Vmax rounds
- Thread starter Lance H
- Start date
Hornetfan
New member
Hey Lance,
I tried them out of my .22 Hornet moving at a heck of alot slower velocity than the .223 and had them blow up on the hide. Really didn't get any penetration and they tear the heck out of a hide. I had to track the coyote for a 1/4 mile or better before I got another shot. If you are lucky enough to sneak one between two ribs you might be OK, but if you hit a rib or a shoulder you may be in for a chase. They work great on gophers and p-dogs though.
Later Jeff
I tried them out of my .22 Hornet moving at a heck of alot slower velocity than the .223 and had them blow up on the hide. Really didn't get any penetration and they tear the heck out of a hide. I had to track the coyote for a 1/4 mile or better before I got another shot. If you are lucky enough to sneak one between two ribs you might be OK, but if you hit a rib or a shoulder you may be in for a chase. They work great on gophers and p-dogs though.
Later Jeff
Hi Lance.
If your 40 grainers perform like the 75 grainers, you may have to do a bit of sewing on the pelts to lace up the hole.
I'm using the Vmax in my 25-06 and am very pleased. I moly coat the pellet and compress 61.5 grains of Reloader 19. Near as I can tell its squirtin' out at about 36 or 3700 fps. Needless to say, they do a number on a coyote, even at 300 yds.
You know Doug Bethe over at Gypsum?
Later, ---- John
If your 40 grainers perform like the 75 grainers, you may have to do a bit of sewing on the pelts to lace up the hole.
I'm using the Vmax in my 25-06 and am very pleased. I moly coat the pellet and compress 61.5 grains of Reloader 19. Near as I can tell its squirtin' out at about 36 or 3700 fps. Needless to say, they do a number on a coyote, even at 300 yds.
You know Doug Bethe over at Gypsum?
Later, ---- John
Golly, that name's familiar but can't really say that I do. I don't know that I'm after no pelt damage this year. Prices don't support going extra yards to put a dog down without external damage. In fact, I've got a damage complaint pending where they want the coyotes REALLY dead. I've used softpoints, hollow points, and FMJ's all on coyotes. I can't really see any coyote hit with a slug at 3800 fps running too far, but I'll sure find out.
Mike McDonald
New member
I've been using the 40 gr V-Max bullets lately too. My experience has been that when I shoot a coyote with one, it falls down right then and there. I have not seen any of that "exploding on impact" stuff. I have shot them running and standing still, and when you put it in their chest, it's lights out. It's been the same results from 16 paces out to about 60 yards.
I shot some Moly coated V Maxes at some steel silloette targets today along with some regular HP bullets out of a 22.250. 55 grain bullets. The regular HP bullets almost penetrated the 1/4" steel (with alot of give in the target) but the VMAX bullet put a small dent and desentegrated on impact for the most part. My opinion would be they would penetrate about 2 inches then open up like a softball on a coyote. I will know for sure in a week or so!!!!
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Nothing worse than a coyote freindly gun!!!
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Nothing worse than a coyote freindly gun!!!
Curt Barrett
New member
This comes up about the V-Max every once in awhile. There seem to be some misinformed souls out there. I don't know if the coyotes wear bullet proof jackets in other parts or what but pretty much every coyote I have shot with a V-Max has went bang-flop. I have shot well over 100 coyotes with it and have no complaints. It is one of the most lethal rounds I have used on predators. "Bullet splash" is BS in my opinion. If coyotes are running off after getting hit with a V-Max there is only one explanation. Somebody is one piss-poor shot. That ain't the bullets fault. They may be trying to shoot too far. Don't know. There are some good callers on this board that dump yotes with monotonous regularity with the V-Max. Then there are callers that blame their shortcomings as a caller and marksman on a bullet cuz they read some negative story about the V-Max written by someone else that doesn't have a clue also. Not trying to start an argument. I just am growing weary of the inaccurate info that get's posted on the V-Max. These people need to spend less time changing bullets and more time at the range in my opinion.
howler
New member
the plastic tipped v max bullets were developed for varmints (mostly prairie dogs) and maximum damage to that critter the red mist idea, well they work extremely well on larger varmints like coyote they do what they were designed to do penetrate and expand to the max, the coyote being a larger animal than the PD most if not all damage is inside the critter, a direct hit on the leg to shoulder bone will cause premature expansion and this is only a very small area on the coyotes shoulder other than that the v max or ballistic tips are very good coyote medicine
Hornetfan
New member
Hey Curt,
I have been loading the 40 gr. Hornady balistic tips since about 1996. Almost since Hornady first put them on the market. It's a good accurate little bullet. I have dumped a number of coyotes with this bullet, but it is not my choice for a couple of different reasons 1) pelt damage 2) they are too frangible and will explode when you hit ANY bone. Before you judge a guys shooting abilities maybe you should get to know him first. I have been hunting and trapping coyotes for over 25 years at times doing it for a living. I worked ADC up north for about 5 years and at times was shooting over 100 coyotes a day (helicopter). I still shoot several times a week. I pick my shots and will not take a shot if I think that I will lose an animal. I primarily hunt coyotes with a .22 Hornet and .22 rimfire because I know that I don't need to take a shot much beyond 50 yards. Personally I am not into the red mist factor so I don't have much use for a weightless bullet moving at light speed. I have continued to use the same 45 gr. Hornady bullet that I have loaded for atlest the last 20 years and have found that even a shot placed directly on a shoulder will normally break both shoulders and alot of times exit the animal. I had to chase 1 animal shot with a balistic tip and that was too many for me. It's not that the bullet won't do the job. I just wouldn't recommend it. Just my opinion. There are alot of factors that contribute to a bullets performance and anyone of them can be the difference between dead and wounded. Anyone who says that they have never made a bad shot is full of bull. Curt, I don't need to blame my screw ups on a bullet. I am man enough to admit when I pulled a bad shot and yes I have made some damn lousy shots.
I have been loading the 40 gr. Hornady balistic tips since about 1996. Almost since Hornady first put them on the market. It's a good accurate little bullet. I have dumped a number of coyotes with this bullet, but it is not my choice for a couple of different reasons 1) pelt damage 2) they are too frangible and will explode when you hit ANY bone. Before you judge a guys shooting abilities maybe you should get to know him first. I have been hunting and trapping coyotes for over 25 years at times doing it for a living. I worked ADC up north for about 5 years and at times was shooting over 100 coyotes a day (helicopter). I still shoot several times a week. I pick my shots and will not take a shot if I think that I will lose an animal. I primarily hunt coyotes with a .22 Hornet and .22 rimfire because I know that I don't need to take a shot much beyond 50 yards. Personally I am not into the red mist factor so I don't have much use for a weightless bullet moving at light speed. I have continued to use the same 45 gr. Hornady bullet that I have loaded for atlest the last 20 years and have found that even a shot placed directly on a shoulder will normally break both shoulders and alot of times exit the animal. I had to chase 1 animal shot with a balistic tip and that was too many for me. It's not that the bullet won't do the job. I just wouldn't recommend it. Just my opinion. There are alot of factors that contribute to a bullets performance and anyone of them can be the difference between dead and wounded. Anyone who says that they have never made a bad shot is full of bull. Curt, I don't need to blame my screw ups on a bullet. I am man enough to admit when I pulled a bad shot and yes I have made some damn lousy shots.
JoeF
New member
Gee Curt, did you get up on the wrong side of the bed this AM?
I'm one of the people that have experienced a surface blow up with a V-Max - first hand.
You mentioned shooting too far, I think the opposite is more the problem. I shot a coyote heading straight at me at a range of about 35 yards and placed the shot perfectly.
This was at a very modest 223 velocity.
If I have it scanned I could send you a very graphic picture showing why I tend to avoid them.
Compared to your numerous good results this is a very small sample but I must say that it made an unfavorable impression on me.
Due to the fact that I had called that coyote within about 35 yards I don't think that bullet's failure could be blamed on my inability to call. Due to the fact that the bullet hit exactly where I aimed it; dead center of the chest, I don't think that my markmanship caused that bullet failure.
I don't think they have the build to stand up to much bone at close ranges/high velocity.
The flip side - I have a buddy that loads 40 grain V-Maxes at an absolutely screaming velocity out of a 220 Swift and swears by them. He shoots coyotes that are targets of opportunity - almost always at some very extended ranges. One small hole in, no exit.
I'm setting on hundreds of loaded V-Max rounds left over from a canceled p-dog shoot, perhaps I should give them a fairer shake. I just have to get over what I considered a gross failure in a circumstance where I have seen the more traditionally constructed 52's, 53's, and 55's poke a little hole going in and set the coyote down on the spot w/o much more than a wiggle.
I guess if you shoot any bullet enough you'll see some unexplainable or unexpected performance - maybe I just happened to see it out of the V-Max at the opening bell?
Peace.
I'm one of the people that have experienced a surface blow up with a V-Max - first hand.
You mentioned shooting too far, I think the opposite is more the problem. I shot a coyote heading straight at me at a range of about 35 yards and placed the shot perfectly.
This was at a very modest 223 velocity.
If I have it scanned I could send you a very graphic picture showing why I tend to avoid them.
Compared to your numerous good results this is a very small sample but I must say that it made an unfavorable impression on me.
Due to the fact that I had called that coyote within about 35 yards I don't think that bullet's failure could be blamed on my inability to call. Due to the fact that the bullet hit exactly where I aimed it; dead center of the chest, I don't think that my markmanship caused that bullet failure.
I don't think they have the build to stand up to much bone at close ranges/high velocity.
The flip side - I have a buddy that loads 40 grain V-Maxes at an absolutely screaming velocity out of a 220 Swift and swears by them. He shoots coyotes that are targets of opportunity - almost always at some very extended ranges. One small hole in, no exit.
I'm setting on hundreds of loaded V-Max rounds left over from a canceled p-dog shoot, perhaps I should give them a fairer shake. I just have to get over what I considered a gross failure in a circumstance where I have seen the more traditionally constructed 52's, 53's, and 55's poke a little hole going in and set the coyote down on the spot w/o much more than a wiggle.
I guess if you shoot any bullet enough you'll see some unexplainable or unexpected performance - maybe I just happened to see it out of the V-Max at the opening bell?
Peace.
Absolutely. The couple of times I had explosive problems with the vmax I hit major bone mass in the shoulder area, and large muscle in the rump region, and the middle of the spine. I don't care what you're using, you hit a coyote in the rump you're gonna do some damage and maybe some tracking. I use alot of vmax handloads in my 220 cause like Curt, I love the bang-flop results. I'd love to be a perfect marksman, but I'm not. I'll do what I can with the vmax. I've yet to have one come out the off side.
Rick
Rick
Curt Barrett
New member
Boy that was kind of a whiny post last time wasn't it. I took a pill and am all better now.
I guess all I am really disputing is the statement about having to track down coyotes because of this bullet. The one thing it is not lacking is lethality. For one thing, a hornet is a tad light in the loafers for my tastes but as another said...whatever blows yer skirt up. I'm sorry but if I had any qualms about having to chase coyotes down, I sure as heck would not be using a hornet.
I may be talking out my behind a bit cuz admittedly most of my experience has been with the 50 and 55 gr V-Max so in reality I had no business responding to the topic. Also I wasn't shooting it out of a hornet either. Mainly a 22-250. Again apples to oranges. As I said though my main dispute was with having to track them cuz it has been my experience with the V-Max that even the not so well placed shots, which I have made plenty of, still lay that coyote out flat. That's my #1 priority. I too do ADC work (trapped and snared and yadda yadda, close to 20 year too) and don't want runners either. Exactly why I used the V-Max so long. I will admit it is not the first choice for a fur bullet. Damage varies from messy to none. About 75% of the time there is no visible damage. When I pull a boner fringe shot, yes it can get ugly. I don't want "red mist". That is a term that gets used over and over at another site with the...how did somebody put it..."leg humping minions". It ain't about red mist, just effectiveness.
Anyhow, I didn't mean to imply anybody's calling skills or marksmanship were in need of improvement. That was wrong and yes I did get up on the wrong side of the bed.
[This message has been edited by Curt (edited 11-18-2001).]
I guess all I am really disputing is the statement about having to track down coyotes because of this bullet. The one thing it is not lacking is lethality. For one thing, a hornet is a tad light in the loafers for my tastes but as another said...whatever blows yer skirt up. I'm sorry but if I had any qualms about having to chase coyotes down, I sure as heck would not be using a hornet.
I may be talking out my behind a bit cuz admittedly most of my experience has been with the 50 and 55 gr V-Max so in reality I had no business responding to the topic. Also I wasn't shooting it out of a hornet either. Mainly a 22-250. Again apples to oranges. As I said though my main dispute was with having to track them cuz it has been my experience with the V-Max that even the not so well placed shots, which I have made plenty of, still lay that coyote out flat. That's my #1 priority. I too do ADC work (trapped and snared and yadda yadda, close to 20 year too) and don't want runners either. Exactly why I used the V-Max so long. I will admit it is not the first choice for a fur bullet. Damage varies from messy to none. About 75% of the time there is no visible damage. When I pull a boner fringe shot, yes it can get ugly. I don't want "red mist". That is a term that gets used over and over at another site with the...how did somebody put it..."leg humping minions". It ain't about red mist, just effectiveness.
Anyhow, I didn't mean to imply anybody's calling skills or marksmanship were in need of improvement. That was wrong and yes I did get up on the wrong side of the bed.
[This message has been edited by Curt (edited 11-18-2001).]
Tell you what, that V-Max is a hell of a bullet, depending on what you intend to do with it. As with Curt, I don't use the lighter weights because I believe in matching a bullet to the cartridge. For example, 22-250 and 220 swift will perform better using at least 52 to 64 grain bullets, depending on your twist and other factors. The 40 to 50 grain Bullets, not just V-Max's are more suited to milder chamberings such as has been mentioned, the 223 and possibly the Hornet? But, if you ask the Manufacturer, he will probably admit that these lighter bullets are intended for "varmints" and not necessarily predators.
I happen to use the 75 grain .257 V-Max in a 25'06 Ackley at about 4000fps. This is a serious coyote load. The one thing you can say about the Hornady V-Max is they are uncommonly accurate, nobody says they don't group in their gun. Since I just said it, I suppose somebody, somewhere will dispute that statement!
On the subject of splash wounds, I would (again) normally agree with Curt. However, I have had a very few experiences very similiar to what was related by JoeF. Unfortunately, they weren't with V-Max's, but with standard 244 caliber 68 grain Bergers. Something like ten in a row, so forget about flukes. Why not quit while I was ahead? They were all I had with me, and being stubborn, I just couldn't believe it. Several of them ran off, leaving behind, a real mess. This phenomina has been observed before, and usually does involve bullets that are spinning too fast, so it may be a function of jacket material and twist rate and wear, but it does happen. We need to be aware of it, and deal with it. The easiest way is to use a bullet weight that is suited to the intensity of the cartridge you are using. At least that's the way it looks from here.
Good hunting. LB
I happen to use the 75 grain .257 V-Max in a 25'06 Ackley at about 4000fps. This is a serious coyote load. The one thing you can say about the Hornady V-Max is they are uncommonly accurate, nobody says they don't group in their gun. Since I just said it, I suppose somebody, somewhere will dispute that statement!
On the subject of splash wounds, I would (again) normally agree with Curt. However, I have had a very few experiences very similiar to what was related by JoeF. Unfortunately, they weren't with V-Max's, but with standard 244 caliber 68 grain Bergers. Something like ten in a row, so forget about flukes. Why not quit while I was ahead? They were all I had with me, and being stubborn, I just couldn't believe it. Several of them ran off, leaving behind, a real mess. This phenomina has been observed before, and usually does involve bullets that are spinning too fast, so it may be a function of jacket material and twist rate and wear, but it does happen. We need to be aware of it, and deal with it. The easiest way is to use a bullet weight that is suited to the intensity of the cartridge you are using. At least that's the way it looks from here.
Good hunting. LB
Hornetfan
New member
Hey Curt,
We all have our days. The Hornet, when used with reason and common sense, is an effective predator round. You won't see me taking a shot on a coyote past 100 yards, either. If I think I will be making longer shots than that, I take my .223. That's where that common sense and understanding limitations kick in. I guess you have those cartridges that you fall in love with and those you hate. I have been hunting coyotes with a .22 Hornet since I was 11 years old and I am now staring down the barrel at 40. Just like the V-Max Bullet. I love to shoot them. It's a good accurate bullet and when I go back home to Montana in the summer I load a bunch of them in all of my .22 centerfires for p-dogs and gophers. Myself and some of the others who have posted here have had similar situations using 40 gr. V-Max bullets for coyotes. Similar results have been noted at hornet velocities and at .223 velocities, so I am not really sure it's the fact that I hunt with a Hornet, either. What I do know for fact is that I have other bullets on my loading bench that "I" believe perform better on predators in all of "my" .22 centerfires. If you don't care about hide damage and you are having great success with that bullet out of the particular rifle you choose. Have at it! Glad it works for you. Maybe you choose to use an electronic call and take shots out to 300 yards, but I don't. I like hand calls and keeping my shots under 50 yards.I believe that its all part of the challenge of hunting coyotes, but that doesn't mean that you are wrong for the way you choose to hunt coyotes. As long as a guy isn't letting wounded coyotes run all over the country. I really don't care what he hunts with.
We all have our days. The Hornet, when used with reason and common sense, is an effective predator round. You won't see me taking a shot on a coyote past 100 yards, either. If I think I will be making longer shots than that, I take my .223. That's where that common sense and understanding limitations kick in. I guess you have those cartridges that you fall in love with and those you hate. I have been hunting coyotes with a .22 Hornet since I was 11 years old and I am now staring down the barrel at 40. Just like the V-Max Bullet. I love to shoot them. It's a good accurate bullet and when I go back home to Montana in the summer I load a bunch of them in all of my .22 centerfires for p-dogs and gophers. Myself and some of the others who have posted here have had similar situations using 40 gr. V-Max bullets for coyotes. Similar results have been noted at hornet velocities and at .223 velocities, so I am not really sure it's the fact that I hunt with a Hornet, either. What I do know for fact is that I have other bullets on my loading bench that "I" believe perform better on predators in all of "my" .22 centerfires. If you don't care about hide damage and you are having great success with that bullet out of the particular rifle you choose. Have at it! Glad it works for you. Maybe you choose to use an electronic call and take shots out to 300 yards, but I don't. I like hand calls and keeping my shots under 50 yards.I believe that its all part of the challenge of hunting coyotes, but that doesn't mean that you are wrong for the way you choose to hunt coyotes. As long as a guy isn't letting wounded coyotes run all over the country. I really don't care what he hunts with.
Curt Barrett
New member
Good stuff Leonard and Hornet.
Leonard, excellent observation on the bore and jacket correlation. If you were saying what I think you were, I too have thought the same thing. I know you have forgotten more than I will know about ballistics and such but I have seen the same thing you are talking about. My buddies bolt .223 will shoot Horn 55gr SX bullets fine but my AR will fragment them before reaching the target. The above is kind of an extreme example of what I'm getting at. I'm guessing different twists, variations in bore smoothness etc, can stress the jacket causing premature fragmentation. Hence a wide variation of experiences with the same bullet. I think this condition is pretty much isolated to the thin jacketed bullets which would magnify this phenomena. So I'm guessing if I would have used those SX bullets in my AR I would have experienced bullet splash. Just guessing. Make any sense? S.Frame whatta ya think?
Hornet, looks like I stuck my foot in my mouth again. Not trying to dis your hornet. I know that cal has a loyal following. I don't care for the long shots myself. I like em under a 100 with any cal. rifle if possible.
Take care
Leonard, excellent observation on the bore and jacket correlation. If you were saying what I think you were, I too have thought the same thing. I know you have forgotten more than I will know about ballistics and such but I have seen the same thing you are talking about. My buddies bolt .223 will shoot Horn 55gr SX bullets fine but my AR will fragment them before reaching the target. The above is kind of an extreme example of what I'm getting at. I'm guessing different twists, variations in bore smoothness etc, can stress the jacket causing premature fragmentation. Hence a wide variation of experiences with the same bullet. I think this condition is pretty much isolated to the thin jacketed bullets which would magnify this phenomena. So I'm guessing if I would have used those SX bullets in my AR I would have experienced bullet splash. Just guessing. Make any sense? S.Frame whatta ya think?
Hornet, looks like I stuck my foot in my mouth again. Not trying to dis your hornet. I know that cal has a loyal following. I don't care for the long shots myself. I like em under a 100 with any cal. rifle if possible.
Take care
I had an older fella tell me one time that he was out shooting with a few pals. He was shooting some HOT 22-250 loads through a custom built Savage/Douglas. He shot a few rounds and didnt hit the paper. Shot a few more rounds and found only small deformed holes in the target (100yds) They then figured out that the pressure and heat of the day was causing the bullet to desintegrate half way down to the target. They then shot some more and started seeing puffs of smoke between the gun and target.
The same rounds worked great in the winter.
Go figure.
Boat
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Nothing worse than a coyote freindly gun!!!
The same rounds worked great in the winter.
Go figure.
Boat
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Nothing worse than a coyote freindly gun!!!
varmintslayer
New member
well my brother and I took a little test with the V-MAX, which is what we use anyway, I am using a 55gr. moly coated V-Max, in my 22-250, and i cannot imagine why it would explode on bone and not do some decent damage,plenty enough too take out the little yote. We took some concrete blocks like the ones some old houses are built on and stood them upright at 200yds and shot them man you want to talk about a entry hole "size of a tennis ball" but no exit on the 2nd wall, the dust particles were inbedded in the second wall along with some of the fragmented bullet...
Hey you also mentioned you might be shooting cats with them. I shoot 50 grain v-maxs out of a 22-250. It's hit or miss with a coyote, depeding on if you hit bone or not. If you hit bone, plan on sewing up a BIG entrance hole (although there won't be an exit hole). While I have never shot a cat with one (all of the bobcats I have got have been with a shotgun), I have shot a few grey fox with them. Basiclly, you will have a set of ears and a tail left with the V-max on a fox, and a bobcat being smaller than a coyote, I can imagine quite the same on a cat.