Predator Masters using UBB.threads ™ Infopop Corporation.
PM Gear Moon & Weather

Welcome to the Predator Masters Forums
Be sure to visit the main Predator Master website at





PM Gear
PM Gear
PM Gear
The Official Predator Masters Search Engine
Search Predator Masters

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#1067608 - 09/23/08 10:56 AM The Second Amendment
Javafour Offline
PM senior

Registered: 02/13/05
Posts: 6186
Loc: Kirkland, WA
(Visit the NRA-ILA Second Amendment Center at:http://www.nraila.org/Issues/secondAmendment.aspx http://www.nraila.org )

The Second Amendment

On June 26, the Supreme Court ruled in District of Columbia v. Heller that the Second Amendment—"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"— protects a purely individual right, as do the First, Fourth and Ninth Amendments. "Nowhere else in the Constitution does a 'right' attributed to 'the people' refer to anything other than an individual right," the court said. "The term ['the people'] unambiguously refers to all members of the political community."

The court's 5-4 majority rejected the notion pushed by D.C. officials and gun control supporters in Heller —taken from the Kansas Supreme Court's decision in Salina v. Blaksley (1905)—that the amendment protects only a privilege to possess arms when serving in a militia. All nine justices rejected gun control supporters' alternate and mutually exclusive idea—invented by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit in U.S. v. Tot (1942)—that the amendment protects only a state power (a so-called "collective right") to maintain a militia.

Citing a previous decision by the court, recognizing that the right to arms is individually-held, the court noted, "As we said in United States v. Cruikshank (1876), '[t]his is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second Amendment declares that it shall not be infringed.'"

The court also declared that the Second Amendment protects "the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation," including "all instruments that constitute bearable arms." It said that people have the right to keep and bear handguns (the type of arm at issue in Heller), because "[T]he inherent right of self-defense has been central to the Second Amendment right. . . .Under any of the standards of scrutiny that we have applied to enumerated constitutional rights, banning from the home 'the most preferred firearm in the nation to 'keep' and use for protection of one's home and family,' would fail constitutional muster."

As demonstrated by the vast majority of research on the subject, the court's ruling is consistent with the Second Amendment's history and text, the statements and writings of the amendment's author, James Madison, and other statesmen of the founding period, and the writings of respected legal authorities of the 19th century. Constitutional scholar Stephen Halbrook has noted that there is no evidence that anyone associated with drafting, debating and ratifying the amendment considered it to protect anything other than an entirely individual right.

Madison, who introduced the Bill of Rights in Congress, said that the amendments "relate first to private rights." In The Federalist #46, he wrote that the federal government would not be able to tyrannize the people, "with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by [state] governments possessing their affections and confidence." In The Federalist #29, Alexander Hamilton wrote, "if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens."

Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, in his Commentaries on the Constitution (1833), still regarded as the standard treatise on the subject, wrote, "the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of the republic."

In U.S. v. Miller (1939), the most recent of the important Second Amendment-related Supreme Court cases prior to Heller, the court recognized, as it did in U.S. v. Cruikshank (noted above), that the right to arms is individually-held and not dependent upon militia service. Had the court believed the amendment protected only a militiaman's privilege or a state power, it would have rejected the case on the grounds that the defendants were neither actively-serving militiamen or states. As the Heller court noted, the Miller court never questioned the defendants' standing. It questioned only whether a short-barreled shotgun had "a reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia," which it described as private citizens "bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time."

As indicated in the Heller decision, the Supreme Court has always recognized that the Second Amendment protects, and was intended by the Framers to protect, a purely individual right of individuals to keep and bear arms useful for defense, hunting, training and all other legitimate purposes.

(From the NRA-ILA: http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=177 )

Firearms Fact Card, 2008
The Right to Keep and Bear Arms


The Second Amendment says:
"A well regulated Militia,
being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,
shall not be infringed."

The right to arms derives from the right of self-defense, and therefore is an individual right. Thomas Jefferson said, "No free man shall be debarred the use of arms." Patrick Henry said, "The great object is that every man be armed." Richard Henry Lee said, "To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms." Thomas Paine said, "[A]rms . . . discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe."

James Madison, who introduced the Bill of Rights in the House of Representatives, said its amendments "relate first to private rights." Sen. William Grayson said the amendments "altogether respected personal liberty." Tench Coxe said the Second Amendment protected the people's "right to keep and bear their private arms."

The Supreme Court recognized the right to arms as an individual right in U.S. v. Cruikshank (1876), Presser v. Illinois (1886), U.S. v. Miller (1939) and U.S. v. Verdugo-Urquidez (1990). In Cruikshank, the Court said the right existed before the Constitution.

Constitutional scholar Stephen P. Halbrook has found no historical evidence that the amendment was intended to protect a "collective right" of states to arm militias, or a "sophisticated collective right" to use arms only when serving in a militia. Richard Henry Lee said the militia are "the people themselves." George Mason said the "the whole people" are the militia. In U.S. v. Miller, the Supreme Court described the militia as "civilians, primarily, soldiers on occasion . . . a body of citizens. . . . bearing arms supplied by themselves."

The National Guard is subject to absolute federal control (Perpich v. Dept. of Defense, (1990)). When federalized, it is not part of the militia. At other times, it is the "organized militia." At all times, the "unorganized militia" consists of other able-bodied males of age and certain other citizens.

In U.S. v. Emerson (2001), the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit said the Second Amendment protects an individual right to arms, with "limited, narrowly tailored specific exceptions . . . not inconsistent with the right of Americans generally to individually keep and bear their private arms as historically understood in this country."

Recent Legislative and Judicial Issues

• BATFE Firearm Traces--"Gun control" supporters mischaracterize traces relative to gun bans, gun purchase limits, dealer restrictions and lawsuits against the gun industry. The Congressional Research Service warns that traces do not show how often specific types of guns are used in crimes, because traced guns are not representative of guns used to commit crimes, most guns used in violent crimes are not traced, and most traced guns have not been used in violent crimes.

• Firearm Trace Disclosure--NRA-supported federal legislation limits tracing information to law enforcement agencies conducting investigations. "Gun control" supporters want to misuse the information to sue the gun industry.

• Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives--NRA supports legislation to prevent BATFE from revoking firearms dealers' licenses for insignificant technical violations.

• D.C.'s Gun Bans--NRA supports repeal of D.C.'s ban on handguns, carrying firearms at home without a permit, and having guns in operable condition at home (which prevents their use for home protection). The Supreme Court will render a decision about the bans in 2008, in District of Columbia v. Heller.
• Castle Doctrine – Thirty-three states have laws protecting the right of self-defense, by removing a person's "duty to retreat" from anyplace he has a legal right to be. Of these, 20 prohibit criminals and their families from suing people who injure the criminals in self-defense.

• "Assault Weapons"--NRA opposes renewal of the Clinton Gun Ban, as well as expanded legislation that would ban all semi-automatic shotguns, detachable-magazine semi-automatic rifles, and pump-action rifles and shotguns.

• Employees' Right to Transport Guns--NRA-supported laws in seven states prohibit employers from firing workers who leave guns locked in personal vehicles on company property.

• Gun Show Legislation--NRA opposes requiring registration of people who attend gun shows, and requiring background checks on private sales of guns unrelated to shows. Such legislation is aimed at prohibiting private gun sales altogether, as in California. All gun sales by dealers already go through the national instant background check.

• Registration and Licensing--Studies by the Library of Congress and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have shown these laws do not reduce crime. The Supreme Court has ruled that requiring felons to register guns violates the Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination. These laws have made it possible to enforce gun confiscation laws in foreign countries and in some U.S. states.

• "Smart" Guns--NRA opposes requiring guns to have expensive, unreliable features, such as grips that read your fingerprints before the gun will fire.

• "Ballistic Fingerprinting"--NRA opposes requiring that markings on bullets and cartridge cases fired from new handguns be entered into a database, which amounts to gun registration. In 2008, the National Academy of Sciences concluded that a national database of such markings was unworkable and should not be established. Maryland's State Police Forensics Sciences Division has recommended that the state's expensive, inefficient system be scrapped. California's Attorney General said that it was not technologically possible to enter all new guns in a database and provide useful information for investigators.

• "Microstamping" and "Encoded Ammunition"--NRA opposes requiring cartridge cases to be marked with serial numbers by the ammunition factory or by the gun, and registered to purchasers. It amounts to gun owner registration. Criminals could beat the system by using stolen guns and ammunition, disfiguring or switching barrels or other parts, reloading ammunition with fired brass, or by using guns that don't eject cartridge cases automatically.
• Mandatory Storage--NRA opposes requiring gun owners to install gun locks on all guns at home, which would prevent the use of guns for self-defense and be enforceable only by police home inspections.

• Right-to-Carry--The federal and 44 state constitutions, and the laws of every state recognize the right to use guns for defensive purposes. The 40 RTC states have 26% lower violent crime rates, on average. Carry permit holders are more law-abiding than the rest of the public. Guns are used for self-defense three to five times more often than for crimes. National crime surveys show that people who use guns to defend against violent crime are less likely to be injured than all other victims. A study for the Department of Justice found that 40% of felons do not commit crimes if they believe victims are armed.

"Gun Control" Doesn't Work

Studies by or for the Congress, the Department of Justice, the Congressional Research Service, the Library of Congress, the National Academy of Sciences, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have found no evidence that "gun control" reduces crime, suicides or accidents in the U.S. or abroad.


More Guns, Less "Gun Control," and Less Crime

There are more guns (at least 250 million) and gun owners (70-80 million) in the U.S. than ever. During the last decade, "gun control" has been significantly reduced. Forty states have Right-to-Carry. The federal waiting period on handguns ended in 1998, in favor of the NRA-supported national instant check. Congress refused to renew the Clinton Gun Ban, allowing it to expire in 2004. All states have hunter protection laws, 47 have range protection laws, and 47 prohibit cities from imposing gun laws more restrictive than state law. Congress and 33 states have prohibited frivolous lawsuits against the firearm industry. Since 1991, total violent crime is down 38%, murder is down 42%, and robbery is down 45%.

Firearm Safety

NRA's 55,000 Certified Instructors and 12,000 Law Enforcement Instructors reach 800,000 people annually. NRA's Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program has been used by more than 26,000 schools, law enforcement agencies, and civic groups to reach more than 21 million children since 1988. The accidental gun death rate has declined 91% since 1904.
General Information

• Privately owned firearms in the U.S.: Over 250 million, including upwards of 90 million handguns. The number rises by approximately 4 million annually. (BATFE)
• Gun owners in the U.S.: 70-80 million; 40-45 million own handguns
• American households that have firearms: Approx. 40-45%
• Hunters nationwide: 14.5 million (National Shooting Sports Foundation)
• NRA State Associations and Local Clubs: 10,000
• NRA Target Shooting Tournaments annually: 10,000
• NRA Certified Instructors and Law Enforcement Instructors: 62,000


Top
#1067609 - 12/21/08 10:33 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
jumprightinit Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 7031
Loc: Ione, Washistan
It's a never ending battle. The tyrants in Gov't will settle for nothing less than an unarmed nation. You just have to wonder what the reason for that is. It sure isn't safety for the masses.
_________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.


LIBERALS.
Be careful. Sometimes they look like regular people.



No matter how you look at it at the end of the day BO still stinks.


Top
#2390037 - 01/09/13 03:45 AM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
harryheadshot Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 227
Loc: north GA
Government is not a solution to our problem, government is the problem." Ronald Reagan
i miss ole' Ronnie!
_________________________
MAKING GOOD PEOPLE HELPLESS DOESN'T MAKE BAD PEOPLE HARMLESS
"To conquer a nation
First disarm it's citizens"
~Adolf Hitler

Top
#2395706 - 01/13/13 03:41 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: harryheadshot]
quickblood Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 244
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: harryheadshot
Government is not a solution to our problem, government is the problem." Ronald Reagan
i miss ole' Ronnie!


x2

Top
#2399255 - 01/15/13 10:33 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
spkennels Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 57
Loc: nc

Top
#2399276 - 01/15/13 10:48 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
cookjp Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 58
Loc: North Georgia
That is one of the best things that I have read in a long time
that Sheriff has my respect for standing up to the Federal Bullies.

Top
#2399588 - 01/16/13 07:28 AM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
baldhunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 54
Loc: Wisconsin
Same here. There should be more like him.

Top
#2404278 - 01/20/13 04:05 AM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
spkennels Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 57
Loc: nc
I thank there is more following in footsteps now keep the pressure on them

Top
#2406607 - 01/21/13 10:46 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
kyle` Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/15/12
Posts: 362
Loc: central oregon
my local crook county sherrif sent the same letter. and even as liberal as the pacific nw is we have a lot of sherrifs standing up for once.

Top
#2410336 - 01/24/13 10:32 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: baldhunter]
sweatybetty Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/01/07
Posts: 3973
Loc: sw orygun
Originally Posted By: baldhunter
Same here. There should be more like him.


our sheriff here (we are a little south of linn county) did the same thing. im sure they are not the only ones. grin hopefully they wont back down when the barata threatens to cut federal $$$
_________________________
"Today does mark the beginning of the end”
Barack Huessein Obama, February 17 2009





Top
#2487011 - 04/22/13 01:46 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
Tonester Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 484
Loc: SE Nebraska
I am shocked by the Federal govt. & what I see as abuse. I see that many politicians swear to uphold the Constitution but their actions work to dismantle it. This is the purest form of treason in my opinion.
_________________________
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor?

James 4:12

Top
#2557281 - 10/16/13 11:28 AM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
SnowmanMo Offline
Director/Moderator

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 4305
Loc: Phoenix, Az
I thought that this would be a good forum to share my most recent correspondence with my Senator regarding gun control and to show just how screwed up our Senators and Congressmen really are:



Dear Mr. Mosler:



Thank you for contacting my office regarding gun control and the Safe Communities, Safe Schools Act of 2013 (S.649). I appreciate your taking the time to share your views with me.



Like all Americans, my heart goes out to the people of Newtown, Connecticut; Aurora, Colorado; my beloved Tucson, Arizona; and all of the other cities and towns impacted by recent acts of senseless gun violence. Sadly, the rest of us are left with more questions than answers, and differing, albeit well-intentioned, solutions designed to preserve our way of life and do our best to ensure these horrible events are less likely tomorrow.



For over three decades in Congress, I have built as strong a record as anyone in this body in defending the Second Amendment. I have consistently opposed the efforts of anti-gun supporters to ban guns and ammunition, staunchly defending the Constitutional rights that Arizonans hold dear. I have voted against assault weapons bans because I believed they would not work and opposed efforts to cripple firearms manufacturers by making them liable for the acts of violent criminals. I proudly lent my signature to Supreme Court briefs defending an individual’s right to bear arms. In my view, the wisdom of our framers inclusion of the right to bear arms is self-evident. Further, and as an Arizonan, I understand the significance of gun ownership to the people of the West, whether for self-defense, sport, or simple ownership.



I approach the issue of gun rights with a profound respect for our Constitution, and the freedoms and rights that it bestows on each and every one of us. But, I am also guided by a firm commitment that we should do everything we can, within the bounds of the Constitution and the principles of individual rights and federalism on which it is based, to stem the rising tide of gun violence in this country.



Gun violence in America, particularly mass violence, has roots that are much deeper than the instruments of violence itself. These roots are, as they have always been, cultural, systemic and diffuse. They involve the confluence of many different factors that we live with, and tacitly accept, every day. The increased lethality of some of these weapons, in particular, those that have been used in many of the most high-profile incidents, does not change this fact. Nor does it alter how inherently difficult it is to adequately address these factors legislatively.



These factors include, more prominently than is being recognized, a popular culture that celebrates hyper-violence. Over the last few years, this culture has become manifested in cruel and sadistic interactive video games, access of which to our children is unprecedented. Such influences have made the ability of parents to monitor what the developing minds of our children consume—and are consequently affected by—all the more difficult.



The effect of such stimuli on the developing minds of our young—minds that are, by definition, not fully matured and given to compulsive behavior—is something about which there is precious little discussion. In many of these same cases, young people are also subject to family dynamics that are volatile, enormously stressful and which lack structure or discipline. Or, are over-prescribed (or themselves abuse) powerful mood-altering medication that, administered outside an appropriate treatment regime, undermine the ability of young people to learn how to manage stress. We also have to mention, of course, widespread abuse of alcohol and illegal drugs. We also see, in many of these cases, a chronic inability or unwillingness by law enforcement to enforce currently existing laws that, if followed fully and consistently, would be helpful in deterring or preventing gun violence.



In a few of the cases that have been highlighted in the recent debate, we see persons with severe undiagnosed mental illness, and their parents, without the ability to recognize when they need to ask for help or the means to address their conditions effectively. So how do we legislate each of these factors or the cumulative effect of them all? We have to be honest. We cannot.



But, what we also cannot do is perpetuate the fiction that we can legislatively address all the root causes of gun violence today with efforts that do nothing other than impinge on rights that the Constitution bestows on all Americans. On issues such as these, we have to be more precise in our efforts, and more creative in our resolve.



I do not believe narrowly expanding background checks impinges on our Second Amendment Rights. Anything we can do within the bounds of the Constitution that would prevent someone who should not have a firearm from getting one is a good thing. And, embracing the opportunity to do so with the recent profoundly tragic events in mind, is worth doing.



But, let me be clear. We must not conflate doing so with the delusion that, if enacted, the legislative proposals we are considering or will consider would have prevented a lot of the mass violence in the past. Given the cultural, systemic nature of the problem, this would be, at best, unknown and, at worst, untrue.



For this reason, as we debate and consider legislative proposals on this vitally important subject, we must discharge our legislative responsibilities with great care and deliberation. This issue is too important and complicated and the lives and rights of all those whom it affects are far too precious for any lesser approach.



Again, thank you for contacting my office. Please do not hesitate to do so regarding this or any other matter of concern.







Sincerely,

John McCain

United States Senator



JM/js
_________________________


Mama always said, coyotes are like a box of chocolates...

Top
#2557295 - 10/16/13 12:15 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: SnowmanMo]
hm1996 Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 17547
Loc: S. Texas
Ummmm. Didn't he just say, "We gotta do something, even if its wrong."? He sure wasted a lot of paper.

Regards,
hm
_________________________
If what's ahead scares you & what's behind hurts you,look up; He never fails you.

If My people will humble themselves, pray, seek My face & turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven & will forgive their sin & heal their land. 2 Chron 7:14




Top
#2557360 - 10/16/13 02:45 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
SnowmanMo Offline
Director/Moderator

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 4305
Loc: Phoenix, Az
Sad commentary on the state of "our" "representation." He just needs to go quietly into the night AFTER he turns in his DNC card.
_________________________


Mama always said, coyotes are like a box of chocolates...

Top
#2557469 - 10/16/13 07:21 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: SnowmanMo]
idratherbehunting Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 265
Loc: Mora, MN
There is only one way to read the 2nd amendment unless you a progressive dumbocrat, then everything can be spun to make it fit your current agenda.



How to read the 2nd amendment
_________________________
"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it." - Barack Obama

Top
#2607587 - 01/07/14 01:41 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
Jimmc Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 93
Loc: So. Il.
In reference to the Second amendment, I truly think that we the people hold the key as to the future of the second amendment. We the people need to stand together, inform the government that we the people have had enough of their gun grabbing laws and that we the people will from this point on exercise our rights given in the Bill of Rights. This includes our right to keep and bear arms. This will mean that we the people will carry concealed weapons for the protection of ourselves, our families and of our Constitution.

Top
#2608578 - 01/08/14 07:52 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
Jimmc Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 93
Loc: So. Il.
I an really surprised that no-one on this forum had any comment for my post. I never even raised an eyebrow. I thought there were people on this forum, not puppets.

Top
#2608811 - 01/08/14 11:51 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
DesertRam Online
Director/Moderator

Registered: 04/26/01
Posts: 9415
Loc: Las Cruces, NM USA
Jim, I doubt that the lack of response is because we're all puppets. Most of us agree with what you've stated. We do need to stick together, we do need to stand up and be counted, and for many the best way to do that is to vote for gun rights supporters and to fund their campaigns. We must do this at the local level, as I believe most national level politicians are so crooked that they don't give a whit what their actual constituents have to say. They're not voting to serve our interests, only their own. Make sure your local and state representatives know what you want. Demand to be heard. Make your statements. But do it in a legal fashion that supports our cause.

And by the way, the BOR does not give us our rights, it simply identifies those inalienable rights that we're all born with. No piece of paper or government gives us those rights. They are ours by birth. The government is only here to try to curtail or take them away from us to serve its own (likely) evil purposes.
_________________________
"A person is smart; people are dumb panicky dangerous animals and you know it." K as played by Tommy Lee Jones, Men In Black

Top
#2608844 - 01/09/14 01:03 AM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
NcWhitetail Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 02/04/07
Posts: 1569
Loc: Lincolnton, NC
Well said DR. I'm not exactly a skilled wordsmith.

Top
#2608889 - 01/09/14 07:07 AM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: NcWhitetail]
OldTurtle Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/20/05
Posts: 19624
Loc: East Central FL
Quote:
I truly think that we the people hold the key as to the future of the second amendment. We the people need to stand together,
...I think most of us are in agreement with that statement...It's just how we go about it that usually causes some opposing viewpoints...

The Bill of Rights is a list of protections afforded to every citizen in an attempt to stem the potential tyranny of the government in answer to the impositions of the King of England on the Colonists...They are also amendments to the initial Constitution as are the ones that have been enacted since..

If you look at the earlier post with the letter from the Oregon Sheriff, it's obvious that the constituents in his county support his stance on the idea of Federal control...That is what keeps him in office...We need more citizen groups across the country to support, and vote for, elected officials that have the same viewpoint or attitude..

Every significant change will begin locally, within the counties and then to the elected state officials...Never pass up the chance to work at your local county fair or state fair for candidates that support your views...Laying back and waiting for someone else to do the job usually means the it doesn't get done....

It takes some time and effort and, in some cases, may cause some strain on personal relationships within family and friends, but if you really consider it worth the strain, you have an obligation to our descendents to act...
_________________________
Nature shares her secrets not to those that hurry by, but to those that walk with a happy heart and a seeing eye...


Top
#2609602 - 01/09/14 10:29 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
JDmac Offline
New Member

Registered: 12/10/12
Posts: 12
Loc: Illinois
I did not intend to insenuate that no one cares about our rights to keep and bear arms. As you may know that we in Illinois just got our Concealed Carry law passed and are just now able to apply for the carry license. 11,000 applications were received the first day. My concern is the fact that Washington keep trying to take our guns and other rights away by the sneakiest means. This is my concern.

Top
#2611873 - 01/12/14 05:04 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: JDmac]
Orneryolfart357 Offline
PM senior

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 9053
Loc: Nevada
Originally Posted By: JDmac
My concern is the fact that Washington keep trying to take our guns and other rights away by the sneakiest means. This is my concern.


You can always count on that. We have a Communist type of Gvt with an agenda.. Stay alert.
_________________________




Top
#2633015 - 02/08/14 11:53 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
Vurtle Offline
New Member

Registered: 04/22/13
Posts: 4
Loc: Tejas
I am writing this for clarity to those who aren't sure if a state has the right to regulate gun possession and carry methods.
The Supremacy Clause states that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and that all state judges must abide by this Constitution. Any laws contrary to this Constitution are notwithstanding. The 10th Amendment allows states to deal with all other matters not covered in the Constitution. I come to the conclusion that all states must follow the Constitution which includes the Bill of Rights and they can make laws within their states so long as they do not undermine the Bill of Rights.
Any state that has regulations on gun ownership, types of guns, capacity limits, or limits to how you may carry your firearm are in direct violation of the Supremacy Clause, 2nd Amendment, 10th Amendment, and 14th Amendment. Any time a law enforcement officer gives you a hard time or worse for carrying a firearm, the LEO is in direct violation of the 2nd, 14th, and possibly your 4th depending on how far he/she goes (assuming you haven't committed another crime while carrying your firearm). That LEO also took an oath to abide by the Constitution. Some cops cannot even recite the Bill of Rights to you, yet they are somehow suppose to know what your rights are as a US citizen. That part blows my mind! How did they get a badge? How does a SWAT team violate someones 3rd and 4th when they take over a nearby house and get away with it? Etc Etc..

If people would start reminding people of the Supremacy Clause, the 10th Amendment, 14th Amendment section 1, and how those apply to state laws, we might gain some ground here. A president who makes executive orders restricting any thing gun related has violated the Constitution and should be reprimanded or impeached for his actions and attempted actions. And lets not forget all the other crap he has pulled that appears as someone is trying to destroy the country from the inside out.


Edited by Vurtle (02/08/14 11:59 PM)

Top
#2633039 - 02/09/14 12:40 AM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
OldTurtle Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/20/05
Posts: 19624
Loc: East Central FL
Quote:
A president who makes executive orders restricting any thing gun related has violated the Constitution and should be reprimanded or impeached for his actions and attempted actions. And lets not forget all the other crap he has pulled that appears as someone is trying to destroy the country from the inside out.
...The trick, while you are correct, is to get the responsible parties (House and Senate) to initiate and follow through with the proper proceedings.....

You have to remember, most of them are lawyers, and as with many other professions, they generally protect their own...Most of them are in the "Elitist" mindset and have moved away from putting the interests of the general population in their efforts....
_________________________
Nature shares her secrets not to those that hurry by, but to those that walk with a happy heart and a seeing eye...


Top
#2718227 - 09/08/14 10:20 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
prairiefire Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/27/12
Posts: 760
Loc: Nebraska

Top
#2877080 - 10/31/15 12:53 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: prairiefire]
northtexashogdogs Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 105
Loc: TX
.
_________________________

Top
#2877095 - 10/31/15 01:05 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
Tbone-AZ Offline
PM senior

Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 6884
Loc: AZ, Phoenix
Here is a interesting question I just can't answer about 2A.

How does half a million people in Michigan go deer hunting have no reported accidents, and would be considered the 5th largest military in the world if put together, THEN TURN AROUND AND VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS, THAT WOULD TAKE AWAY THEIR GUNS TO HUNT????????????????

Same thing for the other neighboring states, also the south. Why someone that hunts would have any family members that live with them and eat that food, would vote democrat is a puzzle. Talk about being completely ignorant.
The DEMS will take away your guns and stop you from hunting all together and they vote for them.

_________________________
Have fun being an [beeep].. I hope it's all you hoped for.

Top
#2935264 - 02/21/16 11:56 AM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
Coyotehunter_ Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 06/04/08
Posts: 735
Loc: Southern IN
When we founded this country we didn't spray pesticides on all our crops. We didn't have millions of people living in close proximity to each other either.

Since the Constitution was written things have changed a lot. But the basics of life are still the same. We all want to pursue happiness.

Today I read where some guy in Michigan was going around and shooting people at random. They police caught him today so he's going to jail for a long long time. Good deal.

But it's idiots like this that are putting pressure on politicians to change the gun laws. For the record I'm against that but I see where the ideas are coming from. They should pass laws to help the mentally ill faster.

For you see it's the mentally ill people that are the problem not the tools that they use to do their damage.

Now if the anti gun people would try to change the 2nd amendment it would be a totally different matter. I would fight that too. But they are too smart to try to overtly go after the 2nd amendment. That would be too hard to do. Our founding fathers made it hard to change the US Constitution to make sure that if it were changed the vast majority of Americans would be in favor of doing that change. But only a few times have the people been able to make changes to the constitution.

But what the anti gun people do is just totally ignore the 2nd amendment and pass anti gun laws any ways.

Now we have this vacancy on the US Supreme Court and the SCOTUS is left with 4 liberals and 4 conservative justices. The next person to join the court will decide who the majority will be. This will have an effect on the law for many years to come.

Now Obama is going to appoint someone and the GOP Majority in the US Senate has vowed to block his appointment. So the court will be without it's full membership for some time to come.

There are and will be some very important cases coming though the court system and things will need to be decided once and for all for the entire country not just a certain part of the country.

If the Supreme court takes a gun case and ties 4 to 4 the decision on the case will go back to the appellate court to decide what to do. But that decision won't effect the entire country or so I've been led to believe. It will only effect the area covered by that appellate court. So this decision will have to later be taken up again when the Supreme Court has all 9 members on the court. This is going to create a big mess IMHO.

What if Hillary were to win the Presidency and appoint the next supreme court justice? Just think how that would affect our current and future gun laws. She is anti gun IMHO and I don't like that about her. She is talking about letting people sue the gun manufactures if she was put in control. I don't think that is a good idea at all. In fact that is a very bad idea and a slippery slope at best.



Edited by Coyotehunter_ (02/27/17 01:15 PM)
_________________________
Regards

Coyotehunter_

Top
#3086809 - 08/19/17 06:39 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: idratherbehunting]
22 Chuck Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 08/11/17
Posts: 244
Loc: Montmorency Co, MI
Many hunters/gun guys wear LEVIS---they are as anti 2A as they get. No Levis/Dockers for me. Also no BEN & JERRYS ice cream as they subsidize anti 2A quite heavily....

Top
#3086810 - 08/19/17 06:42 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Tbone-AZ]
22 Chuck Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 08/11/17
Posts: 244
Loc: Montmorency Co, MI
Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZ
Here is a interesting question I just can't answer about 2A.

How does half a million people in Michigan go deer hunting have no reported accidents, and would be considered the 5th largest military in the world if put together, THEN TURN AROUND AND VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS, THAT WOULD TAKE AWAY THEIR GUNS TO HUNT????????????????

Same thing for the other neighboring states, also the south. Why someone that hunts would have any family members that live with them and eat that food, would vote democrat is a puzzle. Talk about being completely ignorant.
The DEMS will take away your guns and stop you from hunting all together and they vote for them.



The way they do it is UNIONS. The union says we can get xx DOLLARS more for you at the next contract. The (D)s are thus in.

Top
#3143174 - 04/04/18 01:23 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: idratherbehunting]
Coyotehunter_ Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 06/04/08
Posts: 735
Loc: Southern IN
It took a while to read all that. Deconstructing a sentence was the most difficult part. And he said that by the age of 10 one should be able to do that? But he didn't mention subject and verb any where did he?
_________________________
Regards

Coyotehunter_

Top
#3213413 - 09/27/19 04:24 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
GunBugBit Offline
New Member

Registered: 06/12/14
Posts: 8
Loc: AZ
We have to be ready to lay it all on the line to defend our natural rights, or we don't deserve them.

Top
#3255857 - 10/27/20 06:12 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: sweatybetty]
Rockervillan Offline
New Member

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 2
Loc: Black Hills SD
This is great info

Top
#3266593 - 01/17/21 04:56 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
Eng Bob Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/15/14
Posts: 41
Loc: Welwick East Riding England UK
Here In England we are "Granted" permission to hold firearms and shotguns.
It is not our RIGHT.
You are so fortunate to live in such a great country where it is your right, but the thin end of the wedge has started beware.
We had this happen first semi auto rifles banned(.22 rimfire still allowed) then max of three shells in pump and semi shotguns then complete ban on pistols so but sure the wedge is driving guns out of our hands.
Now in Scotland licences for Air guns.....
_________________________
Wish there was a door from my house to Montana, the hinges would be worn out...

Top
#3266773 - 01/18/21 07:54 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
masshunter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 1299
Loc: western mass
Thank you Bob, I wish the new seven million gun owners could listen to you.

Top
#3279891 - 08/01/21 03:17 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
MJ Trapper Offline
New Member

Registered: 07/23/21
Posts: 5
Loc: United States
In my eyes, any law passed weather local, state, or federal that does not follow the constitution and or bill of rights are null and void and I will not concede to them if it's a infringement on my rights... This is what the SCOTUS needs to rule on...

Top
#3300031 - 06/09/22 01:00 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: MJ Trapper]
Coyotehunter_ Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 06/04/08
Posts: 735
Loc: Southern IN
Originally Posted By: MJ Trapper
In my eyes, any law passed weather local, state, or federal that does not follow the constitution and or bill of rights are null and void and I will not concede to them if it's a infringement on my rights... This is what the SCOTUS needs to rule on...



Very soon the US Supreme Court will rule on the NYSRPA vs Bruen case.
_________________________
Regards

Coyotehunter_

Top
#3300446 - 06/23/22 01:14 AM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Javafour]
Varmintpopper Offline
New Member

Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 8
Loc: Mid State Ca
The 2nd amendment was not written to grant permission for citizens to own and bear firearms. It forbids government interference in the right to keep and bear arms period.The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
This right is not granted, it is an inherent right that the government MAY NOT PROHIBIT.

Good Shooting

Lindy

Top
#3300468 - 06/23/22 03:48 PM Re: The Second Amendment [Re: Coyotehunter_]
Plant.One Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 4963
Loc: Oakland County, MI
Originally Posted By: Coyotehunter_
Originally Posted By: MJ Trapper
In my eyes, any law passed weather local, state, or federal that does not follow the constitution and or bill of rights are null and void and I will not concede to them if it's a infringement on my rights... This is what the SCOTUS needs to rule on...



Very soon the US Supreme Court will rule on the NYSRPA vs Bruen case.


we got our wish - and our WIN today!
_________________________
All reloading info shared is based on my experiences in my guns. Follow safe reloading practice and work up loads from published minimum data.
This disclaimer will self destruct in 10 seconds.


Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >



Moderator:  DesertRam, hm1996, Stu Farish 

© Predator Masters™, All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.