.223 not cutting it for coyotes

Originally Posted By: The SurgeonI've shot all 11 of my coyotes with a .223 55 Grain V-Max. I did have one that ran off that I couldn't find but I believe I had poor shot placement on that one. The rest were DRT.

Casey

Using quality ammunition.

Nice job. Keep stackin em
 
Was recently watching PA outdoors and was surprised at the # of youth hunters that shot deer with a .223. If a .223 can kill a deer it certainly can kill a coyote, shot placement and bullet type are where to start. If you want to go bigger I would go to a .243, and if that doesn't work my next choice would be a .35 Whelen loaded with .357 240gr Hornady XTP jacketed hollow points, they shouldn't go anywhere then!
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If I was going AR 10 I would go 22" 243.
It would be like a meat saw. As a matter of fact I have an upper on backorder.
22 Nosler and 50s at 3600 is doing the trick for me though. 223 is a little weak for marginal hits. I like an edge when I can get it.
 
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Bad shots and it is a caliber problem??? Bigger caliber isn’t going to help if you can’t make good shots
 
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It's surprising a shot to the shoulder with softpoints isn't going through and hitting the important stuff. I've always had really good luck with SP's in my .223's. Then again I don't believe I've shot any of that particular brand.

I don't know what would remedy the shots to the guts and legs without the same result. I've seen them run away after taking a hit from the .308,243,22-250 and some others with hits to the gut. Anything from rib cage to the head have always had the best results for me. If you're shooting them walking or running straight away from you and want them dead on the spot I'd go with a .243 or .308 but that's just me.

 
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Originally Posted By: Pantera55gr Remington UMC softpoint, I've had better luck with a properly placed .17 HMR.I agree with your assessment that you'd be better off with a properly placed 17HMR than with poorly placed UMC softpoints in the stomach and legs.
 
If you don't reload and want to go to something bigger but stay in the AR15 instead of go to the AR10 take look at the 6.5grendel. But use quality ammo. Heck the they also make a nice raccoon round also.
 
I've gone as light as 45 grain Sierra Varminters, and still haven't had any problems with .223 getting the job done. Even if my shot placement is off, coyotes I've hit tend to do that thing where they run in a circle and try to bite whatever bit them - and that usually gives me enough time to send a couple more. I can honestly say I've never tagged a raccoon with a .223, but the last time I hit a possum, it left a .22 entry wound and a pile of entrails on the other side. I gotta agree with everyone else here. You might need to try different ammo. Sure, I've had some rifles that shoot Remington UMC OK, but I've always had doubts about the terminal performance of those really cheap bullets.
 
A little side note

Rem 308 150gr SP's

I was still hunting deer in northern WI and spotted a nice buck working his way down a ridge toward me so hunkered down and waited as he passed me I shot him at 8 feet in the chest right behind the elbow, perfect hear/lung shot. He took off like a scalded cat, I couldn't believe he didn't drop or at least show signs of being hit, I didn't even take a second shot expecting him to drop. Good snow I thought I'd track him and get a second chance. About 40 yards away I started seeing flecks of blood on the snow at 60 some large patches that looked like he was coughing it up and another 40 yards and he was laying in the snow with a wound on his side the size of a dinner plate at first thought it was an exit wound and I actually stood there looking for another hunter after thinking about that I hadn't heard a shot examined the deer a little further and found the bullet had splashed on a rib and just a few pieces of jacket has sliced through the lungs. I wrote it up to being way to close. I drug him back to the truck and headed out with a couple more doe tags in my pocket.

I picked up a nice set of tracks and started to work them. A couple hours into it I could see the doe and yearling were going into thick black spruce thickets and circling to the downwind side and circling back behind me as I followed them through. I finally got to one of the thickets and started in then backed out and circled to the down wind side and waited and sure enough here they come walking straight to me watching the thicket at 20 yards I held on her neck in a straight line to the top of the heart, she went down but when I got to her it looked like someone had taped an M-80 to her throat and blew out a chunk of meat and wind pipe the size of a large softball. When gutting her there was zero penetration another bullet had exploded with out penetrating.

After I got her to the truck I tossed the rest of the ammo in the creek and went to town and found a box of my beloved 180gr RN's. Everything was just fine after that, never could get myself to use 150gr SP out of a 308 after that. They were Remington 308 150gr SP's, their 180gr RN's worked fine.

So even a bullet that sounds like it should be perfect for the job sometimes fails, maybe you just had a bad batch.
 
Couldn't agree more with everyone, .223 with 55 gr vmax for me, hardly ever have one run. You very well may find that bigger isn't always better. I was running a 6.5 grendel with 95 gr ballistic tips last year. Seemed like 1 out of every 2 I shot would run a ways. What I came to learn was the heavier bullet was pinholing right through several of them. This year i switched back to .223 and have only had 1 coyote of 30 run which i believe was a poor shot on my part at 300 yds.
 
Originally Posted By: reb8600 Bad shots and it is a caliber problem??? Bigger caliber isn’t going to help if you can’t make good shots

Truth right there.

I have killed a couple hundred coyotes with a 223. I've lost a few, but not many. But, now I use a 17-223, haven't lost one yet out of about 40 them.
 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotthese 223 wont kill a 25 pound coyote threads are always good for some laughs.

That's where you're wrong. That coyote was at least 55 pounds!
 
Originally Posted By: R. TokerOriginally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotthese 223 wont kill a 25 pound coyote threads are always good for some laughs.

That's where you're wrong. That coyote was at least 55 pounds!

And was wearing a bandana, he was one tough mother trucker.
 
I shot a lot of coyotes with both a 16in .223 and an 18in .223 using Hornady 55gr Vmax's for a long time. When we saw runners we switched to the SP's and that worked.

But I also run a 16in .308 AR and love it using the 150gr SP's.
 
I am with most everyone else here. Seems more of a shot placement problem than caliber problem. I would dare say that there are more coyotes killed each year with the 223/556 round than any other round.

Without getting into a huge debate over this following comment, I will also point out that it is currently the round of choice of the US military and military and LE around the world. Although not the most effective combat round and yes there has been a lot of debate about its effectiveness on the battlefield, fact is it does its job decently against 200 lbs targets and that is with military crap ball ammo and not modern BT ammo. I have no doubt it will take down a 25-40 lbs coyote or other predator with even moderately accurate shot placement.

That being said, I currently use an Ar in 6.8 SPC. It's my latest AR build and love the round so far. I would definitely check shot placement before ditching the 223/556 and then if still not satisfied, look at other AR-15 calibers like the 6.8 SPC among others before switching to the heavier, more expensive AR-10 platform.
 
I also want to add this. Don't take it that folks here are saying you are a bad shot. It could possibly be just simple practice is needed. So many of us, myself included at times, go to the range and shoot MOA or even sub-MOA groups off of a nice stable rest or bi-pod and never practice off-hand or shooting sticks both standing and sitting.

I am no competition shooter but I can get between 0.5 and 1 inch groups out of all of my hunting rifles off the rest. That group gets larger when shooting off-hand or from shooting sticks and even worse depending on my sitting position. All too often we have to take a somewhat hurried shot in the field with less than optimal shooting stance and such which will result in less than accurate shots. Practice these real world shooting positions so that you are more prepared when in the field.
 
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I am old school, I like seeing them blow up.
When, they get hit with my 220 Swift.
PINK MIST was invented by the swift.
I load 45 OP @ 3.950/4,000fps.
56 years shooting and loading the swift.
On my 3rd rifle, 2 model 70's and now a ruger 77.
I load a Barnes 223 grenade bullet that is good in a 223 rem. powder metal.
My walking around rifle is a Yogo, Mini Mauser in 223, Interarms.
 
Originally Posted By: tnvarmintI also want to add this. Don't take it that folks here are saying you are a bad shot. It could possibly be just simple practice is needed. So many of us, myself included at times, go to the range and shoot MOA or even sub-MOA groups off of a nice stable rest or bi-pod and never practice off-hand or shooting sticks both standing and sitting.

I am no competition shooter but I can get between 0.5 and 1 inch groups out of all of my hunting rifles off the rest. That group gets larger when shooting off-hand or from shooting sticks and even worse depending on my sitting position. All too often we have to take a somewhat hurried shot in the field with less than optimal shooting stance and such which will result in less than accurate shots. Practice these real world shooting positions so that you are more prepared when in the field.

Excellent comment! Sometimes it is hard to accurately impart the right emotion into our comments when we use the electronic medium.

I make plenty of "less than ideal" shots. I have had situations where I placed, what I felt, was a "perfect shot" only to have a coyote turn and run. In the last video I posted, I had a dead square on chest shot that, for whatever reason, ended up blowing out the side of the coyote. Shouldn't have happened, I was squared up on the coyote, but it did. Sure, it's going to shake your confidence. But I have plenty of dead coyotes that have taken hits form that rifle and were DRT. So I am not going to abandon my tried and true rifle/ammo combo and go try to find the holy bullet grail. I am just going to try hard to make the best shot I can.

Originally Posted By: willy1947


I am old school, I like seeing them blow up.
When, they get hit with my 220 Swift.
PINK MIST was invented by the swift.
I load 45 OP @ 3.950/4,000fps.
56 years shooting and loading the swift.
On my 3rd rifle, 2 model 70's and now a ruger 77.
I load a Barnes 223 grenade bullet that is good in a 223 rem. powder metal.
My walking around rifle is a Yogo, Mini Mauser in 223, Interarms.




Me too Willy. I may not be as "old school" as some, but there is something SO satisfying about that meat slap...
 
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