Gunner/Mattie pups training (Pics and Video)

You are missing the whole point. The Public and non hunters will see this. The Anti's veiw these forums like crows searching for something dead. They will take this stuff to the public, you can bet your farm on it. They look for this stuff to help their cause, and Tony without knowing it just gave them a big boost. That is why it is so important for us to talk about it so we can educate everyone. And not give them the ammo they need.
Do you want to help them or would you like to Cripple them? Give them graffic photos or video and you have helped them.
Take a photo like you have done with your trophy but you dont need to have dogs hanging off it, have the dogs in the photo with you, show them baying it up maybe a nip here and there but when it gets graffic then stop the photo.
Answer this question...should Tony should have shown the part in the video of him killing the coyote with a stick? Or was he right in turning the camera off and then showing the coyote dead?
 
After all the grief and such, Devin posted a very well laid out explanation and discussion. Well done sir. I have now removed the video clip from public eye on youtube. I originally loaded the video to only show the owners of the 2 young dogs in the video, but had decided to post it after Devin's discussion on not enough grit in the dogs on my prior video. Due to his professional delivery of his last post, Devin's points are well taken.

Thanks...Tony
 
I may be way off base here, but what's new. We have been saturated with political correctness to the point of doing what's right feels bad, even though we are in the right. This has been done slowly over the years by those that oppose our sport. We have prominent members of our hunting forum changing their avatars and pulling postings as well as lashing out at each other over dead coyotes. The common goal we all seek in one way or another. What's to say that we cannot reverse the political correctness with slow, gradual saturation of our own. How many animals do you see on the roads with the guts mashed out of them? No PETA protests there. Do it with a rifle or trap or dog to a degree of less suffering and bam, protest. As humans we are use to seeing death and can handle it, our society has deemed when it is necessary and when it is not according to popular demand. A picture here, video there, hunter charity event and we're back where things came from and where they belong. We are the original conservationist and do more charity to humans and animals than any other group. Admittedly, divided we will fail, and the task at hand is no small one. We gave up a necessary way of life for grocery stores and political correctness and ease of life as a society. There are no natural vegetarian humans, we all came from hunter gatherers, we're naturally omnivores. We do both, not one or the other. Coyotes were clothes and barter goods, now they are sport animals for the most part.

I think with good information comes education. I have asked in the past, how do you make a dog do what it does and be so obedient. I have seen this first hand and in video. I now have a new respect for dog handlers I didn't have before hunting with one. Maybe I'm getting soft as I get older, but I seem to be trying a lot of shoes on these days before walking a mile in any and worrying less about what anybody else thinks about my tastes. We all have moral obligations and luckily they are different levels for all of us. This is the best collective group of hunters I've ever seen, and sometimes the most dramatic. The drama comes from the passions we all have for our sport in our own ways which vary from time to time. Unfortunatly we are use to defending it tooth and nail, even if it is against our own bretheren. I have had good dealings with many parties involved in this thread and many of these parties have been charitable toward me and kind. What has been displayed here is unfortunate and all that participated including myself have lost a little something. Hopefully these things will settle as well as the many other threads posted on this site lately and things will get back to normal once everyone is too busy stacking fur to post much more than pictures and good conversation about what is one of the greatest sports many of us have ever enjoyed.

Just my relections looking back. Good night all and good hunting however you do it.
 
Again Tony, I was disappointed with the cross I made. It had nothing to do with you. I guess I should have shut my mouth. I think you are well on your way to making some outstanding dogs but you don't have to prove it to anyone on here. If someone wants to see a video of the grit send it to them on a pm or better yet make them wait till you put out a video. lol I hope you keep posting on here, I for one enjoy seeing and reading your stories.
 
Great Post ARCORNEY. But I disagree with this part:

Originally Posted By: ARCOREYWhat has been displayed here is unfortunate and all that participated including myself have lost a little something.

When I first joined PredatorMasters I was pretty thin skinned and was often offended by the vigorous banter that would occur. I still cringe a little at the personal attacks that sometimes occur but have come to understand that much good can come from the spirited debate that happens here. Any serious educator knows that nothing promotes serious thought like debate. And reading and writing are the birth and life of thinking and learning.

I don't think this thread has been unfortunate or a loss for anyone. In fact I feel I have gained a great deal here tonight.

I hope all members will continue to put it up here, make and defend you point with an open mind.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOREYI may be way off base here, but what's new. We have been saturated with political correctness to the point of doing what's right feels bad, even though we are in the right. This has been done slowly over the years by those that oppose our sport. We have prominent members of our hunting forum changing their avatars and pulling postings as well as lashing out at each other over dead coyotes. The common goal we all seek in one way or another. What's to say that we cannot reverse the political correctness with slow, gradual saturation of our own. How many animals do you see on the roads with the guts mashed out of them? No PETA protests there. Do it with a rifle or trap or dog to a degree of less suffering and bam, protest. As humans we are use to seeing death and can handle it, our society has deemed when it is necessary and when it is not according to popular demand. A picture here, video there, hunter charity event and we're back where things came from and where they belong. We are the original conservationist and do more charity to humans and animals than any other group. Admittedly, divided we will fail, and the task at hand is no small one. We gave up a necessary way of life for grocery stores and political correctness and ease of life as a society. There are no natural vegetarian humans, we all came from hunter gatherers, we're naturally omnivores. We do both, not one or the other. Coyotes were clothes and barter goods, now they are sport animals for the most part.

I think with good information comes education. I have asked in the past, how do you make a dog do what it does and be so obedient. I have seen this first hand and in video. I now have a new respect for dog handlers I didn't have before hunting with one. Maybe I'm getting soft as I get older, but I seem to be trying a lot of shoes on these days before walking a mile in any and worrying less about what anybody else thinks about my tastes. We all have moral obligations and luckily they are different levels for all of us. This is the best collective group of hunters I've ever seen, and sometimes the most dramatic. The drama comes from the passions we all have for our sport in our own ways which vary from time to time. Unfortunatly we are use to defending it tooth and nail, even if it is against our own bretheren. I have had good dealings with many parties involved in this thread and many of these parties have been charitable toward me and kind. What has been displayed here is unfortunate and all that participated including myself have lost a little something. Hopefully these things will settle as well as the many other threads posted on this site lately and things will get back to normal once everyone is too busy stacking fur to post much more than pictures and good conversation about what is one of the greatest sports many of us have ever enjoyed.

Just my relections looking back. Good night all and good hunting however you do it. In a fairy tale world this would be great but what most do not understand is peta,the human socity, wild earth gaurdians are putting up millions and millions of dollars every year to fight us and look at us here on this board ...We can't even agree on something simple.
 

Answer this question...should Tony should have shown the part in the video of him killing the coyote with a stick? Or was he right in turning the camera off and then showing the coyote dead? [/quote]

tony is promoting/selling dogs,its part of his lively hood.tony stated "these dogs are spoken for" but the other 3 litters on the ground ain't.
wink.gif
or any future pups from the tebbe compound. as far as i'm concerned tony hasn't showed a vid that his dogs have dispatched...one dog or three, nothing but leg held coyotes or coyotes that have taken a bullet.(which JMHO) there doing there job.i have never owned a cur (had coon hounds) but in my book his dogs are not gritty either, but they bay and hold marinal hit coyotes.thats there job plain and simple, the vids i have seen strenght comes in numbers. did anyone notice besides me that coyote was getting face barked until human intervention (went in grabbed the chain)tony(alpha pack leader) showed the young pups its ok... i would of bet they wouldn't of got any closer if tony didn't shake things up a bit.
tony lives in a coyote mecca, he has the opportunity to show alot of coyotes to his dogs or clients dogs which is a HUGE plus.his reputation will speak louder than any vid... with time.

getting back to devins question, shut the camera down when the fur starts to fly or even to much harassing by a baying dog.(internet purposes only)
 
Originally Posted By: Devin69
ARCOREY said:
In a fairy tale world this would be great but what most do not understand is peta,the human socity, wild earth gaurdians are putting up millions and millions of dollars every year to fight us and look at us here on this board ...We can't even agree on something simple.
We pay 10 times that in license revenues and sporting goods fees annually. Shut it off for six months and fifi the poodle and fluffy the cat cease to exist nationwide. Car crash fatalities due to wildlife climb and animal populations soar. Basically we'd be armpit deep in fur. Coyotes already run the streets of NY and California, the two most liberal states around, both of which have predator hunting now. What would it be like without our portion of the management? Government can't afford to address it, we can't keep intruding humans out of our towns. Proper education, which existed as recently as 20 years ago, addressed the misinformation. We're just not focused, that is the problem. This fairy tale has existed in my short lifetime, we let it get away from us as a group.

The unfortunate part I mention is not that this whole debate aired, and not that it aired infront of anti hunters, but that words among people enjoying similar likes have gotten to the point that permanent damage may be remembered by several parties. I hope that I'm wrong in this assessment as that would be unfortunate as many of those posting have made and still have great contributions to make to our sport.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOREYOriginally Posted By: Devin69
ARCOREY said:
In a fairy tale world this would be great but what most do not understand is peta,the human socity, wild earth gaurdians are putting up millions and millions of dollars every year to fight us and look at us here on this board ...We can't even agree on something simple.
We pay 10 times that in license revenues and sporting goods fees annually. Shut it off for six months and fifi the poodle and fluffy the cat cease to exist nationwide. Car crash fatalities due to wildlife climb and animal populations soar. Basically we'd be armpit deep in fur. Coyotes already run the streets of NY and California, the two most liberal states around, both of which have predator hunting now. What would it be like without our portion of the management? Government can't afford to address it, we can't keep intruding humans out of our towns. Proper education, which existed as recently as 20 years ago, addressed the misinformation. We're just not focused, that is the problem. This fairy tale has existed in my short lifetime, we let it get away from us as a group.

The unfortunate part I mention is not that this whole debate aired, and not that it aired infront of anti hunters, but that words among people enjoying similar likes have gotten to the point that permanent damage may be remembered by several parties. I hope that I'm wrong in this assessment as that would be unfortunate as many of those posting have made and still have great contributions to make to our sport.

X2 Hunting aint going nowhere in my lifetime. Money talks, and the hunters bring the money. Tell states like Kansas and many more that depend on it your going to shut hunting down and see what happens. Screw PETA and the horse they rode in on.
 
Come on guys really? I mean REALLY? You think everyone is going to stop hunting for even one season? Or stop buying tags? Come on...thats what I mean....a FAIRY TALE. lol
Come back down to earth and discuss this in reality.
They have said the same thing about gas....lets just stop buying it for a few days, we will show them...lol Now this tread is just getting silly.
 
My response was PETA is not ever going to stop hunting. If they think they can throw out a couple million and stop us they are the one living a fairy tail. Hunting is not going away. Period.
 
The antis quit hunting and pooled their resources, looks like it works to me
smirk.gif
. Got to sign off, got to work tomorrow and all those on welfare still depend on me.
 
i dont recall how many hunters there are in the usa...

i dont recall how many hsus, peta, ethical treatment of animals, ect...

but i do remember how many that ride the fence... around 80% of the population.
you take betty crocker house wife and average joe,show them a vid of 3 dogs harassing a coyote in a leghold... they sterotype hunters. they have never hunted before don't ever intend to but that is the picture in there head. thats not me, devin or tony.
 
I must apologise for my "tethered remarks" I never realised that this was effective training for dogs. I only know that after having raised 2 labs "that never mauled birds" I would never train mine that way. Different strokes I guess.. Carry on.
 
Originally Posted By: getfoxyI never said it wasnt LEGAL, I just dont agree with it. I have dogs, I have had Walker Hounds, Black and Tans, had a Plott. right now I have a mountain Cur, I was raised with the mindset of killing the animal clean and quickly There was no reason whatsoever that coyote needed to go through all of that....IDC about keeping it out of the spotlight or not...that was rediculous
Tony can take it personal if he wishes, fine by be, Its called an opinion.

And the discalimer thing? I cant post a disclaimer of a picture filled with blood and guts so why is it ok to post a disclaimer of this? Disclaimer means nothing.

You go!
 
Come on, we kill vermin here. Now your gonna piss and moan about how the details, grow up. Who hasn't shot a bird with a BB gun and couldn't recover it as a kid? Crybaby's
 
There is alot of discussion going on in this thread, that has gone on in "private" among many of us.
I'm the first to say, I have posted some video, that in "hindsite" I shouldn't have. [beeep] I even have a "trapline" segment in my video. I have taken heat for it from members here, and taken heat from people in the sporting industry.
"With experience comes insite" (author unknown)
We each have choices to make in how we do things, whether your job is to train dogs, train horses, or build pianos.
Whether it's me, or Devin, or Tony, or any one else, we all make choices on what to post, and what not to,and make these choices for whatever reasons.Thats all fine, the flip side is there are consequences,not only for the guy making the post, but for other people.
Lots of good opinions, and lots to think about in this thread.
 
Quote:Again Tony, I was disappointed with the cross I made. It had nothing to do with you. I guess I should have shut my mouth. I think you are well on your way to making some outstanding dogs but you don't have to prove it to anyone on here. If someone wants to see a video of the grit send it to them on a pm or better yet make them wait till you put out a video. lol I hope you keep posting on here, I for one enjoy seeing and reading your stories.
Like I said, it's all good Devin. I have no ill feelings sir.

Now, on the other hand, the following comment gets under my skin. I guess it's more of the history of comments. I don't know what I've ever done to you ET, but dang man...get off my azz. They're just a bunch of young pups in training. This is only the 2nd coyote they've had access to put a tooth on. Everything prior has been on fat and happy penned coyotes. Both times, they've done extremely well in my book, for 6 month old pups. And the "Tebbe Compound" statement...come on man. Why do you give a rats butt what I produce, train, and/or sell? This thread finally got on track to a good debate and you had to go and stick enough hot pokers in my ribs to really rub me the wrong way. I really don't understand your motive sir.

Quote:tony is promoting/selling dogs,its part of his lively hood.tony stated "these dogs are spoken for" but the other 3 litters on the ground ain't. wink or any future pups from the tebbe compound. as far as i'm concerned tony hasn't showed a vid that his dogs have dispatched...one dog or three, nothing but leg held coyotes or coyotes that have taken a bullet.(which JMHO) there doing there job.i have never owned a cur (had coon hounds) but in my book his dogs are not gritty either, but they bay and hold marinal hit coyotes.thats there job plain and simple, the vids i have seen strenght comes in numbers. did anyone notice besides me that coyote was getting face barked until human intervention (went in grabbed the chain)tony(alpha pack leader) showed the young pups its ok... i would of bet they wouldn't of got any closer if tony didn't shake things up a bit.

Good night all.

Tony
 
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