A brush with the law.

Except for the stupid azz nurse, this is a good story and I'm glad it all turned out well.

In my limited run-ins with the law, no cop has ever been rude to me. I figure it's their job to ask questions and have no issue with that.
 
I think caution on all sides in a good thing. What if someone had called 911 before VA Tech or Columbine, etc.? I'M NOT SIDING WITH THE GOV'T HERE, but complacency on the part of everyday citizens has created a nation that just doesn't want to get involved, and many bad things that happen in this world could be prevented w/a bit of intervention by John Q. Public...cautious, intelligent intervention. It would be nice to say, in hind site, that the nurse maybe could have asked the lady if she had a permit to carry that weapon, and the situation should have been resolved right there. But due to recent public tragedies, people in public places have been trained to respond as she did due to liability and safety concerns. The cops have a tough enuf job, and questioned a bit as they should till they were comfortable w/ her, then wished her good day and moved on with their day. Look at how many times a citizen noticed something but did nothing and it turned ugly later. Look at how any times cops may have stopped a perp, didn't recognize the threat or persons true identity and intentions and a tragedy occurred anyhow - these guys and gals can't be mind readers all the time!!! But they still get up, strap on the weapon and the badge, the kevlar and mental issues that goes with the job, and they go out and do it anyhow.

Sounds like a basic security check issue at a hospital, and everything was in order, so everyone moved on with their day. Good on all IMHO. The doctor must really know his patient to be walking in the room giggling like that!
 
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Gary's right.

If during an INITIAL interview where police have reason to ask basic, simple questions to find out facts about an unknown situation, you are way better off to communicate with the police so the red-flags will come down.

Police have a "radar" tuned to 'something's not right', & if you skirt the questions, get wise with the officer, or try & lawyer-up, those redflags become loud ringing bells, & you can rest assured that they WILL get to the bottom of it.

As stated before, if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear.


There's a time to stand on your rights, but initial contact is probably not one of them.

Barry
 
If the average cop does their job the way a certain one did it last January 3rd then any pay above $1.50 a year is way too much. The only thing that he got right was that the guy hit me. Every thing else was wrong.

If I was to do it over there would have been a complient filed about it as well as one against the driver for filing a false police report.
 
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I still find this very disturbing that in a 'free society' we owe the police an answer, even if we are not doing anything wrong. Just because they asked. If we don't give the right answer, they have the right to detain us or take us 'downtown'. Where/when/how did we give them this authority?

Personally, I do not give cops a hard time because I appreciate the job they do for us. I will not be breaking any laws (knowingly) so I'm really not worried but I still wonder, how did we allow ourselves to get to this level of subservience?
 
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Where/when/how did we give them this authority?



A bit of thread drift here. I don't know the answer, but I am glad we did give them the authority. Back when I was an LEO, I arrested a lot of folks who were subsequently convicted based upon probable cause to stop and initiate an interview...followed by the "wrong" answers.
 
Okay, this is getting a bit out there about what the police can and cannot do.

Any Law Enforcement Officer can make a " Social Contact" at any time of his/her shift while on duty. Any questions they ask during this Social Contact do not have to be answered. You can quietly walk away and that is the end of it.

Any LEO that has "Probable Cause or Reasonable Suspicion" that a crime has been committed, is about to be committed, or is in the process of being committed, can act. To "Act" is to contact the individual or group of individuals that the Officer believes or suspects, is somehow involved in the act of alledged crime.

There are certain crimes that the Officer cannot act on other than to interview and identify the subject if the crime did not happen in the Officers presence. Those are generally petty crimes and always vary in different states.

Other Felony crimes ie: Rape, Burglary, Arson, Assault, on and on, the Officer can take into custody a person if he or she has probable cause to believe that individual or individuals committed the crime(s) or is somehow involved in the crime.

If you happen to be contacted by an Officer on the street and they ask how your day is going, you can respond if you wish. You can also flip them off and tell them to go to Hail if you wish. It's a SOCIAL CONTACT and you are not required to answer.

If you are detained as a suspect in a crime and your freedom of movement is limited chances are, you are now incustody. If you are asked questions about that crime then you can either spill your guts or you can politely ask for an attorney. If you spill your guts and have not been mirandized first (you know the part about, You have the right to remain silent?) then in most cases, anything you stated prior to your miranda warnings are not adimisable in court.

Most of us will know when we are in custody, usually you are wearing some really nice shiney braclets and stuffed into the back of a large 4 door sedan with lights on top and your very own windshield.

So it's not the end of the world if the nice neighborhood Police Officer stops by your house while on patrol and says "Hi, how are you today" Telling him or her to F off is not going to get you the Block Watch Catptains position any time soon.
 
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Man, Cops have a job that I for one couldn't do...atleast not with out going to jail myself, and they do it for D@#K pay. So what if he asks a question or two, if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about. Answer the dang questions and when he is done with you,thank him for the job he does and carry on. This theory and idea that cops are out to put innocent law abiding people in jail or even hassle, [beeep] me off.

Chupa


I would like to respectfully disagree with you sir . I think there are cops out there that do hassle innocent people .
I was stopped last year by one of these cops . I was pulled over on my way home from work for a license plate light not working . My truck has two license plate lights , only one of them was not working . The plate on my truck is very easy to see in the dark even with only one of these lights working ! I was not speeding or drinking or doing anything wrong at all ! Just going home from work . The cop asked a bunch of questions , checked my registration , license and insurance , then wrote me a ticket for the light being out !(the guy seemed to have a real attitude too , like he was mad about something .) That is a hassle for no reason ! There are real criminals out there , Drug dealers , rapists ,murders , drunk drivers , ect . Why hassle a plain old working guy over a light bulb ? Because he can get away with it ? That's what I think ! That particular incident caused me to lose most of the respect for cops that I once had .
 
Brian, Brian, Brian....You were never a cop, but that's okay. I won't hold that against you.

Now, you were stopped for defective vehicle equipment. It's perfectly legal to make that stop. Your license, reg and insurance was requested and checked. You got a Notice of Infraction oh well, it happens. You as an operator of any motorized vehicle are required to maintain said vehicle and make certain that said vehicle is in proper working order at all times while being operated on any public roadway.

Okay now, here is the deal, you want rapist's, murderers, drug dealers caught right? How many of those arrests do you think come from a simple traffic stop on a vehicle with a defective light or failure to signal? Well, I can tell you from 24 years of on the street duty that there is Waaaaaaaay more than you could ever imagine. Most bad guys get caught driving vehicles after having committed crimes or avoiding a warrant for their arrest. I can't begin to count the number of bad guys I put in jail due to that simple license plate light not working.

You can believe what you want but it is sooo true. Sounds to me that the Officer was doing his job. And you never know, that next traffic stop that Officer makes for a defective light could be the guy that just raped your little sister.
 
Wasn't Timothy McVeigh taken into custody on a traffic violation? I don't remember the details but I think that is right.....or maybe it was one of his cronies, but none the less.

And I'm also sick of the "Well I get stopped and hassled by cops all the time!" phrase as well. The root words of that phrase are "All the time" HMMMMMMM makes me wonder. I stand by this, if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about.

If you go into an encounter with an officer of the law with an attitude, then you get what you deserve...and it is deserved. Show a little gratitude and grow up.

Chupa
 
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Hmm, my comments seem to have stirred a few folks up. Let me clarify a little bit. I'm always as respectful as possible to an officer. I don't want his job, and he doens't get paid enough. He can't actually prevent a crime without getting himself in a heap of trouble because any decent public defender can provide enough doubt to get him off. No one can see into the future.

I wouldn't be offended that the nurse called the cops. If the girl was a lunny, what was the nurse going to do about it? I wouldn't be upset about having for officers waiting on me. If I were one of them, I sure wouldn't go in alone. I would be offended if an officer had to ask, in this day and age, why a lady was carying a sidearm. That's just a stupid question to ask. It's none of his buisness, and he knows it. Thus I would politely say "because I can"

If you are going to play the "I know my rights" card, then you had better really know your rights, and you better be ready for a long drawn out battle. In the end, you can take the cop who's going to teach you a lesson, and make him wish he'd never even heard of being an LEO, but it's going to be a long hard road. Besides that, he has plenty of days where he already feels that way, so what's the point?

A good cop is good at asking questions and reading people. Whether I'm up to no good or not, if I don't give him an answer then there's not a lot that he can go on. He either has to have a warrent, or my permission to do much of anything. If I'm running drugs, and I'm dumb enough to have it in plain sight, then I'm stupid and I'm going to jail whether I say anything or not. If I'm stupid enough to have it in the trunk, and tick the officer off, then he can detain me long enough for a K9 unit to show up, then I'm going to jail. If I have it in a locked container in my trunk, then the cop is screwed without a search warrent. Tell me that doesn't suck.

Brian's case is a good one. The law doesn't say that you have to have two functioning lights on your liscense plate. It says that you have to have A liscense plate light. It doesn't even say that it has to be shining light on the plate. It just has to be there, and be on. The cop can pull you over and let you know that you have one light that's burned out. That's it. Now if the officer approaches the window, and the guy is a criminal and a moron, then yeah, he's probably going to jail. I'm sure it happens a lot, and I'm glad it does. If the guy has half a brain, and keeps his mouth shut, then he's probably going to go right on down the road. It also goes to show just how easy it is for a bad apple to really mess things up for a regular person. If you give the officer a "bad vibe" then he knows what kinds of questions to ask that are vague enough to get the permission that he needs to do what he wants. Before you know it, he's going through your care with 3 other officers and there's nothing you can do about it because you opened your mouth. Next thing you know, he finds a joint that one of your 17 year old son's basket ball buddies dropped in the car by mistake last weekend, and now you have to answer for it.

Last time I was stopped, I was adimitedly speeding. Just had a big fight with my wife, and I was driving a little to fast on an strech of road that I wasn't real familiar with. I came around a curve, and all of the sudden I was in a small town with a deputy sitting right there in a drive way. I saw him pull out in my rear view, so I found a safe place to pull off the road and get us both out of traffic, and I waited on him to catch up to me. We spoke, he thanked me for stopping and waiting on him, he checked my info, let me know that one of my liscenes plate lights was burned out, and that my plates would be expiring soon. We thanked each other, and we were both on our way. I didn't give him permission to search or do anything, and I was polite and curtious so he didn't ask for it. He noticed my 9 month old pointer (named Kimber) in the cab, but didn't notice the 1911 sitting between her and I. He didn't notice the empty holster on my hip (under my shirt) when he was showing me the burned out light, and he didn't notice the spare mag printing in my left front pocket. All because I stopped and waited on him.

Problem with things today is that we expect someone else to fix the problems for us. I'm normally a pretty peacefull guy, but I promise you one thing. If a guy raped my sister, you won't be pulling him over for any kind of traffic violation. But that's a completely different thread.


Mark
 
I have my ccp and as far as I'm concerned I only person that needs to know why and or what my intentions are is the Judge that signed and approved the permit. After that unless I use my gun is used in a confrontation it's know ones concern but mine why I carry. I should only asked if I have a permit. Then checked out and sent me on my way. Anything more is an evasion of my privacy because I’ve already explained myself to the judge. Now if I’m not following the rules then I should be questioned. A question in a friendly conversation between the police and I might be ok after they’ve checked me out. But I should not feel as if it is part of my shake down so to speak. Anyway just my two cents Chris,
 
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Forget all this silliness, my question would be why does it take FOUR officers to handle this situation?




Because 4 of my buddies lost their lives to whack jobs with guns and several other of my friends were critically wounded when one guy pulled a gun and started shooting. That's why. All cops, all good people, just doing their jobs to protect the citizens they worked for.

GEEZE, Some of you guys think, oh christ, you would never understand if you haven't ever been there and obviously not many have been.

Talk your talk, most of you don't have a friggin clue. There is so much BS, poor judgement and misinformation out there that it's unbelievable. Don't second guess why Cops do what they do to protect each other and the citizens they work for /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif Just be thankful they are there to do the job.
 
I would like to add one more thing. Many people carry guns for one reason or the other. Only maybe 1 percent of those that carry will ever use it for much more than scaring away an azzwad. Maybe 1-10th of 1 percent have the where abouts to actually shoot someone and do it in a justifiable manner.

Once you shoot someone your life will change forever. Just because you carry a gun does not make you a gunfighter.

I don't care how many books you read or how many bullets you can place in the X ring. To be involved in a gun fight is not fun, your stress meter goes straight to the top. I've been where the bullets were flying and stared down that 12 gauge barrel it's a real uneasy feeling. It's almost sureal when you go into someones home and have a gun pointed at you not knowing if you are going home or not that night. When that happened to me I was the only one that changed that night. Keeping those memories stashed away from your wife and family is even harder to do. You know that you don't want your wife to worry about just how bad things can get out there, so you don't tell.
 
I understand where you are coming from FAL, assuming you are an officer, then that would make you a better man than I because I simply dont have the patients to be one! There is no way I could put up with all the political B.S. and the scum the police have to deal with day in and day out! No, I was just wondering why it took so many officers to deal with a non confrontational situation, thats all.
 
So I get a gun pulled on me because "he thought I was going too fast."

Two years ago, I get pulled over at 1am taking my then 2 year old daughter on a car ride to get her to sleep (in Dallas, cars on the road 24 hrs/day). I got tailgated by a cop for about a block, signaled to turn, got pulled over. Again, "I thought you were going a little fast." No radar or anything. Checks my license, insurance, asks me what I was doing, asked me where I was going "home, two blocks that way", asked me who I worked for, handed me back my documents, walks away and leaves. No "slow down", "this is a warning", "thanks" "go to [beeep]" or anything.

So if someone steps into my front yard at night and I put a 30-06 slug in their chest, that's ok because "I thought" this person was going to kick down my front door, rape and kill me. If it's defensible for police, should apply to the homeowner. Nevermind that it was a girl scout going for her next merit badge trying to get a cat out of a tree.

On the bright side, when my wife's car got stolen three months ago, they were so busy that it only took 5 hours for someone to show up to file a report so On-Star could be activated to try and locate the vehicle. That's ok because it's only my property and money, pulling over folks and pointing guns at them because some cowboy thinks they might be driving too fast, well that's more important.

These fishing trips are getting out of hand.
 
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As I sit here and read this post, I can't but laugh. I have worked the streets for five years now and Falfire I am on your side BUDDY !!!! It seems to me that everyone tends to be upset for being stopped or asked a few simple questions. Nobody here has a clue what a Officer goes through a dailey basis unless you have experienced it yourself. As it was said earlier, most criminals are caught on minor traffic stops and I have found this to be a fact in my career as yet. A Officer that doesn't ask a lot of questions on a detail or traffic stop is not doing his job. By asking questions allows the Officer to assess the situation and look for anything that may be suspicious or alarming. I would have to say that nearly 60% of my arrests have come from a simple traffic stop. When I was a "rookie," so to speak I had a encouter that I will never forget. I was only out for a month as I had initiated a routine traffic stop for a simple stop sign violation. I approached the vehicle asking for a drivers license , registration and proof of insurance. I then simply told him why he was stopped and quickly went back to patrol car to write a citation. As I was writing the citation I noticed that the reverse lights on the vehicle had come on. At this time the vehicle slammed into my patrol car smashing the front end. To make a long story short, the driver was later found to be intoxicated and was arrested for DUI. The reason I tell this story is because if I had asked more questions and paid attention to the driver later realizing everytime he talked , he would look away. This taught me a valuable lesson and have since learned that it is much better to ask questions than put yourself in danger because you were careless. I have also learned that the ones that tend to belittle Officers usually have something to hide or have a skeleton in the closet , so to speak. Just remember, when you are sleeping at night in your cozey bed there is always a Officer out patrolling your neighborhood doing everyting he can to assure you are safe. I love my job and will always do my best to protect and serve regardless of what people think of the Law. I have a job to do and I take it very seriously. I hope all that feel that they have had a bad run in with the law , really look at the situation and ask yourself if the Officer was just doing his job. A Officer's #1 priority is Safety and if it takes asking questions to achieve this goal, then so be it.
 
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