Need help deciding which pistol

Slotmann,
What blinddog said is true about the Glock 21, get any of the guns you want to shoot and compare them side by side with about 100 rounds of quality ball ammo per gun (230 grain) and check which guns shoot best for distance shooting (25 yards, if indoor range if possible) and for close-in rapid fire. Shoot enough so that you will feel the gun in your hand and sense the "timing" of the pistol when shooting fast (.20-.25 splits between shots). You will want to fire 5-6 shots at a time to see what is going on (use an electronic shot timer if you can find one). Be sure you are hitting your aiming point when rapid firing so you can see how the sights lift and settle down.

Do the same evaluation for each of the pistols and keep records of your performance and make your choice based on the evidence.

If you would like, I will give you an evaluation format to test the pistols; just PM me and I will send it.

I have a .45acp G21 and a 10mm G20 and like them both. They are just different tools for different jobs.

Best of luck,
 
Cant go wrong with any of those three pistols. All are top notch, reliable combat pistols. I carry the Glock 35 as a primary duty weapon and have had one malfunction with well over 10,000 rounds through it. If you can even call it a malfunction. The spring on the slide stop (its not a slide release) broke which caused the slide to lock to the rear. To get through that mag I had to manually cycle the slide after each shot. Five minutes and the gun was up and running again. That gun has been through numerous high speed SWAT schools, advanced firearms and Firearms Instructor schools as well as several competitions. Its been run hard and put away wet and I cant say enough about Glock reliability. I also am a Glock Armorer and aside from routine maintanence, I dont get much work. Occasionally a Glock will fracture the extractor which is also very easy to replace.

For a backup/off duty carry, I carry the S&W M&P .40 Compact. This too is an excellant, comfortable and very reliable gun. The full size .45 M&P does not have the magazine disconnect and should say right on the gun "will fire without a magazine". The ones that do, if its an issue for you, can be disengaged by a Smith & Wesson Armorer.

I have also got to shoot the Springfield XD and there are a few Officers in my agency carrying them. Very reliable, shoot good and points very naturally. The best advise you have been given so far is pick the one that feels the best in your hand and points well for you. That is the one you will shoot the best. If the Glock 21 is a little big in the grip for you, find a new Glock 21 SF (slim frame). It still has the double stack 13 round capacity but was made with a slimmer grip for a smaller hand.

All three are priced very similiar. I work part time (moonlight) at Sportsmans Warehouse on the gun counter. I cant remember exact prices on all three in the .45 ACP but the Glock 22 is $499.00, the M&P .40 is $499.00 and the Springfield XD 4" is $489.99. All of those are without night sights. The .45's are all mid $500 range and all within $10 to $20 bucks of each other. The XD's do come with the Kydex holster, magazine holder and speed loader. All come with two magazines. The Glock has the cheapest extra mags of all three ($19.99 ea.).

Hope this helps you make an informed decision of which will be best for you. Like I said, you cant go wrong with any of the three.
 
Here is a little history of my experience with the Glock 21.

I bought one of the very first ones when they came out with the 45 Glock. I was shooting IPSC through the 90s and used it as a limited class gun. IPSC is a very high round count sport

It was a super reliable gun and I put an average of 20K rounds per year through it. 90% of those were LEAD reloads.

.45s are a very low pressure round and while the factory does not want you shooting lead or any other reload through the guns, you will be fine if you know what you are doing.

My first gun had about 50K through it when I was teaching a class at a local indoor shooting range. A rep from Glock just happened to be there that day and he asked to sit in on the class. Afterwards he asked to see my G21. I showed it to him and he said he would like to send it back to the factory for an inspection because he had never seen one that had been shot as extensively as mine(they had not been on the market long).

I informed him that I had been shooting mostly lead handloads though it and he said that was fine for a 45.

Furthermore he loaned me a new G21 and the brand new G30 that had just come out. I used both as duty guns while the Glock engineers fiddled with mine. Eventually they sent my G21 back and I returned theirs to them. The Glock Rep actually told me to keep the G30 as a thank you from Glock.

Long story short(er), I continued to use that particular G21 for a few more years and replaced it with a 3rd generation one with frame rails for a white light. I was well over the 60K mark when I gave the old one to my dad. It continues to serve him to this day.

My next G21 has fired an easy 60K and has no issues whatsoever. It was my duty/IPSC gun for quite some time.

Then I was recruited into a state law enforcement job where we switched to the G21 after a couple of years. My issued one took case after case after case of 230 grain Blaser ball ammo and probably only 4 ot 5 K of JHP ammo. I was an agency firearms instructor and I hammered rounds through that gun every chance I could, which was quite often.

In 2004 I went to a high intensity mil/law shooting school to evaluate it for the owner and shot a shade over 5,000 rounds in 3.5 days. I NEVER cleaned my gun except to wipe off the front tritium sight post so I could see it during the kill house training. In over 5K rounds my issued G21 never once hiccupped. It was flawless.

In short I have well in excess of 150K rounds through a G21 and can say for certain that I have never ever experienced a 45 acp that is as dead nuts reliable and trouble free as a Glock 21.

Today, I carry an issued G19 here in Iraq simply because that is what I am issued. It is another dead nuts reliable gun. I just wish it was a .45.

You would do well to take a hard look at Glock. Funny part is, I really like 1911s. But Glocks have been shown in my experience to be the most reliable handguns ever built.
 
Hi Slottmann,

Not knowing your exact use for the 45 acp you want to get makes it a bit harder to give a good recommendation. I have tried all those you suggested and they all have their good points and limitations depending on use. The Glock would be on the bottom of my list, but that's just my opinion. Checking out various pistols at a range is great idea to get a handle on what you like.

HogSniper and I would agree that the Sigs are tops. I have had Sig P220s that will shoot sub 1.5 inch groups at 25 yards. The new models have dozens of variations from compact, Carries, Match, to full size military models. The P220 Carry is my favorite, but the P250 can be configured to any shooter or mission with a full range calibers, grips, frames, and other parts.
 
The Glock has unsuported chambers in 40 & 45 calibers. It would pay to do some reading on the subject. The chambers on the Glocks are HUGE also. The combo of non-supported chambers and a huge chamber has lead to many KaBooms in the Glocks. One of my best friends was Pres of PMC ammo, they replaced glocks that had blown up with their ammo on a regular basis. Glock knows that they have a problem, they just are not admitting it. If you are shooting a Glock and are reloading for it, you really need to keep track of the number of times that you have reloaded each piece of brass. If you look at a piece of brass that has been shot in a Glock, you will see a huge bulge. This "bulging" will eventually weaken the brass and casue failure in the brass and at 32,000 PSI, things get real interesting.

The fundamental weakness of the Glock lies in Whether or not you reload for the gun. The thing that makes the Glocks so dependable is what makes them prone to blow up with hot reloads in weakened brass shot from a gun with a huge chamber that leaves some of the case unsuported. If you shoot new ammo, there is not much of an issue with a Glock unless the ammo manufacturer has had quality control issues with their ammo which allowed some very hot ammo to get out, like PMC had.

Due to the Hex rifling in the Glock, lead bullets are not a good option due to the fact that lead fouling can build up caausing extremely high pressures.

Several companies make replacement barrels for the Glocks with conventional rifling (that will allow the use of lead bullets) and have tighter chambers to limit KaBooms.

Simply wonderful things can be done with the Glock triggers which many folks that favor the 1911 really hate. The triggers on my Glocks are to die for and at a very cheap price to convert.

The M & P has a much better chamber and is condusive to shooting hotter rounds, and rounds that have been reloaded to Maximum pressures in the 40 & 45 caliber. The M & P also has conventional rifling that allow the use of lead bullets. The M & P has a trigger replacement parts that cuts the pull down to 3 lbs easily. My brother has a flock of M & P's in all configurations and calibers, they are very accurate pistols. I am not saying that they are more accurate than Glock or the XD.

I have not owned an XD, but have shot several. They like "out of the box" guns need a trigger job for any type of target work or IDPA competition. Women that shoot IDPA seem to have a lot of trouble with the stock XD trigger.

Having said this, the many 1911's that we own, of any make, will shoot much more accurately than any of these Glocks, M & P, and XD, but then again, you don't have a double action trigger nor high capacity with the exception of the Double stack High cap Kimber, which is unreal accurate.

All my family and I shoot local IDPA matches. Glock rule the IDPA matches, but practically none of the guys reload for them and the ones that do reload are the guys that shoot minor power factor with reduced loads in the 40 caliber. Glock 9mm's have supported chambers, you can load them hot, 147's at 1000+ fps.

It is a real eyeopener to pick up 40 caliber brass that has been fired in a Glock and compare the same 40 cal ammo that has been fired in a M & P...the Glock's brass looks it is about to burst compared to the M & P...really gets a guy to thinking.

My two favorite loads for the 40 caliber are the Max loads listed in the Nosler reloading manual with the 135g and the 150g jacketed HP, but I would not dare shoot them in my Glocks due to the issue of weakened brass in combo with the huge non-supported chamber of the 40 Caliber Glock.

My prediction in years to come is that the M & P is going to really make it's self known in terms of reliability and accuracy with more and more Police dept's getting away from the Glocks. The M & P's also come with some replacement grips that the owner can customize the gun to the feel that he likes.

Ka Booms in Glocks are very rare, but RELOADERS need to be aware of a potential weakness that does exist in the 40 & 45 Caliber Glocks with the unsuported chambers. There is no doubt that LE users have never heard of a Ka Boom in a Glock, but they do happen with reloaders due to firing weakened brass.
 
As many have said before, you're looking at three fine pistols. Blinddog said the G21 is a soft shooter and that's certainly the case.

I have owned several Glocks and my experience with them seems to be typical. Many people don't shoot the larger framed Glocks well, they do much better with the smaller version in those calibers. I shoot the G27 and G30 much more accurately than the G20 and G21 so if you want a large .45, I'd strongly recommend you try the G21SF before considering purchasing a G21. Don
 
My department went to issue guns for a few years I had to carry the Glock 21, it works very well, but I just dont like it, feels very clumsy to me. As soon as I could I went to my Kimber pro-carry II 45.
Look up the Tacoma PD test of handguns, many guns many styles and a good evaluation.
Carl
 
I have the glock 19 and love it. the only reason that i got the 9mm is so my wife could handle it. its her home defense tool when i'm out on the road.
 
Which one has been used for 25+ years and went from a joke to the most issued sidearm in America? Has everything you need and nothing you don't. The military mandated the grip safety on the 1911...
 
Thanks for all the replies, it is very much appreciated. I think I have ruled out the Glock and it is nothing more than it does not 'feel' right. I like the M&P and really like that I can change out grips to make the fit even better. The XD seems to fit and point about like the M&P and I like the XD gear that comes with it which really makes the price even more apealing versus the M&P. Someone asked what I would use it for, nothing in particular, I just want a 45 to have one. I already have a PM9 for a cary gun so this one would just ride in the truck or on the boat with me when I am not carrying the PM9. My wife seems to think I would not use this enough and has suggested getting the R15 which I mentioned I really liked. Now I have another decision to make but do not want to shell out that much money for a gun right now given the fact both of them are more of a want than a need. Thanks Again.
 
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