should you use a coon for training???

It's YOUR dog, train em as you see fit. If you want a dog that will get after just coyotes all the time, that is gonna be difficult to trash break her off of coons and other critters because it's sounds like shes turning into an all around dog.

Coyotes are Tugs primary target, but he has chased more than a few cats and coons too. Keeps him gamey, when I'm on a coyote stand and a coon shows up, I'm sure were gonna take it just as if a badger or a bobcat shows up.

Take her out and hunt her, it's alot more fun than honey dos.

Good luck, and good hunting.

gonzaga
 
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1read the 1st post... the dog has already brought back 10 to 15 coyotes, has it sucessfully decoyed every coyote it has seen? do the math that dog has probably seen its share of coyotes already, why mess with a coon? if the dog is worth its salt it will chase a coon anyway.
coyote1758 states it will chase cats,cows and yotes you really think you would have to "work" it on a coon? i think i would work on leaving the livestock alone.

I don't know where you think that his dog won't ever have to fight a coyote as you mentioned earlier . Like it's some kind of odd scenario. It will eventually happen and I'd like a dog to have the confidence to address it.
 
The extent of my 'trash breaking' so far has been with deer & livestock. The rest is fair game, as far as I'm concerned. And after a spell, the pup has pretty much figgerd out what we'z be huntin' purdy quik...
wink.gif


Case in point, these pics are from the same day back in late February.

Morning, treeing like a champ...
040.jpg


Afternoon, bringing a nice coyote back to me...
003.jpg


Take your dog calling as much as you can! If the pup has 1/2 a brain, it'll start to realize that when daddy sits down & makes funny noises, then coyotes come to play. If the pup has already seen 10-15 coyote kilt, then I'd keep doing exactly what you are doing (CALLING coyotes
wink.gif
)

Showing the pup a coon might get him riled up, but that isn't going to help it decoy a coyote any better.

If ya show him this...
Pokeycoontracks007.jpg

and this...
IMG00735-20110322-1727.jpg

your cur will likely get good at this...
airpokey2.jpg

and this
IMG00672-20110202-1713.jpg

and this...
Pokey14months141.jpg


So if that's what you want, then show him a couple coon
laugh.gif



but if you want this:
AugPAcoyotes023.jpg

then keep doing this...
julypics048.jpg


Don't make this chit any harder than it has to be. There is no rigid boot camp guidelines to making a dog other than showing it the right game. So just keep taking your pup out & hopefully, it'll figure stuff out to your satisfaction...

Good luck & enjoy your pup!!!
 
Originally Posted By: Aaron_ProffittOriginally Posted By: emeraldterriers1read the 1st post... the dog has already brought back 10 to 15 coyotes, has it sucessfully decoyed every coyote it has seen? do the math that dog has probably seen its share of coyotes already, why mess with a coon? if the dog is worth its salt it will chase a coon anyway.
coyote1758 states it will chase cats,cows and yotes you really think you would have to "work" it on a coon? i think i would work on leaving the livestock alone.

I don't know where you think that his dog won't ever have to fight a coyote as you mentioned earlier . Like it's some kind of odd scenario. It will eventually happen and I'd like a dog to have the confidence to address it.

does he have to fight a coyote? no he doesnt
rolleyes.gif
#1 a coyote will kill a lap dog and eat it.it's gonna try to run your cur (or airedale) out of its territory. if a dog that sizes up with a coyote a coyote will back off,period. it doesnt have the luxury of a full belly of food every night, or vet care, or someone watching over its shoulder with a gun. coyotes or any wild animal for that matter gets hurt it dies. its called flight or fight
thumbup1.gif
if cornered it will fight but will opt for flight if theres any chance.
so lets say you wound a coyote, your dog does a great job trailing it to the end and bays... did he do his job? or does he have to rag on a coyote that has a 50 grain bullet that tore off his front shoulder off or the bullet that went into the guts? if that makes you stand a little taller thinking your dog just whooped a coyote, well so be it. a fellows ego is alot for a dog to carry.
 
Thanks guys, but he needs ALOT more coyotes in front of him to get to where I'd say he really knows what he's doing with 'em.
I know there are some guys that easily put more coyotes in front of their dog in two weeks than I could every hope to in a season here. But that ain't stopping us from trying & having a good time of it...
smile.gif


As for treeing coons & ditch tigers, he's kinda had that part 'built in' from a young age. Just gotta hope he don't skewer his own self at the tree with all that pogostickin'! Nice to see he wants the meat though. Coon kill season opens next week...
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1Originally Posted By: Aaron_ProffittOriginally Posted By: emeraldterriers1read the 1st post... the dog has already brought back 10 to 15 coyotes, has it sucessfully decoyed every coyote it has seen? do the math that dog has probably seen its share of coyotes already, why mess with a coon? if the dog is worth its salt it will chase a coon anyway.
coyote1758 states it will chase cats,cows and yotes you really think you would have to "work" it on a coon? i think i would work on leaving the livestock alone.

I don't know where you think that his dog won't ever have to fight a coyote as you mentioned earlier . Like it's some kind of odd scenario. It will eventually happen and I'd like a dog to have the confidence to address it.

if that makes you stand a little taller thinking your dog just whooped a coyote, well so be it. a fellows ego is alot for a dog to carry.

We're looking at different sides of the same coin. When I take mine out, we head out figuring that they probably won't have to scrap with a healthy coyote . And for the most part that's true. Probably 98 % of the time. Knockem' hasn't said that he's an ADC guy and will be doing denning work, trapping using drags, or batting clean up for aerial guys who have to use non-toxic shot ( BRILLIANT PLAN BY THE WAY, USDA !!!) But he did say he'd like his dog to know that it's teeth are good for more than just eating. I figure the place to start with that might not be using a healthy, foot-loose coyote. I have had one dog over the years that could take on a coyote one to one and that was a stag named "Tut". Tut was pretty exceptional. But I think any dog that goes into the field in pursuit of coyotes might wanna have some fire in it's belly as I guarantee a situation will arise that has Knockem' and dog in a situation where it's handy.
 
i'm lost....
who is denning with a cur?
who says knockem's dogknows what its teeth are used for?
whose cur or airedale can catch a healthy foot loose coyote?
(by the way i'll take a pup if you find one)but wont hold my breath
and if a "hunting" dog doesnt have the natural "fire in the belly" instilled from the beginning don't waste your time...
you cant teach instincts.
 
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
who says knockem's dogknows what its teeth are used for?

My mistake. It was 1758 who said that, not Knockem'. Muhbad

and if a "hunting" dog doesnt have the natural "fire in the belly" instilled from the beginning don't waste your time...
you cant teach instincts.

I agree.
 
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1i'm lost....
who is denning with a cur?
who says knockem's dogknows what its teeth are used for?
whose cur or airedale can catch a healthy foot loose coyote?
(by the way i'll take a pup if you find one)but wont hold my breath
and if a "hunting" dog doesnt have the natural "fire in the belly" instilled from the beginning don't waste your time...
you cant teach instincts.



One other thing, if you haven't noticed...coyotes are becoming more and more dog apathetic and even aggressive towards them. I know many guys who are now using Airedales ,BMC's,Catahoulas and other hard breeds in with their bird dogs and coon hounds to keep the coyotes off of 'em. Two guys from work watched as their bird dogs were killed ( one a Britt and the other a beautiful English setter) on seperate occassions.
 
Originally Posted By: coyote1758Again guys thanks for the help.Not saying she is all that.She has not had a yote want to bit her yet and I was trying to get her to realize her teeth are her her defend herself and not just for eating dog food.Maybe I am more concerned than her.I read my first post and it read let she was a really good dog,she is 10mos old pup learning,so let me humble and tell you that me and sam are learning togather.I am no dog trainer and just trying to learn from the guys on here.Thanks again,chuck


My mistake . I was getting 1758 and Knokemdown confused . Here's the originater of the thread's post.
 
Originally Posted By: Aaron_ProffittOriginally Posted By: emeraldterriers1i'm lost....
who is denning with a cur?
who says knockem's dogknows what its teeth are used for?
whose cur or airedale can catch a healthy foot loose coyote?
(by the way i'll take a pup if you find one)but wont hold my breath
and if a "hunting" dog doesnt have the natural "fire in the belly" instilled from the beginning don't waste your time...
you cant teach instincts.



One other thing, if you haven't noticed...coyotes are becoming more and more dog apathetic and even aggressive towards them. I know many guys who are now using Airedales ,BMC's,Catahoulas and other hard breeds in with their bird dogs and coon hounds to keep the coyotes off of 'em. Two guys from work watched as their bird dogs were killed ( one a Britt and the other a beautiful English setter) on seperate occassions.

where is this place where coyotes are becoming apathetic towards dogs? the suburbs of california?where no hunting is allowed? not here in the good old midwest...coyotes run from brittany's here see it every yr bird hunting.and for coon hounds really? wolves destroy hounds but never heard of a coyote or coyotes for that matter gettin hounds. i'm sure you have heard of fox hounds, julys, ect... they chase coyotes for a living,i'm not sure why they would breed a cross into them unless they were lacking something??? hounds have been around a long time, no sence in reventing the wheel.
how are these crosses working out for them? are they gaining the grit needed to protect them? how about loosing the control,staunch pointing, retrieving instincts?
were these guys from work hunting with there bird dogs? i assume in oklahoma?
 
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1Originally Posted By: Aaron_ProffittOriginally Posted By: emeraldterriers1i'm lost....
who is denning with a cur?
who says knockem's dogknows what its teeth are used for?
whose cur or airedale can catch a healthy foot loose coyote?
(by the way i'll take a pup if you find one)but wont hold my breath
and if a "hunting" dog doesnt have the natural "fire in the belly" instilled from the beginning don't waste your time...
you cant teach instincts.



One other thing, if you haven't noticed...coyotes are becoming more and more dog apathetic and even aggressive towards them. I know many guys who are now using Airedales ,BMC's,Catahoulas and other hard breeds in with their bird dogs and coon hounds to keep the coyotes off of 'em. Two guys from work watched as their bird dogs were killed ( one a Britt and the other a beautiful English setter) on seperate occassions.

where is this place where coyotes are becoming apathetic towards dogs? the suburbs of california?where no hunting is allowed? not here in the good old midwest...coyotes run from brittany's here see it every yr bird hunting. OK... and for coon hounds really? wolves destroy hounds but never heard of a coyote or coyotes for that matter gettin hounds. i'm sure you have heard of fox hounds, julys, ect... they chase coyotes for a living,i'm not sure why they would breed a cross into them unless they were lacking something??? hounds have been around a long time, no sence in reventing the wheel.
how are these crosses working out for them? are they gaining the grit needed to protect them? how about loosing the control,staunch pointing, retrieving instincts? I have no idea what you're talking about...what crosses did I mention ? I'm talking about traditional coonhounds.
were these guys from work hunting with there bird dogs? i assume in oklahoma? Right here in Oklahoma
 
WoW, this thread is bouncing all over the place, lol. I will put almost any dog on a coon once, just to see what they have. Like said before, if the dog has the drive, a coon will sure show you it does, a coon will turn and fight. A dog that has never had to fight will keep on not fighting. If you start putting it on coons, and making it fight, then that will be his go to move, use his teeth.

But that being said, a cornered gut shot coyote will cause the same affect, if your dog is working for you the way you want, i say leave it be. Dont fix what isnt broken. Some day if the dog is cornered into a fight with a coyote, you will find out what he has. Ether he will fight, or he wont, but no ammunt of coons will change that.

Like said before, coyotes are smart, they know if they get injured, they die, and will avoid a fight at all cost. If it was a coyotes perogative to turn and fight, we wouldnt need hounds that were so fast, we would just take pit bulls out, and when the coyotes attacked them, they would die.

I have fox hounds that will kill coyotes by them selfs. But i like most guys have had a dog get in a bad situation with coyotes, and they needed help, im not saying they would have been killed, but they wouldnt have been so healthy when they walked away, but i surely didnt stand by and watch my dogs get killed infront of my eyes!
 
An account from another site....


Took Earl out coon hunting last saturday, we made it about three quarters of the way around the vineyard when coyotes sounded off. On the garmin it showed Earl making a bee line in the direction of the coyotes. When he got about 380 yards out the coyotes lit up again with quite a rucus. Well when Earl got there he must have realized he was out numbered and turned tail. He came by us like a streak with the coyoyes in hot pursuit yipping and howling all the way to the truck, and when they saw us they started barking at us and howling. They were only about 45 yards away and we could see them through the brush it was a pretty eary feeling.
 
Aaron, im not disputing the fact that a spring time coyote guarding a den full of pups wont run a dog out of the woods. We have it happen from time to time with us, but the point is, Had that dog turned to fight that pack of coyotes, what do you think would have happened?

The dog acted true to his instincts of self preservation. RUN! A coyote will do the same thing if a dog is trying to kill it. I dont care how much grit you breed into any dog, if he tries to fight three coyotes at once, he isnt going to be feeling too spry when its all said and done!
 
quote: i know many guys who are now using airedales,bmc,catahoulas and other hard breeds in with there bird dogs and coonhounds to keep the coyotes off of them... traditional coon hounds walkers,blue ticks,english, blk/tans, ect...or are they running these breeds with the coon hounds and bird dogs? if that is the case how do the bird hunters keep a airedale or catahoula from busting birds or making a brittany break a point?
and the hounds are the "hard dogs" turned loose after the coyotes attack? i would think a airedale might turn a straight cooner into a trash hound running with one.

i also assume they were not hunting when there bird dogs were attacked and killed? only speaking for myself, i would of waded in and stomped a coyote... but i would of bet money the yote would of turned tail and ran.... back to the fight or flight.... the latter 98% of the time.lol
 
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