243/223 wssm encore barrels

Swany383

New member
I am thinking about building up my first encore rifle, I was woundering where a good place to find a 243 wssm or a 223 wssm barrel for it and what would be a good price?
Also does any of you guys have one of these setups, and if so how do you like it?
 
The 223/243 WSSM have to much " back thrust" for the recoil shield to handle. While some custom barrel makers will build the calibers you want the T/C custom shop will not after their experimentation with the WSSM.

Hoggy
 
I have never heard of this "back thrust" issue ,I would think if the encore can safley handle the big belted magnum rounds like the 7mm and 300 win mags, a wssm would be a walk in the park? or am I missing something?
 
TC says that it is a pressure issue. WSSMs, Ultra Mags and the like are so overbore that they operate at much higher pressure than even belted mags. This is what a TC technician told me at least. There are people out there that will build you anything you want, suppose they would light a stick of dynamite if you wanted to hold it too.
 
Swany

I have a 243wssm mod 70 coyote with a 24" barrel and a Encore Pro Hunter in 243 win, with the Pro Hunter 28" barrel you can get as much velocity from the standard 243 as the wssm if not more with some loads plus better brass and the Encore is actually shorter overall. Don't get me wrong I really like the 243wssm in the coyote it shoots very well and I haven't had any problems with the gun or reloading for it but I would not get another wssm chambered firearm.
 
Ok well I guess all the votes are in for the most part, I have had read all 3 negitve "vote's" for a 223/243 wssm, perhaps I should re-think... "my aproch".... well here goes....I could go with the everybody that wished they had a 220 swift approch but already ownes a 22-250? or better yet I should go with the 204 that wished they bought into the 22-250 or 220 swift rought,,, such a delema ,,,,no wait that has been done..I am sure more than a few times.

Wait a minute I have a bunch of 300win mag brass collectind dust.... how about this....I have a really, really, really, good idea.... how about a "real" wild cat!!!! Neck the 300 brass down to accept a .17 or a .243/6mm? I mean who care's if the brarel only lasts 1000 or so rounds, I bet it would be really,really fast right? Plus lets not forget how cool that round would look!
 
The more I think about this one the more I think I am on to something, every one has heard of the 300 utra mag, or the 7mm STW, well say this SAY hello to my little friend the (20WLM), the (22WLM) and the all new (6WLM), After all, In a 12lb gun recoil should not be all that bad, think about this Fact--> (E = 1/2mass x Vel)... 50grn at 5000+fps =
"Hold on!!!"," I can't see anything though this PINK FOG thats clouding the spotting scope!"
 
I talked to T-C a couple years ago as I was thinking about the same project. I was told that due to the diameter of the WSSM's there was not enough steel left for the chamber walls to hold up either way though the issue was stength and pressure. Personally I would not consider that project now. I instead built an AR with a 24" barrel in 243WSSM it is doing every thing I wanted the T-C to do and I have the option of second and third shots if needed, (not that I have needed more than one so far) and after all wa said and done the two rifles were about the same cost. But the extra mags put me up a bit over what the Encore cost /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif 49 Bucks each But if i ever need them extra shots i got eight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
O.K. I don't mean to beat a dead horse but here goes, I have done some investigating about pressures and 223/243 wssm and have come up with some interesting things, TC offers factory barrels in both the 300 winmag, a 375h&H and of course the 22-250, In regards to the "Back Thrust" issue the 223/243wssm has a head dia of .535" the 300 and the 375 have head head dia of .532 for a grand differance of .003" not much when you look a .003 on your dial indicator.
Well thats answeres that, and for those that would say .003" is alot, it is about .005% larger.

Now onto the next issue of pressures the 223/243wssm has a max pressure of 65,000psi, the 375H&H has a max pressure of 62,000, the 300 has a max pressure of 64,000, using the 300 winmag as a control, that is less than a .02% differance in ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM pressures, so the line about overboard pressures is a hard pill to swallow, In comparison the 22-250 max pressure is also 65,000 psi.
Bottom line is according to what I have read here on this post the encore shouldn't be chambered in a 375H&H or 300 winmag for the same saftey reasons it is not chambered in 223/243.
In todays age of lawers I find it hard to belive that the encore would only have a .02% pressure saftey margin biult into it.
I guess I will have to call the TC and get there input, I might be missing something.
 
The WSSMs are not belted, so the actual case diameter is as big as the head diameter, unlike the belted chambers.
Think about it!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

Jack
 
I understand that they are belted, now onto my next question, how about the 416 rigby it also is a stocked barrel at TC, it has a case dia of .589, I however have not yet found a max pressure for that one but still it has a .034" larger case dia in than the 223/243wssm witch is listed as .555"?
 
I should have been more clear in my statement, In regaurds to "back thust". Force is = pressure x area, think about this, how much difference in area is there between .535 and .532?
 
Quote:
I am not tring to be a meathead I just don't understand why?



I don't either, but I'll give you my experience with it. I have an Encore barrel in .257 Wby that shoots like crap with factory ammo. I thought at first that I had a bad barrell, but after speaking with some experts (Mike Bellm, Match Grade Machine) I was told that T/C stopped producing barrels in Weatherby calibers because pressures were too high and created too much "back thrust."

What is back thrust? I can't give you a definition, but I can tell you what happens when you have too much of it in an Encore. The case head is pushed into the frame when fired and actually causes the frame to stretch and form a gap between the breech and the frame. It may only be a couple thousanths of an inch, but it's enough to cause accuracy problems and permanant frame stretch after many firings.

The case heads on my once fired factory ammo is actually visibly out of square. So I now load my own ammo and am unable to load this cartridge to full potential, I have to decrease speed by about 100fps. This isn't much, which makes me believe that super high-pressure cartridges like Wbys, RUMs, WSSMs and such are just a touch too powerful for this setup. I don't know if officially their SAMMI specs are higher than the 300 Win Mag or the .375 H&H, but I think in the real world it is. somebody besides me could probably explain this better.

So there you go, I can't give you a mathmatical explanation, but this is the way it works for me. Hope this helps. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Let me tell you the way it was explained to me. When you fire a shot from a gun the case immedietley expands and it is the sides of the case that expand and actually grip the side walls of the chamber. This gripping action is what lessens the bolt thrust. With the WSSM cartiridges there is basically two problems. 1- There (at least they say) less effectiveness in the WSSM ability to grip the walls effectivley due to its design and surface area. 2- The cases of the WSSM's is thicker than that of a normal case (because of the design not sure why) and the thickness of the case also lessens the cases ability to expand and grip the side walls as well. So you see it is not so much the head diameter that is the problem but more so the ability for the case to expand and grip the side walls effectivley. Thats how I have heard it a couple different times.
 
I think I went through this before but here goes again the WSSM case is .555 at it's largest diameter over the web of the case the belted mags are.512 at the same location just in front of the belt. The problem with chambering a WSSM in a TC is CHAMBER WALL THICKNESS to cut the Chamber to a diameter the WSSM case will fit takes a lot more metal off the chamber wall enough so that T-C is concerened about saftey since they can only go so large an out side diameter the more that is taken from the inside diameter the less safe it is. and the more chance of catastropic failure. And BTW the expasion pressure don't just go back, it goes in every direction, the materiel a case is made from will not contain the pressure by itself that is why you have to have chamber walls thik enough to hold up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
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