Abortion----Politics

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It's no accident that our founding documents WERE based on Christianity. That is why the Ten Commandments are displayed in courtrooms, as our laws are based on them. If someone chooses not to believe in the Ten Commandments, that's their choice, but if those laws are broken there are still consequences. I don't see anyone here advocating a theocracy.


Is there a statute that requires you to honor your father and mother? Is there a statute that stops you from having any other gods before you? What about keeping the Sabbath? While there are parallels between some of the 10 commandments and our laws they are not the basis for our laws.



If that's true we should probably have them removed. No wait, your friends at the ACLU are already doing that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
I'm warning you STU, you are about to make Dawg and I jump ship from your cabinet. Losing us could cost you much needed votes in the election! You don't want to cause a coup prior to you even taking office. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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"Yes, I do have the right to take his life, because he is threatening the rights of me and my family. If the difference isn't obvious to you, then you sir are the one in the fantasy world. "

Why do you have the right to take another's life?



Ever heard of the right to self defense? DUH.
 
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No, not quite.

Why is stealing illegal? Because it means that you have taken something from someone against their will. You have violated their right to their property. Very simple, very clear. No religion involved nor required.

If you tell me we need to pass a law "because it's against god's will", I'll tell you to stuff it & keep on hiking. We do not have a state religion.

Not everyone subject to our laws is a christian. All people do not believe in the 10 commandments, nor any other part of the bible, yet the laws apply to all equally.

When I said that people will simply shut down on the subject with you, I mean it. I'm one of them. I simply have no interest in drafting legislation based on what someone believes god wants, nor what it says in any particular religious book.

Why? Because then you have the problem over who's scripture to use. Who's interpretation of it to use. Who's belief to use. For example, if it's OK to pass laws based on biblical scripture, then it is perfectly OK to do the same based on the koran.

You want that? I [beeep] sure don't.

Legally & legislatively this is a secular nation. It's people are free to pursue any faith they individually choose, even none at all. Its govt is not free to force religion on people in the form of laws.

I have no problem with religious people in govt. It's entirely appropriate that their faith & values guide their decisions. It is not appropriate that they should force laws on us with no basis other than those beliefs.



Well said.


Yep, there will be much wailing and grinding of teeth.So very sad indeed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
it's slowly resolving itself. people who believe in abortions have them. people who don't don't. over time those who have them are eliminating support for the practice simply due to the fact that they're removing their kids from the future voting population.
 
I would make one exception, and only one, for late term abortion... If Hilary's mother would have one right now!

I know, I know, it'd be a REALLY LATE ONE, but I'd go along just this once.
 
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"Yes, I do have the right to take his life, because he is threatening the rights of me and my family. If the difference isn't obvious to you, then you sir are the one in the fantasy world. "

Why do you have the right to take another's life?



Ever heard of the right to self defense? DUH.



Well then i guess I can argue abortion like this....Ever heard of the right to an abortion?DUH

So then a mother should be able to have an abortion if her life is in jeopardy? Or, Why should she have to support the child of a rapist and go into the poor house. She should be able to protect herself just like you.

The fact of the matter is it is legal and I am happy about it. Not because I would recommend one way or another, but I like being able to decided for myself. So quit whining and pray for my soul if you think it will help.

I'm with Stu in that I don't believe laws should be made based on a religious belief. That is why our forefathers came here. So we could be free from religious oppression.
 
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"Yes, I do have the right to take his life, because he is threatening the rights of me and my family. If the difference isn't obvious to you, then you sir are the one in the fantasy world. "

Why do you have the right to take another's life?



Ever heard of the right to self defense? DUH.



Well then i guess I can argue abortion like this....Ever heard of the right to an abortion?DUH

So then a mother should be able to have an abortion if her life is in jeopardy? Or, Why should she have to support the child of a rapist and go into the poor house. She should be able to protect herself just like you.

The fact of the matter is it is legal and I am happy about it. Not because I would recommend one way or another, but I like being able to decided for myself. So quit whining and pray for my soul if you think it will help.

I'm with Stu in that I don't believe laws should be made based on a religious belief. That is why our forefathers came here. So we could be free from religious oppression.



One major difference. There is no "right" to an abortion. The right to self defense always was there. The Founding Fathers would never support the taking of the life of ANY unborn child and that is not "religious oppression". Whatever you've been smoking isn't legal either. You know a guy named jwp? Ya'll think (or don't think) a lot alike. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
don't take my posts as advocating either keeping it legal or making it illegal. I have not taken a position on this here.

What I have done is point out what I see as problems with the methods being used to argue the anti position.

If you want to convince people, work on getting them to your side regarding when a person is a person. Make the case based on the violation of rights. When doing this you're going to have to be clear, specific and compelling, bc you're up against the other side defending choice based on protecting a womans right. You have an inherent conflict of rights here. The rights of a woman vs the rights of someone who hasn't been born yet.

That's what it really comes down to when you strip away all the extras. Which of those 2 have rights that trump the rights of the other?

When abortion is legal, the womans rights have precedence. If you ban it, the unborns right have precedence.
 
Who says there's no right to an abortion? Oh you must be talking about the Bible again and not reality and what is written law.....my bad. By the way, Who says an unborn child is a person? Not smoking anything, but I think the ink from your bible must have lead in it and absorbed into your skin. Makes you act high and mighty. Also, isn't today the sabbath? Shouldn't ya'll be in church praying for us heathens?
 
"don't take my posts as advocating either keeping it legal or making it illegal. I have not taken a position on this here."

Not trying to make you committ to a side or say you were on one side or the other. I simply agreed with your point about arguing based on a religion and making laws based on what a religious book says.

Sorry if you think I pushed you in the fight.
 
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The Founding Fathers would never support the taking of the life of ANY unborn child and that is not "religious oppression".


The founding fathers were well aware of abortion and at that time it was legal in both the US and England. The laws were changed in the 19th century and the bans have never been very effective.
 
there is no enumerated right to one. pretty much everyone, including supporters, agrees that Roe was bad, REALLY bad law. They basically invented a right where they wanted one & forced this on the nation.

At the time, it was legal in some states, illegal in others. Which seems to me to have been in accordance with the BOR. Unless you can make the law absolutely recognize life & with it rights beginning at conception, then it would appear to not be something belonging at the federal level & should be handled by each state. Instead, we got a decision that forced it on us without going through the crunch of actually settling it for ourselves & that just made the fighting over it even worse.
 
Studies have shown that abortion bans have little impact on the number of abortions preformed.
http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2007/10/12/laws_impact_on_abortion_rate_doubted/
What a ban would accomplish is throw us back into the days of back alley abortions. Many of you are to young to remember these days. Neither fear of the law or fear of death kept desperate young women from getting an abortion. Many of them paid with their lives because a safe alternative was not allowed.
 
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Who says there's no right to an abortion? Oh you must be talking about the Bible again and not reality and what is written law.....my bad. By the way, Who says an unborn child is a person? Not smoking anything, but I think the ink from your bible must have lead in it and absorbed into your skin. Makes you act high and mighty. Also, isn't today the sabbath? Shouldn't ya'll be in church praying for us heathens?


God says so.Not being high and mighty just stating the truth whether you want to hear it or not.Already prayed for you all this morning at church.Have a nice day /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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Studies have shown that abortion bans have little impact on the number of abortions preformed.
http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2007/10/12/laws_impact_on_abortion_rate_doubted/
What a ban would accomplish is throw us back into the days of back alley abortions. Many of you are to young to remember these days. Neither fear of the law or fear of death kept desperate young women from getting an abortion. Many of them paid with their lives because a safe alternative was not allowed.

And many of them thanked the day they could not get it done latter in their lives.
 
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The Founding Fathers would never support the taking of the life of ANY unborn child and that is not "religious oppression".


The founding fathers were well aware of abortion and at that time it was legal in both the US and England. The laws were changed in the 19th century and the bans have never been very effective.


Sorry but thats not true at all.
 
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The Founding Fathers would never support the taking of the life of ANY unborn child and that is not "religious oppression".


The founding fathers were well aware of abortion and at that time it was legal in both the US and England. The laws were changed in the 19th century and the bans have never been very effective.


Sorry but thats not true at all.


Do you have a link that proves me wrong.
 
Rimmy,
The Romans practiced abortion, its been around for a long time.

One time I taught my son a valuable lesson. We were watching one our goats give birth to a kid. As soon as it hit the ground I said, "How about that, a baby goat, what was it five minutes ago when we could not see it?" He said, "A goat." How about five hours ago?" "A goat." "How about 5 weeks ago?" "A goat." "Then how about 5 months ago?" "Its still a goat." "Remember that when somebody tells you that a baby in the womb is not a baby." People can try to justify the killing all they want but the end result will be the wrath of an Almighty God. Poo-poo this as you may, murder is murder no matter what the leftist judges have decided because of the darkness that is in them and those who agree.
 
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