Hey Byron South

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FurMan

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Byron, I have a question for ya.

In the past you said that calling coyotes in TX and PA were very compairable.
Now I recently read an article where you rate PA as one of the toughest states to call in and TX as one of the best.

Whats the deal?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
PA being the one of the toughest and TX being one of the best is ALL ABOUT NUMBERS!!!!!! Having talked about these things with Byron a couple times, I'm sure that is the meaning behind it, if not then I'm sure he'll correct me.

I wouldn't wish having to call coyotes on the East Coast on my worst enemies, but that doesn't mean that some of the terrain isn't similar (some, not all). Thick woods, is thick woods no matter if it's TX, LA, PA or TN. The only thing that changes is that TX has a Bazillion and a half coyotes and from what I've seen, read and heard, PA has none (exageration of course)....

Why wouldn't calling in PA be comparable to calling in East TX where Byron spends most of his time? I've hunted in PA, NJ, GA and TN over the last couple years and not much changes as far as the basics from CA, AZ and NV. Hopefully in another 20 yrs, PA will be one of the easiest states to call a coyotes in also.
 
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Why wouldn't calling in PA be comparable to calling in East TX where Byron spends most of his time?



You answered you own question......Quote:
PA being the one of the toughest and TX being one of the best is ALL ABOUT NUMBERS!!!!!!



Sure calling is calling no matter where you are but, just because the topography is similar does not automatically mean they are comparable.

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Hopefully in another 20 yrs, PA will be one of the easiest states to call a coyotes in also.



I hope not!
I have been at this for over 20 years and have seen it get easier (ie: more productive) in the past 5. Along with the "easiness" has come a horde of callers.
 
" hope not!
I have been at this for over 20 years and have seen it get easier (ie: more productive) in the past 5. Along with the "easiness" has come a horde of callers. "

I have a different opinion. I think we need to encourage new callers and try to help them along with the learning process. That is one of the reasons for this board. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I've called thick stuff right across the country and that the terrain is very similar. Tactics for thick stuff east or west are basically the same. There are also some variables. same applies to calling open stuff.

There isn't one thing that makes one place tougher than the other. It's a combination of things.

Why do you think it is getting easier in the east?

Welcome to Predator Masters. We can always use the wisdom of experienced callers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif Especially those from the east.
Got pics????
 
I knew a pair of twin sisters once, one was way easier than the other.

I guess we just have a different outlook on comparable. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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PA being the one of the toughest and TX being one of the best is ALL ABOUT NUMBERS!!!!!! Having talked about these things with Byron a couple times, I'm sure that is the meaning behind it, if not then I'm sure he'll correct me.


I'm sure soreloser is dead on with this one. The numbers alone would make the hunting in PA more difficult than hunting in TX.


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I wouldn't wish having to call coyotes on the East Coast on my worst enemies, but that doesn't mean that some of the terrain isn't similar (some, not all).



To some extent I have to disagree on this one. I'm in Tennessee (not on the east coast but I am in the east) & the predator hunting could be better but it's not that bad. It's not uncommon to kill 1 coyote for every 4 or 5 stands, from what I've read about the west this is fairly compareable to some areas. True, we're not ever going to have coyote numbers like California or Arizona but you can still kill a few dogs if you do your homework.

The east is just like the west, some areas hold several coyotes & others hold very few. The terrain is just as diverse.
 
FurMan,

You have heard only part of what I have said. Texas is a big state. Not all of Texas has lots of coyotes. In fact there are parts of PA that probably has as many if not more that certain parts of Texas. I don't expect you to believe that and don't realy care if you do.

Now as a whole Texas has way more coyotes than PA, come to think about it Texas probably has more coyotes than just about any other state. Trouble is I'm on the side of the state that that is very thick and hilly. We do have lots of coyotes here but not a lot compared to South and West Texas. It wasn't many years ago though we didn't have many coyotes at all. Back then it was much more like PA. I grew up hunting this terrain and low numbers. That is why I can compare it to PA.

In the past I've got my fair share of heckling from PA guys as well as guys from a few other eastern states (Mostly PA though). The common theme is these guys think they know all about Texas..Most think the state is all open South Western terrain. It is not. Along these same lines they assume I don't know what it is like hunting in the East. Well I do have first hand knowledge of both PA and Texas (East and West). This I feel gives me at least a little credibility when I make these comparisons.

Now I hope this better explains what you read. On a side note. Judd Cooney is a great friend of mine and also a very good writer. What he wrote is his interpritation of what I said. In his and your deffense I would put Texas AS A WHOLE in the top 3 states in which to call. I would also put PA dead last. Be careful what you read and apply a little common since. Pretty hard to be specific in a magazine article and stay under 2000 words. This is why most articles focus on gereralities.

I gather you may also want to debate this further. I wish I had time. I'm trying to finish up work now as I'm taking my kids out on a mini vacation (first in two years). I won't be back until Thursday. If you still have questions about what I have said I will be glad to debate it with you then.

Good Hunting, and God Bless,

Byron
 
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To some extent I have to disagree on this one.



I know, I know... It was my slight attempt at humor in a thread that I think might have more going on behind the scenes than just the intended questions.

When I am back in that part of the country not being able to see for miles really gets me itchy, plus the bugs, humidity, rain, etc.

My fathers deer lease just outside of Dayton is covered in coyotes, so I know they are there. Maybe not in the amount of other states, but they are there.
 
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" hope not!
I have been at this for over 20 years and have seen it get easier (ie: more productive) in the past 5. Along with the "easiness" has come a horde of callers. "

I have a different opinion. I think we need to encourage new callers and try to help them along with the learning process. That is one of the reasons for this board. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Amen Brother /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

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Now I hope this better explains what you read. On a side note. Judd Cooney is a great friend of mine and also a very good writer. What he wrote is his interpritation of what I said. In his and your deffense I would put Texas AS A WHOLE in the top 3 states in which to call. I would also put PA dead last. Be careful what you read and apply a little common since. Pretty hard to be specific in a magazine article and stay under 2000 words. This is why most articles focus on gereralities.Byron



I have to agree with what is being said about what you read. Being an outdoor writer a lot of what we write gets twisted around by non hunting editors. I have been interviewed for articles as well they are even worse; I said this, he wrote that, the editor changes it to what he thinks it should say and the reader is reading a flat sheet of paper which leaves even more to the imagination depending on what side of the fence you are on or in this case river.
 
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I know, I know... It was my slight attempt at humor in a thread that I think might have more going on behind the scenes than just the intended questions.





Gotcha /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif


If you make another "road trip" through Tennessee give me a shout, I think we should be able to find a few "elusive" eastern coytoes.
 

Byron,
Thanks for the explanation.
I was not looking for a debate, I found the article to contradict what I've heard you say.


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You have heard only part of what I have said. Texas is a big state. Not all of Texas has lots of coyotes. In fact there are parts of PA that probably has as many if not more that certain parts of Texas. I don't expect you to believe that and don't realy care if you do.


Why would I not believe you?
Every state has "thick & thin" areas.

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Now as a whole Texas has way more coyotes than PA, come to think about it Texas probably has more coyotes than just about any other state. Trouble is I'm on the side of the state that that is very thick and hilly. We do have lots of coyotes here but not a lot compared to South and West Texas. It wasn't many years ago though we didn't have many coyotes at all. Back then it was much more like PA. I grew up hunting this terrain and low numbers. That is why I can compare it to PA.


You are right, at one time it probably was like PA is now. The other problem is, that most likely will never change is the size of the farms/ranches in TX compared to PA. That is a HUGE factor when comparing the two. That alone has an effect on populations, habits, behavior, ect.

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In the past I've got my fair share of heckling from PA guys as well as guys from a few other eastern states (Mostly PA though). The common theme is these guys think they know all about Texas..Most think the state is all open South Western terrain. It is not. Along these same lines they assume I don't know what it is like hunting in the East. Well I do have first hand knowledge of both PA and Texas (East and West). This I feel gives me at least a little credibility when I make these comparisons.



I know you (among others) have and you take like a man and respond well.
What are you numbers (rough guess) for:
East TX ?
West TX ?
PA ?

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I gather you may also want to debate this further. I wish I had time. I'm trying to finish up work now as I'm taking my kids out on a mini vacation (first in two years). I won't be back until Thursday. If you still have questions about what I have said I will be glad to debate it with you then.


Maybe I do want to debate this a little after all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Have a fun and safe vacation.
 
You can draw a line through Texas. Most of East Texas (East of I 45) is going to be VERY similar to the rest of the Eastern US.

The average property size in East Texas is probably around 100-200 acres or less.

How does that compare to PA?

There are no 50,000 acre ranches in East Texas. There are a few large timber company properties in South East Texas (more where I am), but they are thick as heck, and even they are starting to get broken up as many of the large timber companies have gone by the way side.
 
FurMan,

Sorry if I seemed a little on the deffensive. I've had my words parced pletty of times to the point I would think who the heck would say such a thing only to see the quote atributed to me. Judd however wrote what I said pretty close but I was speaking in general terms. Texas is a great state to call coyotes but is very diverse.

There are also those "got ya" types out there on the net that like to play word games. I apologize for jumping to that conclusion with your honest question.

Where I live here in East Texas it is split up quiet a bit into small farms. Most places I have access to are not but 15 to maybe 40 acres. I do have access to one place that is 6000 and the place next to it is 4000, but those size places are very rare here. We compete with lots of people after not many deer too. The deer hunting here is horrible. most hunters will shoot the first buck they see and it is usualy a yearling. It is very rare to see deer in the daytime. Much like the coyotes, many people also believe the deer hunting all over Texas is great. If I was to speak in general terms Texas has some of the best whitetail deer hunting on the planet too. It just is not East Texas. In fact East if I didn't live here I wouldn't hunt here at all. Like you I have hunted for many years. I've been aflicted with this calling bug for most if not all of them. This afliction has carried me to all corners of Texas as well as about twenty other states. Please pardon me if I get a little defensive when what I say gets misunderstood.

Maybe some of the other on here that have either hunted East Texas or been through here can vouch for the similarity of terrain and demographis here vs much of the East.

Got to run...Have a Great week.

Byron
 
if I find a spot that has over 50 acres to it I am happy. not many areas around here are big. I have three farms out of the 30 or so I hunt that are over 100 acres. I have other big areas to hunt but that is big woods of state forest. I don't know what texas is like but from what I heard from people that have hunted there. there is no comparison to how many coyotes are called in per stand. I would rather the fox stick around and you can have the coyotes. to many people around these parts want to hunt "yotes" because they think that is the reason why the deer heard is thin. there are also alot of times that I have caught people callin the farms I have permision on and I am the only one allowed to hunt it. kinda hard to hunt farms that have been called every weekend for five weeks straight just to kill "yotes" JMHO.
 
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I don't know what texas is like but from what I heard from people that have hunted there. there is no comparison to how many coyotes are called in per stand.



In my area, it is stands per coyote and not coyotes per stand.

I have called all day, and never seen or heard a coyote.
 
Pressure,Pressure,Pressure, Pressure, Pressure

Texas is the 2 largest state with 268,601 square miles. total hunters 1.1 million

Pennsylvania is 33 with 46,058 square miles. total hunters 1 million

what is the average use of your privet land there also??????

when it comes to hunting AND wildlife there is no place in Texas like anywhere in PA

terrain and habitat differences or similarity have nothing to do with how many coyote we do or dont kill
Pressure,Pressure,Pressure, Pressure, Pressure

somthing ells you may wont to look st,
Texas bow hunting lic sales is 75,000
Pennsylvania bow hunting lic sales is 255,188
 
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There's places in Texas where the hunters outnumber the game they are hunting.

I know of areas in East Texas you would be hard pressed to find a deer or coyote.

One reason Texas has fewer hunters (per land area) is the fact that it is private land, & land owners charge for hunting it.

I have seen the wrath of "free" hunting on public lands...
The "hunters" in a lot of cases don't leave the right of way of the roads, or the comfort of their vehicles.
Why they wear camo is beyond me...

George, what's the number of deer allowed in PA when you purcahse a lic.?

Texas has varying limits, designated by county, but you can get 5-6 deer per license in Texas. If you have 3-4 family memebers that hunt, that adds up to lots of deer.

Even at those numbers, the deer herd in Central Texas is way over populated. It also contains inferior bucks, and the herd in general would benefit from a good selictive culling of epic proportions.

Urban sprawl is responsible for a lot of the problem, because counties in the area have adopted laws that prohibit shooting or hunting on tracts of land less than 10 or 20 acres.

In those suburban subdivisions the old ladies feel the need to feed the deer in the back yard. They mostly feed corn, which has little nutritional value.
Can't tell them they hurting the herd though...

Texas has many geographical areas. Woods, plains, desert, coastal wetlands....

Not all areas have many deer or coyotes.
To speak of "Texas" as a comparison to another state is apples & oranges.
 
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George, what's the number of deer allowed in PA when you purcahse a lic.?




1 buck 1 doe,

in small area around the city you can harvest all the doe you like or should i say 1 for each tag you buy.
you can also get deer damage permits and left over tags

apples & oranges. your right there

most of your property is privet .
privet property = less pressure . less pressure = more critters

you can hunt most of PA, there is over 3-1/2 million Acers of public hunting in PA

pressure is the factor

 
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Texas has varying limits, designated by county, but you can get 5-6 deer per license in Texas. If you have 3-4 family memebers that hunt, that adds up to lots of deer.





here also,, 3-4 in a family hunting deer here can harvest unlimited amount of deer if they chose to at 6 dollars a deer.

you have to see that having 1 million hunters and then you have the fisherman , hikers , bird watchers ,
snowmobiles, 4 wheelers and horse riders in the same track of land you are trying to out wit a coyote has to make some difference in the coyotes human experience

and i bet there are a hundreds of coyotes killed in east texas to every one killed 1 in the hole state

speaking of deer why do the Texans harvest so many book deer??????

Just so you have a idea i know a little bit about the great state of texas,
I have called predators in just about every county south of and including San Antonio, Webb Perusal ,Eagle Pass,Uvadale ,Laredo west of 35 Sabinal and Marfa Texas, north of Dallas out side Amarillo,east of Houston around Huntsville

I called more cats and coyotes in these countys in texas then i have in my 30 years of calling Pennsylvania and i live 2000 miles away /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
and i ant saying texas is easy just better for apredator hunter/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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