Coyote catch by greyhounds - Video Clip
- Thread starter TonyTebbe
- Start date
mikegranger
Active member
KH,
Go ahead and ask your questions, these guys are real good about explaing what they do and why.
Quote:
Running an animal down with a truck is not hunting
Hunting with hounds usually involves getting them close enough (sight dogs) to see the coyote. Once the hounds are dumped the chase is on. Some are short, others go for miles. The truck is a mode of transportation. No different than you driving along a county road, seeing a coyote and jump out, shooting it. Is that considered hunting?
Go ahead and ask your questions, these guys are real good about explaing what they do and why.
Quote:
Running an animal down with a truck is not hunting
Hunting with hounds usually involves getting them close enough (sight dogs) to see the coyote. Once the hounds are dumped the chase is on. Some are short, others go for miles. The truck is a mode of transportation. No different than you driving along a county road, seeing a coyote and jump out, shooting it. Is that considered hunting?
KillerHiller
New member
There a lot of difference when you use the truck to run down the animal. Driving in a legal mannner on the road is different than blazing a trail across the field on the heels of the coyote. The problem is, I guess, here it would be illegal and there it is not. I think you and I may have a different perception of hunting and killing. We have a ton of laws in MN, most are good laws.
"Weasels, coyotes, gophers, porcupines, striped skunks, and all other mammals for which there are no closed seasons or other protection are unprotected animals. They may be taken in any manner, except with the aid of artificial lights or by using a motor vehicle to drive, chase, run over, or kill the animal."
That sounds like a good ethical law.
As far as questions go here is a few.
1. What happens if a farm dog is encountered during the chase? I have seen a few farm dogs that are coyote sized and shaped. Specifically, the farm I hunt a lot who has had some guys run their hounds through their farmsite without permission.
2. What if the hounds take after deer? I ask only because where I grew up and hunt deer, that is the only places you find the coyotes generally. Dogs chasing deer after the first of Jan. are generally shot in that area. Any one can legally do it as the law states here.
I am not pickin' a fight. I really want to know. Help me understand better.
BTW, I love the sound of treed up coon dogs. How can you not. If I didn't live in town I would have a pair.
KH
"Weasels, coyotes, gophers, porcupines, striped skunks, and all other mammals for which there are no closed seasons or other protection are unprotected animals. They may be taken in any manner, except with the aid of artificial lights or by using a motor vehicle to drive, chase, run over, or kill the animal."
That sounds like a good ethical law.
As far as questions go here is a few.
1. What happens if a farm dog is encountered during the chase? I have seen a few farm dogs that are coyote sized and shaped. Specifically, the farm I hunt a lot who has had some guys run their hounds through their farmsite without permission.
2. What if the hounds take after deer? I ask only because where I grew up and hunt deer, that is the only places you find the coyotes generally. Dogs chasing deer after the first of Jan. are generally shot in that area. Any one can legally do it as the law states here.
I am not pickin' a fight. I really want to know. Help me understand better.
BTW, I love the sound of treed up coon dogs. How can you not. If I didn't live in town I would have a pair.
KH
Duane@ssu
New member
KH, Where in the rule book does it say specificly what is pursueing? The fact that they got close in the rig isn't any big deal ,(in my opinion.)Thats the great thing about this site.We can all have an opininion.But try to keep things civil.I'm not going to start a fight because we disagree,I'll be the first one to stand up for you to hunt any way you see fit,but I will not stand by a let someone get put down because of their prefered hunting method.If you don't want to use Greyhounds,don't.If you want to walk your dogs everywhere you hunt ,thats fine with me.I have hunted all kinds of game,all kinds of ways with dogs.Its what I like.If you want to shoot whitetails from a treestand with a gun thats your deal,I think that is "lazy and unsporting",but I won't give you a hard time about it,have fun and do what you enjoy.Look back at some of the post that the honest and hard working hound men have put on this board,it is a weath of information.
Duane@ssu
New member
KH ,I've tried to be understanding,but assuming that a hound man doesn't know the difference between a farm dog and a yote is just NUTS.As for hounds chasing deer,we all train our dogs not to ,but it does happen on occassion.If your not smart enough to know the difference between a hunting hound,and a no good deer chaser you have no bussiness being in the woods with a gun.Next issue; Hounds on private ground,good dogs will run a track,they don't know one peice of ground from another.They don't understand a no hunting sign.Get real! You claim that you ran coon hounds? If you try to tell me your dogs never got onto a peice of ground they didn't belong,I'd call BS!!In most states if your dog is on game ,you are within the law to retreive your dogs,no matter if its posted or not.I think you are trying to pick a fight here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
canislatrans54
New member
Tony...I too say "Thanks for the memories!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
(BTW, this video was taken in Oklahoma.)
doggin coyotes...Hard to really tell land speed from the vid, but I tend to agree that the coyote was looking mighty tired as the it entered the film shot...long before the dogs were released.
Judging from the radio chatter, that coyote and at least one other were started in a different section.
KillerHiller...Ok, so it's not your view of "sporting". I can live with that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I personally know of several greyhound hunters who feel the same way about us who use calls to hunt coyotes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
Here in Kansas, hunting from trucks with greyhounds has been the main way of hunting coyotes since WW2. Trust me, I am a 3rd generation coyote hunter( /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif) who started hunting them in the early '70s.
It wasn't until '95 that I started using calls instead. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
So, I guess I can see it from both sides. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
You ask if it's about the "extermination of the species". The short answer is no. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
There is no way to "exterminate" the coyote, hence the spread of it being "just a plains dweller" to now being found throughout the North American continent. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
And "disrespectful"? Oh, really. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif How is this type of hunting any more disrepectful than tricking them into thinking they're coming for an easy meal, just to see that "Oh Shite!" look in their eyes before you use a bullet or arrow to end their life. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
The truck isn't killing them the dogs are. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif And I would like to point out something...Once the dogs are on the ground, the coyotes has a 50/50 chance of surviving. Many times the dogs lose sight of the coyote & run the wrong way, or the coyote runs thru fences/rocks/brush that the dogs have trouble getting thru...and the coyote gets away! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
As to "What happens if it's a farm dog? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif...Any hunter who can't tell the difference before that rope is pulled needs to stay home. And while I have seen a few races where the coyote got chased thru someone's yard, I've not seen a dog switch from chasing the coyote to chasing the farm dog. Most guys wouldn't release the dogs that close to a house anyway. But it's out of respect for the homeowner, not the coyote. (and yes, I have the utmost respect for coyotes, so don't misunderstand me)
As to "running deer"...In spending most of 40 years watching these dogs run, I have rarely seen this happen. It does happen, but not often, since deer vacate the area long before dogs get there.
(BTW, this video was taken in Oklahoma.)
doggin coyotes...Hard to really tell land speed from the vid, but I tend to agree that the coyote was looking mighty tired as the it entered the film shot...long before the dogs were released.
Judging from the radio chatter, that coyote and at least one other were started in a different section.
KillerHiller...Ok, so it's not your view of "sporting". I can live with that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I personally know of several greyhound hunters who feel the same way about us who use calls to hunt coyotes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
Here in Kansas, hunting from trucks with greyhounds has been the main way of hunting coyotes since WW2. Trust me, I am a 3rd generation coyote hunter( /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif) who started hunting them in the early '70s.
It wasn't until '95 that I started using calls instead. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
So, I guess I can see it from both sides. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
You ask if it's about the "extermination of the species". The short answer is no. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
There is no way to "exterminate" the coyote, hence the spread of it being "just a plains dweller" to now being found throughout the North American continent. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
And "disrespectful"? Oh, really. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif How is this type of hunting any more disrepectful than tricking them into thinking they're coming for an easy meal, just to see that "Oh Shite!" look in their eyes before you use a bullet or arrow to end their life. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
The truck isn't killing them the dogs are. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif And I would like to point out something...Once the dogs are on the ground, the coyotes has a 50/50 chance of surviving. Many times the dogs lose sight of the coyote & run the wrong way, or the coyote runs thru fences/rocks/brush that the dogs have trouble getting thru...and the coyote gets away! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
As to "What happens if it's a farm dog? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif...Any hunter who can't tell the difference before that rope is pulled needs to stay home. And while I have seen a few races where the coyote got chased thru someone's yard, I've not seen a dog switch from chasing the coyote to chasing the farm dog. Most guys wouldn't release the dogs that close to a house anyway. But it's out of respect for the homeowner, not the coyote. (and yes, I have the utmost respect for coyotes, so don't misunderstand me)
As to "running deer"...In spending most of 40 years watching these dogs run, I have rarely seen this happen. It does happen, but not often, since deer vacate the area long before dogs get there.
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KillerHiller
New member
Duane, I agree to disagree.
I am intrigued by mountain lion hunting with hounds sounds like a great time. That was the only reason I looked on this particular forum.
We got within 100 yards of Iowa a couple times. That is as close to the wrong place as we ever got. We had permission for 150 to 200 square miles. 15 miles by 15 miles approx. It helps that my family has a very good reputation in the area. This area is very limited where you'll find them. We lost our best dog and others to a freak accident and kind just got out of it. Ben was an awesome coonhound.
I didn't see those questions as provocative.
I meant by the questions as to controling the dogs. I have only seen guys dump their dogs and let run down the fencelines or creek bottoms, then drive around the sections and wait. That is the parameter of the question. I don't know if they are sight hounds or not. I know I sure didn't see any coyotes.
Obviously the dogs can't read.
But, will the hounds ignore a farm dog? Is there no control once they are released? To think they, the hounds, would never come across another farm dog is BS, too. Farmsites in MN aren't ten miles apart. There are probably one or two per section on average. These are honest questions with no intent on stoking the flames. I'm just wondering.
Probably be easier to understand each other if it was a face to face conversation and a couple beers were involved.
I hope to read some good posts about Lions in the future from you guys. Good luck and be safe
KH
I am intrigued by mountain lion hunting with hounds sounds like a great time. That was the only reason I looked on this particular forum.
We got within 100 yards of Iowa a couple times. That is as close to the wrong place as we ever got. We had permission for 150 to 200 square miles. 15 miles by 15 miles approx. It helps that my family has a very good reputation in the area. This area is very limited where you'll find them. We lost our best dog and others to a freak accident and kind just got out of it. Ben was an awesome coonhound.
I didn't see those questions as provocative.
I meant by the questions as to controling the dogs. I have only seen guys dump their dogs and let run down the fencelines or creek bottoms, then drive around the sections and wait. That is the parameter of the question. I don't know if they are sight hounds or not. I know I sure didn't see any coyotes.
Obviously the dogs can't read.
But, will the hounds ignore a farm dog? Is there no control once they are released? To think they, the hounds, would never come across another farm dog is BS, too. Farmsites in MN aren't ten miles apart. There are probably one or two per section on average. These are honest questions with no intent on stoking the flames. I'm just wondering.
Probably be easier to understand each other if it was a face to face conversation and a couple beers were involved.
I hope to read some good posts about Lions in the future from you guys. Good luck and be safe
KH
greenjeans
New member
By the accents, I'm pretty sure this didn't happen in Minnesota. They didn't sound like German Finlanders, doncha know der hay. If it's legal where they are, let em do it. How do we know he's not a sheep rancher? If I had a big herd of sheep, and bigger herd of coyotes, I'd have me a set of them dogs. It'd be money well spent. The way sight dogs work, by my understanding, and I could be wrong (someone please correct me if I am...)is the dogs need to see the critter they are chasing when you turn em loose. Granted, they got pretty close to the critter, but the truck is also a mode of transportation to get close enough for the dogs to do their work. They could have maybe turned the dogs loose quicker, maybe the coyote would have gotten away, maybe, maybe, maybe. Here in Minnesota, it is illegal to chase them with a truck. It is legal to run with hounds.Put these fact in front of a jury, and say you were getting close enough to turn sight dogs loose, you are gonna have a close match. Depends on the attorneys, the judge, and most importantly on the jury. If these guys have that kind of dog, chances are they have a lot of coyotes, and they need some predator control. Job done. If I had a set of those dogs, my wife would shoot me, cuz I wouldn't be able to have a chase like that maybe every other year. That a lot of dog food to feed a dog that I won't get any use out of. We don't have that kind of coyote problem. Got a few around, but we'd never be able to sight hunt em with a dog and do any good.
Talk to your LOCAL game warden. What I see in this, is that you'll get as many answers, as the number of wardens you talk to. There are gray areas in many laws. The wardens know it. They know these gray areas, and so do the prosecuting attorneys. If the attorney doesn't know it, I'll bet the warden will let them know.
As far as mistaking a farm dog???? Ain't gonna happen. When the farm dog sees the truck he'll run to you for one. For two, most guys know what dog belongs to who in the area they hunt. I've seen farm dogs out in the fields. quote "There's a coy......@#$%^& dog." You can tell the difference if you've been in woods and fields at all and have seen either of the two.
Just my $.02
Talk to your LOCAL game warden. What I see in this, is that you'll get as many answers, as the number of wardens you talk to. There are gray areas in many laws. The wardens know it. They know these gray areas, and so do the prosecuting attorneys. If the attorney doesn't know it, I'll bet the warden will let them know.
As far as mistaking a farm dog???? Ain't gonna happen. When the farm dog sees the truck he'll run to you for one. For two, most guys know what dog belongs to who in the area they hunt. I've seen farm dogs out in the fields. quote "There's a coy......@#$%^& dog." You can tell the difference if you've been in woods and fields at all and have seen either of the two.
Just my $.02
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KillerHiller
New member
I am refering to the dogs encountering a farm dog not the houndsmen. That seems to be the communication problem here.
German-finn's??? We're all Norwegian, German, Irish or some combo of those three. I don't think I know any swede's or finn's /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
German-finn's??? We're all Norwegian, German, Irish or some combo of those three. I don't think I know any swede's or finn's /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Duane@ssu
New member
KH,I'll try to answer you the best I can.I would rather try to educate and involve,than argue.I currently run dogs that will decoy,sight chase ,or trail coyotes,and a pack of cat hounds.All dog men have to make their own choices in a split second.I is not up to you or I to second guess them.My dogs,whether coyote dogs or cat hounds,WILL NOT FIGHT ANOTHER DOG.I have tested them many times.My Catahoullas are loose with me from daylite till dark every day.They have the choice to run any thing they see.They have started to chase a farm dog that was in my feed ground,but once they get close they realize,its a dog not a yote,and quit thye chase.I have good control of my dogs,but once they take after something you have to rely on training or Tritronics,if you get my meaning.When my dogs are young,I will stomp their guts for fighting another dog.I have culled two dogs this year for being kennel fighters.So chasin a farm dog is a mute point.The dogs being used are trained to work with other dogs they would not "attack" a farm dog.I'm glad your hounds have never been "out of place",I hunt some big country,I have had dogs go 15 miles in a night.I know they crossed posted ground.But,I would rather have them do there job,than be short ranging.I cut my teeth on coon hounds about 20 years ago.They are fun to run,but coons will not run like a lion,bear,or coyote.Keep an open mind to how things are done in diff,places with diff dogs,and you could have alot of fun .By the way its not legal to run lions with dogs here.Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
Duane@ssu
New member
KH as I look back in this post,I saw a few things that you may be able to understand better ,if explained to you.Some of use make a living with livestock,myself included.Where I live coyotes are a "problem".Meaning in 06 I killed 127 on my own ground.In 07 I killed 110 on my ground,I control about 7000 acres.Right now I have 800 weanling calves here,they are worth 400 to 800 bucks each.I WILL ADMIT THAT A YOTE ALONE,TAKING A CALF ,DOESN'T HAPPEN.A few yotes and a sick calf(that would heal otherwise)I'm out a few hundred bucks.This is why where I live,it's "catch as catch can" I call,hunt with diff types of dogs,and trap.Every dead yote is a good yote.I lived in MN for years.There aren't many yotes there,they are not a problem,therefore they get treated alittle diff.Two days ago at daylite there were 7 yotes on the feild just out my front door.I shot two and sent the dogs,they caught one.So 3 dead yotes.Great start to the day.
Another thing from one of your post was,something like,the dogs where running a fence line ,I didn't see any coyote.Those dogs could have been trailing hounds and were trying to work out a coyote track.The dogs will run the track,but since yotes don't tree, the dogs will either bay them up in the brush ,or a culvert, or whatever.Or the dogs will catch and kill the yote.The other choice is to "circle up" the dogs and yote,and shoot the yote when it comes into the open.Many guys enjoy this type of coyote hunting.By now you are probably starting to see that there are many ways to hunt yotes with dogs,all diff,all appeal to diff people.My fav is decoy dogs.I like to call and have the yote follow the dog right into my lap.We all have a game,good luck at yours.
Another thing from one of your post was,something like,the dogs where running a fence line ,I didn't see any coyote.Those dogs could have been trailing hounds and were trying to work out a coyote track.The dogs will run the track,but since yotes don't tree, the dogs will either bay them up in the brush ,or a culvert, or whatever.Or the dogs will catch and kill the yote.The other choice is to "circle up" the dogs and yote,and shoot the yote when it comes into the open.Many guys enjoy this type of coyote hunting.By now you are probably starting to see that there are many ways to hunt yotes with dogs,all diff,all appeal to diff people.My fav is decoy dogs.I like to call and have the yote follow the dog right into my lap.We all have a game,good luck at yours.
KillerHiller
New member
Duane thank you for the response, you answered the questions I asked very well. You obviously are at the top of your game. I meant no offense by the questions.
KH
KH
canislatrans54
New member
Quote:
I am refering to the dogs encountering a farm dog not the houndsmen. That seems to be the communication problem here.
Ok, I thought I had given you the answer, but, here it is again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif...(& I am not offended...I hope you aren't either)...
I have NEVER seen a greyhound/greyhound mix, that was in pursuit of a coyote, break off from that coyote when/if running past a farm dog.
Doesn't mean it can't happen. I've just never seen it happen in all the years I've been around greyhound hunters.
Even if the chasing dogs lose sight of the coyote, but gain sight of the farm dog. Normally when this happens, the dogs either "mill" around or they try to return to where they were turned loose.
I am refering to the dogs encountering a farm dog not the houndsmen. That seems to be the communication problem here.
Ok, I thought I had given you the answer, but, here it is again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif...(& I am not offended...I hope you aren't either)...
I have NEVER seen a greyhound/greyhound mix, that was in pursuit of a coyote, break off from that coyote when/if running past a farm dog.
Doesn't mean it can't happen. I've just never seen it happen in all the years I've been around greyhound hunters.
Even if the chasing dogs lose sight of the coyote, but gain sight of the farm dog. Normally when this happens, the dogs either "mill" around or they try to return to where they were turned loose.
vargy49
New member
KillerHiller
I run both trail and sight hounds!! Just this weekend my stags caught a yote and was coming back to the truck!! Now these stags kill the yote in a short time frame!! I watched a big black lab come out and tryed starting a fight with one of them!! They never batted a eye and tryed like hell to get to the truck to get away from them!!
I have sent the stags on a yote that the trail hounds are running and have to pass the hounds to catch the yote!! They just go right around the hounds and roll the yote up in a ball!!
Most sight hounds are raised with other dogs of some sort!!
I have seen many yard dogs come out and start crap with my hounds and blow the race up cause the hounds just leave not wanting trouble!!
Dont get me wrong they might be a few dogs that will stang ground but not many!!
As for your coon hounds that never got off leagle land then you didnt hunt much or had alot of land to hunt!!
I dont cast one land that i dont have permission but some times they will cross land!!
I make every attemp to stop them or turn the game before it happend!!
Just to let you know!! this weekend my stags dumped 4 yotes in the same day!!!
I was told on the radio where the yote was going and got there in time for the stags to see the yote!!
One turn out was 200 yards from the road!!one other was a 1/4 off the road!! Hell yea i was in a hurry to get there with the truck!!
Am i running the yote with my truck???? Hell no!! I am getting the stags close enough so they can see the critter!!
I have pulled in a field drove over the hill to get close enough for the stags to see the yote!! is that chasing ?? NO its getting close enough for them to see it!!
Sight hounds have to see the game to run!!
Vargy
I run both trail and sight hounds!! Just this weekend my stags caught a yote and was coming back to the truck!! Now these stags kill the yote in a short time frame!! I watched a big black lab come out and tryed starting a fight with one of them!! They never batted a eye and tryed like hell to get to the truck to get away from them!!
I have sent the stags on a yote that the trail hounds are running and have to pass the hounds to catch the yote!! They just go right around the hounds and roll the yote up in a ball!!
Most sight hounds are raised with other dogs of some sort!!
I have seen many yard dogs come out and start crap with my hounds and blow the race up cause the hounds just leave not wanting trouble!!
Dont get me wrong they might be a few dogs that will stang ground but not many!!
As for your coon hounds that never got off leagle land then you didnt hunt much or had alot of land to hunt!!
I dont cast one land that i dont have permission but some times they will cross land!!
I make every attemp to stop them or turn the game before it happend!!
Just to let you know!! this weekend my stags dumped 4 yotes in the same day!!!
I was told on the radio where the yote was going and got there in time for the stags to see the yote!!
One turn out was 200 yards from the road!!one other was a 1/4 off the road!! Hell yea i was in a hurry to get there with the truck!!
Am i running the yote with my truck???? Hell no!! I am getting the stags close enough so they can see the critter!!
I have pulled in a field drove over the hill to get close enough for the stags to see the yote!! is that chasing ?? NO its getting close enough for them to see it!!
Sight hounds have to see the game to run!!
Vargy