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#1032783 - 08/06/08 03:41 PM 2008 changes at Predator Masters
Redfrog Offline
Moderator/Retired PM Staff

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 18038
Loc: Palliser Triangle, Alberta
It is never easy trying to manage an organization of this size, with a strictly volunteer staff spread over the country, actually over two countries, so I want to say how grateful I am to the moderators and administrators who give of themselves daily to make Predator Masters the driving force it is today in the predator hunting sport. Without their dedication and hard work, volunteering their time and efforts I doubt we would be here.

We have managed to accomplish some good things through the past year. Besides the day to day running of this forum to keep it available for hunters to share their triumphs and their troubles, we had our annual hunt in Globe to provide a venue for members to shake hands and say hello to their fellow callers. This yearly hunt was one of the goals set by Will Craig.


It gives us a chance to meet people from the industry, experts with years experience and beginners who will come away from the hunt with a much better understanding of the nuts and bolts of calling.

This year we hope the hunt will be bigger and better than last year. It is never a competition; except for the egg shoot of course, but more a gathering for members at all stages of expertise in the sport.

We awarded two scholarships this year. I believe that is a first in this sport. We hope to expand that program this year. Congratulations to the winners and thank you to all who applied.

In the near future we hope to have a forum up and running devoted to fighting the antis on hunting issues. We are looking for a few good men to help with this huge task.

The Predator Expo is fast approaching this month. We will have a booth there and try to make our presence felt as the largest and most successful predator hunting organization on the planet. This is very exciting stuff for a sport that has really taken off in the last few years.

As in any organization we have to be willing to continually assess our direction and policies. Sometimes it is difficult to change the way we do things, but as the sport changes we must change to achieve our goals.

We have reached one of those times now.



In the past our staff has dealt with Predator Masters discussions and decisions in private. We have used the same process from the beginning and still use it today. An issue is brought up; it is discussed and then is voted on. A decision is only made by a consensus of opinion. There is no one person who decides what we do. We decide as a group.


In the past, when we have made tough decisions. One of the most difficult is suspending someoneís posting privileges. It is taken very seriously by our staff. Historically, we have kept the decision between PM and the person[s] involved. Some times the people involved went to other boards and tried to cast PM in a bad light. Sometimes we took legal action, but most times we ignored the trashing, and didnít respond.

This will no longer be the case.


Lately we have seen problems here with disputes between members as well as sponsors. It is at the point now where it is not only bad for the sport as it takes the focus away from hunting and puts it on personal issues between those involved, but bad for Predator Masters as well.
I say this because it sucks our volunteer resources from doing positive things with our organization to settling disputes that should be settled privately.

In the last few months there has been an escalation of disruption on our board and there have there been 2 websites set up lately with the intention of and actively soliciting actions to disrupt and slander Predator Masters and it's staff.


We have repeatedly tried to settle these matters as peacefully as possible, but without much success.


There are many different ideas, opinions and products along with techniques and equipment being used by our sport. Predator Masters welcomes and encourages opinions and debate on these things, in a reasonable manner. It helps the sport grow. The personal attacks on members or sponsors or moderators do not. Everyone is welcome to join Predator Masters at no cost. They should feel welcome to post their pictures and stories and opinions without fear of ridicule or insults. They should also not be subjected to assaults on their reputations.


The sponsors that support this board help pay the bills. No one of them has any control over the direction or policy of this board. They deserve the right to promote their products and services without harassment.

This kind of poor behavior is very bad for the sport and it discourages participation on this board.

We will now be taking a more proactive position on this matter.
In the last few weeks we have permanently suspended posting privileges of 4 members and cancelled two sponsorship contracts with a prorated refund.

We are also looking at legal recourse available to us.


We need to be very clear that our goals are to promote the sport of predator hunting and to provide a user, family, friendly place for hunters to exchange stories, tips and advice as well as promote the sport and fight for our right to hunt. If someone is here with an agenda different than that then they are likely on the wrong board.



I started off thanking the moderators for their volunteer efforts, and Iíd like to end by thanking the members for their support and input into making Predator Masters a great place of which to be a part.
While it is true we are a hunting organization, one only has to look through the threads on any day and find that we are also a family, who has disagreements, but who also can show solidarity when helping or supporting a fellow member when they need it. Everyday I read a post that makes proud to be a part of Predator Masters.


Thank you all for your support."

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#1032784 - 08/06/08 06:37 PM Re: 2008 changes at Predator Masters [Re: Redfrog]
Karl in Phoenix Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 09/29/02
Posts: 808
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Well said, Redfrog. Thank you for your work on Predator Masters Forum. Many thanks, too, to the moderators and sponsors.

Karl in Phoenix
_________________________
Former Special Operations Sniper
"Rangers, Lead the way!"

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#1032785 - 08/06/08 07:33 PM Re: 2008 changes at Predator Masters [Re: Karl in Phoenix]
Wildcat Cartridge Fan Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 183
Loc: Cajun Country
great job RF and you have my support 110%

cb <*)))>{

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#1032786 - 08/06/08 10:42 PM Re: 2008 changes at Predator Masters [Re: Redfrog]
jimanaz Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 1941
Loc: Phx, AZ
Never in my wildest dreams did I ever imagine that I would visit an internet forum on a daily basis to interact with a bunch of fellow coyote callers. I've actually developed some friendly personal relationships through Predator Masters and that blows my mind. I'm not very friendly. I try not to get too caught up in the drama that goes on here from time to time and I leave the decisions to the decision makers and assume that everything is for the benefit of the greater whole.

That said, I would be less than honest not saying that some of the recent devolpements have left a bad taste in my mouth. Like any other evolving entity, Predator Masters has to do what it has to do to continue growing in the direction chosen. I don't pretend to know all the deatails, I never will, I don't care to. In my mind, this place is all about having fun and I prefer it stays that way.

I'll close this little sermon with this.....the phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" keeps comming to mind.

Carry on......
_________________________
Besides the whiskey, we'll have a little respect.

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#1032787 - 08/07/08 12:44 AM Re: 2008 changes at Predator Masters [Re: jimanaz]
azcoyotehunter Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 851
Loc: Sitting on a ladder
WOW that post was.... vague!

Name names, websites, sponsors, etc.
_________________________
If you value yourself as a TRUE predator hunter... share the sport and take a novice with you (and not your gun). Want to see my progress in the Foxpro Competition? http://forum.gofoxpro.com/viewtopic.php?t=4675

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#1032788 - 08/07/08 12:57 AM Re: 2008 changes at Predator Masters [Re: azcoyotehunter]
N_Georgia Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 210
Loc: Calhoun Georgia 34*27'N 84...
I would like to know what sponsors to stay away from. A listing of canceled sponsors would be great. But I doubt it would be policically correct.
_________________________
acree42@msn.com

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#1032789 - 08/07/08 12:58 AM Re: 2008 changes at Predator Masters [Re: azcoyotehunter]
HighPlainsDrifter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1603
Loc: Casper, Wyoming
Sounds like a move in a positive direction. Progress is not always easy or painless. You have my support 100%. keep up the excellant work. Those of us that are faithful members know what this place is about and recognize daily the sense of family that this site fosters. Thanks to the PM staff for all they do.
_________________________
FORMERLY KNOWN AS: WyoSongDog "Any community's arm of force - military, police, security - needs people in it who can do necessary evil, and yet not be made evil by it. To do only the necessary and no more. To constantly question the assumptions, to stop the slide into atrocity." Gone but not forgotten. Rest in peace IDBob.

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#1032790 - 08/07/08 01:06 AM Re: 2008 changes at Predator Masters [Re: HighPlainsDrifter]
Weasel-UT Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 20007
Loc: S.W. Utah
It's the members, sponsors, mods and admin striving for a common goal that makes Predator Masters what it is. The few who try to disrupt that goal or act in an unethical manner spoil the site just as a bad apple spoils the barrel. The members are the largest group and have the greatest influence. Believe me, the mods, admin and sponsors appreciate the members more than you'll ever know.

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#1032791 - 08/07/08 02:35 PM Re: 2008 changes at Predator Masters [Re: Redfrog]
Mark_in_WI Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 173
Loc: Wisconsin
I would like to say thanks to all the mods/admin for all the work they do! Thanks for putting up with me and keep up the GREAT work!
Mark

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#1032792 - 08/07/08 08:00 PM Re: 2008 changes at Predator Masters [Re: Mark_in_WI]
JohnP Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/24/04
Posts: 252
Loc: Southern AZ
When a corporation this large has dissent with its customers(us)the problem is more than likely caused by management (Admin & Mods) and not by the customers. I would suggest that management take a hard long look at itself before moving on. You say that no one sponsor has more sway than another and that may be true and I hope it is. But that is not the preception by a lot your customer base and preception is what matters. You have some outstanding mods, RagnCajn, Curt, Nikon, Bronco and Mike Granger come to mind, you know there there and you know there knowledgable and they don't interfer at the drop of a hat. KInda like a good referee in the boxing ring, the less you see of him the better the fight. While others jump in at the least little thing to let you know they are running the show, maybe a small man complex. Kinda like picking up the lariat if you remember that fiasco. Sometimes I wonder if the mods have ever sat around a campfire late into the night sharing a nightcap with fellow hunters, I can imagine one saying "stay on subject". When people like Higgins and Chille Rojo speak about calling we should all shut up and listen, likewise when Dan Carey talks about rifles we need to pay attention. I don't know if these are 3 of the 4 banned members but if they are the first thing that comes to mind is cutting off your nose in spite of your face.
_________________________
"I will not hunt predators during the cycle of mating and rearing the young and I'm proud to say many callers have adopted this principle of good wildlife management." Founder of the PredatorMasters, Will Craig aka AzWill 12-29-2000

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#1032793 - 08/07/08 10:29 PM Re: 2008 changes at Predator Masters [Re: JohnP]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 17147
Loc: Missouri
Quote:

When a corporation this large has dissent with its customers(us)the problem is more than likely caused by management (Admin & Mods) and not by the customers. I would suggest that management take a hard long look at itself before moving on. You say that no one sponsor has more sway than another and that may be true and I hope it is. But that is not the preception by a lot your customer base and preception is what matters. You have some outstanding mods, RagnCajn, Curt, Nikon, Bronco and Mike Granger come to mind, you know there there and you know there knowledgable and they don't interfer at the drop of a hat. KInda like a good referee in the boxing ring, the less you see of him the better the fight. While others jump in at the least little thing to let you know they are running the show, maybe a small man complex. Kinda like picking up the lariat if you remember that fiasco. Sometimes I wonder if the mods have ever sat around a campfire late into the night sharing a nightcap with fellow hunters, I can imagine one saying "stay on subject". When people like Higgins and Chille Rojo speak about calling we should all shut up and listen, likewise when Dan Carey talks about rifles we need to pay attention. I don't know if these are 3 of the 4 banned members but if they are the first thing that comes to mind is cutting off your nose in spite of your face.




John,
If you hosted a party and I arrived at your house as a guest and then proceeded to continually slur you, made veiled insults, disrupted the party, disrespected your home and family, coerced other trouble makers to do the same, caused other respected guest to leave because of my and my friends poor behavior, ignored your pleas for me to stop, then you found evidence that I had invited others for a free for all there, and in that evidence you discovered a coordinated and malicious mission of ill will and destruction aimed at you - how would you react?

It really isnít all that difficult to understand, is it?
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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#1032794 - 08/07/08 10:39 PM Re: 2008 changes at Predator Masters [Re: GC]
bearmanric Offline
PM Sponsor/Custom Call Maker

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 11412
Loc: Tenino,WA
GC well said. that is how i feel. i know a few thing's that went on. you hit it dead on. i've been buying shirt's and stuff to look nice at the expo. i'm thinking of a predatormaster's polo to support them. if anyone can this year make it to the predatormaster's Hunt. you will see these moderator's and all of us are great people. it's time to stand up for Predatormaster's. they need our support.. Rick
_________________________
bearmanric@aol.com
http://rrcalls.com/

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#1032795 - 08/07/08 11:14 PM Re: 2008 changes at Predator Masters [Re: GC]
Okanagan Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/02
Posts: 714
Quote:

[John,
If you hosted a party and I arrived at your house as a guest and then proceeded to continually slur you, made veiled insults, disrupted the party, disrespected your home and family, coerced other trouble makers to do the same, caused other respected guest to leave because of my and my friends poor behavior, ignored your pleas for me to stop, then you found evidence that I had invited others for a free for all there, and in that evidence you discovered a coordinated and malicious mission of ill will and destruction aimed at you - how would you react?

It really isnít all that difficult to understand, is it?




Excellent description GC if you change who is doing the slurring.

If you hosted a party and I arrived at your house as a guest and then you proceeded to continually slur me, made veiled insults, disrupted the party, disrespected my home and family, coerced other trouble makers to do the same, caused other respected guest to leave because of you and your friends poor behavior, ignored my pleas for you to stop, then I found evidence that you had invited others for a free for all there, and in that evidence I discovered a coordinated and malicious mission of ill will and destruction aimed at me - how should I react?

Bingo GC, you got it.

The folks labeled trouble makers are reacting like normal people after such treatment. This party was great for years. Check the date when I joined. Many of us enjoyed this site for years without any tensions until the site itself changed. And as John says, you can ignore the perception of customers and call them bad people, or...




Edited to add: there is nothing profane in the post above and the only mild name calling is quoting GC. It is on topic. The tone is disappointed more than anything else, not an attack but honest disappointment in a site that could easily be better, and once was. So if you delete, edit or ban this poster and maybe John, the only reason is that you do not like what is said.

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#1032796 - 08/07/08 11:33 PM Re: 2008 changes at Predator Masters [Re: Okanagan]
Redfrog Offline
Moderator/Retired PM Staff

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 18038
Loc: Palliser Triangle, Alberta
Okanagan, it is a matter of perception. Because someone percieves something a certain way does not make it so. It is impossible to please everyone. so do you think PM should cater to the 1% whose perception is flawed or the 99% who support us and our actions?
If we catered to the 1% our perception tells us are repeatedly trouble makers, then we would spend all our time doing that and no time trying to reach our goals.

It really is that simple.
There are other boards that thrive on the daily drama. If that is what people are looking for they can go there.
If you are looking for a family friendly place to talk about predator hunting this is it. We won't settle for less.

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#1032797 - 08/07/08 11:43 PM Re: 2008 changes at Predator Masters [Re: Redfrog]
Okanagan Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/02
Posts: 714
Quote:

...do you think PM should cater to the 1% whose perception is flawed or the 99% who support us and our actions?




RF, I don't gamble, but I would love to put money on the inaccuracy of your numbers. It would not be gambling. There is no way to know however, and I do not trust any system I can imagine of verifying such numbers. Denying reality with wishful thinking perception is one of the most risky things a business can do. Good luck. After all, you may be right.

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