Super yoter issues

Both uppers are set up the same? I had a handguard give me fits on a build. Just spitballing. Sounds like you've gone through everything possible. I'd have to swap scopes on the uppers as a last ditch try.
 
V223, that's tough for sure. Seems like you've had more than your share of thermal scopes that won't hold zero for you.

I shot my rifle yesterday to check zero. First time I've checked it since around the first of Nov. The following picture is from the last shot in November. As you can see it was just slightly low and right of dead center. The HVAC is 4 stripes cut out of one width about a foot long to make the crosshairs.

IMG_20220124_165927098 by Double Up, on Flickr

Yesterday after sundown before leaving to go hunting. I fired one shot. It was just over an inch higher than the shot in early Nov. which with change in temps and weather seemed reasonable over an almost 3 month period. It hit just left of center on the HVAC. I marked the shot in Nov. after I covered it with HVAC with a permanent marker.

The second shot you see was from this morning. It was cloudy and pretty heavy overcast with light wind, so I shot again with a cold barrel just like yesterday. It hit just to the right of yesterday's shot and the two could have been covered with a dime.

IMG_20220125_112411328 by Double Up, on Flickr

I had some test loads with 50 grain ballistic tips and 50 Speer TNT that I wanted to shoot so I shot those and also shot at 150 and 200 as well as the 100. So now with the rifle and suppressor warmed I fired a third shot (also 50 V-max) at the target. I didn't think to take a picture, but it was just slightly below the left hole and the 3 holes would have been covered by a nickel for sure. So I feel confident that it has held zero pretty well and I didn't make any changes. The best group was with the 50 Speer TNT and they clover-leafed.
 
I think the next step for me is figuring out how in good conscience I dump a scope with the issues I'm having? I have no faith in bering making in right and I'm not one to unload junk in a dishonest manner. I can't see it being a big seller here lol and I don't do Facebook. From the four I've had experience with they all shift like mine and not one of the owners is happy. I'm just glad the warranty is transferable.

DU it looks like your groups shifted up a bit more than I would be comfy with but atleast it stayed there. Mine changed ,2.5" in 15 min.

From what I understand Bering can't test the units and basically told me they just put a new objective lens in problematic ones and hope for the best. Speaking from my personal experience with both the units and customer service my advice to anyone looking to dump hard earned money into gun mounted thermal is to avoid Bearing like the plague.

I think between my main hunting partner and myself we've had 12 thermal scope between us since 2017 and the only two that have held are my current Trail 2 and my partners original Apex xd38a or whatever those first units were called. The original Trails were a nightmare but my experience with these Yoters has been no better.
 
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As I said, you've had more than your share of scopes not holding zero. I think I would contact the dealer and ask for a refund or perhaps apply the full amount to another brand which you could then sell without ever putting it on a rifle. That way you could have a clear conscious about selling.

I've only had 3 thermals, the two Apex 50's and this one. Never had a minute's problem with holding zero on the Apex scopes. The SY gave me some issues at first, but I was determined to be sure if it was the scope, the rifle, or the mount. In the end after numerous times of adjusting the LaRue mount, switching to a daytime optic to be sure it wasn't the rifle and even switching rifles, cleaning the rifle and then cleaning it again. I determined that it was the rifle plus I have a feeling that some of my initial issue was not getting the front of the LaRue mount pushed forward tight against the rail before camming it.

Anyway, it worked out for me, but I can feel your frustrations with your experience with them.
 
I might try it on my 6x6.8 or my stag model 6 just to back up the fact it isn't the rifle. However, I think I will post it in the classifieds if anyone is interested in a good price on a thermal and is so sure it is my ammo, my shooting or my rifle that is at fault lol.
 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223I might try it on my 6x6.8 or my stag model 6 just to back up the fact it isn't the rifle. I would do the opposite. I would put a glass scope on the same gun. If you shoot in varying temp conditions, at the same distance, with the same gun, and with the same ammo as your thermal scope, you have totally proved it is either the scope or the mount of the scope. Adding a 2nd gun may be helpful but if it doesn't shoot, then you are back to you should test a glass scope on that gun. Temp plays a factor on more things than just thermals. Barrels, ammo, stocks, etc can all be impacted by changes in temp. This is why you want to keep all the variables as close to the same as possible and take the thermal out of the equation and replace it with a glass scope.

I have had times where I was sure it was the scope and putting a known glass scope on the rifle proved the issue was the scope and I have had it prove the issue was in the rifle/ammo/suppressor, etc.

If you put a glass scope on and the test confirms it truly is the scope and/or mount, and since you feel you have exhausted your options with Bering, I would contact your dealer to see if you can get a credit towards a different optic.

One more thing I don't know if I mentioned, but have you checked the tightness of the screws under the mount? I have only seen this one time before where this was the culprit, but it is worth checking if you haven't. If this was the culprit, I would anticipate the scope not grouping vs a shift, but check it in case.
 
I had day glass back on the rifle to test but never got around to it before I got the replacement unit back but I can put it on easy enough and test it.

Problem is we've had consistent cold temps here and my zeroing and most of my testing has been in a small temp window. Only other temp was out of the house temp.

I can zero in the cold and then the next day it's high in the cold and dead on warm. It makes no sense.


 
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I just wonder if we’re being a bit unrealistic on the expectations of thermal. Your seeing an image, not the real thing like a regular scope or nv. Every time it nucs things change to keep the image sharp. I’ve been shooting scopes for 50 years and consider it good to shoot inch groups at a hundred with a regular scope, and that’s 6.5 -20 leupold . I could see the if it’s jumping 3-4 inches but a half inch I think is getting to picky. It is and image.
 
Originally Posted By: HeymartayI just wonder if we’re being a bit unrealistic on the expectations of thermal. Your seeing an image, not the real thing like a regular scope or nv. Every time it nucs things change to keep the image sharp. I’ve been shooting scopes for 50 years and consider it good to shoot inch groups at a hundred with a regular scope, and that’s 6.5 -20 leupold . I could see the if it’s jumping 3-4 inches but a half inch I think is getting to picky. It is and image.

You think we are being unrealistic to expect that a weapon sighting device costing $3k, $4k, $5k, $6k, or even $9k+ hits where we are aiming?!! Spend $3k on a day optic and see what you get. Heck, you don't even have to spend that much to get something fantastic in a day optic. I'm with you on a half inch or so. Many shooters can't even shoot well enough to tell the difference in that much shift. However, most of my rifles shoot in the .3 - .5s and when the sight is 3" off from where I left it or moves 3" when the adjustment I made is supposed to move it .5" (if it moves at all), then I don't think it is unrealistic to be upset about that. If it won't hit what I'm aiming at.......first of all I wouldn't consider it ethical to hunt with, and secondly it's not worth more than a paper weight, unless all you want to do is see in the dark. If that's the case, then buy a $20 Maglite and be done with it.
 
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Hopefully, V223 will proceed with testing his rifle with a day scope. That way he can eliminate whether the rifle is shooting consistent groups testing just like he did with the SY. Then it is narrowed down for certain to either the SY or the SY LaRue mount. That is really the only for sure way to know. If it is the scope or mount then he won't know for sure which one, but for sure it is one or the other, and since it comes as a unit would still require a refund in my opinion.
 
Well said DoubleUp. Per Heymartay's comment, yes thermal tech isn't as accurate as glass scopes or people would use them in shooting competitions. Let's say the group moves 2" when shooting from day to day with thermal. If you use a glass scope and shoot at the same distance from the same rests with similar changes in temp, with the same gun and same ammo, and let's say the POI moves 1". You have proven the gun's POI is moving on both. The precision of thermal could explain a little more lack of accuracy. If the glass scope shoots the same POI multiple times with no shift, then the gun/ammo is not the culprit.

One other potential culprit is since with thermal you are shooting at an image as Heymartay mentioned, shooting at a consistent thermal target is important, but we have been down this rabbit hole before on this thread.

Recreating the test with a glass scope is the easiest way to know if the culprit is the thermal scope/mount. If it is the thermal, talk to your dealer and/or Bering (which V223 already did), get it replaced (which V223 already did), or get it refunded or credit towards a different thermal.
 
I will try to get day glass on the rifle this evening and test the rifle/ammo combo. I think this mount/Leupold scope combo was the one I had on it and zeroed prior to purchasing the yoter.

I will install the day scope, shoot it warm and then leave it and the ammo sit on the bench for 15 minutes and shoot again. I'm not going to adjust the scope at anytime since the crosshair should be settled in. I will only worry about group position.

I will either A. Look like the biggest jackazz on the interweb or
B. Prove my yoter is faulty.
I'm almost hope to eat crow lol. Wouldn't that be great for the thermal world.
I'm here to figure things out not run my mouth so I will gets us some test results.
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223I will install the day scope, shoot it warm and then leave it and the ammo sit on the bench for 15 minutes and shoot again. I'm not going to adjust the scope at anytime since the crosshair should be settled in. I will only worry about group position.

I will either A. Look like the biggest jackazz on the interweb or
B. Prove my yoter is faulty.
I'm almost hope to eat crow lol. Wouldn't that be great for the thermal world.
I'm here to figure things out not run my mouth so I will gets us some test results. I would shoot it on at least two separate days or night with hopefully a temp difference.
 
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