon will proably offer an illuminated model. If I have my way, there will not be a center dot. Remember what I said earlier, our primary goal in the development of this scope was to reduce target acquisiton time. If you have a dot or crosshairs, you will be looking for them. We want to go to the loop system that speed competition shooters use or the old peep sights that are also know for speed.
I carried my prototype to the range on Sat. morning braving a 20 mph crosswind. At 100 yards, I was able to shoot a .6" group using the 36 grain Varmint Grenades. Since I am testing them for Barnes, I wanted to sight my rifle in with them before leaving this weekend.
If I wanted to shoot a coyote in the eye at 100 yards, this reticle would not be my choice, I would prefer a fine crosshair. When calling coyotes, I generally take shoulder shots or frontal chest...nothing fancy, just want the coyote down.
Another advantage of this reticle is I am able to see bullet impact with my .223. If I see the bullet part the fur where I am aiming, I can totally forget that dog. Being able to leave that dog quicker will mean that I am looking for another coyote/coyotes a little quicker.
I appreciate all of your input but Nikon can afford to make just so many different models at a time.
Good luck and happy hunting!
Gary

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#1137980 - 01/26/09 12:17 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Gary_Roberson]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Thanks for all your hard work, Gary.

It wasn't my intent to be critical of you or Nikon here. I think the reticle is a good idea, but may be a tough sell to some hunters (myself included) who are not familiar with zero procedures without utilizing a dot or crosshair.

Please let us know how the reticle performs during your hunt.

4949

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#1137981 - 01/26/09 03:19 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Gary_Roberson]
Evil_Lurker Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/30/05
Posts: 6721
Loc: Oregon
I don't doubt that an open circle can be very accurate. The human eye has a very good ability to find the center of a small circle, that's been proven.
As far as the illuminated dot "cluttering up" what you've got now, that's the beauty of being able to turn it off.
Night, twilight, etc. you have still have a very quick and accurate sighting system, even if the reticle isn't visible.
But press on, what they have now is quite nice, and at least Nikon is interested in the market and making an effort. Don't take any of my input as negative opinions/bashing on Nikon, I'm a big fan.
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#1137982 - 01/26/09 03:29 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Evil_Lurker]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
Gary ditto what 4949Shooter said.

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#1137983 - 01/28/09 12:27 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Ursus21]
stiff neck Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 06/26/03
Posts: 888
Loc: Northern CA
A .6 inch group at 100 yards, in a 20 mph crosswind, with a recticle that has no center crosshair or aiming dot, AND with a light 36 gr 223 bullet that has a seemingly poor ot at best spotty reputation for accuracy?

Man! Sounds almost too good to be true! A report like that could only come from a sponsor! Come on now... You must be trying to sell us Barnes Grenade bullets and Nikon Coyote scopes. A .6 inch group? I do believe in luck, but I don't believe your results are very repeatable. What were the rest of the groups like?

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#1137984 - 01/28/09 02:35 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: stiff neck]
BUTCHER45 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 705
Loc: Oregon

I guess that most of the conditions I am hunting in (usually low-light and very thick timber, with some clear-cuts, farm canals, etc) are the exception when it comes to coyote hunting?

The fixed 4X32mm I have now is WAY to much scope for setting-up in the thick timber. I need something where the magnification starts with a "1" or "1.5", for maximum field-of-view, light gathering, and the fastest target acquisition.

The Monarch Gold 1.5-6X with the #4 post looks like the ideal scope for my area, and has got it over just about everything I can compare it to overall regardless of manufacturer.

After all, a 6X scope makes a 300 yard target appear to be 50 yards away.

For 1 inch scopes I wouldn't mind the Monarch 2-8, which is more in my price range. Still want 1.5 or less power for starters.
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"Treat me good, and I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, and I'll treat you worse." Sonny Barger
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#1137985 - 01/28/09 04:12 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: BUTCHER45]
BUTCHER45 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 705
Loc: Oregon
I spoke to soon. Nikon has a new thick-woods version as well. They just gave it a more exotic name is all.

Just checked out Nikon's updated site, and found what I was looking for in their new Monarch "African" scopes. Those are the ticket for timber! Looks like the old Turkey scope with a #4 reticle (finally!).

I AM overdue for a scope upgrade....this might be it. They even have a 1 inch 1-4X20mm version for my BKL Rings, but the potential 108foot FOV of the 30mm 1.1-4X24 version is awful tempting....



http://www.nikonhunting.com/riflescopes-monarch-african.html


Edited by BUTCHER45 (01/28/09 04:13 AM)
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BUTCHER45
"Treat me good, and I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, and I'll treat you worse." Sonny Barger
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#1137986 - 01/28/09 09:33 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: BUTCHER45]
WhitBri Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 39
Loc: Iowa
Sounds like Nikon produced something different here. Don't know if I would personally like it as I have never tried something like it. I think we should be happy that Nikon is atleast willing to try something new. I'm sure if it works the rest will follow with a copy. If you look through Nikon's full line they have a scope that fits most of the wants listed above, maybe not all in one package but probably close. Bottom line sometimes perfect just isn't possible or what one person thinks is perfect just won't sell to the masses. As far as the .6 group it is possible even in a 20 mph wind as long as the wind is consistent and shooter is reading the wind. Go to a benchrest match on a windy day, its amazing what they can do.

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#1137987 - 01/29/09 12:31 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: WhitBri]
stiff neck Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 06/26/03
Posts: 888
Loc: Northern CA
I know what benchrest shooters can do, but they don't use 36gr Grenades in 223, or low powered scopes without a center crosshair or dot.

Like I said previously, besides the one amazing group in a 20 mph cross wind, what did the rest of the groups look like. And don't blame the wind if the other groups were poor, because you already posted how well you were able to shoot despite the wind. And you can't blame poor ammo because you are "testing them for Barnes" so there's no way you'd publicly say anything negative about them. And you're in kahoots with Nikon too, so you can't blame poor groups on the lack of crosshairs.

But really, who tests ANYTHING in a 20 mph cross wind? Why would you do that?

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#1137988 - 01/29/09 01:17 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: stiff neck]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Stiff neck,
I think he said he was getting his gear sighted in before he left on his trip to test the products. He just may not have had a better day for it with time constraints.

That having been said there are some additional reasons I think a dot or crosshair might be in order. There are many predator hunters who will shoot at smaller animals in addition to coyote, such as fox or badger. The coyote circles wll most likely be too large for these smaller animals. Also, some hunters just will not use the lower circles. Not having a fine dot or crosshair to aim with would impede these guys.

Just my 2 cents worth (again).

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#1137989 - 02/01/09 02:38 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
sscoyote Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 11/28/02
Posts: 2492
Loc: pueblo, co
Quote:

Gary ditto what 4949Shooter said.




...+3!!

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#1137990 - 02/02/09 04:07 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: sscoyote]
bigdummy30 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 201
Loc: md.
midway already has pricing on these......

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#1137991 - 02/02/09 05:17 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: bigdummy30]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
I saw that as well.

I went to Cabelas today, hoping to get a glimpse of one of those reticles in person.

But no dice....they didn't have the scopes in yet.

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#1137992 - 02/02/09 06:50 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
bigdummy30 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 201
Loc: md.
i was all ready to get one due to the fact it will match the camo on my R-15 but i'm not digging the new reticle AT ALL...but in person it may be better...

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#1137993 - 02/02/09 08:01 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: bigdummy30]
rockinbbar Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 10218
Loc: TX
I'm thinking it's feedback like this that Nikon & others look for in incorporating what you want into a new product...

While constructive critisism is wanted by them, if done in a nice way, it can benefit us all.

Thanks

Barry
_________________________
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#1137994 - 02/02/09 08:09 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: stiff neck]
GregW Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/30/08
Posts: 795
Loc: Southern Arizona
Quote:

A .6 inch group at 100 yards, in a 20 mph crosswind, with a recticle that has no center crosshair or aiming dot, AND with a light 36 gr 223 bullet that has a seemingly poor ot at best spotty reputation for accuracy?

Man! Sounds almost too good to be true! A report like that could only come from a sponsor! Come on now... You must be trying to sell us Barnes Grenade bullets and Nikon Coyote scopes. A .6 inch group? I do believe in luck, but I don't believe your results are very repeatable. What were the rest of the groups like?




I love reading posts by the internet skill judges...

Gary is 100% class and if he said he did it, he did...

Ever think that the man is busy and the one range day he had the wind happened to be blowing?

You take care now and keep practicing that shooting...grin..

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#1137995 - 02/02/09 09:00 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: GregW]
rockinbbar Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 10218
Loc: TX
I too know & trust Gary & what he says. He's an excellent rifle shot & even helped in the design & introduction of the Savage Predator Rifle...

If the military can shoot great groups with peep sights, I know a scope has the capability. Not just everyone can do it all the time.

I saw the Nikon at the shotshow & don't see that I would have trouble shooting tight groups with the existing reticle.

There may be better, or more prefered reticles availible, but as I said, the input here is where you get your voice heard by the people that count.

I wish that Savage would put a better scope line on that Predator Rifle that is offered in the package series....perhaps if we had more input on that, the subject would come up when it matters most....I'm sure it's a good scope for the $$, but being a bit picky, I would take the scope off & replace it with something better before i even shot the rifle.

Barry
_________________________
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skżla!

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#1137996 - 02/03/09 01:38 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: rockinbbar]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
Barry (Rockinbbar) I normally enjoy your posts and for the most part agree with you. Heck, I wish Savage would upgrade the scope selection too, and was just thinking about it earlier this week. I also believe in standing up for friends, but even friends say and do stupid things now and then, and rather than defend it, I will either point it out or let it slide. However, I won't defend rediculous or exaggerated statements or behavior. I shoot a lot and have shot with some exceptionally good marksmen both for fun and competition. I can usually hold my own. Shooting half inch groups or better is what I expect from most of my rifles or they get sent down the road. I also live in one of the most windy places in the entire nation. In other words I shoot a lot in the wind. With that said, Gary might be one heckuva a nice guy and good shot, but methinks his statement of a .6" group in a 20mph crosswind, with Barnes fly-weight gernade bullets, using that reticle might just be a tad exaggerated. Perhaps his decimal point was a typo and should have been one to the right. Even if he did shoot it, I guarantee it's not something he or anyone else could consistantly repeat with those parameters. I would also bet it was a 3 shot group or less. Sorry but with all due respect, I find his claim extremely hard to believe.

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#1137997 - 02/03/09 03:39 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Ursus21]
Nikonut Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 07/26/01
Posts: 4526
Loc: Mt.Zion, Illinois USA
Guys,

First let me say that if Gary said he shot a .6" group with this scope, I have no doubt whatsoever that HE did it! Wind affects POI more than groups anyway. As for the 36grns, maybe they have them doing what they are designed to do... I've never seen or shot one.

Back to scopes. I don't see how any one scope or design can be right for every situation. I think at least three seperate scopes are needed for different coyote hunting situations!

First would be a light weight lower magnification scope say, 1 to 6x or 1.5 to 8x. Smaller circle lines and illuminated center dot. The circles have to be large enough and thin enough to not block the target. I would just use a shotgun if I wanted a circular sight without a center aiming point!

Second, maybe a 3 to 9x with the circles like is being offered with an illuminated option and center dot. That would be very popular with many types of hunters... even deer hunters.

Third a 4x-14x with tree type reticle for elevation and windage with fine lines and illuminated dot.

A high power scope with thick lines is worthless and you don't need windage or elevation on a close range scope! The one thing all coyote setups need in my opinion is an illuminated reticle... even in daylight(green works great)!

My go to scope is a Burris FullfieldII 6.5x20x50 with fineplex reticle. It sits on a 26" barreled Ruger VT in .22PPC. Is it perfect? Heck no! But it works great for my open field type hunting here in Illinois with 100-300yd shots.
If I'm heading into the woods or close cover a Ruger Standard in .223 is all I need with a 3x9 Prostaff... is it perfect, no! Sure wish it had illuminated reticle!

I've even hunted with my "Dan Dowling" built .223 Rem 700 benchgun with 12x42x56mm Nightforce, so as long as it works for you...

Hopefully like has been said Nikon is looking to build scopes with the features we need and want as coyote hunters and that gets my respect and vote all the way! Good job Nikon, and "Thank You" Gary for your input!

Nikonut
_________________________
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Support the NRA and help preserve our hunting heritage and our 2nd Amendment rights!
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#1137998 - 02/03/09 04:28 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Ursus21]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
A .6" group, in a 20mph crosswind with this reticle and light weight bullets.


Ya sure, whatever you say. Say hello to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny for me when you see them.

I guess it wouldn't surprise me to find out that not only did Gary shoot that group he probably did it with an H&R Handi Rifle, off-hand, with a mirror over his shoulder.

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#1137999 - 02/03/09 05:27 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Ursus21]
rockinbbar Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 10218
Loc: TX
Thanks for the input Ursus.
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Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skżla!

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#1138000 - 02/03/09 06:29 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: rockinbbar]
Nikonut Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 07/26/01
Posts: 4526
Loc: Mt.Zion, Illinois USA
Well Ursus21...

Until this statement I had respect for you. I think this is blatantly disrespectful coming from anyone.

Quote:

Ya sure, whatever you say. Say hello to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny for me when you see them.




Nikonut
_________________________
"I've been a PM member for a very long time and I believe in the dream of a unified predator hunting community... I feel that was Will Craig's goal! I was beginning to see a glimmer of hope of that being possible, time will tell."

Support the NRA and help preserve our hunting heritage and our 2nd Amendment rights!
NRA Life/Endowment Member

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#1138001 - 02/03/09 08:10 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Nikonut]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
Nikonut, my comments were not directed specifically at you. They are a blanket statement to anyone who believes that shooting that .6" group (in the described conditons) is anything more than something imagined. Next thing I know folks will be telling me that Texan's never exaggerate the truth a little.

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#1138002 - 02/03/09 08:39 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Nikonut]
bigboar Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 65
Loc: ontario
In the lower power range (1-4, 1.5-6, 2.5-8), would anyone pick a Nikon over a Leupold. Are the optics as good and are durability similar. I'm new to this and have several Leupolds for hunting/target shooting but have never used a Nikon. There seems to be a lack of interest in Leupold on this site. Lets keep it polite, no brand wars, just looking for some input. Thanks.BB

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#1138003 - 02/03/09 09:36 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: bigboar]
kymailman98 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 2755
Loc: Western Kentucky
I wanted one, cause of the camo pattern matching up with my rifle. But, I don't like fancy scopes on a calling rifle. I want a plain duplex reticle, with nothing else. I don't even like AO's on a scope, but that's a necessary evil on a higher powered scope. I hope Nikon does the smart thing, and offer it with the Nikoplex reticle. I bet they will sell better, if they do.

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#1138004 - 02/03/09 10:32 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: kymailman98]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
bigboar, I really like my 2.5-8X Leupold, but Nikon's Monarch Gold 1.5-6X, with the 30mm tube definitely has my attention. I have no reason to think it wouldn't be every bit as good as my Leupolds.

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#1138005 - 02/03/09 10:49 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: kymailman98]
bigdummy30 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 201
Loc: md.
Quote:

I wanted one, cause of the camo pattern matching up with my rifle. But, I don't like fancy scopes on a calling rifle. I want a plain duplex reticle, with nothing else. I don't even like AO's on a scope, but that's a necessary evil on a higher powered scope. I hope Nikon does the smart thing, and offer it with the Nikoplex reticle. I bet they will sell better, if they do.


x's 2

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#1138006 - 02/03/09 10:50 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: bigboar]
Evil_Lurker Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/30/05
Posts: 6721
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

In the lower power range (1-4, 1.5-6, 2.5-8), would anyone pick a Nikon over a Leupold.




I've got 2 Nikon 3-9 Buckmasters, a 4-12 Monarch and a Vari-X II 3-9 (which is 30 years old).
The Buckmasters are close to the Leupold and the
Monarch is nicer. For a varmint rifle, the Buckmasters are plenty good.

Quote:

There seems to be a lack of interest in Leupold on this site.




Actually, Leupold gets recommended on this site a lot. I've never seen any Leupold bashing. Nikon's giving them some heavy competition on price/performance, from what I've seen.
_________________________
Let's keep this a nice site where we help the ignorant.

IdBob: You will be missed, my friend.

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#1138007 - 02/04/09 10:10 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Evil_Lurker]
bigboar Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 65
Loc: ontario
Thanks for the input on the Nikons, I may give them a try for my next scope purchase. Other guys I hunt with have had trouble using another well known brand (shifting point of impact, fogging etc.)so I don't want to try anything without some assurance of quality. The only trouble I had with a Leupold was after I had put over 10,000 rounds through the rifle it was on and they fixed that for free. Again thanks.

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#1138008 - 02/04/09 10:37 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: bigboar]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
All my rifles wear Leupolds, Big Boar.

I also would give another quality manufacturer a chance, especially if they had something I liked.

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#1138009 - 02/04/09 10:41 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
rockinbbar Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 10218
Loc: TX
Quote:

All my rifles wear Leupolds, Big Boar.

I also would give another quality manufacturer a chance, especially if they had something I liked.




I second that...

I'm sporting Leopolds on every one of our rifles, but would try something else, given the chance.
_________________________
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#1138010 - 02/04/09 11:35 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: rockinbbar]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
Just a suggestion for those that want to try something new. The top of the line Vortex scopes (Viper) are pretty darn nice. I'm running a 4-12X Viper on my RRA AR-15 right now and I like it a lot. I would like a little lower power on the low end, but for now it will do. I sure can't complain about the clarity/brightness of the scope, or the no hassle warranty though.
Link:
http://www.vortexoptics.com/riflescopes

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#1138011 - 02/05/09 11:56 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Ursus21]
juliang Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 167
Loc: Murfreesboro, Tennessee
My intial reaction was like many, a Buckmaster in cammo with the honeycomb. The reticle I guess is the big innovation, and it throws us all for a loop ( no pun intended actually). Without trying the scope, or at least looking through it, difficult to say if it is good or not. We should certainly not dismiss it just because it is different, IMHO. Coyotes in general appear quickly and leave just as quickly in TN. The whole speed aiming with the ring could be just what is required. This has been developed in part by somebody who has called more coyotes than a lot of us put together. I would certainly be anxious to look through one in real life. Having looked through one, we could make a more accurate decision on whether it will work for the application.
_________________________
The English Redneck

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#1138012 - 02/05/09 01:32 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: juliang]
MartyCA Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 77
Loc: Kern County, CA
I live and shoot in one of the windiest passes in California. Just ask the wind turbine people. They've put up hundreds of them. (I wish they'd shut those big fans off so things would calm down around here.;)). As a result, my kids got me one of those Kestrel 1000 wind meters. I had made plans for a hunting trip and needed to check my zero so I headed to the local range. It was windy but what the heck? I had a new gizmo to play with. When I got to the range I fired up the gizmo and it said the wind was currently at 18 mph. As I set up my stuff, it kept recording wind speeds. When I was ready to finally sit down and shoot, the gizmo said the wind was currently 13 mph, with a max gust at 24 mph and an overall average of 21 mph. The wind was blowing right-to-left, an honest 90 degree crosswind. Savage .223, 36 gr. Varmint Grenades, 3300fps,range of 100 yards. The first shot was 3.25" left of the bull. Five shots were fired and caliper measured as a 1.87" group with the group roughly centered at 3.43" left of the bull. I accept the standard of a 4" kill zone for a coyote so if I aim 3" to the right I have roughly 2" of "slop" to work with. Not ideal, but good enough for government work. And now I have to take two aspirin and lie down. Every time I think, my head hurts.

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#1138013 - 02/07/09 12:52 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: MartyCA]
sscoyote Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 11/28/02
Posts: 2492
Loc: pueblo, co
Be nice to find out just how big that upper circle is. The reticle has rangefinding written all over it..for the few that might be interested. I guess we'll just have to wait until the catalog comes out to see the specs on it.

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#1138014 - 02/07/09 12:07 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Nikonut]
Gary_Roberson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Menard, TX, USA
Let me further explain how I shot the rifle in with the Nikon Coyote scope. First, let me say that I shot a .3" group with this rifle and ammo with no wind on this same 100 yard range. I cheated in that I use one of the Colwell Lead Sleds. When I shot with this new scope, I cheated again. I drew a 3" circle with horizontal and vertical lines so that the lines on the target would would match what I was seeing through my scope. I did this to help me shoot for precision on the bench. I should have given all of these details from the very beginning.
I just returned from the hunt with Nikon, Savage, Mossy Oak and Burnham Brothers where I had a chance to actually put the scope in a hunting situation. We had a slower hunt than what I wanted but were able to kill 20 dogs. I did not test the scope at any distance past 100 yards as all of the coyotes that I shot were within 80.
I had the 3-9x40 set at 5x when making the call and had no problem making any of the shots including a full frontal. I feel that the scope reduced target acquisition time which is what I attempted to do when we started on this project. I did not have an opportunity to take a running shot so I cannot tell anything about that. If I was going to shoot at a coyote's eye, this is not the reticle that I would choose. I would want a fine crosshair for the delicate work but if I can keep my bullet in a 3" circle on the mid shoulder area of a coyote, I will generally get him down.
I hope this explains a few things as I did not mean to upset anyone.
Adios,
Gary

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#1138015 - 02/07/09 12:47 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Gary_Roberson]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Thanks for the update, Gary.

So am I to conclude the top circle in the reticle is a 3 MOA circle?

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#1138016 - 02/07/09 12:58 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Gary_Roberson]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
Gary, the additional information does make your claims a little more believable. I do have few other questions though. One what type of rifle were you using that shot in the .3's? Second how many shots were in your group. Lastly, how do you account for the variables of the wind between 0 and a 100 yards. I'm being serious, perhaps the wind blows differently out there, but I have yet to see a consistant 20 mph wind out here. It can vary a lot in fact in the short amount of time it takes to sight in. Anyway, if you can consistantly shoot groups like that in wind like that I am truly humbled and amazed. One thing I do completely believe though, is that reticle is probably very good for killing coyotes under 100 yards, but one that I'm not sure I could ever get used to.

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#1138017 - 02/07/09 05:24 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Ursus21]
BUTCHER45 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 705
Loc: Oregon
Why is a .6 inch group so difficult to believe?

I have shot a .45 inch, 3 shot group off of my steady stix at 50 yards with my .454 air rifle, using a 4X scope, and regularly shoot under an inch. This is with a trajectory that is far worse than a centerfire rifle.

So .6 at 100 yards using a powderburner and a high power scope doesn't seem like to much of a stretch to me, especially considering how he set up the target.
_________________________
BUTCHER45
"Treat me good, and I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, and I'll treat you worse." Sonny Barger
"When an animal dies quick there is no further argument." Veral Smith

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#1138018 - 02/08/09 07:55 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: BUTCHER45]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Gary,

I am not sure if the "adios" in your last post meant you are done with this thread or not.

But I would appreciate it if you would hear me out regarding additional feedback on the reticle.

I like the idea of the speed circles. I really do. But I am still advocating a center aiming dot. Even with a dot, I think most hunters would use the circles as you had intended from 0 to 75 yards. At these distances the dot is not needed, especially on a moving dog. I think the dot would not be an impediment to the circle, because as you have suggested, at this these distances on a quickly moving animal you are basically shooting at "fur." I think Ursus agrees with this as well (sorry if I am putting words in your mouth Ursus).

Now to include the dot would be giving hunters the best of both worlds. We would have the speed of the circle, and the precision of the dot. I have said this before, but there are many hunters who would not utilize the lower circles. The target dot would benefit these guys who want to shoot dogs at further distances. The dot would also benefit hunters who want to shoot smaller animals such as fox. Now, I know the purpose of the smaller circles. But my experiences as a bowhunter having used multiple pins for varying distances tells me that sometimes in the heat of the moment all those pins can get awfully confusing. Yes, they are nice to fall back on when you have the time. But with a quickly appearing or moving animal it is good to have ONE good aiming point that you can always rely on.

In the next year or two I will be buying my boys their own calling rifles (Mrs. 49 doesn't know this yet). Whether I get the Savage Predator or the Remington, I would consider this scope for them if it had an aiming point. The reason being, other than hunting, is that I want to be able to take them target shooting. A target dot would enable me to do this.

I think you and Nikon are on to something here. As you may have read, I had been conversing with Nikon a bit via email. Nikon is unwilling to add a dot as well. But I think where Nikon is missing the point here is that in order to sell scopes, they have to give people what they WANT, and not just what they think is best.

I don't have a scope yet for my R-15. I am considering a 2x7. But I would consider the Nikon coyote scope if it had an aiming dot, even though my first choice isn't a 3x9 power. As someone mentioned above, the camo matches the rifle, and I like the ARD feature.

Again, don't take my post as being critical. I think you guys are doing a great job, and kudos to Nikon for offering something to hunters that no other manufacturers have done. The reason I am still here is that I like your concept and have an interest in it.

You may not like what I have had to say, Gary. My opinions are nothing other than those of a 44 year old guy who has been hunting since he was 11 years old.

Have a good day.

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#1138019 - 02/08/09 04:43 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
Ursus21 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 2419
Loc: Montana
4949shooter, just so you know I completely agree.

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#1138020 - 02/08/09 05:21 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Ursus21]
bigdummy30 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 201
Loc: md.
does anybody else notice the "surface area" you see when looking through a nikon???....i went the other day to compare nikons and leupolds side by side (although it was in a store) ...the clarity was there for both but the one thing that will probably make me buy ANOTHER leupold for my R-15 ,as much as i want one with matching camo, is the fact that when i look through them, the "thick " ring of the nikon eyepiece seems to make the sight picture smaller than that of the similar powered leupolds....is it just me ???/....i DO shoot with my left eye when im right eye dominate....

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#1138021 - 02/08/09 05:57 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: bigdummy30]
dimecovers3 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 275
Loc: N.C.
If you scroll down a bit in this link to the two new March scopes you will see the technological breakthrough that hopefully will filter down to all premium hunting scopes in the future. The US military seems to think so.

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/?s=march
_________________________
Steve

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#1138022 - 02/10/09 10:42 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: dimecovers3]
BruceWilliams Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 184
Loc: west central texas
Gary is probably one of the nicest, most honest, and down to earth guy you would ever meet and a good friend. Whatever he said happened, it happened. Gary I look forward to seeing it, I will be heading through Menard next week for a hunt,see you then. Hmmm wonder why he does't post very much.....probably the same reason why I don't either.

Bruce

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#1138023 - 02/11/09 09:29 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: BruceWilliams]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Quote:

Gary is probably one of the nicest, most honest, and down to earth guy you would ever meet and a good friend. Whatever he said happened, it happened. Gary I look forward to seeing it, I will be heading through Menard next week for a hunt,see you then. Hmmm wonder why he does't post very much.....probably the same reason why I don't either.

Bruce



Bruce,

I don't know Gary but I am sure he is a super nice guy as you say he is.

Some of us are enthusiastic about the prospect of a scope intended specifically for predator hunting. We are just trying to help improve upon a good idea.

Thank you.

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#1138024 - 02/11/09 11:36 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
BruceWilliams Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 184
Loc: west central texas
Your right. Constructive critisism is good like Barry said, but some of the remarks made and questioning Gary's facts? That sure doesn't sound like "improving upon a good idea," or it sure didn't to me. Maybe I just would go about it a different way.

Bruce

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#1138025 - 02/11/09 02:54 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: BruceWilliams]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Some did question Gary's facts I agree.

These are the hazards of posting on the internet. However, the questions posed to Gary induced him to explain himself, which I think is beneficial to all who have an interest.

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#1138026 - 06/25/09 08:14 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
burns32000 Offline
New Member

Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 1
Loc: New York
Finally received my 4-16 last week. Excited to get to sight it in this weekend. It is going to be a welcome compliment to my R-15 with Burris scope mount.

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#1138027 - 06/26/09 06:16 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: burns32000]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Quote:

Finally received my 4-16 last week. Excited to get to sight it in this weekend. It is going to be a welcome compliment to my R-15 with Burris scope mount.



Cool. Let us know how you like it!

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#1138028 - 06/28/09 01:32 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
rizzo Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 293
Loc: Arizona's High Desert
I saw these scopes in an ad in PX and literally said out loud "I am buying one of these!" My wife just rolled her eyes (of course!) but I was determined. The very next week I had the chance to hold them and look through them at the NRA Convention in Phoenix. They were very cool looking with the camo job and looked super sharp, and I was really excited about the drop compensation for 55gr .223, since that is the round I shoot. Then I realized that I will never engage a coyote at 400 yards. Or even 200 yards. [beeep] I rarely engage one past 100 yards. And to be honest, the thing that drew me to it the most was the ARD on the front - which, after a little research, I found out I could get for my existing scope. In fact, I just posted a thread on it HERE.

So after all that excitement initially, I'll say that I don't want one anymore. If I was buying a new rig, sure, I'd probably try it out. But I have to agree with the other posts above about the aiming reticle - I want accurate shots, not just "fur" shots.
_________________________
I AM A SURVIVOR of a Coyote in my lap

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#1138029 - 06/28/09 03:09 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: rizzo]
Evil_Lurker Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/30/05
Posts: 6721
Loc: Oregon
I've had one of these for a couple of years. I bought an ARD from Midway and put on it.
That's pretty much the same scope with a Niko-Plex reticle, plus some change back.
I'm just sayin.

Buckmaster 3-9 Realtree Camo
_________________________
Let's keep this a nice site where we help the ignorant.

IdBob: You will be missed, my friend.

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#1138030 - 06/28/09 12:30 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Evil_Lurker]
denjahn Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 721
Loc: Minnesota
I don't see many posts on here from guys other than the topic starter who have actually used this scope.So if it is OK I will try to give you my analysis of the scope as I do own one.

I purchased a Remington Model 7 Predator in .17 Fireball. I wasn't necessarily happy with the fact it only came in Camo but I really liked the feel of this particular configuration so I decided to buy it anyway. The next problem was the problem of finding a matching scope since I didn't really want to put a black scope on a camo gun.

After a long search I came up with a grand total of (1) scope that was available in Mossy Oak Brush and that was the Nikon Coyote scope. I ordered the scope and since it was new, it was backordered for about 3 weeks.

Now that I have the scope, have it mounted on the gun and have shot several boxes of shells through it(None at Coyotes due to the time of the year) I will say that I really believe what several have stated that there is a need for either a center dot or a set of very fine center crosshairs.


I will start out by saying that I do see an advantage in having the circle for target acquisition and that I have found it nice to have an unobstructed view of the object when aiming at it, there is a great deal more involved in the initial sighting in of the rifle because there is no center reference to use when adjusting the windage and elevation adjustments.

What I mean is I have a target with a 1 inch bullseye and the circle at 100 yards is larger than that so you end up trying to center a circle inside another circle and that makes it difficult to focus on when trying to hit the dead center of the target. And then multiply that by the number of shots in your group. Basically you almost need to make a center bullseye the exact size that the circle of the reticle ends up being at the particular distance. Meaning if you sight in at 50,100,200 and 300 yards you would need multiple sized bullseyes to get the most accurate groups with this reticle.

Now, I have to confess that I don't shoot every day and that I am by no means an accomplished marksman.But then again if they are trying to sell a bunch of these scopes then my guess is that I do fit into their target market.

In closing I do see the rationale behind the idea and do feel it has merit, but without some sort of reference point in the middle of the scope I do not believe the majority of the people who but these scopes will be able to get the most out of their rifles with this design as is.

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#1138031 - 06/28/09 02:16 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: denjahn]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
The above posts bring up a great point.....give consumers what they want.

I bet Nikon would sell a lot of scopes if they offered the coyote special in the current reticle AND a standard type crosshair, or variation of the circle with a crosshair or dot included.

There are different strokes for different folks, and to offer both would mean Nikon sells more scopes and makes more profit.

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#1138032 - 06/28/09 10:59 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
denjahn Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 721
Loc: Minnesota
Quote:

The above posts bring up a great point.....give consumers what they want.

I bet Nikon would sell a lot of scopes if they offered the coyote special in the current reticle AND a standard type crosshair, or variation of the circle with a crosshair or dot included.

There are different strokes for different folks, and to offer both would mean Nikon sells more scopes and makes more profit.




IMHO they would have a winner with that one tweak.
_________________________
Have you exchanged a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?

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#1138033 - 06/29/09 03:59 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: denjahn]
rizzo Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 293
Loc: Arizona's High Desert
I would buy one if they would change that aiming reticle. I think we all agree on that point - it's a great looking and functional scope, just needs one little tweak . . . . are you reading this Nikon guys?
_________________________
I AM A SURVIVOR of a Coyote in my lap

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#1138034 - 07/01/09 08:54 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: rizzo]
J. Holly Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 2751
Loc: Stillwater, OK.
Back many years ago, I was using a Redfield LE scope. It had a twin circle reticle. I was making consistant groupings with this rifle and loved the concept, just not for fur.

That being said, on a coyote gun, I need crosshairs. On a plinking or a man gun, the circle reticle is what I prefer. Everyone has different preferences.
_________________________
The winds of change are just more hot air.

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#1138035 - 07/04/09 01:43 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Ursus21]
jeffbauerjr1 Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/31/09
Posts: 11
Loc: IA
I'm wondering why those of you who hunt in tight cover with typically close shots are even using centerfire rifles. Seems to me the best choice would be a shotgun or if nothing else a high power equipped with a red dot or iron sights...

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#1138036 - 07/05/09 06:54 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: jeffbauerjr1]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Because even though I hunt in thick woods, there are shooting lanes where I can take a longer shot if need be. This is where I hunt in PA. In Jersey I have to use a shotgun by law.

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#1138037 - 07/05/09 07:13 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
Pruson Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 11/30/02
Posts: 3166
Loc: Hanover County, VA
If they placed a German #4 Dot in the center of the main circle, which like the Leupolds covers 9/10ths of an inch at 100 yards. I would buy two of them today.
_________________________
Remember, they normally wake up hungry, be there to serve them dinner.

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#1138038 - 07/05/09 07:56 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Pruson]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
I emailed Jon LaCorte, Product Marketing Manager for Nikon, a while back when this thread first got underway.

He said an aiming dot would have required etched glass, and would have driven up the cost too much.

Unfortunately...

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#1138039 - 07/08/09 07:24 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
denjahn Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 721
Loc: Minnesota
I just got the latest issue of Predator Extreme Mag in the mail yesterday and Nikon had a big ad for this scope in there and they also had this scope on 3 rifles they tested.

I would think soon we would start to see more guys try this scope out and give their opinion.
_________________________
Have you exchanged a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?

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#1338979 - 07/31/09 08:13 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Ursus21]
Trap935 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 177
Loc: PA
I am trying to get into predator hunting. Might I say that a 3 power scope set on low should be more than a low enough setting. I see where guys talked about predators 10 feet away and need a 1 power. Please don't take this the wrong way. But if you can't hit a pop can at 10 feet by just pointing your barrel at it,you need more than a scope on your gun.You should be able to hit a paper plate at 20 feet just by pointing the barrel again at it. Also I read many will take 2 guns in to the field with them. One be a shotgun. Again I don't see the need for under a 3 power scope. Yes. I am new to predator hunting but I am not new being around guns and scope.


Edited by Trap935 (07/31/09 08:15 PM)

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#1339990 - 08/02/09 06:59 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Trap935]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Everybody has different needs based on their own hunting and shooting experiences.

The point shooting you speak of is a shooting discipline based on iron sights, and was not intended for a scoped rifle. If it works for you that's great, but it won't work for everyone.

Also, there are a lot of great hunters out there who take two guns afield. It's just a matter of personal preference.

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#1340523 - 08/02/09 09:51 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: 4949shooter]
Trap935 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 177
Loc: PA
Why don't people use see thru scope mounts then if they have to use some kind of sight to shoot that close?

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#1340527 - 08/02/09 09:56 PM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Trap935]
venatic Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 6996
Loc: In the right lane
Because they put your scope way too high for a good cheek weld on the stock and and make it uncomfortable to shoot with the scope.Personally most of my scopes start at 4X and I have not had any problems.
_________________________
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."

Jack O'Connor 1963


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#1340660 - 08/03/09 12:14 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: venatic]
Trap935 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 177
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: venatic
Because they put your scope way too high for a good cheek weld on the stock and and make it uncomfortable to shoot with the scope.Personally most of my scopes start at 4X and I have not had any problems.


Yes, I know about the cheek with see thru mounts. I guess for now everyone has to live with what is out there or adapt to new ways of close range shooting without useing a scope. Are lazer sites legal for any states?

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#1340704 - 08/03/09 02:14 AM Re: Nikon Coyote Scope [Re: Trap935]
Evil_Lurker Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/30/05
Posts: 6721
Loc: Oregon
If you want a short-range sight, buy some rings with Picatinny rail on top and mount a little red dot. That setup is super effective.

Something like this:


Burris FastFire

Mounted using this:

Burris top ring half

That should handle anything inside 50 yards or so.
_________________________
Let's keep this a nice site where we help the ignorant.

IdBob: You will be missed, my friend.

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