Is this hunting ??????????

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Redfrog.... Yep, that quote is accurate and I stand by its intent. It was used by me in the above tread when Mojavej stated that the validity of someone's point or their experience was related to how many posts they had made. A stupid assertion if ever I heard one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Perhaps I have spent more time in the bush than sitting on my A$$ in front of the computer screen. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif I guess assertions like this allow the maker to avoid the arguements that I made and just attack me personally for stating my opinion. Something like you were doing in your last tread and the one before where you mis-quote me and then deny that you made the comments that I quoted from you. At least I stand behind my comments, too bad the same can't be said for you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

I think that we are both very much aware of the intent of your questions ... to attack me personally. And of course I know the answers as to how long I have been hunting, my age, bow hunting experience .... etc. I didn't bother to answer them because I see no need to play your little personal attack game. Remember it is a desperate man who is losing the debate that has to turn things nasty and personal. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Peace out and happy hunting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Oilfieldtrash, I'm a Fair Chase hunter...doe's that make me a HSUS? I've always said that hunters need to police themselves. Sadly, some types of 'hunting' ain't cool...and the internet/videos perpetuate this
 
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Oilfieldtrash, I'm a Fair Chase hunter...doe's that make me a HSUS? I've always said that hunters need to police themselves. Sadly, some types of 'hunting' ain't cool...and the internet/videos perpetuate this



I agree but I also think using HSUS to outlaw any type of hunting is a BIG in the wrong direction and then lies about it. This Roger Kaseman is the chairman of thie petition.

ND Fair Chase, What Have You Done?


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http://mainehuntingtoday.com/b.....-you-done/

North Dakota Fair Chase, What Have You Done?
Posted by Tom Remington on April 7, 2008

Some of the arch enemies of hunting and fishing are groups such as the Humane Society of the United States, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and a entire host of other off the wall animal rights groups whose priorities are quite skewed, to be polite about it. To stay abreast of what the whackos are doing, I subscribe to alerts from some of these groups. Also on occasion I visit the sites and see what projects or movements they might be supporting at any given time.

This all takes me back the North Dakota Hunters for Fair Chase group who are trying to put a stop to high-fence hunting in their state. They have drafted a referendum they hope to put on the ballot in November of 2008 and are in the process of collecting some 13,000 legitimate registered North Dakota voter’s signatures. Am I to assume they are having a difficult time in accomplishing that?

On April 4, 2008, President and CEO of the Humane Society of the United States sent out a newsletter seeking help to stop canned hunting in North Dakota.

Dear Friend,

North Dakota voters have the opportunity to stop the trophy shooting of captive animals trapped behind fences — an inhumane and unsportsmanlike practice opposed by hunters and non-hunters alike — but only with your help. These “canned hunting” operations offer wealthy customers the opportunity to kill tame, captive animals for guaranteed trophies. Get involved today in stopping this unethical practice.

Both hunters and non-hunters condemn canned hunting, but it has not yet been outlawed in North Dakota. Be part of the team that puts this critical issue on the November statewide ballot! The campaign must collect 12,844 valid signatures by the end of July, and we need your help.

If you have volunteered to gather signatures already, thank you! If not, please sign up today. Email Karen at rthunsh@srt.com or call 701-839-6210.

Just a little of your time will help give North Dakotans the chance to vote to stop canned hunting this fall.

Sincerely,

Wayne Pacelle
President & CEO
The Humane Society of the United States

Ooops!! This is not good for this elitist group, especially after having made these statements at the Bismark Tribune’s forums on February 26, 2008. Roger Kaseman heads up the North Dakota Hunters for Fair Chase and in this thread, he was spelling out what he referred to as the truth behind his efforts.

Here are the facts:

I am a lifelong hunter. I have been hunting for 47 years.

I am not, nor is the Fair Chase Hunters organization an anti-hunting group.

I am not, nor are any members of the organization anti-land owner right. A majority of the members are either hunters, or landowners, or both.

We have not and do not intend to seek the endorsement of any anti-hunting group.

Contrary to Show Me’s accusation, we are not in bed with HSUS, nor will we be.

I am sure anti-hunting organizations will offer financial support for the campaign when we qualify the intuitive for the ballot. The committee is unanimous; we will turn down that support.

What HSUS places on their web site is beyond my control.

Who HSUS or any other organization endorses is beyond my control and beyond the control of any member of the Fair Chase Committee.

If the NDHFFC will turn down the support of any anti-hunting group, then all of us are anxiously awaiting the public refusal of help from HSUS. Kaseman makes a good point when he says that he has no control over what organizations endorse his group or what they might put on their website but this might go a little bit beyond that.

According to what I have been able to dig up so far and what I found also at the Bismark Tribune’s forums, it appears that someone called the “Karen” listed at the phone number on the HSUS newsletter. According to the poster at the Tribune’s forums, Karen said she was working for Roger Kaseman and had been contacted by him seeking assistance.

From: Ron and Karen (rthunsh@srt.com)
Sent: Sat 4/05/08 3:54 PM
To: dewey curren (dcurren77@hotmail.com)
Cc: Roger Kaseman (lsrkbek@bektel.com)

Dear Mr Curren.

Enjoyed talking to you. As I stated when we talked I am a private North Dakota resident just trying to help get the fair chase initiative up to the voters. The Humane Society is just trying to help ensure that all residents…including non hunters get a chance to express their view on this issue. But it is a program solely of the Fair Chase Committee. Thank you so much for your inquiry on this important issue.

Therefore any donation you wish to give to support the right to vote on this unethical practice should go to:

Roger Kaseman, Fair Chase Committee

8120 17th Avenue S. E.

Linton, North Dakota 58552

701-245-4875

So, Karen is a private North Dakota resident just trying to the initiative up for the residents of North Dakota to vote on. Is it common practice to use HSUS resources for “private” citizens to “help get the fair chase initiative up to the voters”? She further directs Mr. Curren to send his donation to Roger Kaseman. Not HSUS mind you but directly to Roger Kaseman of the North Dakota Hunters for Fair Chase Committee.

Anyone who has an ounce of respect for the hunting and fishing industry and everyone who supports and subscribes to it, would publicly deny any support of any kind from this group or any other like them. Kaseman is correct. He can’t control what HSUS puts on their site but he sure as heck can stand up in a public forum a denounce any kind of support from the likes of these people. Will it happen?

If Kaseman and the rest of the “unanimous” committee who said, “we will turn down that support”, were truthful and have not changed their minds, we can look forward to a public refusal of HSUS’ help. Any short of a complete disassociation from HSUS or any other animal rights groups will certainly tell the voters of North Dakota who is really behind this movement.

This link will take you to more articles on the North Dakota initiative and other fair chase issues.

Tom Remington
 
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Redfrog.... Yep, that quote is accurate and I stand by its intent. It was used by me in the above tread when Mojavej stated that the validity of someone's point or their experience was related to how many posts they had made. A stupid assertion if ever I heard one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Perhaps I have spent more time in the bush than sitting on my A$$ in front of the computer screen. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif I guess assertions like this allow the maker to avoid the arguements that I made and just attack me personally for stating my opinion. Something like you were doing in your last tread and the one before where you mis-quote me and then deny that you made the comments that I quoted from you. At least I stand behind my comments, too bad the same can't be said for you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

I think that we are both very much aware of the intent of your questions ... to attack me personally. And of course I know the answers as to how long I have been hunting, my age, bow hunting experience .... etc. I didn't bother to answer them because I see no need to play your little personal attack game. Remember it is a desperate man who is losing the debate that has to turn things nasty and personal. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Peace out and happy hunting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Thanks, that's what I thought. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Frog Father, either ECH is using statements from the standard ARA Play Book, or you've 86'd him before under a different screen name. His verbiage is very familiar.
 
redfrogavitar-1.gif
 
NASA .... It looks like you have some issues with anyone who doesn't agree with you, but you lack the intelligence to confront their ideas and just attack them. For example, your assertion that the original topic starter was an ARA (false), now you claim that I am (false yet again), and finally that Redfrog 86 me ... which he hasn't. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I can assure you of two things (1) I'm a bonifide hunter through and through. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif (2) Pictures of hounds ripping apart Yotes and your unwaivering support of it, along with some of the other "redneck videos" (for lack of a better term) poted on that u-tube site (such as the hunter picking his nose) will do more harm to predator hunting and more to help the antis than an honest, honourable hunter like my self ever will. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gifIf you guys like you and redfrog condone unprofessional behavior, well then that's a reflection on you that speaks volumes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
I had to look in the mirror at the back of my neck a yep it was red and for the lack of better term maybe you should look a little harder for words. I'am very sensitive. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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NASA .... It looks like you have some issues with anyone who doesn't agree with you, but you lack the intelligence to confront their ideas and just attack them. For example, your assertion that the original topic starter was an ARA (false), now you claim that I am (false yet again), and finally that Redfrog 86 me ... which he hasn't. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I can assure you of two things (1) I'm a bonafide hunter through and through. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif (2) Pictures of hounds ripping apart Yotes and your unwavering support of it, along with some of the other "redneck videos" (for lack of a better term) posted on that u-tube site (such as the hunter picking his nose) will do more harm to predator hunting and more to help the antis than an honest, honourable hunter like my self ever will. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gifIf you guys like you and redfrog condone unprofessional behavior, well then that's a reflection on you that speaks volumes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



I was trying to stay out of this particular forum, as pertaining to this discussion ( I started a topic in the clubhouse hoping to move this outta here, it is called "What is happening here" ), but for a new member of this, or any other forum to come in and insult it's long time members is beyond reproach. NASA is fighting a fight to stop the ban of prairie dog hunting in Colorado, (check the other forums)Red Frog is the administration of a site that allows you to come here and participate, and even spout off against fellow hunters, do you realise that your posts could be deleted ? Do you realise that your freedom of speech here, is not protected under the constitution, I think the administrators are doing you, and all those who would set back hunting a great disservice by allowing you to embarrass yourselves.

This is a hunting site. Go to the this is what " I think hunting is " site, and descend against the type you don't like ! Having trouble finding it ? It does not exist, and if it did it would be linked with Zumbos " Why I don't like AR rifles ". I hear they have a " why I don't like Broccoli " section too.
Sit in the wings,and watch it disappear, there is an old saying " If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. " I have not seen one post in this thread from the I don't agree guys who are part of the solution.
Hey NASA when it happens to them, ignore the E_MAILS, they got it all figured out.
 
I'm not saying anyone should be kicked off the site, I'm saying read the other thread and take notice of what damage you are doing to your own sport, by supporting the "I don't Like that" side. It is fine with me if you chose to hunt any LEGAL way you see fit. I just don't want to see your name in the PETA forum saying " Look people this guy is a hunter and he thinks it's wrong " Do you think they can't quote and paste, like we do ?
Like I said before, I don't think this should be under predator hunting, we should move this to the clubhouse, and we should be very careful how we choose our words.
If you don't believe me then look at the original intent of the post, IS THIS HURTING US. I'm not saying the poster was a PITA man. I'm saying that If you think that video hurts hunting, read this thread. Now take the video with hunters comments from this site, stirr, "NEW LAW BANS COYOTE HUNTING" chose method, choose tactic, you say it's bad, they say it's worse, liberals get hold of it and all of it's gone. Think, Think, Think.
 
Like Kurt I have avoided this thread. I avoided it do to the "stupid" factor which has already been covered in so many of the post. But on this issue I believe the thread should have been deleted day one. No thread, no hard feelings, no stupid comments, etc. There would be no need for talk of removing people from the site. If you wish to sign up against a certain type of hunting, fine. There is plenty of site that will be glad to hear you. A hunting site is not the place for such topics. If we were talking about poaching it would be different but we are talking about legal hunting. Yo uwant something outlawed think about this, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME ANY FORM OF US/STATE/LOCAL GOVERNMENT PASSED A GOOD LAW?

I applaud Redfrog for his restraint and also condeem him for it. Most sites that I visit would have canned this topic within seconds. IMHO, it would be the right thing too do. You have plenty of other places to post anti-hunting opinions, you don't need PM.

CB

BTW Kurt, I read your other post and do not fear. This must be a pre-teen phase of the site and only has happened lately. It will return to the great site that Redfrog has provided us and we all enjoy. Think we must have some bored people with hunting (for most of us) over with until fall. Welcome back and I hope you have everything worked out at home.
 
Kurt you are right!! Every state is facing legislation to end one type of hunting or another, why give peta and HSUS more fuel to throw out to the public. This thread should be locked and the bickering ended!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I have read this thread and was determined to stay out of it, I have thought of what has been said, from judging a man’s experience or validity of his points based on the number of posts submitted to the name calling. I do not know anyone here personally, and because of this I will not make a personal remark against someone or something that has been written here. That being said, I am an outdoors man, a hunter, a trapper and a conservationist and firmly believe it is my right to pursue these past times as an American. As long as what you hunt and how you hunt is legal, there should be no argument, if you disagree, that is your opinion, do not participate in that form of hunting. Is there a solution to this issue of the video, doubtful in the age of instant communication it is out there for all to see. There will always be hunters and trappers and I hate to even refer to them as such, that are less then ethical and will put things out for the world to see for what ever reason and once again put a black eye on all those who cherish our outdoors. Years ago I was told that fifteen percent of Americans hunt and fifteen percent are anti hunters, that left seventy percent undecided, and that their vote or decisions will be based on the actions of the other two groups. I think that if anything is to be learned from this, it is that perception is reality, and the perception taken away from the video by the uninformed non hunters is not good for all hunters as a whole, again how you hunt is not the issue to me. If it is in the least bit controversial, maybe keeping it off of Youtube might be a start, years ago we stopped driving around with dead deer on our hoods for a reason.

From the Sagavanirktok river in Alaska
John
 
To all,
Ya know, you can click of the poster of the videos name and send him a message. Maybe sharing opinions with him would be more productive than what is going on here?
 
"If you guys like you and redfrog condone unprofessional behavior, well then that's a reflection on you that speaks volumes. "

ECH, I'm really getting tired of your attempts to slur me by attributing statements to me that I haven't made.

If you don't feel you can qualify your opinions on the topic at hand with facts or experience, that's fine, then just spout off. But do not continue to put words into my mouth.
Believe me, I have no problem saying what I think.

BTW I've mined a couple of snot nuggets myself over the years. Does that make me a bad person? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Chris Brice, Your statement"I applaud Redfrog for his restraint and also condeem him for it" means I'm doing my job. Thanks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
There is no way as a moderator or admin to please everyone. If we had shut this thread down in the beginning, my email would be plugged with members screaming that their right to an opinion was denied. Others would be thanking me. If I let it run, some are saying we are doing a disservice to the hunting community, and the ones that were "denied" their right to express their opinion are still complaining, because theirs is the one and only true opinion.

I'll try once more /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think these topics need to be discussed to at least keep anyone interested in the loop as to what is going on out there. The video on it's own, viewed emotionally by a non hunter, can be damaging to us, no doubt about it.

When it is viewed by a hunter who is not very experienced in hunting in general and sight hounds in particular, it could be at least as damaging, and maybe moreso when they offer their opinon based on emotion instead of facts or experience.

When these "hot" subjects are brought up, it could be an opportunity to educate, other hunters and the general public who drop in from, time to time. For that to happen, opions on the subject need to be presented with some common sense, without the name calling, and innuendo, and arrogance from both sides of the issue.

State your point of view in a rational manner, ask reasonable questions and we may all be able to learn something. There is no need to exaggerate or embellish if your point is valid.

As far as the ARA types getting upset, they will always hate us and work their agenda. Give them hound hunting, trust me they will want archery, or rimfire or semi auto or pick the "flavor of the week". they won't stop till they want it all.

So ask questions or debate soemthing, but don't give up your brother to prove your point. Use facts. logic and experience.
 
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To all,
Ya know, you can click of the poster of the videos name and send him a message. Maybe sharing opinions with him would be more productive than what is going on here?


I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, he did not send a private message to all of us stating his distance, it was submitted here for all to see. the aftermath is what has me worried, hunters condemning hunters is NEVER a good thing, and I'm not talking poachers, or anyone else who would engage in an illegal undertaking.
I have not, in any of the posts I have made on this subject disclosed my method of hunting, If I told you I use a rock, and sneak up on them, method, do I get to claim high ground ?
The high ground in this matter, or any other that concerns hunting, is that YOU support it, in every LEAGAL form.
I'LL bet we could start a whole nother forum on LONG BOW, RECURVE BOW, COMPOUND BOW, CROSS BOW been there done that ! Same thing ! Hunt the way you hunt, I'll support it, as Long as it's legal.
 
I just didn't want to be left out of this thread.

So, here's my opinion.

I'm right and the rest of you are wrong. Simple?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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