Custom calls... how do they rate?
- Thread starter Lance H
- Start date
Seldom Ever
New member
Krustyklimber
New member
Coldnosed,
Dude put your hat back on your head where it belongs, and don't give it another thought... I ain't gonna! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
The computer is a poor medium for communication sometimes...
I could say:
"You're a good guy..."
Taken word for word, this isn't a bad thing to say and should evoke no offense, but add a sarcastic tone (without a smilie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) and it could be taken as a completely different statement.
I for one was really pleased with how you went about this, Coldnosed... you politely said you thought I was being snide, and without hurling insults explained your position. Perfect! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I think that is how a misunderstanding of the written word is supposed to be handled. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
And I couldn't agree more with you on your theory of a tips/referral system... "you gotta remember what side the bread is buttered on..." my mother always says.
Isn't that the reason we all joined this "club", so we could network with other dudes and they would eventually become our friends?
If I understand the TOS (and my many conversations with pro staffers and moderators) correctly, anyone is entitled to write a 4000 word tutorial on Kevin's Kalls and no matter how blatent of an advert it may be, he has paid for it... so it stays.
And the posting of a picture of a call a member has purchased, or received as a gift, saying "here's my awesome new _______! Man does it ever sound good!" doesn't violate the spirit of these same rules, and would also stay (Curt's pics of the Al Lux Prototype and two coyotes in the snow is an awesome example of this).
Lance's original line of thinking on this thread is obvious to me, just as Colnosed's is, each was merely a referral and Lance's a complete truth.
Customs are better than some mass produced "plastic saxophone"... and most are made by these same "club members" that you hoped to network with.
Most of these call makers aren't getting rich off of them, most do it as a hobby/job... they actually care about each call, and they put a lot of heart into their work (at least I know I do).
Not much heart and soul in a plastic injection molding machine, and die cut reeds.
That is actually the thing I most look forward to in owning some customs, knowing some of Rich Grantham's magic might be in one makes it seem pretty cool... or knowing your reed was personally tuned by Rich Cronk, has get to inspire you guys that have em! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It'll inspire me (but I am easily inspired, I am a wild goosechaser! LOL).
Coycat,
Kevin has been playing with the settings on his e-mail, and he can't even get e-mail from his friends! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Hopefully he'll see you need him to get ahold of you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Dang I got on a roll here...
Jeff
Dude put your hat back on your head where it belongs, and don't give it another thought... I ain't gonna! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
The computer is a poor medium for communication sometimes...
I could say:
"You're a good guy..."
Taken word for word, this isn't a bad thing to say and should evoke no offense, but add a sarcastic tone (without a smilie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) and it could be taken as a completely different statement.
I for one was really pleased with how you went about this, Coldnosed... you politely said you thought I was being snide, and without hurling insults explained your position. Perfect! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I think that is how a misunderstanding of the written word is supposed to be handled. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
And I couldn't agree more with you on your theory of a tips/referral system... "you gotta remember what side the bread is buttered on..." my mother always says.
Isn't that the reason we all joined this "club", so we could network with other dudes and they would eventually become our friends?
If I understand the TOS (and my many conversations with pro staffers and moderators) correctly, anyone is entitled to write a 4000 word tutorial on Kevin's Kalls and no matter how blatent of an advert it may be, he has paid for it... so it stays.
And the posting of a picture of a call a member has purchased, or received as a gift, saying "here's my awesome new _______! Man does it ever sound good!" doesn't violate the spirit of these same rules, and would also stay (Curt's pics of the Al Lux Prototype and two coyotes in the snow is an awesome example of this).
Lance's original line of thinking on this thread is obvious to me, just as Colnosed's is, each was merely a referral and Lance's a complete truth.
Customs are better than some mass produced "plastic saxophone"... and most are made by these same "club members" that you hoped to network with.
Most of these call makers aren't getting rich off of them, most do it as a hobby/job... they actually care about each call, and they put a lot of heart into their work (at least I know I do).
Not much heart and soul in a plastic injection molding machine, and die cut reeds.
That is actually the thing I most look forward to in owning some customs, knowing some of Rich Grantham's magic might be in one makes it seem pretty cool... or knowing your reed was personally tuned by Rich Cronk, has get to inspire you guys that have em! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It'll inspire me (but I am easily inspired, I am a wild goosechaser! LOL).
Coycat,
Kevin has been playing with the settings on his e-mail, and he can't even get e-mail from his friends! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Hopefully he'll see you need him to get ahold of you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Dang I got on a roll here...
Jeff
Kevin Lukens
New member
Coycat I have tried to send you 2 letters. They come back so here goes Kevin Lukens 1829 E Charlies Trl. Huachuca City A.Z. 85616 My Phone No is 520-456-9879 after 7:00 P.M. Mountan time. Thanks for the intrest Kevin.
Rich Cronk
New member
Guys,
I received a phone call from a member in the great state of Maine. This phone call inspired me to say a little something about this custom calls thread. Custom calls are nice, and that is for certain. Are they necessary for a poor guy just getting started into predator calling? There are a lot of fellows wh want to call predators, but their wallet is thin. I know that feeling for certain. Just to set things straight on this matter, I would like to tell you this. You can buy a Tally-ho for about 8.00, a Crit'r call standard for maybe 10.00, and a Stewart PC-3 or Burnham WF-4 for about same price. Any of the calls that I just mentioned will call predators if you can make the bugger sound like some little critter in distress. Coyotes and Bobcats seem to be main target of most predator callers here. Neither one of those critters will give a hoot what kind of little animal he hears screaming. To him, it is just lunch. Think about that for a minute or two. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I received a phone call from a member in the great state of Maine. This phone call inspired me to say a little something about this custom calls thread. Custom calls are nice, and that is for certain. Are they necessary for a poor guy just getting started into predator calling? There are a lot of fellows wh want to call predators, but their wallet is thin. I know that feeling for certain. Just to set things straight on this matter, I would like to tell you this. You can buy a Tally-ho for about 8.00, a Crit'r call standard for maybe 10.00, and a Stewart PC-3 or Burnham WF-4 for about same price. Any of the calls that I just mentioned will call predators if you can make the bugger sound like some little critter in distress. Coyotes and Bobcats seem to be main target of most predator callers here. Neither one of those critters will give a hoot what kind of little animal he hears screaming. To him, it is just lunch. Think about that for a minute or two. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Rich well put.....here in Australia mass produced predator calls (sceery, johnnie Stewart and scotch) are nearly unheard of....all most of us have is a button call to call foxes and cats....some people have made their own calls from a peice of tin folded over.....for many many years these have called in heaps of foxes....im lucky enough to have a few differant predator calls now and love trying them out and once the foxes get a bit older or have heard the button call and know what its about its great to be able to give them something differant and have them come charging in.
Krustyklimber
New member
Rich,
Your point is well taken, perhaps I let my enthusiam get the better of me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
While on the one hand I agree wholeheartedly about custom calls not being necessary, BUT, just like camo I believe they are a benefit.
Many educated coyotes have already heard the sing-song of the mass produced calls, especially in the areas where calling is popular.
And many of the mass produced call are substandard (until massaged by a master) your generous reworking of Tally-Ho calls illustrates this well, as do the constantly unreliable modern Lohman's Circés. But we are lucky enough that they will sometimes work to bring critters in.
Same luck is needed with any call, and that is more about set-up, than about sound. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
When you are first starting out, in varmint calling, or playing a guitar, a Wal-Mart instrument is FINE... but eventually a Fender Stratocaster is really what you need and will have a quality of sound that is worthy of the skills you have evoled into an art form.
To me it's partly about being rewarded for learning a skill, with a really nice tool, kind of a treat.
And as far as the excuse that varmint hunters are too poor to afford a custom call seems ridiculous... $250 Higgins Howlers aside most customs only cost 2-3 times as much as a mass produced calls.
And not purchasing a couple boxes of bullets or not spending a day at the gun range can easily offset this increase in price... and pay bigger dividends then an afternoon of shooting practice (IMHO).
If the cost of a single custom call is going to price you out of the game... I suggest you give up now... the amount of money spent on gas for the truck on a given Saturday morning is probably higher than the price of a Killer Call. And so is a one year hunting license...
(this I understand /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif ... I can't even afford my license yet this year, and the only customs I own I made myself. So far this year, I am the designated caller and can't shoot anything but my camera)
How many dollars worth of calls have most of you guys left out on a stand somewhere? This would wipe out these poor guys who can't afford a custom. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif If you are really that poor, learning to voice howl, lipsqueek, and/or make your own calls may be the only way you ever be able to play the game.
The really good thing for these new guys is... if they are really good at this calling stuff, and fur is prime and plentiful where they hunt...
They can easily afford the finest of customs to go along with their talents, after the fur buyers check clears! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Oops, there goes that enthusiasm again...
Jeff
Your point is well taken, perhaps I let my enthusiam get the better of me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
While on the one hand I agree wholeheartedly about custom calls not being necessary, BUT, just like camo I believe they are a benefit.
Many educated coyotes have already heard the sing-song of the mass produced calls, especially in the areas where calling is popular.
And many of the mass produced call are substandard (until massaged by a master) your generous reworking of Tally-Ho calls illustrates this well, as do the constantly unreliable modern Lohman's Circés. But we are lucky enough that they will sometimes work to bring critters in.
Same luck is needed with any call, and that is more about set-up, than about sound. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
When you are first starting out, in varmint calling, or playing a guitar, a Wal-Mart instrument is FINE... but eventually a Fender Stratocaster is really what you need and will have a quality of sound that is worthy of the skills you have evoled into an art form.
To me it's partly about being rewarded for learning a skill, with a really nice tool, kind of a treat.
And as far as the excuse that varmint hunters are too poor to afford a custom call seems ridiculous... $250 Higgins Howlers aside most customs only cost 2-3 times as much as a mass produced calls.
And not purchasing a couple boxes of bullets or not spending a day at the gun range can easily offset this increase in price... and pay bigger dividends then an afternoon of shooting practice (IMHO).
If the cost of a single custom call is going to price you out of the game... I suggest you give up now... the amount of money spent on gas for the truck on a given Saturday morning is probably higher than the price of a Killer Call. And so is a one year hunting license...
(this I understand /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif ... I can't even afford my license yet this year, and the only customs I own I made myself. So far this year, I am the designated caller and can't shoot anything but my camera)
How many dollars worth of calls have most of you guys left out on a stand somewhere? This would wipe out these poor guys who can't afford a custom. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif If you are really that poor, learning to voice howl, lipsqueek, and/or make your own calls may be the only way you ever be able to play the game.
The really good thing for these new guys is... if they are really good at this calling stuff, and fur is prime and plentiful where they hunt...
They can easily afford the finest of customs to go along with their talents, after the fur buyers check clears! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Oops, there goes that enthusiasm again...
Jeff
Jean-Henri
New member
Krusty, please remind us of your predator calling credentials again. You sure sound like an expert, like you've been doing this for a couple decades, but if I'm not mistaken, I thought you have posted more than once before that you have not even killed a coyote.
So please tell us how it is that you think you can espouse the kind of advice that Rich Cronk and Rich Higgins and Jay Nistetter are qualified to give.
I've seen plenty of misplaced "experts" on this website, and I usually don't say anything about it, but it seems to me that you are expecting people to pay you for your products. Your products may indeed be good, but to come off like a sage old caller is in my opinion misrepresentation of your qualifications.
I put you in the WalMart crowd. Why is it you feel you are suddenly in the realm of a high-end Fender?
So please tell us how it is that you think you can espouse the kind of advice that Rich Cronk and Rich Higgins and Jay Nistetter are qualified to give.
I've seen plenty of misplaced "experts" on this website, and I usually don't say anything about it, but it seems to me that you are expecting people to pay you for your products. Your products may indeed be good, but to come off like a sage old caller is in my opinion misrepresentation of your qualifications.
I put you in the WalMart crowd. Why is it you feel you are suddenly in the realm of a high-end Fender?
scattergunner
New member
Good Topic...
I've been reading this and just soaking in a lot of infomation from you guys posting on this thread. I've just got one thought to express and in some ways it already has been brought up. But, it seems to me, in my very limited predator calling experience, that one of the most important consideration in any call, mass produced or custom, is uniqueness.
For example, if you're hunting a particular area, and every other person has hunted that area previously has done so with either call A, call B, or call C, there are going to be a lot of coyotes in that area that are educated to the A, B, and C types of calls. Now then, if you go into this same area, with a new type of call, we'll call it call D, which is not readily available for use among hunters and is therefore, unique, you're chances of fooling these coyotes educated to A,B,and C calls has now increased. Provided of course you follow the other basic rules of predator hunting, but I guess that goes somewhat without saying.
This is just one of the advantages of a custom call in my mind. Chances are, you are going to be making sounds that'll be unique to the adjacent coyotes. There are certainly other benefits as well, but I tend to believe that the unique nature of a call is one of it's strongest selling points.
I don't mean to sound like I'm foolish enough to believe that I'm the only predator hunter who's ever thought of this. But I am willing to bet that I am a step ahead from every Tom, Dick, and Harry who runs down to the Sporting Goods store and asks the salesperson, "What do I need to hunt coyotes around here?"
I hope to one day own several custom calls. Right now, finances are a bit tight, as many can relate. But uniqueness can be achieved through other methods,as well. Not to mention without spending much scratch. My first call I ever bought for predators was done in a manner like I described above, just another readily available call, just like the hudreds of others exactly like it hanging from the wall of the local sporting goods stores. When I began looking for different calls, I noticed all the sporitng goods stores in the area, though they were under different managment, carried about the same selection of predator calls, within about half a dozen different brands to choose from. Other than my first call and a bulb squeeker, I have never bought another call from a store in Northern Utah. I bought a call from Dan Thompson while at an outdoors expo, who has a fairly small call making biz in Northern Wyoming, and have just received two new calls from All Predator Calls.com, neither of which were available directly from a store in my area. The Dan Thompson Call produced two yotes in less than as many hours, in tough conditions. The others, a Tally-ho and a Wiley Flex Tone, have yet to be tried out, but I look forward to doing so.
I've been reading this and just soaking in a lot of infomation from you guys posting on this thread. I've just got one thought to express and in some ways it already has been brought up. But, it seems to me, in my very limited predator calling experience, that one of the most important consideration in any call, mass produced or custom, is uniqueness.
For example, if you're hunting a particular area, and every other person has hunted that area previously has done so with either call A, call B, or call C, there are going to be a lot of coyotes in that area that are educated to the A, B, and C types of calls. Now then, if you go into this same area, with a new type of call, we'll call it call D, which is not readily available for use among hunters and is therefore, unique, you're chances of fooling these coyotes educated to A,B,and C calls has now increased. Provided of course you follow the other basic rules of predator hunting, but I guess that goes somewhat without saying.
This is just one of the advantages of a custom call in my mind. Chances are, you are going to be making sounds that'll be unique to the adjacent coyotes. There are certainly other benefits as well, but I tend to believe that the unique nature of a call is one of it's strongest selling points.
I don't mean to sound like I'm foolish enough to believe that I'm the only predator hunter who's ever thought of this. But I am willing to bet that I am a step ahead from every Tom, Dick, and Harry who runs down to the Sporting Goods store and asks the salesperson, "What do I need to hunt coyotes around here?"
I hope to one day own several custom calls. Right now, finances are a bit tight, as many can relate. But uniqueness can be achieved through other methods,as well. Not to mention without spending much scratch. My first call I ever bought for predators was done in a manner like I described above, just another readily available call, just like the hudreds of others exactly like it hanging from the wall of the local sporting goods stores. When I began looking for different calls, I noticed all the sporitng goods stores in the area, though they were under different managment, carried about the same selection of predator calls, within about half a dozen different brands to choose from. Other than my first call and a bulb squeeker, I have never bought another call from a store in Northern Utah. I bought a call from Dan Thompson while at an outdoors expo, who has a fairly small call making biz in Northern Wyoming, and have just received two new calls from All Predator Calls.com, neither of which were available directly from a store in my area. The Dan Thompson Call produced two yotes in less than as many hours, in tough conditions. The others, a Tally-ho and a Wiley Flex Tone, have yet to be tried out, but I look forward to doing so.
for tonlocus
I have a wav file on my web page if you would like to hear the sound it makes. i have sent a few to differant people over there who would be in a better position to tell you how they went....i think the main problem people have is that they arnt as loud as the US made calls. though for $2 Aus which is about $1.30US i dont supose we can really complain to much.
I have a wav file on my web page if you would like to hear the sound it makes. i have sent a few to differant people over there who would be in a better position to tell you how they went....i think the main problem people have is that they arnt as loud as the US made calls. though for $2 Aus which is about $1.30US i dont supose we can really complain to much.
Jay Nistetter
New member
Let’s see… Since I am not in the business of making a living off my calls I can say that many times I have told new predator callers to go buy a cheaper call to start with, but buy at least two different calls. For one reason calls, whether open reed or closed reed, are unreliable in both performance and operation.
When I started hunting I had a Sears bolt action 20 gauge and have since moved up the ladder. I still took game with a cheaper tool. I was happy. By all means you should use what tools you are most comfortable with and tools that produce satisfying numbers for you. You hear many important things to remember about calling coyotes, but the most important thing to remember is to be mentally prepared and mentally confident in your goals. You must visualize a goal that you want to reach. How many times have you heard a basketball player say that he visualizes seeing his shot go through the basket? You need to do the same.
I still use plastic calls or other (cringe) makes of calls besides my own. Why? Because I search for the right bait that will net me a full stringer of coyotes. Sometimes my calls work wonderfully and other times they will not. Some days you stand behind the truck without a gun and turn to see a coyote running towards you without ever blowing a note. Right Cronk? (I still think it was those big ol monkey ears you had on that caused the coyote to run at you.) One thing is certain and that is a good caller will outcall most anyone no matter what call he is using because he has learned to make a myriad of different sounds many thought impossible on a single call. Can you make chicken sounds on a cottontail call? Certainly. Can you make coon chatter on a jackrabbit call? Certainly. Can you bark, yelp and growl? Yes you can. Can you sound like a woodpecker in distress? Yes you can all without switching calls. Even when you figure out how to do all that, you still need 2 calls unless you can call with your voice.
Now to the point of Custom calls. Do you need a custom call? Nope. But you don’t need a Remington when a NEF will do either. Why have a trigger job done if the primer still fires? Why have a T-bone when a potato fills you up?
So what does this all have to do with a decision on whether to buy a custom call or not? Quality for starters. You don’t need ‘em but they sure are pretty and sound good. Wow! Who in their right mind would say “Jay, that dying rabbit shore do sound good.”. I better go check to see if I have all my teeth and if thar’s hound dogs on the porch. There’s also a guy-thing of Want overrides Need.
When I started hunting I had a Sears bolt action 20 gauge and have since moved up the ladder. I still took game with a cheaper tool. I was happy. By all means you should use what tools you are most comfortable with and tools that produce satisfying numbers for you. You hear many important things to remember about calling coyotes, but the most important thing to remember is to be mentally prepared and mentally confident in your goals. You must visualize a goal that you want to reach. How many times have you heard a basketball player say that he visualizes seeing his shot go through the basket? You need to do the same.
I still use plastic calls or other (cringe) makes of calls besides my own. Why? Because I search for the right bait that will net me a full stringer of coyotes. Sometimes my calls work wonderfully and other times they will not. Some days you stand behind the truck without a gun and turn to see a coyote running towards you without ever blowing a note. Right Cronk? (I still think it was those big ol monkey ears you had on that caused the coyote to run at you.) One thing is certain and that is a good caller will outcall most anyone no matter what call he is using because he has learned to make a myriad of different sounds many thought impossible on a single call. Can you make chicken sounds on a cottontail call? Certainly. Can you make coon chatter on a jackrabbit call? Certainly. Can you bark, yelp and growl? Yes you can. Can you sound like a woodpecker in distress? Yes you can all without switching calls. Even when you figure out how to do all that, you still need 2 calls unless you can call with your voice.
Now to the point of Custom calls. Do you need a custom call? Nope. But you don’t need a Remington when a NEF will do either. Why have a trigger job done if the primer still fires? Why have a T-bone when a potato fills you up?
So what does this all have to do with a decision on whether to buy a custom call or not? Quality for starters. You don’t need ‘em but they sure are pretty and sound good. Wow! Who in their right mind would say “Jay, that dying rabbit shore do sound good.”. I better go check to see if I have all my teeth and if thar’s hound dogs on the porch. There’s also a guy-thing of Want overrides Need.
I think maybe we are missing just what a custom call really is. Is it a [must have] to call a coyote NO , is it a [must have] to be a top notch caller of coyotes NO. So why do I need a Custom Call? Until just a short time ago like a month I would most likely said I or you don't need a custom made call, but since I have bought 4 now I can see how they are an improvement over what I had before. My main distress call was a Tally-Ho which I think is a very good call. I have called most of my coyotes with one. The first one I had I lost at the stand when the coyote came in behind me and around the tree I was sitting by. When I turned my head so I could see him he was almost touching my elbow. We both about left a pile of .... beside that tree. Anyway I left a good Tally-Ho there, so I bought another one actually 3. (#1) made a good sound most everytime I used it,good one, (#2) after I work it over made a good sound most of times I try to use it,SO SO one. (#3) This one I gave up on and threw it in the back of a junk drawer maybe I'll try to make it work sometime. "NOT" So 3 calls and I have one and a half calls(How much did that 1 good call cost me?) Problem with this call is the reed stick down and you can't get a sound to come out of them.
I have purchased 4 custom call, this last month or so, and of the 4 calls I have all 4 Make a good sound and are easier to get that sound out of than the mass calls I have used.
As to a earier post of how can a person make a good call when he has not killed a coyote? A good sounding predator call is a instrustment almost to the same point as a musical instrustment. I think if you do a check the masters of the musical instrustment making business are not all great musicians them selves. Therefore as long as a person knows what the call is to sound like and has the knowledge and understanding to make his call sound that way where is the need to be an outstanding coyote hunter.
Now I am not a OUTSTANDING coyote hunter myself but I've call a few in. Of my 4 custom calls 3 are Krusty Kriers and all 3 are in my thinking great calls, I have a jackrabbit, cottontail, and a howler. And all 3 will do what they were made for, call in coyotes.(Have they?)(NO BUT THEY WILL) They all have their own sound unlike any other of the many calls I have. The other custom call I bought is a Taylor Special made by Rich Cronk and I think all will agree that Rich is a knowledgeable coyote hunter. His howler is a great call with good sound too and I am sure it will also do what it was made for. (again it hasn't but will) As to which howler is the best I can't say because there is things I like and can do with each one that "I" can't do with the other one. So each has its place!!
So after rambling on for a long time I will get off my soap box and be still .
Hilltop
I have purchased 4 custom call, this last month or so, and of the 4 calls I have all 4 Make a good sound and are easier to get that sound out of than the mass calls I have used.
As to a earier post of how can a person make a good call when he has not killed a coyote? A good sounding predator call is a instrustment almost to the same point as a musical instrustment. I think if you do a check the masters of the musical instrustment making business are not all great musicians them selves. Therefore as long as a person knows what the call is to sound like and has the knowledge and understanding to make his call sound that way where is the need to be an outstanding coyote hunter.
Now I am not a OUTSTANDING coyote hunter myself but I've call a few in. Of my 4 custom calls 3 are Krusty Kriers and all 3 are in my thinking great calls, I have a jackrabbit, cottontail, and a howler. And all 3 will do what they were made for, call in coyotes.(Have they?)(NO BUT THEY WILL) They all have their own sound unlike any other of the many calls I have. The other custom call I bought is a Taylor Special made by Rich Cronk and I think all will agree that Rich is a knowledgeable coyote hunter. His howler is a great call with good sound too and I am sure it will also do what it was made for. (again it hasn't but will) As to which howler is the best I can't say because there is things I like and can do with each one that "I" can't do with the other one. So each has its place!!
So after rambling on for a long time I will get off my soap box and be still .
Hilltop
Rich Cronk
New member
I see that my above post has some folks thinking a little bit, and some very good information is now being brought to light. This thread is getting better all of the time now. Keep up the good work guys. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Jay Nistetter,
It was that dang Arizona jackrabbit that dang near ran me over! Yonder coyote that had been chasing that rabbit sure was disappointed to see US standing there loading our rifles now wern't he? LOL
Jay Nistetter,
It was that dang Arizona jackrabbit that dang near ran me over! Yonder coyote that had been chasing that rabbit sure was disappointed to see US standing there loading our rifles now wern't he? LOL
Krustyklimber
New member
Jean-Henri,
I will take your statement, that I sound like an old sage as a compliment...
Though I have yet to kill a coyote I have shot more than a few with my camera...
I have spent a great deal of time learning to play a call, and by no means consider myself even close to an expert caller, or a call maker.
Which I have also been honest in pointing out.
But I can tell you this... as a boy we ate a lot of pen raised rabbit, and those rabbits had to die before they could be eaten...
It took a long time 'til I could kill everyone with just one whack of the fish bonker, so I have heard A LOT of rabbits sing their final blues.
Outside of this forum I have had many conversations with many of these master custom builders and have learned an incredible amout from them... As well as learning the ropes of coyote hunting quite well for a novice.
I've got it all in my noodle, I just gotta put it into practice.
Are my calls (which I am far from pushing the sales of) Stratocasters? NO WAY! But they aren't the plastic saxophone you get at the 99cent store either.
Could I pull a bunch of customer quotes up and show what they think? Yes I could, could that jeapordize my membership here at PM? Yes it could.
What is it you want from me Jean-Henri? Why do you single me out? You put me, or my calls in the Wal-Mart crowd?
Jeff
I will take your statement, that I sound like an old sage as a compliment...
Though I have yet to kill a coyote I have shot more than a few with my camera...
I have spent a great deal of time learning to play a call, and by no means consider myself even close to an expert caller, or a call maker.
Which I have also been honest in pointing out.
But I can tell you this... as a boy we ate a lot of pen raised rabbit, and those rabbits had to die before they could be eaten...
It took a long time 'til I could kill everyone with just one whack of the fish bonker, so I have heard A LOT of rabbits sing their final blues.
Outside of this forum I have had many conversations with many of these master custom builders and have learned an incredible amout from them... As well as learning the ropes of coyote hunting quite well for a novice.
I've got it all in my noodle, I just gotta put it into practice.
Are my calls (which I am far from pushing the sales of) Stratocasters? NO WAY! But they aren't the plastic saxophone you get at the 99cent store either.
Could I pull a bunch of customer quotes up and show what they think? Yes I could, could that jeapordize my membership here at PM? Yes it could.
What is it you want from me Jean-Henri? Why do you single me out? You put me, or my calls in the Wal-Mart crowd?
Jeff
Rich,
Good point you raise, and I hope the member that called you doesn't feel that he or she can't jump right in and contribute to the thread. All opinions, pro and con, are certainly valid and welcome. Having said that, I sure don't want to see this dialogue splinter into two camps that can't find common ground with the other.
Whether or not to drop that extra dime on a custom vs mass produced call would certainly be a tough decision to make based upon nary a lick of practical experience in the field. At best, you'd have to go on blind faith that the remarks from names you recognize here will lead you in the right direction. (Which should remind us that a lot of people place a lot of stock, and sometimes their money, in what we say when we post.)
With few exceptions, when I'm first dealing with an inexperienced caller and he's trying to identify his weak link, they ask me about the same thing. And I have good money that says they ask you the same thing, too. "Am I making the right sound?" You and I both know that sound is but a nominal part of the overall calling strategy. Way too much emphasis on the perfect sound when, often as not, anything close will do. In fact, the guy that sounds totally unlike the Johnny Stewart tapes is probably a step ahead of his compadres. Aside from a working knowledge of setups, approach, when to squeak and when to keep your mouth shut, having the right gun, making a good shot, yada, yada, yada, it helps to have confidence in your ability. To be able to think that you stand a chance of calling something. Anything. A good sounding call places you a long way down the line to that end. Not to say that there aren't good sounding mass produced calls, because there are, but as Jay pointed out in his T&PC piece, and something I agree with wholeheartedly, those mass calls get tossed together in volume, packaged, distributed, and hanged on a hook without ever being tested to even see if they work. The reeds don't get any attention and the buyer just operates on blind faith that the sound it makes is what he needs to use to call predators. What percentage of those calls do you think sound "really good" first time out of the package? Emphasis by the maker is volume sales. Quantity, not always top quality.
Customs, by comparison, are individually tuned and finished until the right sound is attained. I take each reed with mine, slip it into a sleeve in a call body blank and give it a working over. Fine tune the reed it until I get the sound I want, then place it into the call body. Test it again, make any adjustments and it's ready to go. Same thing with every call I make. And I know from your own posts that you do the same. I applaud your point that not everyone that wants to participate in the game has to be using the best equipment, and more than a few of us are no more than two paychecks from the street. But, if a guy is willing to spend some huge sum on a high-dollar rifle because he knows it'll do a better job at hitting and killing his target, and get to the stand in his new truck because he knows it's more comfortable than the old beater he used to own, rides his ATV in the last 400 yards rather than walking, then he can afford to drop an extra sawbuck to make sure he's outfitted with a good quality, proven coyote call, custom or otherwise.
I'm tight as hell, but through repeated bad experiences and a wife that rubs it in, I've learned that it's often best to spend twice as much if you get three times the call in exchange. And not all customs are God-awful expensive. Mine are very reasonable. Higgins thinks I'm crazy for all but giving them away. Maybe I am. I don't delude myself into thinking that I've cornered the market on great sounding calls. They're each worth only and exactly as much as a customer will pay me for it. I think (and hope) I'm providing a good call for my customers, and I know Kevin does, as well. Ultimately, that decision is in the hands of the consumer. The good customs, priced at a level where the buyer feels he's been successful in making a trade for something worth at least as much as the money he paid for it, will survive through good old fashioned competition, while those that don't measure up will fall to the wayside. I've come to sincerely feel that the caller, at any level of skill and expertise, should at least consider customs as an option and would often be doing themselves a big favor by moving them to the top of his list.
Good point you raise, and I hope the member that called you doesn't feel that he or she can't jump right in and contribute to the thread. All opinions, pro and con, are certainly valid and welcome. Having said that, I sure don't want to see this dialogue splinter into two camps that can't find common ground with the other.
Whether or not to drop that extra dime on a custom vs mass produced call would certainly be a tough decision to make based upon nary a lick of practical experience in the field. At best, you'd have to go on blind faith that the remarks from names you recognize here will lead you in the right direction. (Which should remind us that a lot of people place a lot of stock, and sometimes their money, in what we say when we post.)
With few exceptions, when I'm first dealing with an inexperienced caller and he's trying to identify his weak link, they ask me about the same thing. And I have good money that says they ask you the same thing, too. "Am I making the right sound?" You and I both know that sound is but a nominal part of the overall calling strategy. Way too much emphasis on the perfect sound when, often as not, anything close will do. In fact, the guy that sounds totally unlike the Johnny Stewart tapes is probably a step ahead of his compadres. Aside from a working knowledge of setups, approach, when to squeak and when to keep your mouth shut, having the right gun, making a good shot, yada, yada, yada, it helps to have confidence in your ability. To be able to think that you stand a chance of calling something. Anything. A good sounding call places you a long way down the line to that end. Not to say that there aren't good sounding mass produced calls, because there are, but as Jay pointed out in his T&PC piece, and something I agree with wholeheartedly, those mass calls get tossed together in volume, packaged, distributed, and hanged on a hook without ever being tested to even see if they work. The reeds don't get any attention and the buyer just operates on blind faith that the sound it makes is what he needs to use to call predators. What percentage of those calls do you think sound "really good" first time out of the package? Emphasis by the maker is volume sales. Quantity, not always top quality.
Customs, by comparison, are individually tuned and finished until the right sound is attained. I take each reed with mine, slip it into a sleeve in a call body blank and give it a working over. Fine tune the reed it until I get the sound I want, then place it into the call body. Test it again, make any adjustments and it's ready to go. Same thing with every call I make. And I know from your own posts that you do the same. I applaud your point that not everyone that wants to participate in the game has to be using the best equipment, and more than a few of us are no more than two paychecks from the street. But, if a guy is willing to spend some huge sum on a high-dollar rifle because he knows it'll do a better job at hitting and killing his target, and get to the stand in his new truck because he knows it's more comfortable than the old beater he used to own, rides his ATV in the last 400 yards rather than walking, then he can afford to drop an extra sawbuck to make sure he's outfitted with a good quality, proven coyote call, custom or otherwise.
I'm tight as hell, but through repeated bad experiences and a wife that rubs it in, I've learned that it's often best to spend twice as much if you get three times the call in exchange. And not all customs are God-awful expensive. Mine are very reasonable. Higgins thinks I'm crazy for all but giving them away. Maybe I am. I don't delude myself into thinking that I've cornered the market on great sounding calls. They're each worth only and exactly as much as a customer will pay me for it. I think (and hope) I'm providing a good call for my customers, and I know Kevin does, as well. Ultimately, that decision is in the hands of the consumer. The good customs, priced at a level where the buyer feels he's been successful in making a trade for something worth at least as much as the money he paid for it, will survive through good old fashioned competition, while those that don't measure up will fall to the wayside. I've come to sincerely feel that the caller, at any level of skill and expertise, should at least consider customs as an option and would often be doing themselves a big favor by moving them to the top of his list.