changing game

Originally Posted By: crapshootOriginally Posted By: skinney
KillBOX is now trademarked.

The name or the design?
wink.gif


Hmmm... Both
thumbup.gif
 
Originally Posted By: YellowhammerA lot of the arguments I am hearing about thermals/night hunting causing more poaching is the same arguments people use to try and shut down concealed carry or even gun ownership.



Never heard anything even remotely similar.

Quote:
“If you are allowed to carry a gun in a convenience store or bank, you are going to be more likely to rob the place!”

Does that make sense? No.

I don't see any relevance in comparison of robbing an establishment and night hunting.

Quote:Do lights or thermals make it easier for poachers to do what they do? Yes, of course. But it doesn’t make more poachers.

Make things easier with little chance of being seen or caught and many new people will cross the line.
I could recite many more true examples which you could likely replicate.
I know far to many wealthy businessmen that will buck up the money for a hunt and equipment and forego getting license because they don't plan on getting caught.
Or the group of police officers that were arrested for poaching, or the other group of police officers that are under investigation for trespass/poaching.
This thread was not created to ban anything.
This thread was created to bring to light some real situations that are happening locally with the use of night hunting equipment and being discussed among local landowners, law enforcement, and game officials.
All of which are my friends.

I get to use and enjoy night equipment legally as posted and enjoy good technology.
 
Originally Posted By: tripod3

Awful strong unfounded grasping opinions there, sounds like you may not be a qualified hunter with your representations of little knowledge.
Maybe your game dept offers some courses on game identification and you could improve yourself and your dumb, dumb opinions.

Lol again where is the proof of all this poaching going on now that thermal and NV is legal?

It is the exact same as trying to ban firearms because there is a chance they are used unlawfully. Just like thermal or NV might be used unlawfully so we better ban them.

I’ll say it again. Dumb thread is dumb.
 
Originally Posted By: dirtytoughOriginally Posted By: tripod3

Awful strong unfounded grasping opinions there, sounds like you may not be a qualified hunter with your representations of little knowledge.
Maybe your game dept offers some courses on game identification and you could improve yourself and your dumb, dumb opinions.

Lol again where is the proof of all this poaching going on now that thermal and NV is legal?

It is the exact same as trying to ban firearms because there is a chance they are used unlawfully. Just like thermal or NV might be used unlawfully so we better ban them.

I’ll say it again. Dumb thread is dumb.


Quote:Lol again where is the proof of all this poaching going on now that thermal and NV is legal?

Again, thermal and nv has always been legal here, not that you would know that. And the fact that it is going on is why the conversations have started as the arrests have started locally.

Quote:It is the exact same as trying to ban firearms because there is a chance they are used unlawfully. Just like thermal or NV might be used unlawfully so we better ban them.

Another ignorant comparison
Exact to what? Who said Ban? You have already stated that you have trouble identifying animals and can't seem to grasp the point of the thread so I can only assume you are one of those poachers getting something in a wad while trying to make this into a dumb thread by dragging it down to your level of IQ and lack of hunting abilities.

Here are some legal definitions for you.

From Wikipedia, Poaching has been defined as the illegal hunting or capturing of wild animals, usually associated with land use rights.

Britannica, Poaching, in law, the illegal shooting, trapping, or taking of game, fish, or plants from private property or from a place where such practices are specially reserved or forbidden.

Dictionary.com, noun. the illegal practice of trespassing on another's property to hunt or steal game without the landowner's permission. any encroachment on another's property,



 
Last edited:
I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the ignorant comparisons being used as extremes to create an argument that isn't there.

Comparing this to a criminal activity that implies firearm threat of personal human injury or life to other people or risks of banning use is ridiculous.

Most all of us use vehicles to access hunting.
Manufacturers now produce and sell factory vehicles with 500 to 1000 horsepower capable of over 200 mph. Far more than is needed for most any daily transportation use.
Does this mean the temptation won't be used to speed because it is illegal to speed, NO.
There are tickets being issued all over the country at record speeds now.
Pursuits by police are being abandoned for public safety reasons, The exact reasons the speed limit law is implemented to begin with..
Have you ever broken the law and sped to get somewhere sooner. Have you ever bragged a little how quick you got somewhere by speeding even though you clearly know it's breaking the law.
Government entities have got great technology and expensive equipment and techniques to catch and fine or arrest speed violators.
For hunting, poaching violators, officials have the same tech as hunters but it may be as little as one officer per thousands of hunter afield or one officer per hundreds of square miles.
Does it increase the temptation to violate the law? Definitely.

Some of the biggest violators here locally and across the state have been wealthy businessmen. Some of them have beat charges of violating blatantly obvious laws harvesting prize game.
Do these guys speed too, bet so.
One of the underlying points is NV/thermal is starting to change the game and temptations.
Many guys want to categorize "poacher" like a murderer for sake of argument, when it might knowingly be their hunting partner or brother, but don't think much about them speeding either.
Another noticeable change is in the coyotes that many of us are noticing since NV has become more common.
The game dept has been working for decades to reduce road access for hunting to increase escapement. I don't see the counter action to thermal.
A good friend and game warden personally categorizes three types of hunting poaching violators, accidental, opportunist, and intentional.
Very few of these are a Claude Dallas like some of you want to imply.
I believe there are a bunch of opportunists that will justify their actions with anything that makes it easier. Like the lady that totaled my car sitting at a stop sign while she was doing over twice the speed limit, after all she was late for church!
 
1. Have you ever used a thermal?

2. Do you actually have any proof that there is more poaching because of thermal or NV?

My guess is no to both. Definitely not #2 or you would have posted it already.

BTW I lived in that ....hole state for almost 30 years. I know the game laws there just fine.
 
Well I can tell you are a poacher now looking hard for an out.
And yes I have used both thermal and night vision.
Farmers purchase them and let me use them when hunting their place, one of them laying right next to me on their gun with their ammo.
This has been posted in previous posts and I have a great record of honesty integrity and performance with tons of pics for many years.
Where is your poaching record

If you know the game laws so well you would know the #1 game violation here is loaded gun in/on vehicle which spells a lot of poachers.
People will and do use any tech advantage to get bragging right kills.
This thread was brought on by personal conversations with large landowners and state game officials, this is not a court of law and if it were your bogus laughable Exact comparisons wouldn't get anywhere.
 
Quote:If you know the game laws so well you would know the #1 game violation here is loaded gun in/on vehicle which spells a lot of poachers.

That may well be the "#1 game violation" there. That is not even illegal in Texas and a lot of other states.

I understand your point that some people will use thermals for illegal activity, and you are just letting us know that. If you have another point, I am not sure what it is.
 
Originally Posted By: YellowhammerQuote:If you know the game laws so well you would know the #1 game violation here is loaded gun in/on vehicle which spells a lot of poachers.

That may well be the "#1 game violation" there. That is not even illegal in Texas and a lot of other states.

I understand your point that some people will use thermals for illegal activity, and you are just letting us know that. If you have another point, I am not sure what it is.

Thanks I think it is a moot point now.
 
There probably isn't anymore poachers because of thermals and night vision but the chances of catching them has gone way down. Poaching isn't just shooting a deer illegally to fill the freezer, but harvesting trophy bucks to sell a really big set of horns can turn a good profit. When I lived in MN there was a regular circuit that a semi would make and pick up poached deer, the meat was used at a local sausage plant
 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: tripod3Well I can tell you are a poacher now looking hard for an out.



how in the world did you come to that conclusion? good grief.

That's exactly what I asked and was promptly ignored.
 
I love using thermal but also worry this equipment could be used by poachers.

One thing to remember is technology works both ways in criminal justice. A major poacher in our area was just sentenced and the warden used multiple forms of technology that revealed a ton of evidence. Technology that would have never been available not too long ago.
 
Last edited:
This is how the anti's, hunting and 2nd amendment win so much, I can no longer hunt Bobcats at night because of it probably only a matter of time before you cant hunt coyotes at night. The antis get to gether with the public land hunters and say look at these guys hunting trophy game inside this private high fence only rich people get to hunt there, it not fair because it's not real hunting.
And so on and so forth until like one person said your in your backyard shooting a cardboard coyote with a slingshot. It's not the role of man to rule over other men. Stay in your lane, hunt however you think is the best way for you and quit worrying about people you cant control.
 
It is always amusing when someone chooses to post an opinion on a public forum, and then gets upset because everyone doesn't agree with them. Antler hunters aren't using thermal because antlers only show well during velvet. They may be using NV which has been available for a much longer time, and game populations didn't crash.

If you want a real challenge come to the east and try hunting coyotes in the daytime. Then you might have a little more appreciation for thermal.

So my conclusion is:

beating-a-dead-horse by Double Up, on Flickr
 
And then call another member a poacher!

Got to thinking about this more and the only instances I know of were actually instances where thermal hunters witnessed crimes - go figure!

IME the people who invest in this equipment do so because they are passionate about the sport and want to enjoy it to the fullest. Not because they can't call coyotes in the daylight or because they want to poach. The guys I know who have thermals were also the best daylight callers I knew.
 
Last edited:
Would never be appreciative of them, to me there is a lot more to coyote/predator hunting than killing them, and a lot of that has to do with what else goes on, scenery, other game, the list goes on. If I had to drive around in the dark and see everything in shades of green or grey predator hunting wouldn't intertest me in the slightest.

Yes I have night hunter but moonlight over the snow, fox in northern MN.
 
Originally Posted By: AWSWould never be appreciative of them, to me there is a lot more to coyote/predator hunting than killing them, and a lot of that has to do with what else goes on, scenery, other game, the list goes on. If I had to drive around in the dark and see everything in shades of green or grey predator hunting wouldn't intertest me in the slightest.

This right here is why I don't get bothered that we can't night hunt in NM. I've done it AZ and TX. It's okay, and a fun way to whack a pig and put meat in the freezer and control problem animals. However, as AWS states, there is so much more to my predator calling outings than just making a fuzzy thing dead. I'd skip night calling for the same reason I carry a bino on every stand - I want to see it all! I want to soak it in. Luxuriate in the experience of the hunt. I like to see, to gaze upon nature and all its glory. Yes, that sounds cheesy, but that's why I go. A dead thing is secondary to the overall experience. When night hunting I felt so restrained, so closed in, so limited, like driving down an overgrown trail and only seeing the tunnel. I suppose that's an extension of my love for open spaces and long vistas.

I certainly don't begrudge those with the opportunity to night hunt doing it. It's just not for me. I also don't believe that the prevalence of night vision, thermal, and suppressors will cause a dramatic increase in poaching. Sure, a few opportunists may stretch a litter farther than they would have before, but as many have already said, a poacher is gonna poach regardless, and honest folks will stay honest. There is so much land where I hunt, and so few wardens to patrol it, that most of us here could get away with virtually anything if we're smart about it. We don't because we're honest, conservation-minded sportsmen, not poachers.

Does NV and thermal hunting make coyotes smarter? Not sure about that. I know they've been whacking them in TX with spotlights and NV for years, and good callers still seem to bring them in by the truckload.
 
Back
Top